Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Female to male transsexual talk (FTM) => Topic started by: devention on September 07, 2014, 01:01:30 PM Return to Full Version
Title: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: devention on September 07, 2014, 01:01:30 PM
Post by: devention on September 07, 2014, 01:01:30 PM
So at work, basically everyone calls me by my chosen name. And my family is getting good about it as well.
However, my family frequently makes mistakes (which I know are inevitable), and there are people at work who either ignore my new tag, haven't noticed it, or who apparently forget I told them.
How do I be assertive about my need to be referred to as my proper name and gender without coming across as a jerk? I've tried being subtle about it (I'll clear my throat when my mom it step dad mess up), and was told "well, I'm TRYING". Yes, I know you're trying. You messed up and I was letting you know.
But I don't say it because I'm afraid I'll come across as mean and unappreciative.
At work, I'm just worried about disturbing the peace. Most of the older folks are pretty friendly, so I'm afraid telling them will make them upset with me. The people I work with directly are good about it, generally, but most of the girls at the service desk, right next to where I work, still call me by my birth name in front of customers, which confuses them and embarrasses me, not to mention making me feel extremely dysphoric. I don't want to be rude or aggressive, but I do want them to respect me and my request to help me.
Anybody have any advice?
However, my family frequently makes mistakes (which I know are inevitable), and there are people at work who either ignore my new tag, haven't noticed it, or who apparently forget I told them.
How do I be assertive about my need to be referred to as my proper name and gender without coming across as a jerk? I've tried being subtle about it (I'll clear my throat when my mom it step dad mess up), and was told "well, I'm TRYING". Yes, I know you're trying. You messed up and I was letting you know.
But I don't say it because I'm afraid I'll come across as mean and unappreciative.
At work, I'm just worried about disturbing the peace. Most of the older folks are pretty friendly, so I'm afraid telling them will make them upset with me. The people I work with directly are good about it, generally, but most of the girls at the service desk, right next to where I work, still call me by my birth name in front of customers, which confuses them and embarrasses me, not to mention making me feel extremely dysphoric. I don't want to be rude or aggressive, but I do want them to respect me and my request to help me.
Anybody have any advice?
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: LordKAT on September 07, 2014, 01:15:06 PM
Post by: LordKAT on September 07, 2014, 01:15:06 PM
I calmly told a couple people that calling me anything other than my name is type of harassment and I want it to stop.
I told them quietly, but with a witness close enough to hear.
I told them quietly, but with a witness close enough to hear.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: devention on September 07, 2014, 01:28:12 PM
Post by: devention on September 07, 2014, 01:28:12 PM
It's not legally my name though? The process is almost complete (just have to wait for the paper to finish the publication and get the documents from court), but it's nit legal yet. Would that count?
I mean calling me something that is psychologically harmful is harassment? I didn't know that. Makes sense.
Any advice about my mom, though? Like every time I correct her she takes it as a personal attack on her moral fibre our something. She thinks I'm angry at her when I just want to help her remember because she doesn't want to hurt my feelings and I know she feels bad when she does it. :(
I mean calling me something that is psychologically harmful is harassment? I didn't know that. Makes sense.
Any advice about my mom, though? Like every time I correct her she takes it as a personal attack on her moral fibre our something. She thinks I'm angry at her when I just want to help her remember because she doesn't want to hurt my feelings and I know she feels bad when she does it. :(
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: Foxglove on September 07, 2014, 01:34:53 PM
Post by: Foxglove on September 07, 2014, 01:34:53 PM
I find this a difficult question because you do want to be called by your proper name and pronouns, but, as you say, you don't want to come across as a jerk. Depending on how you go about it, people can react very badly.
Once when I was at the butcher's, the guy called me by my old name and rather loudly, too. Fortunately, there weren't any other customers within earshot or it could have been very embarrassing. A couple of days later I managed to get the guy on his own and had a word with him. At first he denied that he had called me by the wrong name, and then later, in a roundabout fashion, he admitted that he had. I took the approach, "Sometimes people just slip up, no big deal, but I do like to be called by my proper name." That is, I didn't come on too aggressively. He took it well, and he hasn't slipped up since.
I think you need to tailor your approach to each individual. Circumstances, and hence necessary action, can vary. Those who've known you the longest and best will perhaps have to most trouble switching over. With them you may need to give it some time.
It's a nuisance, but I think patience is required because people can react badly if they don't like the way you're going about it. That's not really fair since they're the ones in the wrong, but you do want to retain people's good-will--even if they're making it hard on you.
Once when I was at the butcher's, the guy called me by my old name and rather loudly, too. Fortunately, there weren't any other customers within earshot or it could have been very embarrassing. A couple of days later I managed to get the guy on his own and had a word with him. At first he denied that he had called me by the wrong name, and then later, in a roundabout fashion, he admitted that he had. I took the approach, "Sometimes people just slip up, no big deal, but I do like to be called by my proper name." That is, I didn't come on too aggressively. He took it well, and he hasn't slipped up since.
I think you need to tailor your approach to each individual. Circumstances, and hence necessary action, can vary. Those who've known you the longest and best will perhaps have to most trouble switching over. With them you may need to give it some time.
It's a nuisance, but I think patience is required because people can react badly if they don't like the way you're going about it. That's not really fair since they're the ones in the wrong, but you do want to retain people's good-will--even if they're making it hard on you.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: blink on September 07, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
Post by: blink on September 07, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
What I've done is basically tell folks something similar to what you said. That I don't intend to be rude or make them feel bad, but it is important and I will correct them if they slip up. By now folks usually catch themselves before I need to say anything, but a simple "He," "His," or "It's [my name]" works.
I suspect folks get upset about this because they're dealing with their own emotional baggage, related to someone they know "changing" (as they may perceive it). If someone screws up saying a cis person's name they're more likely to be apologetic rather than get their pants in a twist when corrected.
I suspect folks get upset about this because they're dealing with their own emotional baggage, related to someone they know "changing" (as they may perceive it). If someone screws up saying a cis person's name they're more likely to be apologetic rather than get their pants in a twist when corrected.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: Taka on September 07, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
Post by: Taka on September 07, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
when a coworker slips up in front of customers, you could remind them that X doesn't work here anymore. talk about your old name as if it were someone else. they might take a hint.
with your mother, try dog training. it won't take her long to get used to your new name if you only respond to that. don't give any response at all to your old name, unless she says it ten times in a row to get your attention, in which case she isn't slipping up at all, but rather being extremely intentional. the response would have to be that you're called Y now, though. make her say it to get your attention.
learning a new name isn't difficult at all if one wants to. habit will make parents slip up, but if you treat your old name like a person who isn't there, that gives them a chance to correct themselves. just like when my mother says the wrong person's name. it isn't intentional, but she doesn't get response from the one whose attention she intended to get, and soon gets to the right name.
with your mother, try dog training. it won't take her long to get used to your new name if you only respond to that. don't give any response at all to your old name, unless she says it ten times in a row to get your attention, in which case she isn't slipping up at all, but rather being extremely intentional. the response would have to be that you're called Y now, though. make her say it to get your attention.
learning a new name isn't difficult at all if one wants to. habit will make parents slip up, but if you treat your old name like a person who isn't there, that gives them a chance to correct themselves. just like when my mother says the wrong person's name. it isn't intentional, but she doesn't get response from the one whose attention she intended to get, and soon gets to the right name.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: LordKAT on September 08, 2014, 06:29:38 AM
Post by: LordKAT on September 08, 2014, 06:29:38 AM
I admit my answer was due to continued , purposeful use of a name that wasn't even legally mine anymore.
Harassment is almost anything that creates a hostile work environment as seen through the eyes of the person who is harassed. So almost anything that makes it uncomfortable enough to interfere with your or a co workers duties.
Harassment is almost anything that creates a hostile work environment as seen through the eyes of the person who is harassed. So almost anything that makes it uncomfortable enough to interfere with your or a co workers duties.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: Eva Marie on September 08, 2014, 09:20:05 AM
Post by: Eva Marie on September 08, 2014, 09:20:05 AM
In a week i'm going full time and I expect the misgendering and the accidental use of my old name at work to begin. I expect to use gentle humorous corrections at this stage of the process because it does take time for people to adjust and I believe that most people want to use the correct name & pronouns.
But at some point people have had enough time to make the adjustment and if they keep misgendering me or using my old name it crosses into the deliberate; either because they are a bigot or because they are too lazy to do the mental work to make the adjustment. Either case is not acceptable and my corrections will become more firm. If it still continues after that I'll report it to my manager and have him have a chat with the person to get the point across.
As far as with family - that's a tough one. I'm pretty sure that my elderly parents will hate my female name and will insist on calling me by my old name which they absolutely love and they will keep using "he" and "him". This will take extreme tact but I am going to explain to them that by doing that they are effectively rejecting who I am in favor of who they want me to be, and that they are putting me in danger if we ever go out anywhere in public and they use the old name or the wrong pronouns in the vicinity of someone that would do me harm for who I am. I don't have high hopes of making any changes here but it doesn't hurt to gently try.
But at some point people have had enough time to make the adjustment and if they keep misgendering me or using my old name it crosses into the deliberate; either because they are a bigot or because they are too lazy to do the mental work to make the adjustment. Either case is not acceptable and my corrections will become more firm. If it still continues after that I'll report it to my manager and have him have a chat with the person to get the point across.
As far as with family - that's a tough one. I'm pretty sure that my elderly parents will hate my female name and will insist on calling me by my old name which they absolutely love and they will keep using "he" and "him". This will take extreme tact but I am going to explain to them that by doing that they are effectively rejecting who I am in favor of who they want me to be, and that they are putting me in danger if we ever go out anywhere in public and they use the old name or the wrong pronouns in the vicinity of someone that would do me harm for who I am. I don't have high hopes of making any changes here but it doesn't hurt to gently try.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: Rossiter on September 08, 2014, 12:02:41 PM
Post by: Rossiter on September 08, 2014, 12:02:41 PM
I think the best motivation for people who are doing it on purpose is that it's probably going to get awkward fast. My mother switched pronouns once it got to a point where it would look weird to other people if she didn't.
Accidentally using old names or pronouns, though...it happens. Hell, my aunt changed her name several years ago and sometimes I still forget. Some people have an easy time switching and other people just don't, it doesn't always have anything to do with how they feel about it. I've seen a lot of people saying things like "using a new name is easy" but I'm terrible at it.
Accidentally using old names or pronouns, though...it happens. Hell, my aunt changed her name several years ago and sometimes I still forget. Some people have an easy time switching and other people just don't, it doesn't always have anything to do with how they feel about it. I've seen a lot of people saying things like "using a new name is easy" but I'm terrible at it.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: Athena on September 08, 2014, 12:13:04 PM
Post by: Athena on September 08, 2014, 12:13:04 PM
"Please I would prefer if you would call me (chosen name) rather then my old name. I know it takes some getting used to but my old name no longer represents who I am and makes me feel uncomfortable. I appreciate the effort thanks. "
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: pianoforte on September 08, 2014, 09:22:32 PM
Post by: pianoforte on September 08, 2014, 09:22:32 PM
I like that one a lot, White Rabbit. I'd probably change it to "my old name does not represent who I am" instead of "no longer" because it really never did for me. But that's a personal feeling.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: Athena on September 08, 2014, 09:37:46 PM
Post by: Athena on September 08, 2014, 09:37:46 PM
The thing with "no longer" indicates to them a change has occurred. It might make it easier for them to realize that your old name is no longer applicable.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: darkfox91 on September 19, 2014, 12:12:54 PM
Post by: darkfox91 on September 19, 2014, 12:12:54 PM
I found myself really frustrated at the beginning of my transition because of this problem. I didn't work with a ton of people, maybe like 5 people at a time depending on the shift. So when people messed up I would get pretty frustrated, especially when it was in front of new people who I hadn't told. I wasn't nice about it, I would go from being fine to being really mad just because of it. I mean it just made me really dysphoric. Same goes with my family. I'd snap and then more calmly try to explain how it made me feel and why I reacted the way I did. People think that changing from calling you one name to another is difficult but they need to consider how difficult your situation is for you and how much of a difference it makes when they DON'T mess up.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: NathanielM on September 19, 2014, 02:05:28 PM
Post by: NathanielM on September 19, 2014, 02:05:28 PM
As longs as it's 'messing up' and not plain 'not wanting to' I either simply correct 'he' 'his' 'Nathan'. Just say the correct thing and leave it at that, and when people start saying sorry or something I just smile and say that's okay, just correcting you, I appreciate you making the effort. Sometimes I make a joke, I've said yeah she's.... or something as if they're talking about someone else. With some friends I'll say excuse me I'm a supermanly dudebro (I'm not :p). My mom also has the tendency to make one mistake and then suddenly make one after the other (I guess it's stress) and then I also laugh about it with her. Actually mostly I do take the humour approach or at least the smiling-approach. Smiling while I correct people seems to make them feel less guilty and thus less likely to be defensive about it. Which is, I think, the main reason for upset or annoyed reactions.
Title: Re: Assertive corrections vs mean corrections
Post by: sebster on September 19, 2014, 08:34:20 PM
Post by: sebster on September 19, 2014, 08:34:20 PM
For the girls at work? Quietly take them aside and smack them upside the head politely explain why it makes you uncomfortable.
With parents, idk. I can't get mine to use the right pronouns. My dad refuses to even try and my mother doesn't even believe that gay people exist or that she gave birth to "a gay child".
With parents, idk. I can't get mine to use the right pronouns. My dad refuses to even try and my mother doesn't even believe that gay people exist or that she gave birth to "a gay child".
Quote from: devention on September 07, 2014, 01:01:30 PM
So at work, basically everyone calls me by my chosen name. And my family is getting good about it as well.
However, my family frequently makes mistakes (which I know are inevitable), and there are people at work who either ignore my new tag, haven't noticed it, or who apparently forget I told them.
How do I be assertive about my need to be referred to as my proper name and gender without coming across as a jerk? I've tried being subtle about it (I'll clear my throat when my mom it step dad mess up), and was told "well, I'm TRYING". Yes, I know you're trying. You messed up and I was letting you know.
But I don't say it because I'm afraid I'll come across as mean and unappreciative.
At work, I'm just worried about disturbing the peace. Most of the older folks are pretty friendly, so I'm afraid telling them will make them upset with me. The people I work with directly are good about it, generally, but most of the girls at the service desk, right next to where I work, still call me by my birth name in front of customers, which confuses them and embarrasses me, not to mention making me feel extremely dysphoric. I don't want to be rude or aggressive, but I do want them to respect me and my request to help me.
Anybody have any advice?