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So I got thinking about whether or not looking at our photos on the "Do I pass" thread  is really all that healthy, as well as why do some of us get so down when we look at it. Is it like a contest in our minds or are we seeking validation for something that is not essential at this point in time where many of us are not even on HRT yet?

What do we think.

Because sadly yesterday I looked at my photos on the "Do I past thread" and they made me feel ill inside, then I read on and seen a lot of feed back for other people and nothing helpful for mine. So in a moment of stupidity and absolute depression I got a hair cut and lost 80% of the length of my hair in the process, and gave away all my feminine clothing to the salvation army. Now I am heaps sad, to the point I have been crying for an hour straight and now as I type. On top of that I feel really anxious because I look even more like a guy than ever
:(

Still I guess we have to keep trying and a side effect I suppose of being dysphonic is the ups and downs. I just wish I had not looked at that thread.

So with my little rant and woe is me moment concluded, I shall retreat to my room and have a nap.

That thread is full of tablespoon fulls of sugared "Yes you pass."

I personally can't stand what that thread represents.

Meh....I don't let it bother me. I look how I look and that's all there is to it. I don't waste my time comparing myself to other people.

Yes. Threads like that have the potential to be detrimental. The more you seek validation from others the less you expect it from yourself. At its best though, the thread encourages people who need some outside validation and offers helpful guidance to those who seek it. That's just how I see it.

I'm sorry you went through that turmoil. Next time you feel the urge to purge, sleep on it. Best advice I ever received. 

I got good boosts of confidence from that thread. The other picture threads as well. So I think they do good, not harm.

Well, even know people say "be honest" it could still easily be false confidence.. I don't think we necessarily lie on those threads but we just stretch the truth a bit. Turn a "eh, yea. You pass" into a "omg you are gorgeous I am so jealous". This, probably, is bad for you... False confidence isn't ideal.

300 reply thread about this very topic

Topic: Yes, you pass. Ummm, no you don't.  (Read 21797 times)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,112374.0.html

The photo threads are for people who are lacking self-confidence and need that extra boost of encouragement to get out the door for the first time if they're still closeted. I was closeted for a LONG time, so I needed those threads a lot to get me through my constant stream of rough days.

Once you go full-time, though, and start dealing with people's real-life reactions outside of trans spaces, the thread becomes obsolete, because it will become apparent VERY quickly whether you pass or not, based on how people gender you and whether they include you in gender-specific conversations or not.

That is what I see the vanity threads as being for... for reaching out to those who are early in transition and giving them some extra confidence of both "see? I did it. You can do it too," as well as either "you look fine, get out there and live your life" or "here's what you can do to pass better."

I tend to agree, however I look at it from both perspectives as there are those who pass easily and those like myself who look like a man in a dress with little to no hope without a lot of surgery. Does this make me a bad person for saying it. Yes, because it comes of as negative on my part. However, in retrospect I categorise myself as being -very- unpassable as I am not attractive in any shape or form.

However for those who do pass or will pass it is a great place to get a confidence booster. Perhaps I have a negative view of myself and it is apparent. Perhaps it is my dysphoria over ruling my capacity to be rational here and be subjective.  Although what I do know is that it invoked a lot of feelings and created a lot of false perceptions leaving me and others I spoke to in PMs feeling discombobulated, confused and dejected.

Again sorry for being negative I just wanted to air this and see if others felt the same at times.

I've never actually had a look at that thread but this thread prompted me to find your post and have a look :)
My honest opinion; you have good potential in the face I think (although it would be good to have some clearer photo's), you seem to have a very compact chin and jaw, and don't look to have a strong male type brow etc. Nice eyes too :) So that's all in your favour :)
As for your body, its harder to tell (due to photo clarity) but some more weight loss and HRT will certainly improve things, it's a little hard to judge your bone structure from those pics. I think you could end up pretty passable with time, hormones and maybe some surgery :)
At least you're shorter than me! (I'm 6'1") and if you don't agree, well I'm a Kiwi girl and we're not supposed to agree on anything lol.

Take care ok, big hug from me, and the rest of us I'm sure :) Claire

I'm not really a fan of those threads, although I have been known to post in them from time to time - mostly to see if the opinions around here match my reality.. And, here's the shocker, they don't. There also seems to be a clique in many of them, be part of it, comments galore, you've seen what happens when you are not part of it.

As to whether they are unhealthy? That's going to depend entirely on the individual. If I'd listened to the 'helpful advice' I was given in a 'Will I pass?' thread back when I started, I'd still be hiding in a closet. I got told I'd need all kinds of facial surgeries. Glad I didn't listen, turns out I didn't /need/ any of it. Would I look more fem with it? Yeah, sure.. But I didn't need it to meet my aims.

I don't think those threads should be one's stopping point for validation. Go out in the world, live your life and see how it treats you - you'll soon know if things are working or you need to make some changes..

If I can lurk around the western and northern suburbs of Adelaide, not cop any crap and be gendered correctly, something must be working for me..

I think a lot of the problems with the "Do I or could I pass?" thread could be solved by just making it the "Could I pass?" thread. Most of us already know the answer to the question of "Do I pass?", and I think that people who are just looking for a confidence boost would be better served by posting in the "You look fabulous" thread. This way, the "Could I pass?" thread could be a place for those who know that they're not quite there yet to get constructive feedback, and then the "You look fabulous" thread could be a place for those who are just looking for positive feedback.

The truth is, most of us already know if we pass, and the heart of the issue is that by allowing the question "Do I pass?" to be asked, you are putting people in a position where they may have to lie, or tell someone something that they really don't want to hear (with potentially disastrous consequences). By keeping the "Could I pass?" thread reserved for those who are asking the question in the potential sense, the honest answer would practically never be no, so people could get the feedback they are looking for without putting others in the position where they feel like they have to bend the truth. Just a thought...

I think a lot has due to with beauty pressure imposed on women. We see it everytime everywhere. On facebook, girls comments each others all the time with "oh you are so beautiful <3", "so pretty <3", "gorgeous <3" and in a way this is no different. It's a little more refined and the people who post there are usually genuinely trying to help others. But I think there's lots of ego stroking as well. We're all putting lots of effort to look our best and I would personally feel devastated if someone told me I looked terrible, so I understand how people look for each other's positive traits all the time and then encourage them. To people who will easily pass with hormones or already do, I think the thread can be very beneficial by giving the confidence boost they are seeking and need to put themselves out there and live their lives. For those who don't pass even on makeup and hormones, I understand how saddenning it must be to hear they look bad so people generally try to give them a cpnfidence boost and giving them input on where they can improve to to blend in more nicely. The only people I think it is clearly detrimental are the ones who don't have much support in their lives and are surrounded by people who won't let them know how they can improve and have false confidence, thinking they look good when they don't pass yet. I don't know to what point it'd be helpful for them to tell them that they look fabulous and very feminine when this could give them a confidence boost when they could be facing potential danger for how they look.

I have noticed guys tend to be a lot more honest to each other in their "Do I Pass" thread than we generally do. Again it has a lot due to with the tremendous beauty pressure we face and on top of the cake we have the potentially looking male which strikes any girl's confidence. So I believe most on "Do I pass" are genuinely trying to be helful and useful. But I think just a little bit more of honesty would be more beneficial to everyone in general. Sometimes the truth is hard to cope with. But it saves lives. And here more than anywhere else we should protect each other.

Personally, they are not so helpful to me.  I'd rather just meet a few people from here for a coffee and get a close up opinion.

You make of the thread what you want, it's definitely not a be all and end all.

I think that most of us know whether we pass or not.

I see the "Do I Pass?" thread as a place for encouraging those who perhaps don't yet have confidence in their outward appearance, regardless of whether they are cute as buttons or works in progress.  We should remember that half the battle when it comes to passing is mental, and a positive "I can do this" attitude goes a long way when taking those early steps.

The photo threads are immense confidence boosters for me, and to be honest, they keep me moving forward.  I'm fairly isolated and don't have any local role models who I can rely on for support, and being able to see that it's actually possible to transition and look female (instead of just becoming a man in a dress) is vital for my motivation.  It's like a road map highlighting the destination, along with some pretty sights on the way there.  I know where I'm going when I look at those threads, and I know I'll eventually get there.

It helps some people, triggers others.

I generally stay away from it, not because it's triggering, but because I don't think you can tell if someone passes from a photo.

Fortunately no one has to read the posts.

I just posted in the before and after because I'm 10 months in and wanted objective comparison that was my second time posting 10 in months  , I don't see much value in the other  picture thread because it's pre everything. the think I can pass

Honestly, it makes me feel pretty bad, Not because I don't think I can pass or because I'm jealous. It may help others, but not me. It did help me initially, I was shocked! some of them looked really pretty and I didn't really think it was possible until I saw those threads.

Personally, all I really care is my own validation, I'm a strict judge of my own appearance (not so much on others' appearance), and I'm pretty good looking right now as a guy, and from the little time I've spent as a girl (in private), I think I look good enough. I'm glad I took my looks from my mother that's all.

I cared about looks a lot, and I still do. Sometimes people on those threads pick out the smallest of flaws, like foreheads or hairlines, when there are many women with high hairlines out there who look perfectly good and feminine. I do however, like the supportive posts that say "You have potential", or posts that are honest and state that there is more to being a woman than passing.

I can't single out this forum, it's just the way the world works, prettier people get more attention, some like it, others see it as a curse. We are pretty shallow, people are judgmental and they can only judge you by appearance if they can't get to know you. Once they get to know you, appearance becomes secondary, until then appearance is all they have.

I don't think these threads are bad though, transgender sites are a safe haven for trans people starting out, it's like a trial run here before they gain enough confidence to go outside or go full time, whether or not they actually pass, if it helps them live, I think it serves it's purpose. Having said all this, there are certain trends on those threads that I don't like.

I've never posted in those threads; a person can really get themselves hurt if they put up a picture and the results are different than what they are expecting  -  negative responses..... or maybe no responses at all. I don't feel a need to risk having myself picked apart like that; I know full well whats under my makeup and where I am deficient.

For those than won the genetic lottery i'm sure it's validating to get positive responses from those threads. For everyone else it can be a completely different experience.

It definitely gave me the confidence to push forward, when at the time my progress was at a standstill due to fear/insecurity. Since then I've had an overwhelmingly positive reception, so I'd say beneficial for me to be sure, but your mileage may vary.

If that thread bothers anyone that much, then simply stay out of it. Many people "need" that thread for many reasons. I don't see the harm in it, and if someone doesn't "pass" then you can still be honest without being rude.

I would NEVER tell someone "Sorry you can't pass!" I give them tips on how they could pass better via makeup style or more flattering clothing. You can be constructive without killing someone's buzz. And let's be honest, how many of us have seen biological females that can't "pass" themselves? Probably every time I go to Walmart.

It's all in how you say it, and I believe in telling the "truth" as much as the next person but within reason.

Some of the picture threads warp my consciousness. I've seen both M2F and F2M sides completely transform themselves in just a few months into different people. My transition has been a 7 year physically painful, soul crushing, life tormenting, struggling to make progress agonizing process. And I'm still not done. At least some people have reached their goals and for them, I am happy. Sometimes I think, God, I'll never be that successful. Even though I've made tremendous strides, everything I've ever done up to this point means nothing until I go full time.

I think we're often too generous with the "sure, you pass" compliments in the do I pass thread.  But as others have said, some of us really need the compliments to help push us out the door.  Besides, passing is so much more than a photo.  Presentation, mannerisms, etc.

But I do like the before and after threads.  One thing that kept me from transitioning in my early 20's was that I was terrified of being the "guy in a dress."  I didn't really know what was possible.  So seeing the before and after photos were instrumental in opening my eyes to the possibilities.  Some people have just hit the genetic lottery, but I'll be happy even if I end up like most of them...reasonably feminine and blend-inable.