Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I suspended electrolysis for a couple months during my recovery from SRS.

During that time, I was disappointed that areas that my electrologist had cleared now almost had a full beard.

When I took a look at the area, I saw that almost all the hairs there were BLACK HAIRS. The black hairs there had all been gone since I'd finished laser last winter and only the white hairs had remained (I'm 53).

This meant that the regrowth was not from hairs that the electrologist cleared.

They were hairs that the laser had removed and that are now returning.

I remember when I initially tried to figure out whether it was worthwhile to do laser before electrolysis. I couldn't get good info about whether laser was truly permanent. Electrologists would have you believe it's scarcely better than shaving. The government doesn't allow laser places to claim it's permanent, but the laser places would all say "we haven't had a problem." The deciding vote came from this board, where most people seemed to think that laser would last.

Well, I'm here to say it doesn't.

.......say what?!?!...i wonder if they weren't hairs that were in the dormant phase? Im sorry as i can feel your pain of seeing those black hairs, im sorry truly. Well you could laser them to thin to survive then get back to electro?
Congrats on your surgery, i trust all went well.
Stevie

  Personally speaking I wasn't all that concerned if it wasn't entirely permanent.  The reduction was what gave me the comfort to go part-time and it carried me through the time until I could start HRT and electrolysis.  It also meant I didn't have to shave my entire body every day so I didn't feel all scratchy and itchy.  I have no good way to know how permanent it will prove to be as there are too many variables, but it saved me from the horrible beard re-growth irritation I'd suffered with since puberty.  It was quite literally driving me mad.  Further, I'd gotten wildly good deals on the cost so I just went ahead anyway.

  It is actually possible under certain conditions for laser to actually stimulate hair growth.  Thankfully I've experienced none of this.  Overall it as been a worthwhile experience and truly life-changing.

Hmm.. Very interesting topic.

When I researched hair removal at home methods, I noticed that the IPL devices don't actually remove the hair, they send it to sleep... So I wondered, are the devices they use at salons stronger? or what? Either way, my fears and worries have been confirmed by You, Suzi...

I'm planning to have my pubic hair removed on health care, how will they do it down there? Electrolysis seems extremely painful to be done on your private parts, but IPL doesn't provide permanent results.

Did anyone have positive experience with IPL i.e. few years of no re-growth?

thanks

  My electrologist says that, based on her extensive experience, electrolysis on at least the "bikini line" seems to be consistently less painful than beard removal.  She didn't mention about directly on the genitals.

Hi Suzi

This is perplexing indeed.  I had been lead to believe that if you zap pigmented hair enough times with laser they eventually do give up for good.  But I have a similar experience to you where, after 6 sessions, I seem to have as much hair as before. 

I'm really not sure whether it's worth continuing, or to bite the bullet and just do electrolysis. 

Julia

I'll go for electrolysis for my face then, if possible, wondering about my pubic hair now though...

Thanks for your input girls, it's helpful

Quote from: crowcrow223 on August 09, 2014, 10:57:48 AM
Hmm.. Very interesting topic.

When I researched hair removal at home methods, I noticed that the IPL devices don't actually remove the hair, they send it to sleep... So I wondered, are the devices they use at salons stronger? or what? Either way, my fears and worries have been confirmed by You, Suzi...

I'm planning to have my pubic hair removed on health care, how will they do it down there? Electrolysis seems extremely painful to be done on your private parts, but IPL doesn't provide permanent results.

Did anyone have positive experience with IPL i.e. few years of no re-growth?

thanks

Fwiw
I did clean up on botom with laser two treatments and it never came back and its been over a year. The laser my woman uses is for hair removal and the dark course hair loves laser.

I did laser to get the dark ones and electro for white. It thins it out so less trauma during electro. Id say even if you want to do electro thin it out. Unless you are like me and get full clearings it will take a while as in a year. Just sayin

Perhaps the time you had to go off HRT before surgery had an impact on this.

After six sessions of laser it was like the laser fertilized the black hair - it was still as thick as ever. But something happened after the next 2-3 sessions - most of the black hair gave up.  The laser clinic bumped the strength up a notch on those sessions and that seemed to make all the difference. I still have a couple of sessions left and I hope all of the black hairs are gone after that. Whether they will eventually come back is anyone's guess.

If you go for real laser (not the home devises or IPL) and assuming the operator knows what he/she is going (uses high enough intensity) and the device uses the correct wavelength laser it is permanent. For the right wavelengths a human hair will act like a fiber optic tube and direct most of the energy (photons) down to the hair root. If the intensity is sufficient this will "boil" the root which will permanently kill any cells. Also keep in mind that this will only work hairs that are in the growing cycle since this is the only time the hairs are connected to the root.

Even with all the right equipment unfortunately many laser operators are not comfortable enough to use a high enough setting, they prefer the customer to experience less pain and the less they clear the more visits and more money for them. Keep in mind that multiple passes on a lower settings don't do the same as one pass on a higher setting, you have to heat the root enough to kill all the follicle producing cells so that they can't regenerate.

Very good points... Thanks girls

Wow, that sucks. The FDA does allow some laser places to claim it's permanent hair *reduction,* meaning not all hair follicles will be killed, but those which are will stay dead. I had it done over five years ago now and so far the only regrowth is the same dozen or so stubborn survivors...

Howver, the other thing to bear in mind is that sometimes the regrowth cycle can be as long as a year, and follicles which were dormant at the time will not be killed.  (I believe the same is true of electro.) So it may be that you're seeing growth from hairs that are now out of dormancy, since it's been less than a year. This  is why my laser place offered free touch-ups for up to a year after the first session.

You could even call the laser place and see if you can get a free touch-up, since it sounds like they screwed up either on the initial treatment or on the lack of follow-up.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 09, 2014, 06:37:49 PM
You could even call the laser place and see if you can get a free touch-up, since it sounds like they screwed up either on the initial treatment or on the lack of follow-up.

Alas, I used up all four of my free follow-ups because the initial visits didn't clear everything. They'll allow additional sessions at cost, which is about US$50, but I'm going to let the electrogist take care of whatever's there.

yet another reason to use a real Dermatologist as opposed to a clinic, salon, or spa.

Yeah, I don't blame you. With results like that, I wouldn't want to give them any more of my money either.

I been lucky or just went to a good clinic but I had my face done in 03/04 and some touch up off and on by electrolysis. 12 it gave up to start growing back again. I was told around 7 years it would mostly stay away.

Only proven hair removal is electrolysis.

But I recommend laser for the fast clearing then electrolysis later on the re growth.

I had the same thing, with my lasered hair coming back.

However! It went away once I went back on E - I'm guessing it'll do the same for you, and that the colored hairs are just the ones that estrogen actually affected on its own.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 09, 2014, 06:37:49 PM
Wow, that sucks. The FDA does allow some laser places to claim it's permanent hair *reduction,* meaning not all hair follicles will be killed, but those which are will stay dead. I had it done over five years ago now and so far the only regrowth is the same dozen or so stubborn survivors...

Howver, the other thing to bear in mind is that sometimes the regrowth cycle can be as long as a year, and follicles which were dormant at the time will not be killed.  (I believe the same is true of electro.) So it may be that you're seeing growth from hairs that are now out of dormancy, since it's been less than a year. This  is why my laser place offered free touch-ups for up to a year after the first session.

You could even call the laser place and see if you can get a free touch-up, since it sounds like they screwed up either on the initial treatment or on the lack of follow-up.

I was going to say the same.....and yes even electro is not permanent if hairs were dormant. You may think you have the whole upper lip cleared, but there may be 100's of hairs in the same area that are dormant. Also even some hairs killed by electro may not be fully killed.

As far as IPL goes.....don't waste your money!! Professional lasers such as the alexandrite and the jag are the most successful.....but even they are not permanent!

I think an important thing to mention is what type of laser is being used as there are so many types some being better then others.  The place i go to used Candela GentleLASE and it seems to be doing a great job for me. I've had 3 sessions so far that are spaced apart every 4 weeks  and I haven't really noticed any regrowth just a few here and there.

Laser results vary widely, hence their inability to get the FDA label as permanent hair removal. Laser does do permanent hair removal for some people. Will it do it for a specific person? There's no way to know except to try and see.

Given the cost of laser, the fact that at my age I have lots of grey facial hair too, my decision was easy - electrolysis all the way.

Considering that I have no experience on what the machines between IPL and Laser, I was lead to believe that I was paying for LHR. But now I'm pretty sure that I'm paying for IPL, especially since last time they talked about having to replace the bulb.  I'll talk to them about it since they had me thinking that I was getting laser, but I think that, at this point it's too little too late. I might as well just finish the sessions and cross my fingers that it does the trick in killing a bunch of a the dark hairs. I'd already planned on going to do Electrolysis to take care of my white/grey hairs (which is about 15% of my facial hair) and whatever Laser didn't touch, it just means that I'm going to have more sessions with them. :/

I think we are dealing with several issues here.

The first is that laser can give the illusion of permanence if the sessions are close together, but what it's really providing is a temporary hair removal similar to waxing - i.e. they "vanish" and then grow back but we keep lasing them just in time in the regrowth phase and hence it appears permanent.

The second is that it's a balancing act between laser power for eficacy and the pain and potential for burns.  There are no equations here, sadly  :(

The third is whether the esthetic center is truly involved in your hair removal project to work towards the most efficient procedure or combination of procedures.  Remember, even electrolysis isn't permanent if the power is not set high enough.

I have tried laser, thermolysis and galvanic electrolysis.  I have spoken with therapists and patients.  Some have less hair to remove, different discomfort tolerance and a higher proportion of darker hairs.  Every time I beat myself up for not embarking on this in my 20's, I think of those with red hair, and a very hairy chest and back, and count myself very lucky.   Besides I have met some really nice folk and had great conversations. :)

Results were:

Laser (7 full body, including face but not genitals and 7 touch ups) - appeared to thin out darker hairs, and had an immediate improvement,  results were not permanent and facial hair, in particular, appeared to return, albeit finer.  The problem is that I never knew for sure whether these hairs were part of another growth cycle.  No impact on light hairs (blonde, grey or white)

Thermolysis (4 full day 2 operator sessions and 2x1hr follow up).  Achieved a full clearance.  Skin wept and crusted afterwards.  Seemed to work reasonably well but was, in reality, just  the start of the heavy lifting required to remove my hair.  The anaesthetic injections under the skin still give me nightmares.

Galvanic electrolysis. (Tomorrow will take me to approximately 144.5 hrs, typically administered in 3 hour, weekly sessions)  Proved to be the most effective method for me, but it is time consuming and expensive.  Much more uncomfortable than laser,  but not as bad as the injections.  Upper lip, close to the nose and parts of the back were the most uncomfortable.  Am now achieving a full clearance so hope that I am in the final stretch.  Have been warned that 'maintenance' may be required  - it's funny but my tolerance for longer vellus hair is now being tested, so  I may do more than others require.

Safe travels

Aisla

Thanks for posting girls, especially Aisla :)

I am entitled to 8 facial hair removal sessions on my health service, I presume they use electrolysis, as well as donor site hair removal, where I presume they use IPL... How successful is IPL on the "down there" section? Has anyone got any experience? Thanks!

 Hi, I just wanted to share my experience. First of all, excuse me about my english. I'm 47 years old.

I've investigated a lot about laser before I begun any treatment. And I've found that you can have a lot of difference regarding of what laser you use, so: What kind of laser treatments are you having? How many sessions did you have?.

I'm having Soprano XL 3G, I had 10 sessions on all my body so far, when I begun the treatment, I was told to expect some hair re-growth on sessions 3, 4 and may be 5, it is normal, and they told me that for a complete treatment, it would take about 14 sessions to have permanent results. It was true, I had hair re-growth on sessions 3 and 4. With session 6 I begun to see more permanent results. I almost don't have hair on my legs any more, much much lesser in my belly and chest. Very little in my bikini line. I had my 10th session 2 days ago, so, in a week I'll be able to see the difference between sessions 9 and 10. If you are interested I can come back and let you know.

Hope this was helpful, if I can help you in any way don't hesitate to ask me

Best luck to all

Ale