Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Now that our forum has been renamed as non binary from androgyne it occurred to me that it may make sense to either rename or to provide additional member profile options on Susans.   As TG I think that how we define and express ourselves is important.  Not being able to choose an appropriate option is unhelpful.

At this stage, when choosing among the current options, I fluctuate between 2 options -  Androgyne or Queer.   At times I also think about selecting the Questioning option.

At a time when most folk see gender identity as defined at the individual level  I wonder whether it may be time to review/change the available profile options.  For simplicity I wonder whether there is support for a change.

Five options may be:

1.   Simply replacing the Androgyne option with Non-Binary.   This would be the most simple and logical decision as it would better align forum taxonomy with profile options

2.    Add a non binary option

3.    Add a user defined field - each member could choose the gender description (3 words or less) that they identify with

4.     Under a new Non-Binary option add a further field.  This would allow a non binary to add descriptors like queer, fluid, questioning, androgynous, neutrois etc. it may also provide Susans with a better feel for its family, it's dynamics etc

5.      Nil change

I think that options 1 through 4 make sense and would be an improvement

What do you think?

Aisla

If you look at my pic, there is descriptive language, for I am a real mix.   It works well for me.
Having the piece at the bottom does too.  The signature that caries from reply to reply at the bottom of the post.

I grabbed all the components, being an mtf transsexual, Q for gender queer, identifying as non binary and clarifying that further as gender fluid.  The only thing I am not, is and androgyne as I understand it.

An NB selection could be cool.

I'm just glad we had a little space to be descriptive.  That does work for me, but the primary identifier is usually in the little box, and we have A or Q.  NB is two letters and will mess it up.

So I don't know.  Since by nature androgynes don't like boxes, Pica Pica did a nice thread on that once, the more text we have the better.  But some of us like to write volumes and will try to, (me, we know this).

What we have works ok for me, I'd love anonother little line of text on it.

The other questions is the purpose of the descriptions.

Why do we feel that need to self identify... I do... I think its the opportunity to state my true identity for all the world to see, totally unmasked.

Thanks for starting the thread and all you do for the forum Aisla.

I'm completely open to the idea.
Tell me what you would like.

The personal descriptive area has limitations on what is available but forum titles are easily modified.

Let people discuss this

Cindy

Many thanks for this.   SJ, perhaps replacing Androgyne with Non-Binary is the simplest and most effective option, given the opportunity for further definition and description after the signature

Aisla

I would like comment from people who prefer (?) androgyne as well.

I need more discussion so as not to hurt people with changes.

Cindy

Look forward to other points of view. Suspect there may be a similar weight towards non binary ve androgyne as there was when the forum was renamed.  Most common view then was that non binary was more the current and more inclusive descriptor, but the great thing about Susan's is that we each bring very different and equally valuable perspectives

Aisla

Would it be rude of me to present my modified options for Susans? Mainly because I included a Non-Binary option! ;D

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa105%2FAnAngelByMySide%2FGenderSymbols1_zps26cddbf6.png&hash=2e5acced150ef6fbd1e1a52a26bbbf00e25227ff)

Left to Right: Female, Male, Intersex, Androgyne, Non-Binary and Questioning.

I kept Androgyne because I felt there may be Androgynes who prefer the A label over the NB label.

I also did some options for sexuality should it ever become an option - which I thought would be helpful but I understand if people don't want to disclose that.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa105%2FAnAngelByMySide%2FSexualityIcon1_zpsd35b162f.png&hash=19c2f997bd5ac4843c0273f5fd33472b39ff5bdd)

Left to Right: Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual, Pansexual and Asexual

Echelon

Certainly. Never rude to share and always welcome.  Would you include queer, fluid or androgynous ( slightly different spin to androgyne?

Aisla

Quote from: Cindy on July 25, 2014, 07:01:47 PM
I'm completely open to the idea.
Tell me what you would like.
The personal descriptive area has limitations on what is available but forum titles are easily modified.

Thank you, Cindy.
What are the limitations? I'm assuming the number that can be used?
I don't feel a need to use one myself, don't really know what I would choose even given more or different choices.
But the name change does bring this up. I think it does need modification, but I have nothing to add, myself.
This is worth at least a few weeks discussion I would think, even if it slows down.
Not everyone stops by here on a regular basis and that shouldn't keep them out of the discussion.
But given the difficulties and past discussions of this nature, let's keep this from becoming an argument about what the definitions are.
If you have to, let it be descriptive and not a description/definition, just to be fair to others as well as yourselves.
Ativan

Quote from: Aisla on July 25, 2014, 09:53:36 PM
Would you include queer, fluid or androgynous ( slightly different spin to androgyne?

Personally, I wouldn't include it since Non-Binary is an umbrella term for those identities. In my instance, I identify as agender but would rather use Non-Binary since it doesn't feel as restrictive. If I really wanted to, I would pick NB as an option and put agender in my signature :)

However, if others would like to have the option available, it's their choice.

Wouldn't it be neat to have a second category within Non-Binary - with all the possible identities underneath it. You could pick Non-Binary and not classify a specific identity but if you picked a specific identity such as agender, genderqueer, genderfluid, androgyne, androgynous, it could come up in text when you hover over the NB option on the forums instead of the standard "Non-Binary" text.

Did that make sense?  :laugh:   

I've left my gender marker blank and just noted my status in my profile.

I think adding non-binary is a good option. 

I identify as a Transguy.  The way I handled this was to just not choose a Gender and just write "Transguy" in the "personal text".  This is what non-binary defined people could do, if they don't make it a gender option.  My point is that you can get across your identity in your avatar even with the current system in place.

I actually like my A, it was quite a big deal for me to change it from the F I had when I first joined Susans. I don't consider myself Androgyne though I am Androgynous and that's way I want to present. Though labels are stupid in so many ways, they mean something important to some people, and I don't know that removing A from the list would be a good idea. I would personally change my A to V for veronicagirl though, if that were an option ;)

Good posts - good suggestions.  As a result I have changed my profile and feel pretty good about it.

I decided to use the Personal Text line to describe gender as non binary and included MTA as a descriptor.  I chose not to use one of the standard gender options as I didn't feel that they allowed me to express my gender identity and were almost misleading.

Seems to work well unless at the Community level, Susans sees benefit in tracking changing demographics, activity levels etc in which case a compulsory gender field would be helpful in terms of supporting web site analytics.

Aisla

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on July 26, 2014, 12:50:06 AM
I actually like my A, it was quite a big deal for me to change it from the F I had when I first joined Susans. I don't consider myself Androgyne though I am Androgynous and that's way I want to present. Though labels are stupid in so many ways, they mean something important to some people, and I don't know that removing A from the list would be a good idea. I would personally change my A to V for veronicagirl though, if that were an option ;)

I'm beginning to like you Veronica Lynn, we seem to agree on a lot of levels. On the advise of my dear spouse I'll keep the "A" as she says that it aptly describes me, although I know she's not thinking Androgyne.  ;D

I think that it would be good to add Non-binary. I removed my gender marker because I can't fully identify with Q or A (in the way I understand it). I am going MtF way physically but my gender identity is mixed and I guess that non binary is more accurate term for me...

Quote from: Shantel on July 27, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
I'm beginning to like you Veronica Lynn, we seem to agree on a lot of levels. On the advise of my dear spouse I'll keep the "A" as she says that it aptly describes me, although I know she's not thinking Androgyne.  ;D

Hahaahah,

A what?  An a...

SOs have the best terms for describing us sometimes...  :)

Luna Nyan/Shantel

While I think that the term non binary is more contemporary and inclusive than androgyne,  that is only an opinion.  The issue with names is that there are often as many different definitions of the same term or name, as there are folk in the room.  Picking a label, a name or declaring an identity is very personal and very important.  Given this, I am not sure that should "do a Facebook" here, and have multiple classifications and definitions.  The free text works well if the existing choices don't fit, as each person has the opportunity to author their text and therefore to derive or denote meaning as it occurs to them.

Aisla

I certainly don't wish to be negative or restrictive, but I also don't want to keep changing profile names.

Maybe Aisla's suggestion of using free text is the way to go.

But as ever keep talking until a majority decision is arrived at, but remember majority decisions can and will exclude a minority.

Quote from: Aisla on July 28, 2014, 03:02:25 AM
Luna Nyan/Shantel

While I think that the term non binary is more contemporary and inclusive than androgyne,  that is only an opinion.  The issue with names is that there are often as many different definitions of the same term or name, as there are folk in the room.  Picking a label, a name or declaring an identity is very personal and very important.  Given this, I am not sure that should "do a Facebook" here, and have multiple classifications and definitions.  The free text works well if the existing choices don't fit, as each person has the opportunity to author their text and therefore to derive or denote meaning as it occurs to them.

Aisla

This really makes the most sense!

I currently use the "A" option.  I am not at all sure about identity, so that seems the best current fit or at least I like it better than "?"  The one I don't like is "Q" - back in my day that was a nasty pejoritive term.  I know times have changed and the use of the word is different, but I am an old stick in the mud and I can't personally go there.  That is saying nothing about anyone who uses the "Q" as it has become an identity to be proud of.

All that said I can go with things the way they are, or with adding a Non-Binary category.  If "NB" were an option I would probably go with it.  However, deep down inside of me there is a part that would rather switch to "F" - if more of me were comfortable with that I would probably go there.


Erin

Ok so I dropped the "A" and substituted "Non-Binary Trans-Drogynous" Non-Binary being significant of my internal hardwiring as it is today and Trans-Drogynous because I transitioned initially toward a more feminized physique and yet still present outwardly androgynously on a daily basis as it suits me being neither fully masculine or fully feminine. This has been a good exercise for me as it seems the whole business of transition and coming to terms with one's self identity is an ongoing transitional thing in and of itself.

To be honest, the gender marker doesn't worry me at all.  It may be an issue to others.  I just mark down the appropriate descriptor for myself in the avatar profile box.  The only reason it might be helpful is if stats are being taken, but that hasn't been the case.

My opinion...

Leave it all as is.  The free text is good, and Androgyn needs to stay androgyne it is a big mistake to make a change there, Q needs to remain as there are definite Q's invested in that too, and the rest can be self defined.

I see Androgyn as a specific form of trans with its own character and special presentation.  Non binary, which has me in it, is inclusive, and picks us all up.  But I am mtf and in this forum and I belong here, so does all of us, but the Androgyns seem to me to be special in that the body dysphoria does not rule them as it does me.  I could be stupid on this, but investment in our gender identity, most of which took years to figure out, especially us in our complexity, this investment is huge and should not be prodded, even with the most positive of intents.

I think there is enough room to self identity out of the norm here.  A couple more characters could be nice, another text line, but it isnt necessary.

So, in a vote, and I am not neg on the topic either.... no change.

Also as to sexual preferences, I would prefer not knowing anyone's here.  It can muddy  the water.  Fear of an attraction for instance, not wanting to engage emotionally if you think the other will emotionally get a mixed message.... it makes it complicated, unless in the body of a post relevent to a topic.  With other trans, it is a non issue for me, I do not relate in areas of that type of attraction, its like we are the same gender no matter what the fluid position is, and I relate that way.

Just thoughts here.  But I am very strong on not changing the A and Q existing identifyers.  Elimination of one  becomes alienation of the same, a huge error.  Adding more.... I used to leave it blank and just use the text for the other id's, the four letter ones that I still cannot grasp and thats ok for this noopnbmtf.  LOL.

Just something funny - how  the heck can you be hetero or homosexual or lesbian when your body is both male and female physically anyway?

S.J. Satinjoy

LOL

Love to all here.  Nobody leaves, lets get the andros more active starting threads, the Q's and nbmtf's are overwhelming the board.  Meaning just me of course.  I don't know how to start a pure andro thread:(

I talk too much.  I probably am offending everyone now.

Blessings anyway.

Change it to NB or N so when posting in other sections, people will know, just as when someone who uses the F or M lets others know of their gender.
To be more specific, then use put up more specific whatever, to let others have an idea, just as F or M do...
Seems pretty straight forward, those whose preference as a non binary and still wish to use the F or M, hey! bonus!...
Ativan