Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So I noticed in the "If transitioning meant never orgasming again" thread that I'm in the minority, in that a lot of the girls interested in SRS didn't care if they would ever orgasm again.

Also, I once had someone tell me that wanting to orgasm post-op made it sound as if I was doing it for sexual reasons.

But really, what's wrong with wanting to enjoy every aspect of your life as a woman, whether inside the bedroom or outside?  Am I really the only one who cares about being able to enjoy intimacy post-op, and does this make me "not trans enough?"  And if that's the case, then why do surgeons reassure people that most of their patients do end up orgasmic post-op?

I can't say it's my only reason for considering SRS.  I can't tuck, and I feel like an orchiectomy would just be a job half done, but I hate not being able to wear things like leggings and close-fitted stretch jeans.  I hate that I had to drop ballet because I couldn't be stealth in tights.  I hate that when I sit down to pee I hear splashing at the front of the bowl.

Still, I can't deny that there's a sexual component to this transition, and that so far I have actually had an improved sex life from hormone treatments.  I still hate touching my penis and I can't really have a satisfying orgasm without someone else to touch it for me.  I can't see how having a vagina wouldn't be an improvement, but only if I could enjoy using it.  And yes, I would even be willing to undergo months upon months of painful healing and forced celibacy if I knew the surgery would be a success.

Please tell me I'm not the only one?  I'm not doing it just to have a "sexy life," but I do enjoy sex and I don't see what's wrong with that.

For me it would be nice but it isn't a deal maker or breaker. Pre HRT, being an "aroused female" in my sexual fantasies was the only way I could get off. These days my sexual fantasies have gone from 11 to near zero and I don't miss them one single bit. Still, enjoying sex should be a normal and natural human function, so if I ever do get around to having sex post SRS I sure as hell want to enjoy it!

You're acting like your abnormal because of that, Rose. Sex is great and pretty much everyone loves orgasms, so you aren't really any different than anyone else. I think most people are just saying that SRS outweighs the importance of orgasms, but most of them would still prefer to have the best of both. It would still suck to lose it for pretty much anyone.

It is not a guarantee that is told to us before going under.

It is surgery.

So for me the fact i could not O after the surgery was never on my mind.

My dysphoria was body dysphoria so it was about living my life out as a woman.

I am in the upper limits of maturity and not as important i think as the younger generation.

I do not blame you for wanting the ability to O but there is a chance it will never happen after.

So you need to accept the chance.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 29, 2014, 06:23:14 PM
But really, what's wrong with wanting to enjoy every aspect of your life as a woman, whether inside the bedroom or outside?  Am I really the only one who cares about being able to enjoy intimacy post-op, and does this make me "not trans enough?"

I want that too. I can't wait to start experimenting with my new equipment and see what I can do with it.

But I still felt that SRS would be worth it, even if I could never have another O. Yes I want to be a sexual woman. But a higher priority is to have a body that is 100% female-shaped.

I hope I'm not one of those you're counting as "didn't care." :) If I wasn't clear, I cared. I cared a LOT. It was still worth it to me to take the chance, but that was partly b/c I couldn't orgasm anymore with the parts I had, so worst case was that I ended up the way I already was (could only get off via nipple play) and best case was that I'd get functional genitals back.

It's considered perfectly normal for cis people to want to have sex and be orgasmic; hell, they make all sorts of drugs to fix the problem. Nobody says they're sex-obsessed or not "really" their gender because of it, either. So I think the same should be true for a trans person - if it's the ONLY reason you have for having GRS you (general, not you specifically) should maybe think carefully about the surgical risks etc., but even then I'd think it was a valid choice, since there are for example cis men who choose not to treat prostate cancer b/c they would risk being impotent. Basically, I totally agree with you there.

I had GRS *primarily* because I wanted to have a female-shaped body, but primarily isn't the same thing as exclusively; I definitely had other things I wanted, including sexual functioning. (I'm even a bit curious about what it'd be like to have sex with someone with a penis, though not enough to actually find out.) I'd also have traded self-lubrication and depth for orgasmic ability - I told the surgeon as much. I wanted my parts to work for ME first, and other people only if possible after that.

Quote from: mrs izzy on August 29, 2014, 06:36:00 PM
It is not a guarantee that is told to us before going under.

It is surgery.

So for me the fact i could not O after the surgery was never on my mind.

My dysphoria was body dysphoria so it was about living my life out as a woman.

I am in the upper limits of maturity and not as important i think as the younger generation.

I do not blame you for wanting the ability to O but there is a chance it will never happen after.

So you need to accept the chance.

That's the thing, I don't feel I need it to live as a woman.  It would definitely be an improvement because I do have a noticeable degree of body dysphoria but I can muddle through as I am now and not feel like any less of a woman.  Still, I can't say I'd be entirely happy with keeping my penis... I just don't feel it would make me any more of a woman than I already am to get it changed because the real change had to happen inside me when I accepted myself.

Is that how far along I need to be to even consider SRS, to where I need it to feel like a woman

As for "needing it to feel like a woman," good grief no. :) I consider myself to have finished transition when I was done socially/publicly, and I felt like a woman basically at that point (sometime before, really, but having everyone around me acknowledge it ever after helped). What I did to my nether regions was for me alone, and did not make me feel more like a woman - it removed something I hated about my body, that was starting to make me feel literally sick, and that was all.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 29, 2014, 07:56:57 PM
As for "needing it to feel like a woman," good grief no. :) I consider myself to have finished transition when I was done socially/publicly, and I felt like a woman basically at that point (sometime before, really, but having everyone around me acknowledge it ever after helped). What I did to my nether regions was for me alone, and did not make me feel more like a woman - it removed something I hated about my body, that was starting to make me feel literally sick, and that was all.

That's a bit reassuring, since I could see it getting to that point in a year or two.  The pressure is off of me to make a decision ASAP because I should be able to get into graduate school just fine with my grades and that means 2-4 more years of insurance and time to save up my money.

Still, I'm on the fence so bad I'm getting a wedgie.  I wish I could make up my mind.

Here is my suggestion

SRS HAS a chance of ending in no O capability period. So before you decide on having ir, you need to come to terms with the fact it could happen. Choose your surgeon well to dimish the odds of it happening is what i think.

I didn't absolutly need it for 16 years, then from out of nowhere It was a priority and I needed it period whatever the outcome. Then I knew I was ready.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 29, 2014, 07:54:12 PM
That's the thing, I don't feel I need it to live as a woman.  It would definitely be an improvement because I do have a noticeable degree of body dysphoria but I can muddle through as I am now and not feel like any less of a woman.  Still, I can't say I'd be entirely happy with keeping my penis... I just don't feel it would make me any more of a woman than I already am to get it changed because the real change had to happen inside me when I accepted myself.

Is that how far along I need to be to even consider SRS, to where I need it to feel like a woman?

For me I always felt female since I can remember. I was not a true woman in my own personal feelings.

As Jenna said her moment came earlier.

Everyone holds true inside what there own moments are and should not judge others on when there moment happens.

Yours will come at its own time when its your feeling.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 29, 2014, 06:23:14 PM
I hate that when I sit down to pee I hear splashing at the front of the bowl.

Point your penis backwards, and you'll hit the water.  That's one advantage of having a penis...you can aim it.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 29, 2014, 07:49:35 PM
I had GRS *primarily* because I wanted to have a female-shaped body, but primarily isn't the same thing as exclusively; I definitely had other things I wanted, including sexual functioning. (I'm even a bit curious about what it'd be like to have sex with someone with a penis, though not enough to actually find out.)

Jenna, I like the way you phrase things.  I've been curious about that as well...but not willing to jeopardize my marriage over the novelty of it.

Katie : Thanks. :) My wife is OK with it if I wanted to explore, once - but it just doesn't seem worth the hassle or the risks.

Quote from: Ms Grace on August 29, 2014, 06:30:25 PM
For me it would be nice but it isn't a deal maker or breaker. Pre HRT, being an "aroused female" in my sexual fantasies was the only way I could get off. These days my sexual fantasies have gone from 11 to near zero and I don't miss them one single bit. Still, enjoying sex should be a normal and natural human function, so if I ever do get around to having sex post SRS I sure as hell want to enjoy it!

For me, Grace, this describes ME perfectly, like you.  11 weeks on HRT, and I basically don't have any male sexual functionality.  But since I am female, this is fine, and not having the constant "desperation" is actually quite pleasant.

By the way, I am MUCH better today.  Thanks so much for YOUR help, and the help of several others here.

Johanna.
I am still here, I am still around, fortunately.

While I think it is great that some can be happy with the results of hormones alone, I do not think that will be the case for me. Time will tell but I have always wanted to have girl parts down there, I really don't enjoy using my penis and want another option besides the backdoor. That said, I'm still in the closet and don't know if this will be my reality. I honestly think I would be happier living as a guy with a vagina than how I am now.

Being able to wear a bikini is just an extra perk for me and I do like to surf.

Sex wasn't the only reason for my SRS, but it played a part, I'll say about 10%

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 29, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
I want that too. I can't wait to start experimenting with my new equipment and see what I can do with it.

But I still felt that SRS would be worth it, even if I could never have another O. Yes I want to be a sexual woman. But a higher priority is to have a body that is 100% female-shaped.

I agree totally with you I hope to do that with in the next year to try and have my body match what is between my ears

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 29, 2014, 06:23:14 PM
So I noticed in the "If transitioning meant never orgasming again" thread that I'm in the minority, in that a lot of the girls interested in SRS didn't care if they would ever orgasm again.

Also, I once had someone tell me that wanting to orgasm post-op made it sound as if I was doing it for sexual reasons.

But really, what's wrong with wanting to enjoy every aspect of your life as a woman, whether inside the bedroom or outside?  Am I really the only one who cares about being able to enjoy intimacy post-op, and does this make me "not trans enough?"  And if that's the case, then why do surgeons reassure people that most of their patients do end up orgasmic post-op?

I can't say it's my only reason for considering SRS.  I can't tuck, and I feel like an orchiectomy would just be a job half done, but I hate not being able to wear things like leggings and close-fitted stretch jeans.  I hate that I had to drop ballet because I couldn't be stealth in tights.  I hate that when I sit down to pee I hear splashing at the front of the bowl.

Still, I can't deny that there's a sexual component to this transition, and that so far I have actually had an improved sex life from hormone treatments.  I still hate touching my penis and I can't really have a satisfying orgasm without someone else to touch it for me.  I can't see how having a vagina wouldn't be an improvement, but only if I could enjoy using it.  And yes, I would even be willing to undergo months upon months of painful healing and forced celibacy if I knew the surgery would be a success.

Please tell me I'm not the only one?  I'm not doing it just to have a "sexy life," but I do enjoy sex and I don't see what's wrong with that.

Hi Rose,
On your previous thread, I'm the one who queried about your motivations for considering GRS. As many of the answers you have received here seem to demonstrate, for many, if not most of us, the primary motivation for doing GRS is not sexual, it is about feeling that much more complete as a woman. To make myself perfectly clear, this does not mean that sexual pleasure doesn't/shouldn't come into the equation. Of course it does and probably even more so for a younger woman like you than some of us older ladies. However, for most of us,  it is probably not what decided us on going down this path and among the pre-surgery fears, fear of medical complications figured far higher on my list than any fear of not being able to get an orgasm post-surgery.
Now that I am 1.5 weeks post GRS, recovering far better and faster than I expected, I can confirm my own take on this coming into it. Just seeing my body at last looking like the woman's body I have always dreamed of ( I also did BA surgery), is already a huge source of happiness. As it happens, I have enough evidence from what I am already feeling to imagine that my new body parts should also be a source of considerable pleasure.  So much so that so far at least, I have actually positively enjoyed my dilation sessions.
Hope that helps!
Hugs
Donna

I think maybe you're reading too much into that other thread.

Yes, I want to be able to orgasm but if I end up being one that can't, I still want my surgery. It's not just about orgasm to me, though I'd really like to be able to do that.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 29, 2014, 06:23:14 PM
Please tell me I'm not the only one?  I'm not doing it just to have a "sexy life," but I do enjoy sex and I don't see what's wrong with that.

No of course your not I'm exactly the same.
I got SRS for several pragmatic reasons

1: Want to go Traveling, Dependance on hormone blockers not acceptable
2: Want to go Traveling, Dealing with immigration might be dangerous otherwise.
3: Want to have sex, Dysphoria has excluded me from a meaningful sex life.
4: Personal Control, Reduces circumstances where I might be outed or otherwise controlled.

A failure on any one of these points would have meant that I would have regarded the operation as a failure, Especially since 1+2 could be resolved via orchi+tucking instead of SRS. If point 3 had been an abject failure (which it wasn't) I wouldn't have bothered to dilate. Because without sensation my sex life would still be meaningless to me.

No SRS doesn't make me feel more like a woman, I'm still the same person and still the same woman with or without a Vag, I don't really care how it looks all genitals look disgusting to me. There only use is a functional one, Weeing, Masturbating ect.

Quote from: Donna E on August 30, 2014, 12:52:13 AM
Hi Rose,
On your previous thread, I'm the one who queried about your motivations for considering GRS. As many of the answers you have received here seem to demonstrate, for many, if not most of us, the primary motivation for doing GRS is not sexual, it is about feeling that much more complete as a woman. To make myself perfectly clear, this does not mean that sexual pleasure doesn't/shouldn't come into the equation. Of course it does and probably even more so for a younger woman like you than some of us older ladies. However, for most of us,  it is probably not what decided us on going down this path and among the pre-surgery fears, fear of medical complications figured far higher on my list than any fear of not being able to get an orgasm post-surgery.
Now that I am 1.5 weeks post GRS, recovering far better and faster than I expected, I can confirm my own take on this coming into it. Just seeing my body at last looking like the woman's body I have always dreamed of ( I also did BA surgery), is already a huge source of happiness. As it happens, I have enough evidence from what I am already feeling to imagine that my new body parts should also be a source of considerable pleasure.  So much so that so far at least, I have actually positively enjoyed my dilation sessions.
Hope that helps!
Hugs
Donna

Thanks Donna,

I can't say losing the ability to O is my only or biggest fear; my biggest fear would be complications like scarring, messed up urethral openings, fistulas, etc. that would be expensive and dangerous to correct.  But losing the O is just part of a long list of complications.

Quote from: Myarkstir on August 29, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
Here is my suggestion

SRS HAS a chance of ending in no O capability period. So before you decide on having ir, you need to come to terms with the fact it could happen. Choose your surgeon well to dimish the odds of it happening is what i think.

I didn't absolutly need it for 16 years, then from out of nowhere It was a priority and I needed it period whatever the outcome. Then I knew I was ready.

It would be helpful to me if I knew just what those chances are, and also the chances of having some life-threatening tear or fistula.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 30, 2014, 06:27:03 AM
It would be helpful to me if I knew just what those chances are, and also the chances of having some life-threatening tear or fistula.

In my consent forms Fistulas were listed as a less than 1%,
Other complication chance 10%, As in 10% you will get one of the below.

"other complications" were a large list some correctable some not. Peeing problems, Infection, Hematoma/internal bleeding, nerve damage, Clitoris Death, Vaginal Stenosis, chronic Pain, Abnormal sensation, Scarring, Inorgasma.

I unfortunately got 2 complications... Infection (Kidney+Blood poisoning) and Internal Bleeding/Hematoma... I'm still healing thus partial numbness around my vagina I've got sensation in my clitoris which is enough for me to orgasm.

Edit:: If you like I can upload my actual consent form if you want to read through it.
Edit2:: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EugL0mPX-al4ZkAujK1AEiB4qKWtOhQSPvjHyCGObBk/edit?usp=sharing

Quote from: pebbles on August 30, 2014, 06:59:49 AM
In my consent forms Fistulas were listed as a less than 1%,
Other complication chance 10%, As in 10% you will get one of the below.

"other complications" were a large list some correctable some not. Peeing problems, Infection, Hematoma/internal bleeding, nerve damage, Clitoris Death, Vaginal Stenosis, chronic Pain, Abnormal sensation, Scarring, Inorgasma.

I unfortunately got 2 complications... Infection (Kidney+Blood poisoning) and Internal Bleeding/Hematoma... I'm still healing thus partial numbness around my vagina I've got sensation in my clitoris which is enough for me to orgasm.

Edit:: If you like I can upload my actual consent form if you want to read through it.
Edit2:: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EugL0mPX-al4ZkAujK1AEiB4qKWtOhQSPvjHyCGObBk/edit?usp=sharing

This is all very good info.

Are there any other prognosis indicators for good results that might give me some hope of not being in that 10%?  I think I've read that someone who does not lose their sex drive on hormones usually has a better chance of sexual function post-op but I can't find where I read that.  Also, does being under a certain age or having some specific body trait make success more likely?

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 30, 2014, 07:24:59 AM
This is all very good info.

Are there any other prognosis indicators for good results that might give me some hope of not being in that 10%?  I think I've read that someone who does not lose their sex drive on hormones usually has a better chance of sexual function post-op but I can't find where I read that.  Also, does being under a certain age or having some specific body trait make success more likely?

I can't really comment on that particular instance, I had a medium/high sex drive (for a female) and could get erections/Orgasms fine even with a T level measured in the 0.x Scale, I'm orgasmic now in my clit 5 weeks post op, still numb in my vagina. I was told that smoking makes the risk of things dying and blood clots higher.
It's just luck even with a seemingly ideal body for the op like mine things can go wrong and your strengths can count against you if luck isn't on your side.

Physically I'm in excellent health Mid 20's, I cycle daily, Ran on the weekends, stamina like an ox, don't smoke or drink haven't been seriously ill in over 10 years, naturally a fast healer, Athletic build, good amounts of material for the op... I still got complications.

The reason I got such severe internal bleeding was because I apparently had big thick arteries I had I bled quite abit in theater. Then when they put the drain in he unintentionally lanced a big artery, taking the drain out caused me to bleed internally.

After I had my second op to fix the bleeding and suck out the worst of the hematoma. They gave me tons of blood transfusions (1.2 Liters! 30% my total blood volume) but this still would weaken my immune system 30%, because they only transfuse Red Bloodcells into you.
I was sent home after 6 days because I astounded everyone hobbling all over the hospital chatting to other patients+nurses all day.

Getting home my recovery stalled/declined ever so slightly for 4days
I didn't know that I actually had a dangerous infection if you checked my temperature it would have clearly shown 41'C (high fever) I didn't recognize the symptoms because I'd never been ill before... It wasn't immediately obvious looking at me because my stamina was so damn high I was still romping around.

It was only on the 4th day everything went wrong. I dilated and I ripped apart basically, pus blood everywhere, couldn't stand up anymore, urinating thick brown/red muck, blood pressure through the floor heart rate through the roof, Rushed to A&E

Brassard's informed consent form looked more or less like that, and his nurses would later say that "most people" had a minor complication or two. (Where "minor" was on the order of slight granulation, difficulty with the catheter pain [I had that one], needing the cath reinserted for a couple days until swelling allowed free urination [another girl with me had that], or a stitch or two pulling out early. So nothing to worry about long-term and nothing more than unpleasant in the short term.) He claimed to have had one fistula early in his career, and no cases of prolapse, and also that 90% of his patients were orgasmic. Since I don't know how many vaginoplasties he's done I can't calculate the actual odds on fistula, but since he averaged 6 a week (it's more now) for at least 7 years, let's guesstimate about 2000, which would make 1 out of 2000 = 0.5%.

The thing I've heard about orgasmic capability is that it is generally a good sign if you can orgasm before surgery, and "most" women who had that ability right up until GRS will retain it after. In my anecdotal experience, including several friends, that has been true.