Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Three weeks ago I came home at 9:30 at night to my husband's statement "How would you feel if I started cross-dressing?" This was followed closely by an entire evening of him relaying all his research into transsexuals, courtesy of websites and a series of youtube videos he had watched. In three days, my husband decided that he was going to become a girl. This was what he'd always wanted, but had repressed from the time he was 8 (apparently after this revelation he remembered that he'd told his parents that he wanted to dress like a girl) until three weeks ago.

I understand that people are born the way they are, and that you can no more choose who you're sexually attracted to or what gender you identify as than you can change the color of your skin. However, what I find so enraging is that my husband of 4 years and the father of our 14 month old son lied to me over three years ago.

Long before we ever decided to start a family, my husband revealed to me that he occasionally (remember that word for later) fantasized about transforming into a girl while we were having sex. This was not a fetish I had ever heard of, but I'm a relatively open minded person so we talked about it as much as he was comfortable with. After being given this information, I asked my husband "Do you want to cross-dress?" and his answer was "No." We finished with the understanding that this was one of many fantasies that he entertained on his own and that was it (or so I thought).  When my husband announced that he intended to become a woman, he also revealed to me that pretty much all of his fantasies involved him transforming into a girl, but he hadn't wanted me to think he was weird so he had purposefully downplayed how important they were to him. He also told me that he hadn't even consider whether or not he wanted to cross-dress, the response of "No" was to keep me from thinking he was abnormal and leaving him.

Now I sit here, 70 lbs heavier, with a baby and shattered dreams of "the perfect family." The only job I know how to do not only does not provide enough income to take care of me and my child, but also lacks family-friendly hours. The kicker is that we, who could not afford to move into a bigger house next summer or purchase a different car that is more family oriented, now have an "extra" $500 a month for electrolysis for my husband. Because he's read that it's one of the most time consuming elements of the transition from male to female. His next bonus is going towards facial feminization surgery, without thought for what our son might need that year.

I feel sad, frustrated, betrayed and angry at my husband. Then ashamed for being angry at something my husband can't help being. Then angry with myself for not catching his brush off on this subject so many years ago. I'm hoping that someone on this forum can tell me it gets better with time, or easier with distance. Or something other than a giant pile of ashes that used to be my life.

Welcome to Susan's Adwen

I understand where you are coming from but he never lied to anyone more in all these years that he lied to his self.
You did not say the I can not live with a female phrase that so many say.
Is that something that is possible.
There are many SO here on the thread that will help you.
Just try and keep honest communication open and look forward to future then dwell on the past if all possible.
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Safe passage on your path
Izzy

Adwen, there is so much going on for you right now and I'm sorry for that and as difficult add it seems don't forget to take a step back and breathe. One of the most important things for you and your SO at the moment is open and honest communication, but the communication needs to be realistic. I couldn't imagine having come to the conclusion of transitioning in the span of a few days. Personally it has taken me 20 years of hiding/shame/depression/substance abuse, 3 months inpatient drug rehab, 1 admittance to the hospital in suicide watch, and 4 years of therapy to get to where I am now.

This isn't saying that every transsexual person's life needs to be a tragedy but things do need to be worked through. What it sounds like to me in my not professional at all opinion is that your SO is getting swept up in their newly discovered femininity and might need to tighten up the reigns just a bit. Are they seeing a qualified gender therapist? If not maybe that could be a great suggestion coming from you.

Quote from: Adwen on August 17, 2014, 11:59:35 PMThe only job I know how to do not only does not provide enough income to take care of me and my child, but also lacks family-friendly hours. The kicker is that we, who could not afford to move into a bigger house next summer or purchase a different car that is more family oriented, now have an "extra" $500 a month for electrolysis for my husband. Because he's read that it's one of the most time consuming elements of the transition from male to female. His next bonus is going towards facial feminization surgery, without thought for what our son might need that year.

I don't have any answers for you as far as your partner's gender goes, but this may be a concern you can deal with as a place to start. I have severe back and nerve problems from years of wearing compression shirts, but I haven't had chest surgery yet to achieve a typical male chest because it would cause us financial hardship. We could technically afford it, but we would have to stretch our funds beyond what is responsible, and that's without a child in the picture. Paying for expensive procedures like FFS and electrolysis at the expense of your family's financial well-being strikes me as terribly impulsive and irresponsible. Has your partner spoken with a psychologist about the possibility of having bipolar disorder? I have several loved ones with bipolar disorder, including my own partner, and sudden irresponsible and uncharacteristic spending habits raise huge red flags. To clarify, that would not explain your partner's feelings about gender, but it may explain some of this behavior.

Before your partner devotes so much time, energy and money to surgeries and other procedures, your partner needs to see a therapist who specializes in gender issues. This isn't something I would typically recommend self-diagnosing yourself with because of the severe consequences if the person is wrong. A therapist will be able to help your partner approach this responsibly and give you both the tools you need to keep your relationship strong. I am especially recommending a therapist because it sounds like your partner is being impulsive and not thinking clearly. This does happen sometimes after years of stress, but it can also be an indicator of something else.

*hugs*

It does get better in terms of coping once it's not all a giant pile of scary, unexpected, confusing things dumped on you all at once. (That's kind of common for coming-out moments, but trans people don't always realize that they've been working through this for a long time already, whereas SOs are starting from scratch in a state of shock.) I definitely agree that while you can't necessarily hold him responsible for what he *is* - the fact that he's trans - you CAN expect him to treat you with respect and act like an adult. Spending tons of money on things for himself when his new baby and his wife  have needs too is selfish and unreasonable. No wonder you're unhappy about that.

In addition, I like to say that you are not a bad person or a selfish one yourself if you can't deal with this; not everyone can. It doesn't mean you're bigoted or unsupportive, and don't listen to anyone who says a spouse who "truly loved someone" would stay in the relationship. Sometimes love has limits, whether we want it to or not. It *is* possible to have a happy marriage that survives transition and even thrives, but not everyone wants that... and for it to happen, he has to meet you halfway, which includes acting as if his marriage and baby are also priorities in his life. He needs to be willing to communicate, no more lies, and to work with you in determining how to integrate this transition into your lives.

(Incidentally, I'd also try to get a close look at your finances. Either that $500/month was there all along and you were being told the family couldn't afford things when you really could [and you need to ask what was up there], or it's not there now and he's planning to spend all of you into debt [and you need to be prepared].)

My wife transitioned five years ago; in the beginning, I was also angry, confused, seriously depressed, and generally a mess. One thing to keep in mind here is that you, too, get a free pass on what you FEEL; you shouldn't feel guilty for feeling unhappy and betrayed, because you can't control your emotions any more than he can control his need to transition.  You have a new baby and he just dropped a bomb on your life. It'd be a wonder if you *weren't* all over the place emotionally, and that's normal.

I'm so sorry that you found out this way, Adwen.  :(

Quite frankly, I think your husband should, at the very least, find some extra income to pay for electrolysis. And if he can only find $200 per month in extra work, well, then he only gets $200 worth of electrolysis per month.

That's what I'm doing. Like you, my wife and I have a four month old at home. We didn't have a lot of breathing room for extra expenses like electrolysis. So I made breathing room in our budget so that this part of my transition would not take anything away from my wife and my son.

Your husband also needs to work on how well he communicates with you. My wife knew that I was trans from the very beginning of our relationship. Believe me, I know how lucky I was, and I know how much the fear and shame of being trans can make it so very hard to come out, especially to one's spouse. That said, he has a responsibility to be open and honest with you. Marriages require trust, and this was a body blow to your trust in him. What is he going to do to earn back that trust?

I also second Declan: he needs to see a gender therapist. That should be priority number one in his transition. Clearing his beard can wait; he needs to clear his head first. In the end, it's his decision whether or not to see someone and talk out his feelings, but I think that it would be reasonable for you to request that he see someone who specializes in gender issues. (And, honestly, don't forget about your own mental health. This is a hell of a thing to go through. Don't hesitate to talk to someone if you need it.)

It's huge, scary at first, time consuming, and no, you are not alone.

The pace at which it starts does slow down eventually. I found it really hard to cope within the first month. The possibilities that are out there are exactly that. They are out there. They aren't for everybody and not all of them are necessarily feasible. The very first thing you've done by not running is the best you can start with. You both should sit down and talk. Start with support plans for both of you. Getting a better idea of how you want to proceed with the changes that come is vital.

We have 3 little ones, when the reveal came, my world dropped out. My brain went straight to worst case scenario and I can't even tell you about the endless hours I spent trying to wrap around how I was going to cope, how my kids were going to cope. No amount of time spent gave me solace or an answer.

I don't know if there is any question of what you're facing as there's so many degrees of transitioning? Has there been consultation with a gender therapist, or someone with experience with gender issues? Having asked a vital question prior to embarking on having a child and then being told the answers were downplayed as fear that you would leave, is well, difficult to reconcile. With some consultation there might be greater clarity for both of you as to which endpoint you may face.

All your feelings are more than perfectly valid. They're yours and you can vent here anytime. There's going to be a bit of time where you haven't got a support network as coming out is still forthcoming. Remember that you are not alone.

Thanks so much for all the responses. It really helps to know that there are others out there who have gone through a similar process. I actually insisted that the only way my son and I would continue to stay in our house is if he saw our therapist (there's one that's been visited by half of our family) once a week until he could find a specialist. He just had an appointment last Friday with someone that he thinks will work. Unfortunately, according to our therapist the specialist is "controversial." What this means I'm not quite clear on. I've also gotten him to promise to postpone making any plans for electrolysis until the end of September to make sure that he has at least a month of seeing a specialist before money starts pouring out.

One of the most disturbing results of his discovery about being TG is that either the stress, or his need to become a woman NOW, is highlighting some major flaws that until now were little quirks. Mostly it's showing up in our financial situation. My husband is an engineer, and extremely logical as long as it doesn't involve one of his "needs." But (I kid you not) he has never had to save for anything in his 30 years of life. His parents gave him whatever money he needed as a teenager, he had no job until he got out of college. In fact, he didn't even have to look for a job, he was recruited in his last month of college and started immediately after he graduated. He made enough money that as a bachelor he had no need to worry that he was overspending (a fact that made me extremely jealous when we first met because I have never had the pleasure of that experience). And we are comfortable enough that if a piece of electronics breaks, we can replace it without worrying about straining, so long as one doesn't break every month. Long story short, my husband doesn't even understand the basics of waiting until you have enough money to do something before doing it. If he wants it, then inside his head the money magically appears to make it happen.

All of this information leads to an observation I had today: my husband appears to be unraveling (in the reasoning department) quite swiftly. He actually told me that he found a place in Texas (which is halfway across the nation for us) that does expedited electrolysis. According to him, it will be "cheaper in the long run" if he gets everything done there, flying back and forth as necessary. I must admit, I had to count to about 300 to resist punching him in the face. We don't have the money to pay for any of this, and I've told him that. But he's not listening. Is this a common occurrence when someone realizes they're TG in adulthood, and they seem to come apart for a while? Or should I be seriously concerned that I'll wake up one day and find a plane ticket to Texas charged on his credit card? I can't imagine what the specialist would have to say about any of this, but since I have no idea what he's actually telling her, and she has no way of confirming the information he's giving her, I'm concerned that she's going to give him the wrong advice.

We have sat down and talked through many things pertaining to this and have sadly come to the conclusion that there's no way to maintain our marriage. He wants to become a woman and since he's told me he identifies as a woman, in my brain he is now just that, a woman. And since I'm not sexually attracted to women, and I feel a different kind of love with my close female friends, most of the bonds in our marriage fell apart. We're currently at the level of roommates. But I'm scared that if I do anything to try and keep him from anything he wants (even if it puts us into major debt), he'll just retaliate by trying to screw me in a divorce. Or he'll rack up tons of debt before I can get on top of the situation.

So today, my main emotion is scared. Scared that my husband may have become too deeply obsessed, and scared that if I do anything it will only make the situation worse.

Thanks for listening!

(((hugs)))

Adwen, it's okay to be scared. You are in an unbelievably difficult situation, and you're doing amazingly well. You're going to get through this, and so will your son.

The best piece of advice I can give you is to speak to an attorney, not necessarily to start divorce proceedings, but to learn about ways to protect your share of the assets for you and your son. It does sound like your husband is about to go on a spending spree and feels entitled to do so. He absolutely needs to take care of himself, but he cannot unduly burden you and your son in the process.

I think that, when someone finally decides to transition, there is a sense of relief and euphoria. One feels a need to make forward progress. There can also be an element of healthy selfishness, because many of us have spent our entire lives conforming to the wrong gender and making ourselves sick in the process, all to meet the expectations of society and those around us. Transition gives us a chance to reassert agency over how we interact with the rest of the world, and that indeed can be selfish in comparison to how things were before, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

That said, none of this is an excuse to behave poorly towards the people around us, and it certainly doesn't make us lose our ability to think logically. Your husband appears to have some underlying issues. They may be being made worse by the stress he is feeling about being trans, but they are independent issues, and if he doesn't work through them, they are still going to be there after he transitions. The impulsiveness and the selfish and controlling behavior with money (he's tight-fisted when you want to spend money on the family, but he's a spendthrift when it comes to spending money on himself, and your opinion seems to mean little in these financial decisions) will still be there. I hope for your and your son's sake, and his own sake, that he is introspective enough to work with his therapist to sort through these issues.

The electrologist to whom he is referring is probably Electrology 3000. They have a good reputation in the trans community, and your husband may be correct about going to them being more cost-effective in the long run, but that depends heavily on his travel costs. What is absolutely true is that going there requires spending a large chunk of money at one time, rather than in small increments as it would going to a local electrologist. If he hasn't, he should also consider laser, assuming he has darker beard hair (it doesn't work for people with blond or red beards). There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer here, but you are right to be concerned about the financial impact, because removing a beard, regardless of the method, is usually very expensive ($10000 is an easy possibility).

Finally, I don't know what your therapist means in saying that your husband's gender specialist is "controversal." One thing you should understand is that there are often few therapists in an area that specialize in gender issues, so your husband may not have a lot of choice in who he sees. It can be hard to find good healthcare providers when you are trans because of discrimination and because, while the medical community acknowledges the medical necessity of transition, this is a relatively recent phenomenon, and most providers do not have sufficient training to feel comfortable dealing with trans patients and their specific issues. So your husband's choice of therapist may not be a reflection on him, but on the choices available to him.

Adwen, sorry to hear that things are rough right now.  First of all, you're allowed to be angry and upset.

Playing Devil's advocate, don't treat this as your husband being deceptive.  Many of us are ashamed of our "secret" and will do anything to try to live a normal life.  Would it have been better if he told you this before you married him?  Sure.  But he, like me, may have gone into this marriage thinking that he could keep it hidden forever.  The unfortunate reality is that we realize - too late - that we can't hide what is a serious medical issue.

But that said, "coming out" does not relieve him of his primary responsibility to you and your children.  He is still a parent and spouse, and must act accordingly.  The fact that he is diverting much-needed funds from the family and to his transition bothers me.  Prescription costs and therapy, sure, that's a necessity.  Electrolysis?  Hmmmm.  If money is tight, he should use a razor until the family can afford it.  That's life.

Let the dust settle.  Your spouse should do the same; no major expenses until you've figured out how to move forward as a team.  If you're not on the same page and doing this together, it'll end badly.  But if you're trying hard to remain a couple, there's no reason you won't succeed.

I will keep it brief since I'm not the SO...

My partner (wife) has known about my trans issues in some form for 12 years, we've been together for 17 and have 3 kids oldest is 9.  Before you start guessing we were married young, so I'm not that old. ;-)

I started seeing a therapist 3 years ago and still have 2 years left in my social and medical transition which is significantly underway, probably 40% through it.  Family and friends know and I'm living as my authentic self at home and socially, but still have work to do and a career to manage through coming out.  Every month or so is something new, with some pauses but It doesn't have to be break neck speed, to hell with everyone else. Our relationship is stronger and better than ever and our family is thriving in large part because of honest communication and a communal spirit of cooperation. I took it as a responsibility of my own womanhood to transition with her, making her needs as important as mine.  I focused on my female spirit and personality in the early days to ensure I would be worthy of her partnership and in return she did the same for me. I'm going slower than most for other reasons too, and some just can't do it as slow, but simply put, transition can be for both of you, not just a selfish act for your partner only and if it works your partner must act with deep and abiding care for you and your child in a similar way you care for them. It's gotta be the act of love that gets you two through it, not just the words. 

I wish my best to you and I echo what others have said as well.

Adwen : If you're both sure you cannot stay married (and I'm very sorry to hear that), then my advice shifts to something different - he might not choose to be unfair to you in a divorce out of malice, but he's clearly thoughtless about money and considerations for other people when it comes to spending it. Right now, you each have to put yourself as your first priority, which means he's going to be taking all the money he can for what he wants; he now has basically zero reason to take you or the baby into account (and he wasn't really doing so even when he should have been regarding you and his child as his primary concern). You may want to find a way to lay aside a fair division of your assets in advance, because "he'll rack up tons of debt before I can get on top of the situation" seems ominously plausible.

I would further blueconstancy's post by saying at least have an informal meeting with a divorce attorney not because it's definitively over even if it may be but because talking about debts and assets is very much a legal concept highly impacted by the laws of your state.  I wish you, your spouse and your young child peace and serenity. I'm sorry you are in this position.

I am so sorry for what you are experiencing. I have gone through a lot of the same turmoil (with additional drama) over the past six months. My SO just changed his gender to female online. We are separated and I have initiated the divorce, too. I never in a million years would have imagined that this would happen to us. I'm going through FB and have like 5000 pictures of he (when she was he) and I, and I don't know if I should delete them or just hide them from the world. It's like my life up until now was never real--because it really wasn't.  I have read a couple of good books: "She's Not the Man I Married" and "Sex Changes: A Memoir of Marriage, Gender, and Moving On." At least they help to know that your story and experience are not the only one in the world. A lot of people are able to navigate this new ocean without a compass just fine, but I found myself drowning for months. It's ok that you know who you are and that this is not the life you want; it is also fine that your SO wants to follow a path that is apart from you. It just sucks. It's not your fault; it's not hers...it just is. I hope you can separate more amicably than my spouse and I are.

Again, thank you all for the continued support. Fortunately my husband and I were able to come up with an arrangement for finances so that he's not draining all our accounts but it's still hard to watch him take all that money for electrolysis. According to all the research he's done, electrolysis is a key part to passing, which is why it's so important to him that he start now, since his plan is to be out as a woman in approximately a year and a half. I think because this is still all so new, every time I think about him getting electrolysis, I think of how I'd love a spa treatment, but know I'm not going to get one and then I get a bit bitter. Hopefully that will pass as we adjust to the new "norm."

We did have an argument today, which is the main reason I'm writing this post, because he feels I'm failing in my "wifely duties." According to him, since he hasn't had a gender change yet, I should still be okay being intimate with him, kissing him and initiating hugs. From my perspective, he's lucky I didn't pack everything immediately and call the bitchiest divorce lawyer I could find. Instead I've been firm in my belief that he needs to explore his desire and tried to support it as much as anyone can when their whole world is changed. Now I'm not sure if I'm somehow a bad person because I'm not comfortable kissing him, much less being intimate. I don't mind hugging, since I hug all my girlfriends, but it still bothers him. Did others have the same reaction when they, or their SO, first came out?

Quote from: Adwen on August 23, 2014, 12:50:50 AM
We did have an argument today, which is the main reason I'm writing this post, because he feels I'm failing in my "wifely duties." According to him, since he hasn't had a gender change yet, I should still be okay being intimate with him, kissing him and initiating hugs. From my perspective, he's lucky I didn't pack everything immediately and call the bitchiest divorce lawyer I could find. Instead I've been firm in my belief that he needs to explore his desire and tried to support it as much as anyone can when their whole world is changed. Now I'm not sure if I'm somehow a bad person because I'm not comfortable kissing him, much less being intimate. I don't mind hugging, since I hug all my girlfriends, but it still bothers him. Did others have the same reaction when they, or their SO, first came out?

There's nothing wrong with you. The fact that you see your partner as a woman, pre-transition or not, and are reacting as such is something that should be a relief for your partner, not a frustration. If I were pre-transition and in a relationship with someone who was only attracted to women and felt comfortable being intimate with me because I wasn't a man yet in their eyes, I would be upset and angry. That's only my opinion, but I can't wrap my head around why that would be an issue. Others might feel differently.

Reading everything, I seem to keep noticing the lack of any Doctor's involved, or gender therapists, etc, which to my understanding should be the first steps in your husband and yourself understanding what's happening, certainly before any procedure is scheduled or done.?

As far as finances, children and family have to be taken care of, and neglecting those responsibilities seem a sign of a flawed plan by your husband.?
I'm so sorry all these things are happening to you, it must feel as though the whole world is crashing down around you.. Kindest wishes to your family, please keep us posted and always feel at ease sharing with everyone here.. Hugs

My head is exploding  :o

Full disclosure, I am married, I am an engineer, and I am trans. What I have been reading is so wrong on many levels. Which, in the spirit of full disclosure, to some degree I have been guilty of. My wife and I have been together one way or another for over 30 years. She always knew I was a CD, even knew of my early experiments with transitioning. Yet dropping the T-Bomb on her six years ago shattered her world far more than mine was. Many things were wrong in my life which I finally figured out why and need to fix. Not ignore or wishfull thinking like I have been doing since the age of five.

Today the relationship my wife and I have is the strongest it has ever been. THe real reason is very honest and open communication. Something I have been very poor at. Almost a self defense mechanism out of fear of being hated for what is truely inside of me. A relationship takes work. Hard work by BOTH parties. While we all have our ideas of a perfect life once you make a commitment with another person your goals are subject to compromises, every bit as much as you want the other to compromise in your favor.

An enduring relationship takes two people, not one, to compromise. Compromise with your partner. Harder still, compromising with yourself. Since only you can decide if what is being asked of you is worth what you gain in return.

There is a euphoria to madness that sometimes occurs once the genie is let out of the bottle. The deepest darkest secret of your life is out to the most important person in your world. The Earth did not open up and swallow you. A lightning bolt did not vaporize you. Hey, Nothing to stop me now. Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead.

Even as an un legally married person, my wife's feelings were of utmost importance. While she always knew I needed to cross-dress ocassionally to maintain some level of saneness, I also knew how deeply it effected her followed by us. Today is no different. What I need to do for the 'US' is just as important as for me. She is a major factor of my life.

There is an old adage that 99% of passing is attitude. I believe it to be true. While I had given up on my experiements at transitioning earlier because I felt I could never pass since I was 6ft tall, big boned, giant hands and feet, and deep voiced; I have achieved my lifelong dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Nothing changed except attitude. Which took a lot of working on myself as in TG support groups, self help books, even some therapy. Hard work that takes time. Especially hard and especially important when there are many other things that you value in your life and you define your sense of self by other than "I'm trans'. Like a career, your SO, kids, financial comitments, other promises, etc..

So far all I have seen is you giving in. You being out of the loop. You playing the part of 'A Beard' for now since it is best for your SO's short term plans. You being a victim, not a partner. Untill your spouse losses her job, you can make out great in a divorce. You have a short term Plan A (or B).

Your spouse is acting either like a misogynistic prick or a selfish bratty pre-teen girl in an (unfortunately) grown man's body.  Either way, neither is a recipe for a loving relationship.  I have *never* treated my partner like that (I'm the trans woman). I'm embarrassed by how your spouse is treating you. It doesn't have to be that way. God I'm pissed. Tell her to cook you food and do your laundry, after all that's *her* wifely duty. :rolleyes: Sheesh. 

sorry for the rant :-(

Wow.

The first thing I want to do is give you a hug.

In all honesty, I can understand your husbands behaviour to a certain extent. He's excited because he thinks he has figured out what's wrong with him.  He thinks he can fix himself in a certain timeframe, and now, with the goal in kind, the blinkers are on and everything else is secondary.

Everything has been planned, key points in the calendar set, and it'll all be over at month 24.

Except the reality isn't like that.  Sorting the mind out through therapy takes time.  It will take time to get approval for HRT.  And although FFS doesn't require letters, the surgeons will want to be sure that they are really going to help you by operating.

None of this abrogates his obligation to you and your child.  There is more than one person at stake here, and that needs to be recognised.

The point is, time is needed.  Time for him to make sure he's going down the right path.  Time for the two of you to sort out the relationship.  And time for you both to accept the changes that will happen.

For the past few days, my husband has been very depressed. From what I can tell, it's due to the lack of progress on becoming a woman. I'm sure this is common (since people like to achieve goals as soon as possible) but what I'm not sure about is how to help. It gets more complicated because according to his "specialist" he's classified with  ->-bleeped-<-, which apparently means he doesn't feel he's a woman in a man's body, but is very driven/attracted to being a woman. According to this specialist, he won't feel like putting on women's clothing or wearing makeup until he's on hormones and after the FFS, when he looks much more like a woman. This confuses me because he feels that until he makes this change, calling him a woman is ridiculous, which is apparently why we should continue to treat our marriage as if it is a traditional one right now. But to me if you want to be a woman, then you are a woman. I don't understand how you can want to be a woman but still consider yourself to be a man, and I certainly don't know how to interact him if this is the case.

On top of that the specialist he's seeing has (as far as I know) no credentials in counseling. She's an anesthesiologist and a Dr. in Sexology (is that seriously even a Ph.D. that legit schools give?) but that's it. So how is she supposed to guide him through all the emotional issues which are probably a huge portion of this change? My husband has only told one friend about this, who has admitted to my husband that he has no idea how to help other than being a sympathetic ear. My husband refuses to go to any support groups because "he doesn't find groups helpful," and I was only recently able to convince him to start posting on a forum somewhere, just to get some support. Right now, his only support is from me, and my priorities are our child first, and then trying to navigate through this myself. Add in the fact that I haven't the first clue as to how to help him through this transition other than to tell him to find other people who have already gone through the process and I'm hopelessly confused.

As I think had been said before there is no one size fits all.

If your spouse want some real help and you wish to be supporting find some professional that knows how to deal with gender issues.

I feel you are struggling. You should also find some help dealing. For your marriage and child.

Hugs.

Adwen,

The autogyno ting is a joke and not really recognized by most. He needs to find a different therapist.
starting hormones is not when you start to feel like wearing women's clothes or makeup. It may enhance that feeling or even remove it for that matter.

Adwen, if your SO's therapist's initials are "AL", it's time for them to run away screaming NOW.  This person has no business working with transgender patients and has theories that have been largely discredited.   

Adwen,

I would agree with the others.  Most people disagree with autogyno as anything valid - plenty of flame wars on the net on this one.  If Jill is right - find another person.

It's not a good sign that rather than clearing things, things are being even more muddled.

Good luck!

Adwen

Your situation is very similar to that which many of us have experienced.  At this stage, as many have said, the most critical need is for your husband is to see a gender therapist.  Until they do this, and start to understand their identity they really are not in a position to think or to communicate clearly.

Many of us have been so overwhelmed by dysphoria that when we first sense that we are trans* there is an immediate temptation to believe that we have found the reason for our discomfort and stress, and 'the cure'.  It is rarely this simple.  First we need help to ensure that there is not another issue that needs to be dealt with, then we need to understand, explore, accept and to learn to express our identity.  The thing is,  there are as many identities as there are folk.  Many see this as a spectrum of identity from fully binary M through non binary to fully binary F. 

Determining where they are, whether they are fixed or fluid, whether they need medical or non medical therapy takes time.  It is a journey.  The path can take surprising twists and turns.  I thought that I was mtf, had ffs almost immediately, started transition levels of hrt and dressed as often as I could ...  but I became increasingly discomfited and less enamoured with the whole 'performance' of trying to 'pass'.  With hrt removing my dysphoria and enriching my life, I realised that I had found my sweet spot without a binary transition. 

This has been a difficult and often stressful trip for my spouse, my family and myself.  But now, following beard removal which has taken significant time and money, and a more andro presentation, we are in a very good place.  I feel authentic, I have found myself and we have found each other.

My message is, please try to talk with each other, share your fears, discuss the possibilities and agree to be honest and open.  There will be times when either of you may not truly know where you really are, or are just processing your feelings, but this is ok, just be honest.  The future of your child and the possibility of family and a positive, ongoing relationship, married or not, should be reason enough to find a good gender therapist and the best path forward.

Safe travels

Aisla

Haha. Her initials are indeed A.L. and I couldn't pry my husband away from her even with a crowbar right now. He's read her "textbook" and apparently it describes everything he's thinking/feeling so from what I can tell he thinks she's some kind of godsend. He researched her before going to see her, and even with the iffy online opinion and disapproving review from both my therapist and my psychiatrist he still set up a meeting with her. My husband tends to disregard my opinion on things anyway (he's a bit egocentric) so I know it will only alienate him to argue about whether A.L. is a good choice. One of his complaints is that people who focus more on gender issues are at least a 20 min drive from our house. Apparently he doesn't understand that they're called "specialists" for a reason.

I'm starting to ask around for a good gender therapist for me to see for a few sessions, just to get a better handle on how I can help both my husband and my son adjust in the coming months. Perhaps they'll also have a way for me to wade through all this confusion that meeting with A.L. has thrown into our lives.

On a happier note, for people who like either a cappella or Daft Punk (or both!) check out Pentatonix's daft punk medley on YouTube. It's my son's favorite right now. At 14 months apparently their only form of dancing is to sway like a metronome but it's still cute to watch him get so into music.

Adwen,

Sorry to hear that.  It's awkward - he's looked up dr google, self diagnosed, and gone to see the only person who only gives out one diagnosis, to confirm his own diagnosis. Self affirmiing.  Unfortunately, in my experience there is no reasoning with that so you're stuck with that for the time being.

You have my sympathies.  Just be there.  You're doing the right thing by preparing yourself by seeing someone more specialised.  Insist on seeing the therapist you find as a couple.  It'll help you work out whether or not there is hope for the marriage, and if there isn't, at least be able to part amicably.

And have someone ready to help you legally, I feel things could got either way.

Adwen, I was just curious, and by no means do you have to answer this, because it will alter as things progress, but what would your choice of action be if he goes and gets everything done?

Does he understand what you are planning for yourself once he gets underway?

I didn't post before because I was angry that you've been put in this situation, and though what I had to say might've been a pragmatic choice, it wouldn't have been kind. First comes the good stuff: as a mom, you do the things that need to be done for your sweet boy and yourself to ensure you will both be safe, fed, and housed. You're doing an awesome job so far and kudos for being brave with dealing with all the other stuff while being a new mom!

Next part is the pragmatic stuff: get hold of a lawyer and talk to your bank about what you need done now and what you plan to need for the future. He wants to go ahead with or without you but to drag you and little man in financially? Nu-uh.

He needs to see a certified therapist. I'm not sure that you can go without either. It's hard enough being a new mom, add in this and it's a tough lot. You might get more networking for gender specialists that way too. Perhaps your own therapist might give a certified name some credence he might follow?

Last of all is again to see a lawyer about what you want legally for your little man and yourself in the future if you plan to separate/divorce. (Here's the angry bit: he wants you to fufill wifely duties, then he'll have to figure out what those are. As far as I can see, we live in the 21st century and it's pretty darn equal. Having marital relations with him as a man since his body is still physically one is NOT a duty. If you regard him as a woman now because that's what he wants, you may have an educational moment with him regarding sexual orientation.)

It's a lot easier to sit and spout because I'm not emotionally invested in your relationship, but from one mom to another, your husband currently needs a swift boot to his ass. He's not behaving like a responsible adult in a committed relationship with a child involved. All I can say is that I would have lost my patience by now and probably just left him to his own devices. Support when and how you can, not at tg

Oops! Not at the cost to your son or yourself! (Stupid phone cut me off!) Good luck Adwen!

I think you are handling this really well.  You do need to think of yourself and you both need to think of the baby.  The everything now thing is normal,  but wrong.  You should get him/her to join here. 
From what you say, your understanding is more in line e with current theory than your so's. If I hear autogynaphilia is rings alarm bells, and it likely will with anyone who has anything to do with trans people in the last years.

Your partner needs to understand how lucky he is to have an so who is working with them and foster that as it's much more important to a successful transition than super quick electro.

Good for you for being so well balanced in your thinking.  Have you thought about suggesting that, considering the potential for a turbulent  start financially to the babies life,  that a savings account be made specifically for the baby so that the baby can be provided for regardless of what happens?

I would. I imagine, it would be hard for him/her to categorise that as less important than electro.

Good luck and hugs. 

Kira x

I hear a whole lot of self diagnosing here. I got a lot of that from my wife, as well as from myself. My typical response if I am asked if I know something about X is to say just enough to get myself into deep doggy do-do.

Decades ago during my previous transition attempts I felt like your SO. Who needs groups? They aren't for me. Therapy? Nah, not me. I know I am a ____. No other excuse like access since I lived 2 miles from midtown Manhattan. I guess that is why they turned out to be attempts.

Seven years ago when I was totally desperate about my life in general and rationalized a lot of the root causes for my troubles were how I was Not handling being trans I sought out help. This time the closest sort of help in the form of a TG group was 90 miles away. That first meeting floored me. This all knowing smart ass engineer was rocked to her foundations being in living room filled with others whose life stories, and especially deep scary feelings, were much like mine. Two meetings latter I knew I needed to be there.

Part of this process was also finding at least a TG friendly therapist in short of a 2 1/2 hour drive. All I needed since transition was the furthest thing on my wish list. I can assure you and your SO there is a world of difference between a generalist and a gender specialist. I have to say none of them will work for anyone unless you really want help.

Marriage is a partnership. BOTH of you are (or should be) piloting that ship. While it is nice to think you are in charge of your own lives, you only are to the extent that you remain on that ship together. Once one goes over the side there is only so much the other can do to them back on board. The best approach is to keep from going overboard by working together, protecting each other. My wife and I have both done things the other suggested that we weren't initially thrilled to do. Sometimes, sure, it worked out, other times not so. The not so good consequence of fulfilling the others request is a small price compared to that of totally dismissing their feelings, opinion, wishes, etc.. Essentially dismissing them as important to you.

However, without going into anything different without an open mind will likely end with the much hoped for failed result. I don't hear any I'm willing to see, I don't know for sure, I wish there was another way from your SO, only from you. (Or, should that be room-mate since that appears to be the real relationship from the other sides viewpoint?)

Perhaps, as some others suggested, a little reality therapy is needed?

Adwen - I just want to say that you are doing an amazing job coping with this situation. Your son is very lucky to have a mother like you.

Yes I'm glad one of my son's parents is keeping it together enough to take care of him. I don't know if this is part of the "selfishness" that comes with the new discovery and subsequent introspection, but my husband actually FORGOT that we had a child a couple days ago. I'm not kidding.

My husband had just finished feeding our son dinner, and had handed him his sippy cup of milk. I had "Chuck" ready to watch on the couch (our son normally sits with us to drink his milk) and my husband sat down. He said "Alright let's go." When I just stared at him, my husband asked "What?" and I replied "Didn't you forget something?" He looked confused so I elaborated with "Our son's supposed to be sitting with us." Then my husband said "Oh yeah, I forgot about him." Our son was THREE feet away from my husband, IN eyesight sitting the highchair my husband had just passed by. There are toys strewn all about our living room floor in front of the TV. How on earth could anyone forget about the existence child under those circumstances?!

As I stared at my husband in disbelief, he said "What? Men don't constantly think about their children. Only mothers do that." I can't believe that there are many fathers our there who forget about their children while they're sitting right in front of them. At work, sure I could see that. If he's hanging out with his friends, maybe.

So, all you SO's out there: is this level of self-involvement to be expected for the next couple of months or is something seriously wrong?

I had no idea AL was still practicing. She is indeed a dangerous, misinformed quack with no actual credentials in this regard (and I believe she is unlicensed as well).

As for forgetting your son... if your spouse wants to BE a mother, perhaps they should consider taking that into account?! This sounds like wanting to have one's cake and eat it too; she's a woman unless being a "father" gives him an excuse when it comes to caring for your family.

Jenna's got the gist of it. Really, the self-involvement and lack of consideration seems to be normal. Mine still has the moments where the whole lot of us are ignored. There are 4 of us that are forgotten and I get angry and resentful. I think it's part of the "wiring"? I don't know. I'm very biased on this issue and today happened to have one of those moments so I'm a little grumpy.

some men and some women are simply born as selfish pricks who will never even wonder what the meaning of the word "consideration" might be.

it's not normal for a parent to completely forget about their child. both men and women still do though. quite interesting. very tragic.
do note that it's not only men who don't care enough about their children. women can be just as bad, and the only reason more women are stuck with a child whom they end up neglecting or abusing in other ways, is that they are the ones who give birth, and this means that a whole lot of fathers manage to run away long before the child is born.
my mother left my two oldest brothers when they were very young, because of some new obsession she'd found in the form of a man.
my oldest brother is now honest enough to say that if he ever got the opportunity of his life, and this required him to travel too far away to have his children visit often, he'd leave.
it's not a normal thing in the sense that most people do it, but it's not uncommon to throw away one's family for an obsession.

i told my daughter's father to either pull himself together or get lost when he forgot his daughter's visit (she was too young to remember, luckily). he decided to disappear completely for three years. his problem had nothing to do with being transgender though. he just grew up completely spoiled, and also quite damaged.
the reason i told the guy to scram, was that he was acting too irresponsibly, and i did not want my daughter to experience arriving at her father's house just to see that nobody is home. it was a good choice, for his irresponsibility has not changed, but at least my daughter only remembers him as a nice guy who bought her lots of toys. she wishes he cared enough to not disappear again, and maybe even yell at her for being a bad girl, but at least she hasn't experienced betrayal. being betrayed by one's own parent is an extremely damaging thing to a child.

anyway. you are the only one who knows your situation completely. if your husband is selfish, get legal advice in case a divorce becomes necessary.
seeing a therapist sounds like a good choice. you might need one more than you know right now.

and do what any good parent would do. protect your child at any cost. losing a husband, if it comes to that, is better than the child growing up miserable.


also take a look around these forums. there are lots of guys here who have gone through transition, while still doing their utmost to take care of their children.
i don't think any of them would say it's normal for a father to happen to forget their child, even when obsessing over transition.
those who forget don't do it because they're a father, or trans. they're simply being selfish.

Hey Adwen,

I commend you on your emotional strength. You sound like an amazing mother and a great person. I feel for you in a way that most people cannot. A lot of your story rings very true to my own... but I play the role of the villain (husband). While it sounds like there are many differences between your husband and me, there are an uncanny number of similarities.

I have been fighting my feelings since I was 11 years old (now 33). My wife knew that I was cross dressing by our third date. Fast forward to 3 years ago (Married 6 years) and I felt like I could not fight the urge to transition anymore. My wife and I were in a bad place and I (at the time) believed I choked it down for our marriage. I now believe it was out of fear of the transition, not love of our marriage. I waved it off as a sexual fetish to my wife and myself and moved on. In November last year the feelings came back so strong it was like a tidal wave crashed over me. My newborn son was 8 months old. I told my wife "So I think I want to transition". Literally in that way. I rocked her world, again. I did it without thinking about her reaction or how any of it could affect my family. My wife told me she couldn't be with me if I transitioned.

I immediately decided to go to counselling and she was very supportive. It was never enough for me though. I would always harp at her for not supporting me in way X or way Y. I started laser therapy. I bought clothes and started dressing most of the time at home. I attended support groups and occasionally stayed out late at clubs. Money wasn't really an issue because we both have good paying jobs, even while she was on maternity leave. Through it all she supported me, all while being at home full time raising our new baby. It was never enough for me. It was about moving forward. It was about the ecstasy of the new experience.

Things started getting really rocky. We fought and the trust and respect for each other started to fade. When we were at or worst, we would talk lucidly about divorce. About separation of assets and liabilities. It was at this point I started realizing that without my wife I was free to move forward with my plan unhindered. I thought if we were not married, I could fully transition and that voice in the back of my head would finally be satisfied.

Then the most shocking thing happened. After having a conversation about what would happen after we divorced, I told her I would likely transition. We talked a bit about it and I mentioned I had no desire for bottom surgery. That night she came to see me crying at 4 am. She said she would stay with me if I transitioned as long as I didn't get bottom surgery. She had no idea that was what I was thinking when I said transition. I was ecstatic! It was like a dream come true.

We worked on our relationship. It was good for a few weeks, maybe a month. It started to come crashing down again. I had wanted to go to marital therapy together again and work on the marriage, but she didn't. I later found out that she thought I was talking about my transgender therapist for counselling. We crumbled more and finally we broke.

We obviously had issues in our marriage well beyond the trans stuff, it was just the spark that lit the powder keg. Ultimately I feel that my wife and I could not and should not stay together because I was too selfish and walked all over her. We also had very opposite personalities, we had little in common, we had poor communication, I was in denial (and probably still am) about my sexual desires and we both wanted very different lives. I will point out that while there were times when I would have my wife watch my son so I could go out and do my TG activities, but I never ignored him like your husband did. He is the most precious thing on this planet and the love of my life. It is the one fact that she will agree on, I am a good father.

Since I started hormones a few months ago, the urgency and the fog clouding my mind has cleared. I have had great conversations (with many tears) with family about who I am. I realize how selfish I am/was and struggle every day to put the needs of the important people in my life above my own, especially my son and my soon to be ex-wife. I have a long hard road ahead, but I want to be a better person no matter what physical form that may take.

---

I wish I had a quick fix or helpful advice for you Adwen, but sadly if he is anything like how I was, you do not have an easy time ahead. It is likely that no matter what you do, it will not be good enough for him. In his mind, the world revolves around him, like he is real and everyone else is just manifestations conjured up by his own mind. It is almost a form of king syndrome, where he is just destined to have good things happen to him all the time and that hardship is something for everyone else. It is likely that he does not even think about how you might be feeling, not as if your thoughts or feelings are irrelevant to him (I am sure he cares about you), but that he cannot even conceive that you would think something other that what he is. To his mind, what he says is so logical that it is ludicrous to think otherwise. That is how I often felt and if he is as similar to me as he seems, he likely has these same core characteristics, regardless pf whether he is fully aware of them or not.

I fear that your only hope is to find a way to break through to him on an emotional level about how you truly feel and what is going on in your own head. How you might feel betrayed by his disregard for you and your son. If he can see the pain and anguish this is causing you, maybe he will snap out of it long enough for you both to start counselling. Its a long shot, but have him read your post and mine. Maybe a lot of what I am saying will resonate with him? If he cannot find a way to control his selfish impulses and widen his tunnel vision, it will only end the same way as it did for me. This doesn't mean he has to stop what he is doing, simply slow down and do it all as a family. Have an honest talk with him, because it is possible he is already starting to think how I did about divorce and the freedom it will give him to pursue his goals unhindered.

I apologize from the bottom of my heart for the way he is treating you and what you are going through. I am sorry that good, strong, caring people like you and my wife have to endure the pain and emotional suffering caused by those of us who are too blind to see what is in front of them. Know that if I could go back and do it all over again, my desire to transition would not change, but I sure as hell would have done everything I could to change the way I acted and make sure my wife had all the support and respect she deserved.

If you ever want to ask me questions or simply talk more about what your husband might be thinking, please do not hesitate to PM me. Your story hit very close to home with me and I would love nothing more than to see you two succeed where I failed. Best of luck Adwen, know that you have the support of all the amazing people here on this forum and that you are not alone. Most of all, know that people can chance if they truly want to so there is always hope.

Interesting he referred to himself as a man in defense when your son was drinking his milk.... I'd never do that, I don't even think of myself like that anymore...
      There are so many details shrouded in shadows still it's impossible for anyone to see the overall picture here. I would need a spreadsheet of all expenses and income to render advice on spending other that it comes across odd to hear you compare electrolysis treatments to a spa day in light of the fact that you appear otherwise rather supportive of him despite this overwhelming tornado of a situation in your marriage. If he's an engineer I'd assume $500 per month for something this important wouldn't be too difficult to find. That kind of career usually allows for plenty of surplus finances provided you are frugal and live well within your means.
      I'm sure if he just gave him dinner he didn't forget his existence, and he would have transferred him to the sofa after several whimpers of disatisfaction on your sons behalf if you had let it play out. "Oh I forgot about him" wasn't a literal statement. Unless the child had been sitting there without interaction from your husband for 20 minutes or something, then I could see your point.
     The idea that your husband doesn't want to experiment with makeup is baffling, and more troubling that he's guided by someone that claims he needs HRT to desire that. The opposite is usually true, this quak surely needs to go...
     Sounds like you and your husband both are way too isolated in this situation and you both are hurting from the loss of support in your lives, maybe it would help to find a group to go to yourself even if he remains a stubborn ass and refuses the comfort of surrounding himself with other people.
     

Hi Adwen,

Chances are good your SO is gone.  I am sorry.  I think it's possible to flip your orientation but with your son in the picture your chances are so remotely slim I would be thinking longer term without your SO remaining as your spouse.  You are at the peek of embracing your femininity as a mother and a woman and your mom/dad roles will just keep annoying your SO more and more with each passing day.  That is the reality of being transgendered. We are female on the inside but have been socialized male making for a crazy very complex situation. 

Your SO is angry and he's going to lash out UNLESS you totally treat like a woman.  That is the secret to defusing her.  Come to terms with the pronouns as well.  This will really set your SO on her heels.  The idea is to slow her down a little and get her feeling what it's like to be related to as a woman.  It will freak her out and get her into therapy pronto I guarantee it.   Yes she is going to be selfish and spend money.  Just ride this out.  He can't spend to terribly much while starting transition.  Some clothes, some electrolysis, therapy really who cares.  Think long term big picture.  The divorce will have him paying dearly for many years.  The opportunity lies in how you treat her now.  You can either live for being friends and choose peace or you can choose bitterness.  Take it from me life is to short.  You have about 18 months to connect with your SO.  Doing so will spare you so much pain.  The other option is you can't force yourself to go this route.  This route is a living hell.  Trust me.  Treat her like a woman and get some really good therapy yourself.  Everyone will be fine in the long run and you'll find that man of your dreams sooner than you realize.

One last piece of advice.  Don't keep playing the victim card.  Your SO didn't sig up for her birth defect anymore than you did all of this.  It's a tragedy all the way around.  Good luck to you and your SO.