Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My impression for many years that it'd be unlikely that one could have a decent life if they happened to be genetic male and non-binary.  I know that there are people like Andrej before she came out, as well as other androgynous male models, but they also happen to be attracted to guys (thus being able to fit in the gay community) plus they are in the fashion industry.  What about everyone else?  Would one have to sacrifice a lot of freedom (in terms of mobility within the population) if they happened to be genetic male and non-binary (as opposed to trans people who at least make a lot of effort to fit in with the sex and gender that they identify with?)  It seems to me that people would still have a problem with someone that doesn't consistently present as one gender, and unlike genetic females, there would still be less tolerance of genetic males.  I'm in my 30's so maybe the generations younger than me are more tolerant?  I dunno. 

Depends a little on the presentation.  Full transition I can be a bit jarring so I tone it down.  I live a joyous life and am genderqueer presenting, gently.

I present andro.  Seems to work ok for me.

Certainly works for me

Aisla

What about everyone else?

They all live their lives as well.
As you can too...
Live it, enjoy it.
It's yours to do with as you please.
Have fun with it, you own it.
Ativan

^ Well it does matter about how others see us because, unless we are willing to learn everything about self sufficiency and are willing to live in the woods,  we can't live without money and money can only be earned / given by other people (or with the help of other people) and thus we are interdependent with the rest of society.  In addition, unless one is a complete loner, we have to have friends as well.  If we don't have at least some acceptance from the rest of society, it'd be hard to get money and/or to have friends.

Kinda goes without saying.
Are you going to wait for society to accept you or are you going to go out and do your best?
It's your life, you need to do what is best for yourself.
How is society going to accept you if you don't go out and be a part of it?
They're not looking for you, and acceptance is growing everyday, every time the next person becomes a part of it.

There's two ways to live, one is to wait for things to happen for you, the other is to make the things you want happen for you.

So, yah it does matter how others see you, but you have to be there where they can, if you expect them to.
Being interdependent on society requires that you are a part of it.
It also matters in how you see others, as well as how they see you.
It's your life, you own it.
So unless your willing to learn everything there is to living it the way you want, maybe learning to live in the woods isn't such a bad idea.
Some people do like to have a solitary life of sorts. Takes a lot to be a person who can do just that. Takes a lot of learning as well.
You get out of it, what you put into it,... whether anyone accepts you or not.
Ativan

Katelyn

I have a great life as a MAAB identifying as NB.  Because this is my identity and I understand and accept this, it is the only way I can be authentic.  However if your question is really asking whether a MTNB can express themselves in a way that provides a 'decent ' outcome, then this could  depend upon a whole range of factors -

If your level of physical dysphoria requires minor changes, gender cues, removal of emotional dissonance and minor feminisation then this an absolute no brainer

If you are gender fluid then this will require some management and care but is still very achievable

If your target presentation is androgyne with a feminine spin then this will be more challenging and will require more thought and care

If you are gender queer this has been a very successful identity and expression for many non binaries. The extent that you wish to mix and juxtapose binary elements is only limited by imagination and comfort

To Ativan's point, being born male and identifying as NB is quite common and certainly successful for many.  However, as with binary transitions, there are elements of risk, personal comfort and safety which we need to be aware of. 

As an aside there appear to be many MAAB who either mistakenly felt they were MTF and others who knew they were NB who deliberately physically transitioned MTF before presenting as NB.  Some of the first and some of the second group may feel that their first transition was unnecessary, while others may have a very different view.

No person is wrong or right.  It is their life and their journey.  If you have been born male and identify as NB, it is your narrative and your journey.  There is no right or wrong speed, direction, destination or expression.  The only right path is the one which you choose and which you own.  Ideally it should be the one that truly works best for you, rather than a response to prevailing trend, majority view, peer pressure etc

Safe travels

Aisla

Aisla

we need to define MAAB

I can never figure these abreviations out.

There are a million ways to adapt and live successfully transgender. 

My body from the neck down is the same as a fully transitioned preop mtf.

I have no problems, and I sure like having my body look right... despite my "leftover"....

So, yeah.  It can most certainly work.  The question is what is right for you, and the others?  We empower them by choice.  They have no real power over us.  They manipulate our self perception.  That is very wrong.  We need control of our self validation, so that when they invalidate, it bounces right off, for when we know they do not speak truth, it means nothing.

Blessings.  Nails out, publically all the time.... and full of hormones, boobs and all.

SJ

Katelyn,
        Non-binary means that one needn't live full time in either of the standard gender presentations, it offers many options considering what is appropriate for the specific time or place meaning that no-one needs to make themselves a social pariah or the company clown. There is a lot of common sense that comes into play which requires thoughtful consideration of others. My usual uniform is something like you see in my avatar along with skinny jeans and sandals this time of year. I dress more conservatively if I'm attending a wedding or some formal social function rather than ruin it for others. That doesn't change who I am as a person, it's just being considerate of others rather than ramming my usual appearance down other people's throats. They in turn all know that I am different in my daily life, some think a bit eccentric, but they appreciate my sensitivity to the propriety of time and place. I suppose that it's a matter of maturity and keeping self out of the center of everyone else's universe.

i'm sure there must be worse quirks to have than some gender confusion.
the decency lies elsewhere.
society is likely to end up accepting people if they don't make a big deal out of it themselves.

you should try to stalk barbie a little on these forums. she has a most interesting experience.

BTW, when I said have a decent living, I meant things like:  have a good paying job (where you can live comfortably), having many friends, able to not have much of a problem in dating.

Quote from: Katelyn on September 03, 2014, 01:39:21 PM
BTW, when I said have a decent living, I meant things like:  have a good paying job (where you can live comfortably), having many friends, able to not have much of a problem in dating.

Yes I did, the girls have never run away from me screaming. Started transitioning in the workplace 20 years ago, never had any problems and retired comfortably in 2002 with three nice pensions plus SS. Started out MtF but reigned it in and settled nicely into non-binary.