Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've been thinking about this lately. Do you find that many successful transitioners eventually lose interest in the community? That life for them has moved on?

I've notice something in common with those who have undoubtedly been successful at transitioning. You never really hear much from them afterwards. Oh it's not a knock, it's just a feeling that I myself have been sensing within. That eventually even Evelyn might just fade into the woodwork.

If I had all my major tick boxes checked, would I really need support when I'm busy just living? And as you know, 'normal' life is quite busy in of itself.

Thoughts?

Isn't this the goal?  I know it is for me.

I do to. I also have contrasting thoughts.

For one I think the community that helped nurture your transition would welcome a hello every once in awhile.

But then on the other hand, if you're successful in transition, I also feel as if maybe it's better to get out of the way, to start living. After you succeed or are approaching, people will just know. I'd rather exit graciously. I guess what I'm trying to say is "why rub it in?" Perhaps keep tabs from afar and let others who are beginning rise and share in the reigns of the forums own special and successful occasions. And rise they will. The graduating class moves on for a reason and doesn't linger.

Then there's the rock and a hard place, our community needs successful transitioners to be out in the open and active supporting our cause...

it could be the case, very few of the people around 9 months ago when I started are still around 

Yeah steph. Just browsing prev years "fabulous" threads and anyone can see a lot of fab gals have obviously moved on.

Maybe it's best this way?

I don't know I always like to hear the stories from the grown ups

I am not post-op yet but I should be getting my initial surgical assessment shortly so I am well along in the process. I already feel the need for less community support because almost all of my questions have been answered.  My hormone regime is stable, I am fully transitioned and I live my life. What do I need from the community? Very little.

So I am spending sone time helping out those following me, those who do have questions and who need help an guidance but it is a very frustrating process and there are a few idiots the make me go "WTF?". There are also extremely negative people who seem to be able to suck the joy out life and make me wonder why I bother.

So I will move on. Transition is a process with an endpoint. For me that will be in the New Year

It's kind of sad and liberating in a way. Thanks aagat for chiming in and much success to you.

My transition is done.. I've not seen my gender therapist in a year or so - just nothing that I've needed to talk to him about. The odd bits of support I need, I'm able to get from friends. I lurk here and a chat room I help Mod in order to pay a little back for the help and support I got when I first started and if I didn't feel that need, I'd have wandered off in to the life I have.

   As we face the reality of our true selves ,summon the courage to come out and face the world and start growing and maturing as our chosen or preferred gender with our hormones in synch, life evolves into a much different experience.Every day normalcy replaces every day exploration and 1st time adventure (remember the ladies room? ) the been there done that is now the new normal, and everything is now --- well normal !
  You can spend less time here searching for answers and more time with the friends and people you have grown close to while here and hopefully offer some sage advice to a newbie who is in the searching phase. Everyone grows at a different pace ,we are after all --- different.  Pat 

Yes it seems to happen all the time!

I like to think that instead of losing interest, they are just more interested elsewhere and leveraging their new superpowers in life.

Like Stephanie said, it's good to hear from the ones who have gone on to live their lives the way they had wanted. Presumably many of them struggled before and during the transition process and it would be helpful for those doing it tough to hear those stories and how they managed to do it. A support site certainly benefits from those old hands onboard and the insight, inspiration, encouragement and guidance they can provide.

It's pretty standard, I don't know how many post-transition people stay around. The fact is for me the "community" politics don't necessarily align with my interests, that can annoy me. I can try to help when I can, but many peoples issues aren't something I can connect with...and I have my own history of serious problems.

I think a key term in your thread is "need." I'm not sure I ever "needed" help, I put off transition for over a decade, during that time I could have used help. In a way I found some of it right here on Susan's. I was a lurker including for many years.

For me, I don't think it ever will. I feel like I owe it to other's that may need support, encouragement and advice. Maybe owe is not exactly the word I was looking for but all I want to do is help others that are going through the same thing I have been through and still going through. It's a never ending process for me. Others here have helped me and I owe them my eternal gratitude for sure. So paying it forward is sort of the attitude I take.

My transition isn't anywhere close to being complete, but it's really been ages since I came to this site for support. Now I hang around to chat with friends, make new ones and try to help others. I'll probably never leave.

Quote from: Pikachu on August 16, 2014, 08:38:48 AM
My transition isn't anywhere close to being complete, but it's really been ages since I came to this site for support. Now I hang around to chat with friends, make new ones and try to help others. I'll probably never leave.

Me either. I hate when people that were here and then disappear and leaves me wondering if they are OK. It would be nice if they would just to say, "Hey, I'm where I need to be so don't worry." And then just a little follow up every now and then. They should know women worry way more about their friends and if they are OK. ;) God, I'm such a girl and way too emotional sometimes. I find myself actually worrying about people I don't even see face to face but just type to. Ok time for a micro meltdown. :'(

Honestly, for me I think *needing* support ended years ago. I hang out here as a way of "paying it forward" after all the support post-transition women gave me when I was just starting out (and because post-op women willing to answer questions are rare for some reason), but I expect that at some point I'll drift away as well. As you say, it's about living your life afterward, eventually.

I try to stay out of the newbie emotional threads, because to be honest what early transition *felt* like has mostly faded into vagueness for me. But a lot of the "does it get better/can I have a happy life/is this physical stuff normal" questions seem like they'd also benefit from hearing from people who've been at it a while.

I have only started so it is a while away before i don't need support from others.  I am not sure about online support, but i do intend to continue contact with my local transgender groups.  Later on i would like to help new transitioners and impart any wisdom i have on the matter.  I feel people were there for me, and i want to return the favour.

Hmmm,  the goal for many is life, stealth, just living authenticity.  So it follows that this venue will fade in importance.  That is, as others have articulated, as it should be.  I will be post op sometime in late winter, the timing will be largely determined my what is necessary at work, but will I wander off? Probably not, I'm still a part of a community that keeps me whole.  It is still important to me that people in the beginnings of growth into their authentic selves have the perspective of time.

The people here who have already walked the path, have helped me both with their thoughts, but also with their simple presence.  I need to know that there is a land over the rainbow.  That I can get there, and that it will be okay.  Experience informs struggle.  Struggle informs life.

I have a great deal of gratitude to you all and a debt as well.  For me to discharge that debt is to do what I can to ensure that whenever anyone reaches out, there is a hand and a friend reaching back.  In so far as I can be helpful, I hope to be one of those hands.

Peace,
Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 16, 2014, 11:01:18 AM
Hmmm,  the goal for many is life, stealth, just living authenticity.  So it follows that this venue will fade in importance.  That is, as others have articulated, as it should be.  I will be post op sometime in late winter, the timing will be largely determined my what is necessary at work, but will I wander off? Probably not, I'm still a part of a community that keeps me whole.  It is still important to me that people in the beginnings of growth into their authentic selves have the perspective of time.

The people here who have already walked the path, have helped me both with their thoughts, but also with their simple presence.  I need to know that there is a land over the rainbow.  That I can get there, and that it will be okay.  Experience informs struggle.  Struggle informs life.

I have a great deal of gratitude to you all and a debt as well.  For me to discharge that debt is to do what I can to ensure that whenever anyone reaches out, there is a hand and a friend reaching back.  In so far as I can be helpful, I hope to be one of those hands.

Peace,
Julie

You do know you don't owe anyone anything right? But helping others is what it is all about, whether through informative information or just sharing life experiences. Yeah, I know I'm kinda' strange and weird but if there is a young person out there somewhere that is going through what I went through and can save them all the BS I went through then hopefully Karma will smile on me, which I really need badly. ;) Not really though but I just hate when people hurt and emotional pain or psychological pain is way more painful than physical pain. Unfortunately too many of us know that mental and psychological pain too well. :(

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 08:51:01 AM
Me either. I hate when people that were here and then disappear and leaves me wondering if they are OK. It would be nice if they would just to say, "Hey, I'm where I need to be so don't worry." And then just a little follow up every now and then. They should know women worry way more about their friends and if they are OK. ;) God, I'm such a girl and way too emotional sometimes. I find myself actually worrying about people I don't even see face to face but just type to. Ok time for a micro meltdown. :'(

Hey, just because it's text instead of speech doesn't somehow make the friendships and connections we have here less real. And I feel far better expressing myself through writing than if you had to hear my voice, which I HATE HATE HATE. lol.

But I feel the same. I think about the people who've disappeared, wonder and sometimes worry. Even the ones I didn't know but just saw around. Promise you won't ever disappear on me, Jess? *huggles you so you can't escape*

Actually I do feel that I have a responsibility, maybe debt is too strong.  People here saved my life.  If my experience, strength, and hope is useful to someonel, then I hope I am willing to share it.  I always gain more in return when that is how I live.

"I've been thinking about this lately. Do you find that many successful transitioners eventually lose interest in the community? That life for them has moved on?"

My initial reaction to this OP was, DUHHH...  Of course they have, why would they not?  After all, their goals have been met.  Then...I went on to read the comments and found some interesting "wrinkles" or points of interest.

Among those was the contrast in some of the reactions.  Many of the reactions seemed to take note that while "transition" was indeed a journey or a process, there was in fact an end to that journey/process.  There came a point where the goal of actually feeling normal had been reached.

Others, perhaps those who have not yet reached that point of just feeling/being "normal", have understandably different views, or even expectations.  Some seem to think that that much maligned and misunderstood concept of 'stealth' is the goal, or perhaps it is just "living as one's true self".  I don't know.  Maybe I am just splitting hairs, but I did notice that someone took note of the fact that because the "view", the perspective from the "other side" is so different tat it actually becomes difficult to communicate with those who have not yet managed to get across.

In my own personal experience which is necessarily much different from those here, I changed my physical sex in a time when there was no trans* or transgendered "community".  Yes there were clubs where drag queens entertained their mostly homosexual friends and fans...and there was even a new and blossoming organization, Tri-Ess, founded by a Dr. Charles Leroy Lowman, AKA Virginia Prince.  http://zagria.blogspot.com/2008/04/virginia-prince-1912-pharmacologist.html#.U--Limfn-RI.

My point in all this is that when I finally recovered from the physical trauma of SRS, I simply moved into "straight" society and was soon married and working on what was to become a successful career.  It was not until decades later that it even occurred to me to look around and see what might have happened to those who might have suffered from the same condition that I did.

What I found could and actually did fill a book.  It certainly was not what I had expected.  Perhaps that is why I have such difficulty sharing and communicating with some of the shall we say 'more established' denizens of this unicorn forest ;) :angel:

Quote from: Pikachu on August 16, 2014, 11:14:22 AM
Hey, just because it's text instead of speech doesn't somehow make the friendships and connections we have here less real. And I feel far better expressing myself through writing than if you had to hear my voice, which I HATE HATE HATE. lol.

But I feel the same. I think about the people who've disappeared, wonder and sometimes worry. Even the ones I didn't know but just saw around. Promise you won't ever disappear on me, Jess? *huggles you so you can't escape*

I wont hon. Yeah texts sometime is no less important than talking face to face. I'll always be here just in case someone can learn from my experience and keep from doing some of the things I though about doing.

Yeah it kind of hurts but we have Jennygirl, Jessica Merriman, Cindy and all the others that keep us in line and informed that could have been long gone. But no they choose to stay here and volunteer their time and so on to help the rest of us. Not to mention the others like Stephaniec and OMG xenguy, Kelly the trans rebel and all the other's I didn't mention but love nonetheless that are here and could easily go stealth. Thank you all. My eternal gratitude. Especially for Jessica for not banning me. ;D Just kidding though.

I just worry too much sometimes and care a little too much some times and did I mention worry? So no I won't leave and Pikachu better not either. Pinky promise? If I was to go Full SRS tomorrow or if some freakin' miracle that I pray for every night along with all the others here on this sight and wake up full female tomorrow. I'll still be here. I pray for our brothers too. But for some reason it never works. :'( Maybe those that come and go, it works on. Or I hope anyway. God, I'm so sensitive. I got tears in my eyes now. :'( I'm such a girl. ;D that makes me feel a little better though.

Interesting responses.

Let me ask what your thoughts are about this - If you are successful in transition, are you really "free" if you remain tethered to the mothership?

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 12:01:34 PM
I wont hon. Yeah texts sometime is no less important than talking face to face. I'll always be here just in case someone can learn from my experience and keep from doing some of the things I though about doing.

Yeah it kind of hurts but we have Jennygirl, Jessica Merriman, Cindy and all the others that keep us in line and informed that could have been long gone. But no they choose to stay here and volunteer their time and so on to help the rest of us. Not to mention the others like Stephaniec and OMG xenguy, Kelly the trans rebel and all the other's I didn't mention but love nonetheless that are here and could easily go stealth. Thank you all. My eternal gratitude. Especially for Jessica for not banning me. ;D Just kidding though.

I just worry too much sometimes and care a little too much some times and did I mention worry? So no I won't leave and Pikachu better not either. Pinky promise? If I was to go Full SRS tomorrow or if some freakin' miracle that I pray for every night along with all the others here on this sight and wake up full female tomorrow. I'll still be here. I pray for our brothers too. But for some reason it never works. :'( Maybe those that come and go, it works on. Or I hope anyway. God, I'm so sensitive. I got tears in my eyes now. :'( I'm such a girl. ;D that makes me feel a little better though.

Awww... *gives you a gentle hug and lets you cry on her shoulder*

Don't worry, sis, I doubt I'll ever leave. Certainly not because I've "moved on" in regards to transition, because that isn't the reason I'm staying to begin with. To me, this is a family, not just a support group. I come here because I enjoy my family's company. There are so many great people here. And I also want to help my family when I can.

"Free" of what? Serious question; I'll never be free of anything in my past, really. I'm also never going to be free of my college or teaching careers as long as I stay friends with people I met then, or of my political blog as long as I stay in touch with some of the people who worked for me, or of my political work in general as long as I keep freelancing at it. I don't see cutting ties with my past as a goal, I guess. I don't mind mentoring new teachers, and I don't mind mentoring new trans people; in neither case does it mean I feel like I still *belong* to the teaching profession or in-transition state. I pick up friendships and connections at every stage in my life, and staying in contact doesn't mean I'm locked into that stage forever.

That's just how I see it, I'm not saying anyone else has to feel the same way, but I never sought stealth or secrecy or total escape from being trans. That said, more and more I prefer to limit my involvement in trans issues to times when I consciously chose to start the conversation, as it were - I am looking for a new job for unrelated reasons but won't out myself when hired, and don't especially want to be the diversity coordinator in people's lives in general. Which is kind of another reason I'm here : it allows me to feel less guilty about being less and less visible as trans in meatspace. The more my past disappears from memory and I fade into the woodwork in my real life, the more I feel like I need to do my duty by the community somehow. But again, that's just me.


(I quit teaching in 2003, for the curious.)

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 12:05:02 PM
Interesting responses.

Let me ask what your thoughts are about this - If you are successful in transition, are you really "free" if you remain tethered to the mothership?

Why not? It's not like I'm on this forum because it's some substitute for something else in my life. After I've transitioned, I'll be a transitioned woman sitting at her computer rather than a male-bodied woman sitting at her computer, hehe. I don't plan on suddenly living a radically different life. It'll just be the same ol' same ol' but without hating my body.

Quote from: Susan522 on August 16, 2014, 12:00:54 PM
"I've been thinking about this lately. Do you find that many successful transitioners eventually lose interest in the community? That life for them has moved on?"

My initial reaction to this OP was, DUHHH...  Of course they have, why would they not?  After all, their goals have been met.  Then...I went on to read the comments and found some interesting "wrinkles" or points of interest.

Among those was the contrast in some of the reactions.  Many of the reactions seemed to take note that while "transition" was indeed a journey or a process, there was in fact an end to that journey/process.  There came a point where the goal of actually feeling normal had been reached.

Yeah I agree lol it was more of lead-in to what my inward thinking was. That if you are successful in transition, then you've walked over the bridge. There isn't much reason to come back after healing. That question of, "is this what successful transition is" - a permanent change to a new normal. If looking or reaching backwards reconnects you to what was not normal. Then is it "successful".

After transition one's past doesn't vanish, it's still there and always will be. Some prefer to disappear into the woods never to be seen or heard from again, but personally I don't consider transition to ever be over until we cease to exist because as long as we're here on this planet there is something new and interesting to be discovered about ourselves and those around us. I continue to come here to share some of my own insights with others so that they don't have to continually reinvent the wheel. I can offer encouragement to some and solace to others rather than divorce myself from this community and disavow my own background within that same community that lifted me up on many occasions. Life is about more than just me.

Quote from: Pikachu on August 16, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
Awww... *gives you a gentle hug and lets you cry on her shoulder*

Don't worry, sis, I doubt I'll ever leave. Certainly not because I've "moved on" in regards to transition, because that isn't the reason I'm staying to begin with. To me, this is a family, not just a support group. I come here because I enjoy my family's company. There are so many great people here. And I also want to help my family when I can.

Awww....Thank you *gives a tight hug and cries on your shoulder*.

Yeah. I'm kind of down right now. Actually I am at rock bottom right now. I'll never move on either. I think even after everything, I'll still be here just to help anyone that needs it. Not because I need god Karma or making amends but just to help others and hopefully make a difference in someone's life or let them see that being tans isn't Taboo.

Quote from: Shantel on August 16, 2014, 12:35:14 PM
After transition one's past doesn't vanish, it's still there and always will be. Some prefer to disappear into the woods never to be seen or heard from again, but personally I don't consider transition to ever be over until we cease to exist because as long as we're here on this planet there is something new and interesting to be discovered about ourselves and those around us. I continue to come here to share some of my own insights with others so that they don't have to continually reinvent the wheel. I can offer encouragement to some and solace to others rather than divorce myself from this community and disavow my own background within that same community that lifted me up on many occasions. Life is about more than just me.

God Shantel, you are so right. And yeha the day we stop learning is the day we are dead.

it's only a simple click away how can you not sneak a peek

But do I want to sneak a peak. And firing up all those old emotions... That's a good question. At least for me.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 12:47:43 PM
But do I want to sneak a peak. And firing up all those old emotions... That's a good question. At least for me.

Fear of having perky nipples can be overwhelming for some!  :icon_peace: Oh I'm bad today, you'll have to forgive me hon!  :icon_bunch:

I have seen things, you people wouldn't believe.... ;D

We luv ya Shan.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 01:30:20 AM
That eventually even Evelyn might just fade into the woodwork.

I don't see it as "fading into the woodwork".  More like "riding off into the sunset".  Sounds a bit more romantic to me somehow.

But seriously I could see myself withdrawing from forums some day, though I don't think I'd ever quit seeing the trans friends I have.  A lot of times I get tired of thinking so much about trans issues.  Maybe some day I'll get thoroughly sick of it and stop doing it altogether.  I'm not sure when that day will come, though.  Just today I came to a bit of self-understanding on two fairly important points.

So I think that as long as I have things I need to learn, I'll stick around, keep my iron in the fire, so to speak.  And I do learn things from other people.  It's a help to me to see other people's thinking on various issues.

Though one thing that bothers me there is that lots of times we transpeople get involved in a fair bit of squabbling over this or that issue.  I get fairly annoyed with that, mainly because lots of times I think we're discussing issues where there's no real right or wrong.  It's simply a question of how you personally approach things or sometimes what your own personal needs happen to be.  I really don't like squabbles, and I generally try to stay out of them. 

I've always stayed out of the "community" for the most part. For years, I wouldn't even go on a trans forum, but after the mainstream forum I liked so much closed down, I turned to this site for the need I had to interact online, y'all just happen to be a little more like me than most in the other forum was. I've really not turned to this for support, but a few special people have been quite supportive of me as I flit about on the fringe during the three years I've been around.


As for support in real life, I've had a little from family, but for the most part, I've done without, I even stopped therapy more than 8 years ago.

"That question of, "is this what successful transition is" - a permanent change to a new normal. If looking or reaching backwards reconnects you to what was not normal. Then is it "successful".
"

I really do not feel comfortable, or even qualified to define or try to determine what is "normal".    I will leave that to others.  A commonly accepted definition can be found here (http://here): http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normal.

Just like 'normal' is what normal does, I think, as many here have said, normal for each individual is IMHO, what works for them.  The problems seem to arise when that definition of normal that might work for one individual, just might not work for others.  Result?  Squabbles.  And yes.  Those squabbles do get tiresome.

I would hate to be 'normal'.   Despite all the bull->-bleeped-<-, i like being trans and the edge it gives me.  That being said i concur with the others in the sense that i am not expecting to transition and sail away into a new world and be a new person, rather i will still be me with girly upgrades.

Quote from: Susan522 on August 16, 2014, 02:22:07 PM
"That question of, "is this what successful transition is" - a permanent change to a new normal. If looking or reaching backwards reconnects you to what was not normal. Then is it "successful".
"

I really do not feel comfortable, or even qualified to define or try to determine what is "normal".    I will leave that to others.  A commonly accepted definition can be found here (http://here): http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normal.

Just like 'normal' is what normal does, I think, as many here have said, normal for each individual is IMHO, what works for them.  The problems seem to arise when that definition of normal that might work for one individual, just might not work for others.  Result?  Squabbles.  And yes.  Those squabbles do get tiresome.

I think normal in our context refers to 'CIS' normal, or emulating it as close as possible. It's our benchmark and holy grail after all. At least normal enough where one doesn't have to think about it any longer and has truly moved on to let happiness and 'life' fill those spaces instead. Hence leaving any need for further support behind.

Quote from: Zoe the Obscure on August 16, 2014, 03:15:21 PM
I would hate to be 'normal'.   Despite all the bull->-bleeped-<-, i like being trans and the edge it gives me.  That being said i concur with the others in the sense that i am not expecting to transition and sail away into a new world and be a new person, rather i will still be me with girly upgrades.

+1 I'm rather eccentric but that's my normal!

I too hate normal. I am abnormal. I was abnormal when really bad things happened, I was abnormal when I graduate highschool. I was abnormal when I went to LA. I was abnormal when I move back the AR. I was abnormal when I joined the Army. I tried to act normal in the military and pass for basic and AIT, fail after first duty station. I was abnormal when I got out. I have been abnormal since. Screw being normal, It ain't no fun. Give me abnormal any day over the hum drum of normalness.

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 05:25:30 PM
I too hate normal. I am abnormal. I was abnormal when really bad things happened, I was abnormal when I graduate highschool. I was abnormal when I went to LA. I was abnormal when I move back the AR. I was abnormal when I joined the Army. I tried to act normal in the military and pass for basic and AIT, fail after first duty station. I was abnormal when I got out. I have been abnormal since. Screw being normal, It ain't no fun. Give me abnormal any day over the hum drum of normalness.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 04:47:51 PM
I think normal in our context refers to 'CIS' normal, or emulating it as close as possible. It's our benchmark and holy grail after all. At least normal enough where one doesn't have to think about it any longer and has truly moved on to let happiness and 'life' fill those spaces instead. Hence leaving any need for further support behind.

Like I said....:angel: :) ;D Whatever works

What an interesting discussion.  I will never be "cis normal" never was when I pretended to be a man, unlikely now.  I long to find my own niche which is unique to me and acceptable to the rest of my environment.  I am kind of reminded of AA, I will never be finished.   I will never be cured.  I will never be "Transitioned".  I see myself as is more of a pilgrim,  a seeker, a student.  One of the nice things about being my age is that next year I can audit graduate level  courses at the University of Washington for very little money.  There are lots of areas of inquiry that I had to pass on to focus on credentials necessary to earn a living.  Guess I'm a bit tired of CS and engineering.

Sorry, to ramble on, but if I'm never finished then I will always have something new to learn.  If I'm learning I'm not leaving.  You guys will be cursed with me for a long time I guess ;)

I guess the question becomes the level of intensity.  For a time I found a lifeline here.  Then friendship which seems to be evolving into companions and fellow travelers.   Kinda makes me want to sing union songs,  lol.  At least until Jessica notices and I'm banished.  ;)

julie

Hehe~ Never was normal, never will be normal, never want to be normal. Being trans is hardly what makes me strange by society's standards. Everything about me, from my religious, political and philosophical views down to my sexuality and the clothes I like are in the minority, at least where I live. Being normal is overrated. ;)

There is an interesting thought pattern here, should one revel in your transgender 'oddness' or delight in fulfilling the role of the cis-woman you were supposed to be in the first place.  Ultimately it comes down to the labels we choose, and there is no such thing as a wrong answer. 

I have always wondered though, if i was born cis, what kind of a person would i be?  Personally i think i would be an irritating cis-privileged middle class closet-dyke with an arts degree and a wine dialect, which compared to myself the real world (suitably an extra in a John Waters film) would really suck.

I think i am waffling, erm sorry.

"CIS-normal"  Another interesting word, invented to somehow differentiate trans*-peeps from others.  It seems that cis is a function of trans* in that cis is somehow the opposite of trans*. 

I guess that makes me "cis" in that I am perfectly happy with my gender and my sex and all my "parts" work nicely, more or less in harmony.  In the "olden days", we used to call that 'well balanced'.

Now 'normal', is an interesting concept.  Using the definition referenced above, it means, more or less "middle of the road".  In many ways I am normal, but in many more, I am very, very abnormal.  I agree that normal, while a relatively safe place to be, can be pretty boring.  But then again, most people, who know me in passing think I am exceedingly normal as I tend to carry as low a profile as I can.  Why?  Because it is safe.  Why make oneself a target.  Life is tough enough without looking for trouble.

For me normal means living without the need for hindsight or introspection to help guide your transition going forward. There is no more forward, your transition is complete. It is indeed - an endpoint.

There is only "riding off into the sunset" left, as Foxwood has said.

I know I'm finding it harder and harder to identify with what early transition like for me and I feel my ability to support is starting to suffer for it. The terror, the prejudice I projected upon the world. I remember that I felt and did that but I'm disconnected from the mindset because I've found I was so very, very wrong and it's not so recent history for me anymore.

The above means I've arrived at a place where I've been thinking more and more that I'm coming to another hiatus or perhaps an outright end here. Therapy will become very rare for me sometime next year after I get SRS. It's so bizarre to know I'm coming to an finality, victorious beyond any dream I dared to dream in the battle I've been in since Halloween when I was in kindergarten and first knew I was a girl. I've only known my life laden with this battle. But ever since I got my new glasses at the start of this month and cast off the last trace of the guy I was from my daily presentation, I'm mostly just a woman in the world now and being trans is more like a, "Oh yeah, that's right. That happened." to my mind.

I will be going. That's all I know for sure. Not today, but soon.

^^ Makes a lot of sense. And your sig line underscores it nicely.

I actually never answered my own topic starter question.

My pivotal moment will be after my trachea shave and most likely an orchy. I'm hoping to be complete 1-year in which is March next year. I'll start my legal transition in Jan. HRT is a given, I hope for more dramatic improvements.

My goals until then:

Continue voice training.
Even loooonger hair.
Finish laser and electro. Maybe full body.
More exercise induced muscle atrophy.
Build up a new wardrobe. ;D Probably my most favorite part.
Pickup some basic makeup skillz.
Learn the in's and outs of female socialization.

So I'm still here for awhile. Meh.

Quote from: Misato on August 16, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
I know I'm finding it harder and harder to identify with what early transition like for me and I feel my ability to support is starting to suffer for it. The terror, the prejudice I projected upon the world. I remember that I felt and did that but I'm disconnected from the mindset because I've found I was so very, very wrong and it's not so recent history for me anymore.

This right here is why early transitioners need to hear from the post transition crowd.  Given their often fragile mental state, nothing could help them more than a good dose of reality.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 17, 2014, 12:18:53 AM
^^ Makes a lot of sense. And your sig line underscores it nicely.

Changed it last night to reflect the closing time phase I've entered. :)

Quote from: katiej on August 17, 2014, 12:30:00 AM
This right here is why early transitioners need to hear from the post transition crowd.  Given their often fragile mental state, nothing could help them more than a good dose of reality.

Delivering doses of reality is not my style though and I get uncomfortable when I do. I'm better as a guide. I ask questions to help others find the truth of their reality and it helps me understand what life is like for others. I mean I'm white, in my 30's, educated, in an in demand field for work, work that pays very well, while living and moving about the Midwestern United States. When I try to help someone younger or with not my skin color or with less income, all I can do is engage and try to understand what their situation is which has the wonderful side effect of helping others look at themselves and their views. One needn't be post transition to do that either. :)

Reading through this thread and seeing so many talk about eventually leaving the forum makes me sad... I guess I always knew that some people would leave once their transition was complete, but I never really actively thought about it before. I'm not going to beg you girls to stick around, but I wanted you to know that I'll miss seeing you around a great deal once you're gone.

I guess it's just a shock to me to see so many people with such a different view of things than I have in this regard. I don't view transition as having an endpoint, really. I can't imagine ever getting to a point where I think to myself, "Whew, I'm finally done! Now I can feel happy and put this all behind me!" Maybe when I first joined, I had this sort of mentality. The, "Transition starts with this and ends with this," sort. But somewhere along the way, things changed. I started becoming more interested in the mental aspects of transition than the physical. Through the help of some amazing women on this forum, I became more in touch with my femininity. I was able to explore my emotions. I became more empathetic. I discovered a sort of maternal instinct, I suppose. I wanted to nurture people. I wanted to help them see what they so often couldn't: That they're beautiful, precious... That someone genuinely cares when they're going through rough times and is there to listen, and that they would be greatly missed if they left this world.

This is the greatest joy I have discovered during transition. Being there for others. I've never felt more feminine or happy than when I'm helping others. When someone tells me we'll be friends forever or accepts me as a real member of their family, it's a better feeling to me than I'll ever get from hormones or SRS or anything else I can change about my body. And that leads me into another point I wanted to make -- You don't need to be able to personally relate to someone's situation to be able to help them. I should know. I have virtually NO experience when it comes to transition. I'm "pre-everything," as it were (a term I've grown to dislike as it doesn't account for the vast emotional and mental transition I have gone through), and I don't share many of the feelings other girls have about transition. I don't feel scared about it. I'm not worried one bit about society's reactions. I've dealt with the ignorance and bigotry of society my entire life, living in the south. It's nothing new and scary to me. But it doesn't matter whether or not I'm in the same situation as someone. I still know what it's like to hurt. To feel fear. To feel hopeless. And I know what it's like to want to die. I can still empathize. I can still help. I can still be a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen, and a loyal friend. Often that's what helps more than anything else. Just being there for someone.

Well... This is a long rambly post and I'm not sure there was a point to it. I just started writing to say I'd miss you girls when you leave, and it turned into this. Maybe something in there was useful to someone. If not, thanks for reading anyway.

Evelyn, Misato, and the others... I hope you achieve all your goals in transition, but I'll miss you if you feel the need to "ride off into the sunset" someday. :'(

Some are givers and some are takers, we all take and some give back. But it's a lot deeper than that, for some it's the emotional connection to an extended family. I came here way back when Susan's Place was new, I had a different name then and enjoyed learning and taking in all the information I could get, there were those I really liked and some not so likable. Eventually I left and moved on. Several years went by and I'd occasionally check out the forums as a guest. Now that I'm fully matured and have taken my physical transition as far as I intended, I have reached a realization that there are a lot of "youngsters" that could use a leg up and maybe a shoulder to cry on and it has been a pleasure for me to transition from taker to giver which for me is just another step in my own ever developing transition into adulthood. I say that because I'm only twenty years old from the time I said goodbye to that old worm and broke out of my cocoon and spread my wings.

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 08:27:57 AM
For me, I don't think it ever will. I feel like I owe it to other's that may need support, encouragement and advice. Maybe owe is not exactly the word I was looking for but all I want to do is help others that are going through the same thing I have been through and still going through. It's a never ending process for me. Others here have helped me and I owe them my eternal gratitude for sure. So paying it forward is sort of the attitude I take.

^^^ + 1

Yeah, could not have expressed my views better... it is not all about me but about those around me... including those in my cyber universe

Pikachu, Shaun,

I sincerely hope you never graduate and leave.  We are all human becomings and I for one need you, and hope I can always call you friends.

Peace
Julie

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 05:25:30 PM
I too hate normal. I am abnormal. I was abnormal when really bad things happened, I was abnormal when I graduate highschool. I was abnormal when I went to LA. I was abnormal when I move back the AR. I was abnormal when I joined the Army. I tried to act normal in the military and pass for basic and AIT, fail after first duty station. I was abnormal when I got out. I have been abnormal since. Screw being normal, It ain't no fun. Give me abnormal any day over the hum drum of normalness.

I do not think in terms of abnormal but perhaps as eccentric, scholar, poet, scientists, warrior, we all in some way are unique... gifted...

I too refuse to impose a label on my giftedness... I am a an American human female... the rest are but details...

I want to thank and praise you all, what a wonderful collection of thoughtful posts

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 17, 2014, 09:59:49 AM
Pikachu, Shaun,

I sincerely hope you never graduate and leave.  We are all human becomings and I for one need you, and hope I can always call you friends.

Peace
Julie

:) Yes!

I guessing that if one were to leave Susan's they wouldn't leave the internet so why would some one purposely avoid checking it out like checking out daily news. kind of strange actually, unless your in denial of transitioning. not to be argumentative , just curious. or just to say hi!. of course if you de-transition I could understand I don't know maybe it's not a big deal

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 17, 2014, 09:59:49 AM
Pikachu, Shaun,

I sincerely hope you never graduate and leave.  We are all human becomings and I for one need you, and hope I can always call you friends.

Peace
Julie

I'd be honoured to be your friend, Julie. You're such a sweet lady. :)

Quote from: Pikachu on August 17, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Reading through this thread and seeing so many talk about eventually leaving the forum makes me sad... I guess I always knew that some people would leave once their transition was complete, but I never really actively thought about it before. I'm not going to beg you girls to stick around, but I wanted you to know that I'll miss seeing you around a great deal once you're gone.

I guess it's just a shock to me to see so many people with such a different view of things than I have in this regard. I don't view transition as having an endpoint, really. I can't imagine ever getting to a point where I think to myself, "Whew, I'm finally done! Now I can feel happy and put this all behind me!" Maybe when I first joined, I had this sort of mentality. The, "Transition starts with this and ends with this," sort. But somewhere along the way, things changed. I started becoming more interested in the mental aspects of transition than the physical. Through the help of some amazing women on this forum, I became more in touch with my femininity. I was able to explore my emotions. I became more empathetic. I discovered a sort of maternal instinct, I suppose. I wanted to nurture people. I wanted to help them see what they so often couldn't: That they're beautiful, precious... That someone genuinely cares when they're going through rough times and is there to listen, and that they would be greatly missed if they left this world.

This is the greatest joy I have discovered during transition. Being there for others. I've never felt more feminine or happy than when I'm helping others. When someone tells me we'll be friends forever or accepts me as a real member of their family, it's a better feeling to me than I'll ever get from hormones or SRS or anything else I can change about my body. And that leads me into another point I wanted to make -- You don't need to be able to personally relate to someone's situation to be able to help them. I should know. I have virtually NO experience when it comes to transition. I'm "pre-everything," as it were (a term I've grown to dislike as it doesn't account for the vast emotional and mental transition I have gone through), and I don't share many of the feelings other girls have about transition. I don't feel scared about it. I'm not worried one bit about society's reactions. I've dealt with the ignorance and bigotry of society my entire life, living in the south. It's nothing new and scary to me. But it doesn't matter whether or not I'm in the same situation as someone. I still know what it's like to hurt. To feel fear. To feel hopeless. And I know what it's like to want to die. I can still empathize. I can still help. I can still be a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen, and a loyal friend. Often that's what helps more than anything else. Just being there for someone.

Well, I've gone as far as I can go in my transition. The only thing that needs to be done is completing electro and that is a bit of an open ended situation at the moment. Once that happens (if it ever does), then I'm fine. But I plan on sticking around (having been here since summer of 06 under a few different monikers.) Where else I am going to go?

Green Meadow, perhaps?

Hmmmmm........

I do not think anyone can truly walk away from having a support system.

As we progress in transition we also form bonds with people as friends and those friendships are your support system.

Maybe you do not need the support as needed in early transition but knowing you have friends you can reach out sure makes life nicer as we moved out in the world finished with the transition process.

Ha, i am still here to offer my support. Mine is deeply part of my transition.

This is my way to say thank you to the community for helping me when i needed a lift.

well, unless for some reason I don't have access to a computer I'll always check in

I seem to have an odd hybrid viewpoint, in that I see my transition as having had a concrete end point (which was more than four years ago now), but my transness/membership in the community as open-ended. I *don't* actually see cis normal as a "holy grail"; if I did, I'd be perpetually holding myself to a standard I was doomed to fail, at least inside my own head. I'll never cease to be a woman who transitioned rather than a woman who was born cis... and that's OK. My past is part of who I am, but it doesn't have to define my future.

(I am cis now, I suppose, insofar as my gender identity and public gender and physical body are all aligned. But I'm uncomfortable claiming the unadorned label, because I wasn't *always* cis female and doing so erases a big part of what made me who I am. Just like I can't deny having been a teacher or journalist as both inform the career skills I have now, albeit indirectly and in the past.)

In Truth, this community has literally saved my life, and steered me toward the happiness I now have found. So I plan to remain a member long after I've had my SRS and other surgeries, as long as this community will have me anyways. I've also met some truly fabulous people on here that I've become quite attached to that I'd very truly miss if I stopped checking in, and hope they feel the same way. I've also met two very special people on here who are very dear to my heart. So I'm sorry ladies and gent's, you're stuck with me, lol! :icon_bunch: :icon_wink: :icon_yes:

Ali :icon_flower:

I don't think I'll ever move on from the transgender community and I haven't even started T yet. Granted, that was my original plan but my old college professor, who is my biggest supporter in transitioning, told me that there's a bigger plan in store for me and maybe that I was born to tell a story to teach society something. She talked about maybe writing a book on my transition and the problems that come with it. Who knows, it could happen and I'm not ruling out being an activist someday.

This whole idea would probably out me as transgender but I don't care, transgender rights need to be improved and, let's face it, you got to think beyond yourself and sacrifice stealth to achieve better things for future transgender people who want to be like everyone else. Being stealth wouldn't change things because visibility is important.

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 16, 2014, 11:33:06 AM
Actually I do feel that I have a responsibility, maybe debt is too strong.  People here saved my life.  If my experience, strength, and hope is useful to someonel, then I hope I am willing to share it.  I always gain more in return when that is how I live.

Also I'd like to add, I couldn't have said it better myself. ^^___^^ Thanks Julie. :eusa_clap:

Ali :icon_flower:

Quote from: stephaniec on August 17, 2014, 12:12:34 PM
I guessing that if one were to leave Susan's they wouldn't leave the internet so why would some one purposely avoid checking it out like checking out daily news. kind of strange actually, unless your in denial of transitioning. not to be argumentative , just curious. or just to say hi!. of course if you de-transition I could understand I don't know maybe it's not a big deal

I think it's more about some realizing that there tends to be a lot of sadness and precariously unstable decisions around these parts; it's just easier to remove oneself from all the emotional turmoil and internal exhaustion.

Quote from: Shantel on August 17, 2014, 09:42:13 AM
Some are givers and some are takers, we all take and some give back. But it's a lot deeper than that, for some it's the emotional connection to an extended family. I came here way back when Susan's Place was new, I had a different name then and enjoyed learning and taking in all the information I could get, there were those I really liked and some not so likable. Eventually I left and moved on. Several years went by and I'd occasionally check out the forums as a guest. Now that I'm fully matured and have taken my physical transition as far as I intended, I have reached a realization that there are a lot of "youngsters" that could use a leg up and maybe a shoulder to cry on and it has been a pleasure for me to transition from taker to giver which for me is just another step in my own ever developing transition into adulthood. I say that because I'm only twenty years old from the time I said goodbye to that old worm and broke out of my cocoon and spread my wings.

For me it's always been a two-way street. I'll ask and I'll consider advice, and wherever I'm lacking in cogent transition related expertise, I still give back to the forum in other (but not always apparent) and different ways. ;D

I actually do have a lot to be thankful for. And that's why I love to participate here.(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2F28ssrwp.jpg&hash=8c14444bc13e3e6083fe1e3f76fb05bb8c095f3b)

Hi! :angel:

Quote from: Susan522 on August 17, 2014, 05:20:57 PM
Hi! :angel:

Hi Susan!

I like to think of trans support sites like a high school.
You have your "year" - where you are up to in transition (questioning -> therapy-> HRT etc)
You have your class - mtf, ftm, nb, etc

As with schools, you'll tend to have strongest relationships where there are most intersection of interests.

We go through this school together, eventually "graduating" - when a person has gotten far enough to be at peace with themselves.  At graduation, many move on, not looking back, some come back as teachers/mentors.

Some friendships formed here will last for life.

There was a group of trans I knew reasonably well from a previous support site (now defunct), and they've pretty much scattered to the four winds.   I'm still in touch with one of them, and it's been 12 years and counting.

I don't want to imagine this place without any of you, and Evelyn, where would we be without all the fun and interesting threads you create and your sweet personality? :)

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 01:30:20 AM
I've been thinking about this lately. Do you find that many successful transitioners eventually lose interest in the community? That life for them has moved on?

I've notice something in common with those who have undoubtedly been successful at transitioning. You never really hear much from them afterwards. Oh it's not a knock, it's just a feeling that I myself have been sensing within. That eventually even Evelyn might just fade into the woodwork.

If I had all my major tick boxes checked, would I really need support when I'm busy just living? And as you know, 'normal' life is quite busy in of itself.

Thoughts?

Me leave?  Hell no!  You won't get rid of me that easily!

I've been full time and post everything for almost seven years.  And one of the reasons I did as well as I did was because of all the support I have received from my brothers and sisters here.

I do admit that I don't post anywhere as often as I used to.  But I check in every single day.  For me, now, I feel I must pay forward to those who come after me.  Where I can, help, advise, or listen to those who struggle with their own demons (I *smite* thee demon!).  Or wonder what it's like to be on the other side (fantastic!).  Or if it was all worth it (yes!).

Often times, others may say what I would have said, often more eloquently, so I remain silent.  But that doesn't mean I don't feel the need.

Yes, the daily bustle of a "normal" life can be quite overwhelming at times.  But I always, always, check in.  For I must now give back the gift that has been given to me.

Every.Single.Day.

-Sandy

Funny the comparison to school. I'd rather gouge my eyes out than socialize with anyone from school. I consider it fortunate that I have never met a classmate in adulthood. It was not a good time.
No I don't have contempt for the LGBT community like that, I never have and I never will. I may take my leave someday though.

Edit added: I went to school not far from the Ferguson riot area.

As my mind has pretty much settled on the gender front, I don't find myself needing this place, but I'll still try to check in once a day.

EDIT: okay, my mind isn't actually completely settled and I might well need this place after all.

Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on August 19, 2014, 10:04:28 AM
Funny the comparison to school. I'd rather gouge my eyes out than socialize with anyone from school. I consider it fortunate that I have never met a classmate in adulthood. It was not a good time.

I actually had an old friend track me down in the before time, in the long, long ago. (aka the year 2000). He went out to my parents house and discovered that I had moved out. He stops by my apartment and wants to catch up. Okay...fine. BUT he ended up wanting to talk about "the good old days" and that got under my skin pretty quick because: 1. Those days totally sucked and 2. I was more concerned about what was going on at the current point in time, even if those days had been good.

I ended up getting a little pissed at him (which probably wasn't the best way to handle it. But, I hated those days so much.) So, I pressed the issue of changing the subject and he makes the remark that "I've changed". Of course, that was absurd. I just didn't want to talk about a time that was 90% crap. It ended on a bad note after that since that comment rubbed him the wrong way. He made the remark that "I was only your friend because I felt sorry for you." I pointed towards the door and told him, in a very calm and yet firm manner, to get out. He split and I didn't see him for five years. I was sitting around getting wasted and he shows up again. Well, considering that I hadn't given him a single thought in five years and I was pretty trashed. I didn't recognize him when I opened the door. He ended up getting all whiny since I didn't go "Oh, hey! It's you" in the half second it took to open the door. I attempted to invite him in, but he left in a huff. I closed the door, shrugged my shoulders and went back to what I was doing.

Haven't seen him since that night.

Well it's happened several times for me,

You can see in my profile I've been around since like 2007, that's nearly 8 years but it is punctuated... You can see in my earliest posts how I gradually go from;
2007 Depressed collage student, "Am I Trans like you? I don't know..."
2010 Anxious excitable transitioning University undergrad, "I have boobs! My face is changing! Help my landlord wants to 'kill dem ->-bleeped-<-s'"
2012 Cynical sarcastic Young career woman. "The Doctors are useless I'm never gonna get SRS"
2014 Post SRS Recuperation... "Is this normal? Please say yes!"

Each time I needed to learn something from those who've been through this before... In my daily life I don't know any other transwomen who I come into contact with.

That's fine because usually I know what I'm doing, I inject myself with Estrogen, put my bra on, and goto work it's not weird for me, I've been doing it for years.

But it's when things change for you, you need a place like this to discuss your concerns. Afterward your usually pretty grateful so you give back to said community, Sharing your experiences and helping those who haven't get gone through that particular loop of transition.
However that said, there are only so many times you can recite certain excerpts of your life or give advice without it becoming tedious and that's when you leave.

While It's not for me to judge I do honestly have some frustration with those transwomen who from my time opted to delete there accounts upon them leaving however... while I'm sure most don't bother, There post histories offer a potential wealth of knowledge to the next generation of transitioners, by deleting your account you prevent anyone searching for those posts in post history bar.

I know why... Many of them intend on living stealth and want no identifiable information. But it's still unfortunate.

Anywho... hello again susans, Or is it goodbye again?

Quote from: pebbles on August 19, 2014, 04:03:03 PM
While It's not for me to judge I do honestly have some frustration with those transwomen who from my time opted to delete there accounts upon them leaving however... while I'm sure most don't bother, There post histories offer a potential wealth of knowledge to the next generation of transitioners, by deleting your account you prevent anyone searching for those posts in post history bar.

Well then, you have issues with me in that case. My first visit to Susans many years ago I deleted over 1000 posts and then deleted my account. I was being researched by a journalist and I had been dumb enough to use my actual name as the profile.

Sometimes is not as simple as it seems.

Quote from: aaggat on August 19, 2014, 04:55:19 PM
Well then, you have issues with me in that case. My first visit to Susans many years ago I deleted over 1000 posts and then deleted my account. I was being researched by a journalist and I had been dumb enough to use my actual name as the profile.

Sometimes is not as simple as it seems.

Of course these issues are nuanced I know of another individual from where who deleted there account because they went into a professional career where they might encounter transpepole as clients and didn't want the relationship to be unprofessional.

Still frustrating even if I understand the very logical rationalization behind it because there story had unique insight.

Yes, you're correct, Evelyn, a vast majority of people, once they reach the point where they've been full-time for a while and settled in to their new life, leave the trans support network. They don't need it anymore because, well, they're just living their lives as a normal member of society now. And there's honestly not a lot of support for post-transition people at trans groups, trans groups are more helpful for those who are going through the early scared phases of transition.

A vast majority of the trans girls I started transition with pretty much almost never come here anymore. They maybe make one post a week, if that. Most of the trans women I was looking up to when I was starting transition, they've long since left. Some have even deleted their accounts all together and gone stealth.

Hell, for all intents and purposes, I don't even need to be here anymore. The only reason I'm still here is because I like being an activist and like sharing some of my knowledge with others so I can hopefully help those who were in the same position I was in at this time last year. (I'd just been fired from my job, and I still wasn't passing, so I wasn't ready to go full-time, and I was FREAKING OUT.) I don't have any plans to leave personally, but again, it's because I like being an activist. I feel like it would be a disservice to the community to not tell my story and reassure people that it does get better, after suffering through all I suffered through and then finally emerging on the other side. But leaving is indeed the norm.

please no  one take what I say in  a wrong or mean spirited way . I just   find it incredibly difficult to understand how some one who  had sought out advice on Susan's at some point and regardless of being  stealth or not  wouldn't want  to  simply tap the mouse. It's not like  taking a 3 day greyhound bus ride to visit  a relative you haven't seen since you were 5 years old I'm sorry no harm intended. I admit I could be missing some fundamental rationality 

Perhaps it is worth noting that the original question was "when does the need for transitioning support end?".  Does it not stand to reason that that need for said support would end once that transition was successfully completed?

I can do without the implication that there exists some 'debt' of gratitude.  Maybe....what you are missing is that just maybe this "support" is mostly directed towards those who are still struggling with the effects of not transitioning or transitioning unsuccessfully.

I hope that no one will be offended by these thoughts but I think it is naïve to believe that every 'transition' is successful.

I think I would have needed many more months of therapy if it wasn't for Susan's.  When I came in, I was still pretty green, and I quickly found a lot of friends and answers to my questions.  I saw what worked for people and what didn't and hey, I ended up navigating my way through the trans* mine field unscathed.  I went from still being halfway scared sh*tless to where I am pretty confident these days.

I don't really need much more in the way of support for being trans, nor do I see a therapist or psychiatrist anymore, but if I can help save lives or quality of lives, then that's what I am doing here.  It feels great to give back and help out when help is needed after I've been there and done that.  And if I can make you laugh or brighten your day in any way, then that's great too.

I have no plans to go anywhere.  I'm here to help people like myself and bring happiness to those who seek it.

I agree, helping people feels good.  I do my best.  Sadly I am not very politically correct, but I do try my best.  I also agree that it can be immensely helpful when those that have "been there done that" are willing to share from their experience.

I think that the difficulty arises, (at least in my case), when those who might benefit from my thoughts, have their own ideas.   In my thinking, that is fine.  It is clearly their prerogative to take my thoughts to heart....or not.

Quote from: stephaniec on August 19, 2014, 08:10:30 PM
please no  one take what I say in  a wrong or mean spirited way . I just   find it incredibly difficult to understand how some one who  had sought out advice on Susan's at some point and regardless of being  stealth or not  wouldn't want  to  simply tap the mouse.

I do not mind helping people coming along behind me, but there are times I can definitely do without this place. There are people here who simply will not listen to what you tell them, there are people here who almost seem to enjoy wallowing in their misery, there are people here who simply seem to enjoy  inflicting negative opinions on others and there are people here who simply argue because they have an agenda that needs ramming down other people's throats.

Now, this is no different from normal, everyday life but in everyday life I tend to avoid extremely negative people who suck the joy and happiness out of every day. I have no difficulty helping and dealing with people trying to deal with problems but after watching four alcoholics drink their way into early graves I know there are some battles I cannot win.

I understand that many of these very difficult cases need help and support but I get too involved emotionally and then I start spiralling down towards the black pit of despair. I do not have the ability to "shrug off" my over involvement, what doctors call "Clinical Distance".

So I stick to providing information to help people. That is what I can do. I am not much of a support person but I do what I can. Having crawled up out of the black pit, I will be darned if I will let someone pull me back into it.

I would like to add that, even though I'm still pre-op (SRS this December) because of this website and the people on it, so far with the exception of a rough patch I mentioned earlier 8 months ago, I've had a very trouble free transition. For the forseeable future I expect it to remain trouble free. Bottom surgery is for the most part scheduled and I've gotten the green light for VFS and FFS if I need it. I pass without thinking about passing, I've been full time for 5 plus years now, and my wardrobe is completely female. So in truth even though I'm still pre-op I've just moved on living my day to day life as the woman I was always meant to be. And life is great, I'm very happy. But has my need for support ended?

I say no. Not in the least. I'm very emotional, emotions which can overwhelm me at times and this website is my Rock of Gibraltar, my safe place I can go where I have friends who really care about me and my well being way more than any therapist could. I can come on here and rant, rave, and complain or voice my opinions without fear of being judged. I can also laugh, cry, express ideas and thoughts also without being judged. But most important, I can share my life experiences with those just starting out and pay forward the help and support given me that was so so so needed at the time., and let them know somebody cares, that they're not alone, and that it can and will get better no matter what their particular level of dysphoria is.

I'm in it for the long haul, so again, your stuck with me ladies and gents.

Ali :icon_flower:

Quote from: aaggat on August 20, 2014, 04:27:19 AM
I do not mind helping people coming along behind me, but there are times I can definitely do without this place. There are people here who simply will not listen to what you tell them, there are people here who almost seem to enjoy wallowing in their misery, there are people here who simply seem to enjoy  inflicting negative opinions on others and there are people here who simply argue because they have an agenda that needs ramming down other people's throats.

Now, this is no different from normal, everyday life but in everyday life I tend to avoid extremely negative people who suck the joy and happiness out of every day. I have no difficulty helping and dealing with people trying to deal with problems but after watching four alcoholics drink their way into early graves I know there are some battles I cannot win.

I understand that many of these very difficult cases need help and support but I get too involved emotionally and then I start spiralling down towards the black pit of despair. I do not have the ability to "shrug off" my over involvement, what doctors call "Clinical Distance".

So I stick to providing information to help people. That is what I can do. I am not much of a support person but I do what I can. Having crawled up out of the black pit, I will be darned if I will let someone pull me back into it.

^^ What you say strikes a chord with me. I'm actually not a very good comforter myself. I've already been schooled after reading responses made by empathic humans such as Jessica Merriman, Grace, Julie Blair - they are infinity better than I am at soothing the soul. I give them a ton of credit for being meticulously compassionate. I on the other hand need to move fast, I can't get stuck in all these emotional quagmires of despair that poka-dots susans like the holes in Swiss cheese.

I need to rise.

The only real thing I can offer the forum (while I'm here) is a more upbeat, alpha-trans like semblance to help give this place some guts. Because that's actually my personality. I'm competitive, and I want to conquer, and I want to roll with people who are just as go get 'em as I am. ;D

Quote from: stephaniec on August 19, 2014, 08:10:30 PM
please no  one take what I say in  a wrong or mean spirited way . I just   find it incredibly difficult to understand how some one who  had sought out advice on Susan's at some point and regardless of being  stealth or not  wouldn't want  to  simply tap the mouse. It's not like  taking a 3 day greyhound bus ride to visit  a relative you haven't seen since you were 5 years old I'm sorry no harm intended. I admit I could be missing some fundamental rationality

You know, I tend to agree with you Stephanie. I have found info, advice, compassion, empathy and help here and just a feeling of not being so alone. If I was to magically wake up in the morning as a full cis female (which ain't ever gonna happen, but anything is possible. It just ain't happened yet. :o) Intact with all my memories, I would still be here.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 26, 2014, 06:24:21 AM

The only real thing I can offer the forum (while I'm here) is a more upbeat, alpha-trans like semblance to help give this place some guts. Because that's actually my personality. I'm competitive, and I want to conquer, and I want to roll with people who are just as go get 'em as I am. ;D

And that's^^___^^ why we love you Evelyn! :eusa_dance:

I on the other hand, though an alpha female personality, am a good listener. I can offer also the wisdom I've gained through my past experiences to hopefully prefent others from going through some of the pitfalls and emotional horrors I have to get to where I am now. And, I'm very happy to do it. For I consider it paying forward the help and support given me when I needed it.

Ali :icon_flower:

One of the questions to myself was on this very subject and one of the questions I often ponder; which brings me to this most informative site where everyone shares their unique perspectives. I did not transition mentally from male to female because my childhood habits and desire to be a girl was never met with discouragement (except on one horrid occasion). I was raised with my sisters and one brother (10 of us total). Which I guess makes me mentally female from as far as I can remember. My physical transition began at 13 and it was right alongside my sisters. I still remember comparing our boobs growing (we would check alot). Unfortunately, small breasts run in my family. I remember they were all hoping mine would grow bigger since I was taking something to make them grow and one of my sister's taking my estrogen to see if her's would grow as well...haha... it does not work that way and it made her very sick. We still laugh about that to this day. My youngest sister was not aware of my situation until she was a little older and either my mom or my sisters explained it to her. I've got to make it a point to ask her.

I was in discussion with my husband about this very topic and he is well aware that surgery is in my future. So will I finally have a physical transition? He made an observation of me which rings true in my case and I will share it. He said "you'll have an alteration made to that part of you".   Hmmm..... alteration vs. transition. When I buy clothes that don't fit right, I get them altered to be fit me perfectly. I think alteration fits me better.

Thank you Evelyn for bringing this subject up :-) 

Quote from: Allyda on August 26, 2014, 02:11:21 PM
And that's^^___^^ why we love you Evelyn! :eusa_dance:

I on the other hand, though an alpha female personality, am a good listener. I can offer also the wisdom I've gained through my past experiences to hopefully prefent others from going through some of the pitfalls and emotional horrors I have to get to where I am now. And, I'm very happy to do it. For I consider it paying forward the help and support given me when I needed it.

Ali :icon_flower:

I think for me I'd rather detach myself a little somewhat. Been thinking about this tonight actually.

One thing I fear is becoming attached to someone who may end up being bad news or come into dire straits, opening me up to a lot of inner turmoil on how to help or not, and how far I'm willing to go. It's a two edged sword, ya knoa? I'd rather pick and flesh out my relationships in person and as local as possible.

My transition is going well, maybe I need to let it stay on autopilot for the time being and start concentrating on 'life'. Real life. Work, meeting people, professional organizations, self improvement, and yeah - lots of shopping. ;D You know me I have to mix the seriousness with some fun-n-games.

We're all anonymous people here for the most part. It might be therapeutic, but there is a whole 'REAL' world out there.

See ya's when i see ya's! ;D

For me it ends after i have my srs. I think i will still follow susans.org, to see how other people here managed their transition and if they do well. :)

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 01:30:20 AM
I've been thinking about this lately. Do you find that many successful transitioners eventually lose interest in the community? That life for them has moved on?

I've notice something in common with those who have undoubtedly been successful at transitioning. You never really hear much from them afterwards. Oh it's not a knock, it's just a feeling that I myself have been sensing within. That eventually even Evelyn might just fade into the woodwork.

If I had all my major tick boxes checked, would I really need support when I'm busy just living? And as you know, 'normal' life is quite busy in of itself.

Thoughts?

Yes I am one of them. I moved on a long time ago, but that doesn't mean that I don't care. It just means that I don't mind offering input and I also want others to know that there are people who have been successful, gone through the works and can successfully disappear into the world again.

The transition process was a roller coaster ride of a lifetime as I'm sure many other cat attest to, but the reality is on either side of the roller coaster (before and after the transition), life is quiet and dull. Okay so now I'm a woman. Great. Half of the population on earth are women, I'm just another one of them, running around and worrying about the same things other women do. It's called life.

When I did my transition I took my inspiration from those who were successful and hopefully by being here, other will know that it's not a dead end street but a path to a new and different life.

I do see some things that the transgender community does that I know I don't agree with with. I don't really feel like I need to be a pot stirrer if I disagree with some positions. I feel like I have a clearer line of sight into problems, but that doesn't mean I understand them or might be plagued with personal bias. So I stay out of it. Like the ridiculous fighting over that womyn music festival that I have watched every year for years. I chuckle because even if I received a gold plated VIP pass I wouldn't go. I just don't have any interest and frankly I just don't care. I don't feel connected to these struggles so why should I engage in them?

I hope that helps a little to understand my own perspective on the process and life afterwards.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 26, 2014, 06:24:21 AM
^^ What you say strikes a chord with me. I'm actually not a very good comforter myself. I've already been schooled after reading responses made by empathic humans such as Jessica Merriman, Grace, Julie Blair - they are infinity better than I am at soothing the soul. I give them a ton of credit for being meticulously compassionate. I on the other hand need to move fast, I can't get stuck in all these emotional quagmires of despair that poka-dots susans like the holes in Swiss cheese.

I need to rise.

The only real thing I can offer the forum (while I'm here) is a more upbeat, alpha-trans like semblance to help give this place some guts. Because that's actually my personality. I'm competitive, and I want to conquer, and I want to roll with people who are just as go get 'em as I am. ;D

Evelyn,
The day will surely come when you move along, maybe me too.  I hope that even then we continue to drop in now and then.  Knowing that there is a land beyond the rainbow is so very important to people just starting on this journey and for those in pain.  Thank you Zumbagirl, you are a blessing.

All I know for sure is that this is community, and that community takes people of many skills and proclivities to succeed. When you finally go forth into life full time, this forum will lose a foundation stone.  The depth and breadth of your creativity is staggering.  Either you have way to much time on your hands, or you are simply brilliant.  I lean towards believing the latter.

With deep appreciation I wish you peace,

Julie

Oh of course to each their own and I support everyone's decision for in the end, only you know what is right for you.

I could easily go Stealth after my SRS this December, hell, I could do it now especially now that I've found my voice -oopps, that was supposed to be a surprise on another thread, oh well {Ali sighs} to continue; it would be easy for me for I'm very computer literate to the point I know how to hide and/or erase tracks online plus, after my SRS I'm selling my current home in favor of moving back out west where I'm from. No one will know me where I'm going and I'm at an age where I could pass my lack of periods and inability to have children on a histo. Easily believable at my age.

However I just don't have any desire to. I'm very proud of what I've had to accomplish to get to where I am today, and I'm very proud to be a member of this wonderful community. I feel a sense of belonging for the very first time in my life here. I've made some fabulous and special friends here that I definitely want to stay in touch with plus as I've said earlier I want to pay forward the help this community has given me.

I suppose it boils down to personal preferences and of course need. And as we're all different in our own ways the diversity of answers here doesn't surprise me at all. And again I'm happy for everyone however you decide to live the rest of your lives. Zumbagirl says it best below:

Quote from: Zumbagirl on August 27, 2014, 08:19:52 AM
The transition process was a roller coaster ride of a lifetime as I'm sure many other can attest to, but the reality is on either side of the roller coaster (before and after the transition), life is quiet and dull. Okay so now I'm a woman. Great. Half of the population on earth are women, I'm just another one of them, running around and worrying about the same things other women do. It's called life.

In the reality that is my everyday life, I'm doing this^^____^^ now, just living my life. However I still have time for this community I love.

Peace everyone. :icon_bunch:
Ali :icon_flower:

Quote from: Allyda on August 27, 2014, 11:28:37 AM
Oh of course to each their own and I support everyone's decision for in the end, only you know what is right for you.

I could easily go Stealth after my SRS this December, hell, I could do it now especially now that I've found my voice -oopps, that was supposed to be a surprise on another thread, oh well {Ali sighs} to continue; it would be easy for me for I'm very computer literate to the point I know how to hide and/or erase tracks online plus, after my SRS I'm selling my current home in favor of moving back out west where I'm from. No one will know me where I'm going and I'm at an age where I could pass my lack of periods and inability to have children on a histo. Easily believable at my age.

However I just don't have any desire to. I'm very proud of what I've had to accomplish to get to where I am today, and I'm very proud to be a member of this wonderful community. I feel a sense of belonging for the very first time in my life here. I've made some fabulous and special friends here that I definitely want to stay in touch with plus as I've said earlier I want to pay forward the help this community has given me.

I suppose it boils down to personal preferences and of course need. And as we're all different in our own ways the diversity of answers here doesn't surprise me at all. And again I'm happy for everyone however you decide to live the rest of your lives. Zumbagirl says it best below:In the reality that is my everyday life, I'm doing this^^____^^ now, just living my life. However I still have time for this community I love.

Peace everyone. :icon_bunch:
Ali :icon_flower:

Hey sweetheart, coming my way? When - next spring?
Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 27, 2014, 12:02:34 PM
Hey sweetheart, coming my way? When - next spring?
Julie

I'm from California Julie, the High Sierras on my Reservation and I miss home. While I'm not going back to the Rez to live, I do wanna be in or near the high desert somewhere. I have other places in mind from Albuqurque New Mexico to San Fran to San Diego. I've already lived in LA.(Venice & Hollywood) and loved it there too.

I'll be making my move after my SRS this December and I'm healed enough to get on with the business of selling my current home and making the move. So next Spring at the latest. I think I already have a guy who wants to buy my home so that mat turn out easier than usual. At the moment I'm awaiting a call back from the hospital in Miami regarding scheduling and consults.

Where is it you live? I know you posted it once in another thread but I'm terrible with these things, lol!

Ali :icon_flower:

I'm in Seattle, but am not afraid to go where my friends are just to say hello.  Where are you now, somehow Florida rings a bell, but as with many things it is gone with the rest of my mind.

Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 27, 2014, 01:50:05 PM
I'm in Seattle, but am not afraid to go where my friends are just to say hello.  Where are you now, somehow Florida rings a bell, but as with many things it is gone with the rest of my mind.

Julie

Yea, right now I'm in Floral City Florida. It's about an hour and 45 minutes north of Downtown Tampa off I-75. It'd be nice to meet you Julie. Either the Wildwood or Bushnell Exit would get you here. When I move back out west I'll be a lot closer.

Ali :icon_flower:

I'm flying down to give Patty Magnuson a hug September 26.  I'm landing in West Palm Beach.  I don't know Florida from nothing, am I anywhere close?  I'm leaving early on the 28th.  I would be thrilled to get to see you.

Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 27, 2014, 02:03:13 PM
I'm flying down to give Patty Magnuson a hug September 26.  I'm landing in West Palm Beach.  I don't know Florida from nothing, am I anywhere close?  I'm leaving early on the 28th.  I would be thrilled to get to see you.

Julie

pm incoming, so the thread can get back on topic.

Ali :icon_flower:

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 27, 2014, 08:55:23 AM
Evelyn,
The day will surely come when you move along, maybe me too.  I hope that even then we continue to drop in now and then.  Knowing that there is a land beyond the rainbow is so very important to people just starting on this journey and for those in pain.  Thank you Zumbagirl, you are a blessing.

All I know for sure is that this is community, and that community takes people of many skills and proclivities to succeed. When you finally go forth into life full time, this forum will lose a foundation stone.  The depth and breadth of your creativity is staggering.  Either you have way to much time on your hands, or you are simply brilliant.  I lean towards believing the latter.

With deep appreciation I wish you peace,

Julie

I hace returned to reply because you Julie are so great.

Thank you Julie.

Also, nah. When and if I leave it'll be for good. There's a lot of hurt around these parts that have nothing to do with bluer sky's and what's over the rainbow. And it's constant. And it goes on and on and on.

It's toxic. Who wants to continuously drudge through this kind of stuff.

Welp. Not I. Sincerely.

Cheers.

"For you, when does or would the need for transitioning support end?"

I figure it's really better to get a move on now. I still have questions but upon reflection most of them may come off in a egocentric or triggering way.

I am very competitive to a fault. :-\ But I'm also pretty stimulated being that way. It's the root of my personal challenge successes. So it would be difficult to change.

I think this kind of competitiveness is better served elsewhere. Like vs. that CIS bitc* neighbor who thinks she's prettier. The gall! ;D

(Seriously, no troll. This is a permanent farewell. Evelyn bets her karma reputation on it yo! $1,000 to susans if I break it. ;D)

But it's been super fun. My transition is on cruise control. And I enjoyed my time here.

Cheers.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2Ffvwtow.jpg&hash=e38cb86db711ba0af284071dd0f743112157fdc7)

Good luck and best wishes to you Evelyn, hope you don't get too many black eyes in the days ahead. I know that you are a nice gal in spite of some of your snarky ways.

I think that for me the need for support will likely never end, but as my transition progresses the type of support I need will change. When I first came here, I was looking for confirmation that there were other people in the world just like me and I wasn't crazy for feeling the way I felt. I have been living full time for 11 months, have been on HRT for over 6 months now, and have legally changed my name and updated everything that my name is tied to. I haven't been misgendered in months. I am accepted by the world as a female and I am comfortable in my own skin for the first time in my 45 years on this planet.

Now comes the need for support for things like what do do when my breasts grow a full cup size in under a month. The ins and outs of surgery and the pitfalls to avoid. How to navigate the world as a middle aged woman. I also think I have reached a stage where I can be helpful and supportive of newcomers just like people were for me when I first got here. I don't think I will ever leave.  :)

Quote from: Shantel on August 29, 2014, 11:20:57 AM
Good luck and best wishes to you Evelyn, hope you don't get too many black eyes in the days ahead. I know that you are a nice gal in spite of some of your snarky ways.

What a lovely goodbye....

Darn i am going to miss Evelyn :(

Quote from: jname on September 04, 2014, 02:25:46 PM
What a lovely goodbye....

Darn i am going to miss Evelyn :(

Me too!

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 29, 2014, 08:06:56 AM
"For you, when does or would the need for transitioning support end?"

I figure it's really better to get a move on now. I still have questions but upon reflection most of them may come off in a egocentric or triggering way.

I am very competitive to a fault. :-\ But I'm also pretty stimulated being that way. It's the root of my personal challenge successes. So it would be difficult to change.

I think this kind of competitiveness is better served elsewhere. Like vs. that CIS bitc* neighbor who thinks she's prettier. The gall! ;D

(Seriously, no troll. This is a permanent farewell. Evelyn bets her karma reputation on it yo! $1,000 to susans if I break it. ;D)

But it's been super fun. My transition is on cruise control. And I enjoyed my time here.

Cheers.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2Ffvwtow.jpg&hash=e38cb86db711ba0af284071dd0f743112157fdc7)

So sorry to see you go Evelyn. Please know that I wish you my very best in all your endeavors.

It will be a little duller around here without you. I'll miss your interesting topics too.

Ally :icon_flower:

I'm sorry to be a late-comer to the thread.

As someone who did kind of drift away for a while, I can only say that I missed the social aspect of the forums. I've support through a local professional and friends, so there's no need for support. And for providing support... I don't know.

My transition is largely complete & successful, with only really GRS to go. But it's certainly had ups and downs, all of which taught me invaluable lessons... I can easily and honestly say that I'm a much stronger person on the other side, and am actually happy in my new life. And that was the goal...

Personally, I would love to be the proverbial hand for someone else to reach out to, but it seems like there are just so many others out there offering support, I'm not sure if I could even help. Just another voice in the crowd in terms of these forums :).

Certainly though, as life gets busier with children etc, I won't be here frequently.

Quote from: jname on September 04, 2014, 02:25:46 PM
What a lovely goodbye....

Darn i am going to miss Evelyn :(

I had noticed that she has been conspicuously absent the last week or so.  I had no idea she was leaving.  I guess that's why she started this thread.  I really enjoyed her snarky comments and quick wit.  :( 

Well I came back after a few years, but then I've been questioning whether or not I'm binary identified and have realised that I'm not. But as for support, I think as soon as you accept that you being trans is just a part of you and neither something to be ashamed of or something that makes you special, that you're ready to go it alone in the big bad world.

Warning - A bit of a rant here

Evelyn is snarky, inclined to write before she thought, and not politically correct at all.  In that context she was both loved and intensely disliked.  She challenged me to think, sometimes revise my assumptions, and become become stronger, better, and more agile.  I do not believe that she ever  intended to be disrespectful or particularly insulting to anyone and I do not believe that she ever intended to cause anyone harm.  That said, she was careless in some of her statements regarding men and trans men in particular which in the context of a support forum is at the very least dumb.  Her use of generalizations without explanation or qualification totally pissed off some folks, and not without cause.

But let's be clear, she did not leave, she felt driven out.

That troubles me.  It is OK to insist on respect.  It is OK to require courtesy.  But in my mind it is much better to be damn sure that I understand what was meant before leaping to anger and personal attack.  That did not happen with Evelyn.  Maybe with justification, I'm sure the angry felt justified, but I question their responses to a brash, quick, and very bright wit.  I hope I never respond to anything here with invective.  I hope this post is not taken that way.

I have had my sexuality, my gender identification, my very value challenged for my entire life.  My skin is pretty thick, but when it is broken I bleed.  I think Evelyn's skin was broken.  I very nearly called it a day here too, and was calmed down by a friend and mentor, but if we cannot be more tolerant and gentle with each other I will also go down the road.  There are many places and forums to be of service both in cyberspace and in the real world.  Susan's is a place for learning, empathy and growth.  But only one among many.  I adore the venue of the written word, I also need contact person to person.  I fill up on the former here, I fill up on the latter both here and elsewhere.  There is a difference between prima facie civility and empathetic understanding.  I strive for the latter as do most here.  I hope that people pause next time.

I wish us all peace,

Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on September 10, 2014, 10:07:55 AM
Warning - A bit of a rant here

Evelyn is snarky, inclined to write before she thought, and not politically correct at all.  In that context she was both loved and intensely disliked.  She challenged me to think, sometimes revise my assumptions, and become become stronger, better, and more agile.  I do not believe that she ever  intended to be disrespectful or particularly insulting to anyone and I do not believe that she ever intended to cause anyone harm.  That said, she was careless in some of her statements regarding men and trans men in particular which in the context of a support forum is at the very least dumb.  Her use of generalizations without explanation or qualification totally pissed off some folks, and not without cause.

But let's be clear, she did not leave, she felt driven out.

That troubles me.  It is OK to insist on respect.  It is OK to require courtesy.  But in my mind it is much better to be damn sure that I understand what was meant before leaping to anger and personal attack.  That did not happen with Evelyn.  Maybe with justification, I'm sure the angry felt justified, but I question their responses to a brash, quick, and very bright wit.  I hope I never respond to anything here with invective.  I hope this post is not taken that way.

I have had my sexuality, my gender identification, my very value challenged for my entire life.  My skin is pretty thick, but when it is broken I bleed.  I think Evelyn's skin was broken.  I very nearly called it a day here too, and was calmed down by a friend and mentor, but if we cannot be more tolerant and gentle with each other I will also go down the road.  There are many places and forums to be of service both in cyberspace and in the real world.  Susan's is a place for learning, empathy and growth.  But only one among many.  I adore the venue of the written word, I also need contact person to person.  I fill up on the former here, I fill up on the latter both here and elsewhere.  There is a difference between prima facie civility and empathetic understanding.  I strive for the latter as do most here.  I hope that people pause next time.

I wish us all peace,

Julie

Yes, yes a resounding yes to what Julie has said. Smiting and overreacting to someone's comments here is beyond childish. I get feelings about some things that I don't understand and can't wrap my mind around and rather then explode and have a tantrum I find that it's much better to move on to the next thread rather than insult someone.

Quote from: JulieBlair on September 10, 2014, 10:07:55 AM

But let's be clear, she did not leave, she felt driven out.

I'm speaking from experience when I say this, but the first time I used this forum, once I had completed my medical transition the kind of support I needed changed and I felt driven out, not because people were actively trying to get rid of me, but because my world view and needs were at odds with the vast majority of forum users. You do leave a lot of stuff behind, and it can be hard to relate to people just starting their journeys, especially as people tend to cycle through every few years and it can get tiring reading the same questions again and again. There's also the fact that a lot of post op people just want to get on with living life and being involved in the community is tiring, because being trans is not monolithic and people don't have the same lives and experiences.

She may be back, I came back though this is a different account and name to the one I used before. Though I'm in the process of figuring a few things out in regards to my gender identity. I actually find a lot of the chatter in the MtF forum tiring, but I'm not strictly speaking female - if it was all Susan's had to offer I'd feel very out of place and othered, which would result in me being driven out. Fortunately Susan's isn't just about the MtF experience so I feel welcome and I can share experiences that can benefit people.

I felt driven out, not because people were actively trying to get rid of me, but because my world view and needs were at odds with the vast majority of forum users. You do leave a lot of stuff behind, and it can be hard to relate to people just starting their journeys,

No forum is designed for eternity.  That goes for Susan's as well as any other venue.  I'm new enough that the angst of the newbie is something I can still relate to, but if this was just about MTF/FTM it wouldn't be something I could stay very enthusiastic about.  What I have found here are thoughtful people who address issues spiritual as well as existential.  This is an undercurrent in many of the forums and particularly in the non binary, and general discussion areas.

I think that for me it is important to remain in touch with earlier versions of Julie, and to be available and participatory while continuing to become something entirely new.  I appreciate it a lot when those who have walked further down the path, come back to add to my perspective, and to assure me that there is a land over the rainbow.

Thank You,

Julie

Julie : To be perfectly frank, I felt at times in this thread as if Evelyn were trying to drive away people like *me,* by suggesting that there had to be something wrong with someone who chose to stay long post-transition. Now, I'm pretty thick-skinned and I also was sure that wasn't actually her intention, but that feeling forces me to extend the benefit of the doubt to those who she feels drove her away. I think sometimes when feelings are running high, people get hurt easily and sometimes lash out; she was indeed snarky and sharp-tongued (and witty and interesting and contributed a lot, don't get me wrong) and that could sting people in sore spots.

Personally, though, I'll miss her.

Yep, she is all those things, even kind of bitchy and didn't let things go enough.  I am more concerned that as a community we eschew responses in anger or impatience.  I don't know anyone here who knows or even thinks they know everything.  I have sent more than one note asking someone to tone it down or help me understand.  If we are not generous to each other, how can we expect generosity in life?

I have been gifted with acceptance and appreciation at work and with the people (except for some in my family, and isn't that strange) I know and care about.  I think that if we fail to embrace and guide each other, that which is transcendent about this venue will not flourish.  I fear that we will be just another place where the standards, roles, and the modalities are defined and enforced.

Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on September 10, 2014, 12:49:16 PM
Yep, she is all those things, even kind of bitchy and didn't let things go enough.  I am more concerned that as a community we eschew responses in anger or impatience.  I don't know anyone here who knows or even thinks they know everything.  I have sent more than one note asking someone to tone it down or help me understand.  If we are not generous to each other, how can we expect generosity in life?

I have been gifted with acceptance and appreciation at work and with the people (except for some in my family, and isn't that strange) I know and care about.  I think that if we fail to embrace and guide each other, that which is transcendent about this venue will not flourish.  I fear that we will be just another place where the standards, roles, and the modalities are defined and enforced.

Julie

I so so much second this^^___^^ and everything you've said above Julie. Evelyn was a friend, and I was very sad to see her go, but I also understood her reasons. I have made a lot of friends here during my 1 year + now I've been a member. Unfortunately I've seen more than a few of them go. Also in hindsight this forum recently almost lost someone who has given so much of herself here it would have been a very sad day indeed had she left us. She too, is also a very good friend to me and many here, and she almost left for the same reasons -feeling pushed out.

We all must humble ourselves and become more tolerant of others. Yes I do belong to other forums but none of them have the warm feeling of family this one does. We all make mistakes and we all have our bad days. We just have to learn to be less judgemental and more supportive of our fellow members and be a little more lieniant of each others opinions. We're not always going to agree with one another, but we can always respect each other.

Best Wishes everyone. :icon_bunch:

Ally :icon_flower: