Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am wondering how much HRT will change the appearance of my upper body build (not focusing on breast development).  I wear XL T shirts, I am in pretty good shape, 5'11" 190 lbs.  I could probably trim down to about 175 lbs by loosing some "tummy" (I am German, I love my German beer :-)  ), and I think I have sort of broad shoulders.  How much improvement can I expect to see (if I drop 15 or so pounds before beginning HRT) by taking HRT?  I should add I am 35.  Will I pass?  Also, what diet should I plan for the best success of HRT?

Ok let me give this a try.

Hrt works differently in every person.

Types and dosages that your Doctor prescribes will be for your test they perform.

Normal possible changes are a rounder face, breast development, fat redistribution, and loss of sex drive.

Then all the side effects of each drug you take could be a major health risk.

Talk with our doctor and understand this is a huge step.

Thank you for the clarification on individual reactions to HRT.  I was asking the question to find out what the common reactions are (several of which you mentioned) to things such as muscles in the upper body.  What is underlying my question is a concern that my bone structure will encumber my attempt to pass.  I am happy to be an "ugly duckling", I am concerned about being a big ugly ducking.  Gosh, this is a hard decision in so many ways.  As I already mentioned, I am 35, and I feel like the opportunities to pass well are fleeting away quickly.  I wish I would have known at the age of 16 what I know now...

Jill

ymmv but even quite large MAAB have made successful transitions.  Muscle will decrease and fat will be deposited in more female patterns.  This means that muscle definition will soften and you will appear more feminine.  Losing weight pre hrt is generally recommended as it is usually easier than losing weight post HRT.

Presentation (clothing, grooming, makeup etc) will all make a difference.  There are many tall, athletic cis women and you are by no means large.  I have known MAAB who have successfully transitioned who started at well over 6 feet and weighed more than 240 lbs.

Suspect that there will be folk along shortly to share their success.

Safe travels

Aisla

One thing you might do is get an idea of what your underlying frame is -- S, M, L.  There are various ways to calculate this, usually wrist circumference. From there you can estimate how much bulk you may really be carrying.  As HRT includes androgen suppression and you will lose a lot of muscle mass and that includes your chest. I went from something like 45 to a 35 inch chest. Some was fat, a lot was muscle.  It's very individual, but most people do lose a lot of chest. I was extremely surprised with my HRT outcome in that respect as I thought my frame was larger and that my upper body would never get smaller.  I still have a larger upper body (and ribcage) than I want, but it's still within the natal female universe.


Long ago I posted on this same question, including diet:   https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,117865.msg925051.html#msg925051

That was over two years ago, and my chest (and general shape) has changed a bit further, but I also started a strength training program that has helped reshape my upper body a bit. I'm told it can change further post SRS, but IDK if I have already reached my limit.

That was extremely helpful!!  Thank you!!  I was beginning to wonder if I was going to get any more feedback.  If you have time, can you offer more advice on "eat this, not that"? 

It was a combination of mainly a LOT of cardio (meaning DAILY) with a committed diet. I don't say strict because I was eating wisely, not starving myself. It is about retraining and habits, and that "takes" in about a month and will stick long term if you let it.  As with any weight loss, when you cheat you only cheat yourself. I was motivated to stick to it because I wanted to transition quickly, and I knew that I wanted a new body and to make the best of it that I could.  What I will describe is what I did for me, but everyone is different.

With my body changing as much as it was, and rebuilding, I felt it was unwise to distort my diet nutritionally one way or another, but I did cut back calories and lowered any fat intake (though it's unwise to eliminate it). I concentrated on making the most of what I allowed myself. Some of that is just eating properly, meaning dropping empty calories (or comparatively empty) such as sweets, baked goods, and simple carbs, and switching to "packed" calories. Pasta went out as did most breads, rices, pizza, fries, potatoes and all. No chips of any sort (carbs, fats, sugars, and salt).  I cut out all added sugars (even in tea), and read all the label of anything I did buy that was packaged. Not 100%, as I did go out or did take away. I'd have a part of a pizza once in a while for example. I could eat a little cake or whatever once in a while.  You can't feel deprived, or you will resent the diet.  I just removed these from my house and my daily diet, and eventually I forgot about them. I went for lean proteins, like chicken, very lean red meat once in a while, a lot of eggs or egg whites (which ended up as omlettes and types of meatless and low cheese frittatas). I would have fish once in a while, grilled salmon, but I am not a big fish fan.  I cut back on full cheeses (not 100% eliminated, but in small amounts). I also used a lot of plain non or low fat greek yoghurt, which is high in protein and also calcium. I used olive oil in small quantities.  Dark leafy veggies (tons of spinach), peppers, onions, garlic, tomatoes. No beer (but that wasn't hard as I don't really drink it, and I grew up around good beer). I did drink wine, but generally only on weekends (I come from a wine drinking family, and it was a cultural fixture), and my rule was one bottle in the course of a week.

I decided not to skip any meals, just to control what I ate and try to make it appealing and filling. Breakfast was along the lines of: one serving of oatmeal (and actually it was steel cut or whole oats 1/4 to a cup of water. That's a little gruelish for most, but it was a calorie count and oatmeal is very filling as is oat bran) with about the two eggs worth of egg whites in a omelet (which would be full of veggies, such as onions, peppers, spinach etc). Sometimes it was just a bowl of GoLean. I happen to like berries, so it was always a bowl of blueberries or strawberries or a mix. I generally did wraps at lunch using a whole grain wrap no more than 80 cals, with turkey, chicken, lean ham, or egg whites (I added yogurt and oat bran sometimes), then seasoned various ways, with tomato, onion, and spinach leaf. Sometimes I did a grilled chicken salad. Dinner was lean meats or omelets, with veggies. If I needed a snack, it might be a handful of almonds or a slice of turkey and ham, or a slice of herbed chicken etc. I allowed myself a small amount or dark chocolate, 60% or so. I ended up using dark choc chips, and just a few. I had to be careful because, well, it was chocolate.

Some of what I did was also to make sure I ate good food, in modest portions. I have always cooked, so I knew how to make something I would want to eat. That's important, because if you don't enjoy the food you allow yourself during a diet you won't keep to it.  Still, I kept it very simple, lots of chicken (but prepared a dozen easy ways using spices, not pastas and creams sauces etc.)  I found it was a good time to get creative in the kitchen -- besides, it a great skill to have, it's cheaper than eating out and it impresses the guys...

Another aspect was portion control/serving. Know what you are really eating and what's in it. The first time you make something, measure and calculate what a portion or serving size is, don't guess. You really only have to do it once. I have an eye for measurements after so many years cooking, but I never cut that corner as it helped keep tabs on my calorie intake.

Also: not all calories are equal in the sense of where they come from. Your body uses more energy to burn proteins than carbs for example. I could safely increase lean protein calories if I needed, as they tended to have less effect on my body than carbs do. You can do some research on all that and figure out what works for you.  Much of this is about individual metabolism, and how you can influence it. It takes some item to reprogram it, but you can. Supposedly your body changes metabolism in the course of a seven year cycle anyway, you are just playing with that! That's also true about exercise. Cardio isn't necessarily burning more than strength training, but if you want to cut muscle bulk, don't do much training until your muscles stop shrinking.  You do want to tone, but you can do that isometrically as well.

We should be aware that our metabolism slows on HRT and we have to change our diet or face the fattening consequences. So many of us have redefine our eating regimen and have become so much healthier in what we eat, but it is a balancing act as we need the fat to change our body shape and to develop breasts. I was 147lbs and am now 135lbs and while I looked very slim before HRT the body has changed to look soft and no longer slim despite the weight loss

In regards to upper body muscular changes, let me refer you to the IOC (Olympic) gender rules. Aftr 2 years on HRT and with an GRS you can legally compete as a female. This is because we will lose our male muscle- no if and or buts, however we can develop a  refined muscle tone without the bulk. I can say that I have lost around 12% in my neck, and my chest measurements. My pecs have diminished significantly and the breast fat has gradually replace the muscles that were once there.All this will naturally happen but its a long slow process look at the development time a 12 year old girl has to grow into a female physically. One step at a time it will happen.

Quote from: warlockmaker on July 30, 2014, 10:39:59 PM
...In regards to upper body muscular changes, let me refer you to the IOC (Olympic) gender rules. Aftr 2 years on HRT and with an GRS you can legally compete as a female. This is because we will lose our male muscle- no if and or buts, however we can develop a  refined muscle tone without the bulk. I can say that I have lost around 12% in my neck, and my chest measurements. My pecs have diminished significantly and the breast fat has gradually replace the muscles that were once there.All this will naturally happen but its a long slow process look at the development time a 12 year old girl has to grow into a female physically. One step at a time it will happen.

I read somewhere to expect 35-40% loss of muscle mass. I'm not sure that's true, but I know I lost a lot as well.

Yay!!   Lots of good info and good things to look forward to.  :-). Thank you for taking the time to write. 

Great info thanks for the good question was wanting to know those details myself