Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So I'm just following up on my last reply to a different thread, as I believe that every girl deserves to be treated like a princess every now and then.  It's the little things like "holding a door open, pulling a chair out, giving a flower, having a coat placed around us".  It's these little gestures of kindness that make us smile, blush, and weak.  Yes we may be capable of doing things for our self, but when a man goes out of his way to show his chivalry, it means more then words.

So how many of you have experienced the chivalrous things that guys do for woman?

Honestly I find it annoying when people do stuff like that for me. I am polite but internally I feel like "I don't know you, stay away from me". I would prefer someone to hold the door they just went thru for me, but to jump in front of me just to open the door annoys me every time.

I would feel appreciated if a lover were to make gestures like this, but I just find it weird and creepy when strangers do.

I am still getting used to this but I am glad it's happening. I enjoy it though I don't hesitate to try to hold doors if I get there first. However, usually when I try to do that, the man puts his arm behind me, grabs the door, and says "I've got it" so I try not to fight the tide. As old King Canute showed us, fighting the tide just gets us wet. :)

Quote from: CrissyMarie on September 19, 2014, 10:30:47 AM
So I'm just following up on my last reply to a different thread, as I believe that every girl deserves to be treated like a princess every now and then.

I do like it when men hold the door for me.

I also hold the door for men when I get the chance.

I mean, doesn't every guy deserve to be treated like a prince every now and then?

I really don't like special treatment for anything. I do like kindness, but I think that should be shared among everyone. If it's just because of who I am, it actually keys into my anxiety.

Not long after I transitioned a friend insisted on walking me to the train station after a movie we'd seen. It was night but there were still a lot of people around in an area I would characterise as safe. Or at least it had felt safe to me in guy mode. Also I am an inch taller than him and felt (at the time) able to look after myself. I did appreciate the gesture though. I do think it had more to do with him being worried I'd be hassled for being trans than me as a woman.

I actually had someone open a door for me today,  I think its quite sweet
It was the first time someone actually did that sort of thing for me, but I'm only fulltime for 2 or 3 weeks now.

Quote from: CrissyMarie on September 19, 2014, 10:30:47 AM
So I'm just following up on my last reply to a different thread, as I believe that every girl deserves to be treated like a princess every now and then.  It's the little things like "holding a door open, pulling a chair out, giving a flower, having a coat placed around us".  It's these little gestures of kindness that make us smile, blush, and weak.  Yes we may be capable of doing things for our self, but when a man goes out of his way to show his chivalry, it means more then words.

My thoughts exactly girl! I love it because it reinforces my femininity and makes me feel all gushy inside. It is also a very firm confirmation that I am looked at and acknowledged as a woman. I have had men put those big heavy (giggle) bags of dog food in my cart or carry them out for me. When something chivalrous happens I am just thrilled.  ^-^ :)

I've had a bit of chivalry, and I don't mind it one bit.  Actually, I thoroughly enjoy it.

One discovery I made just a few days after I came out: I'd noticed about myself many years ago that whenever I was walking down the street and was going to run into someone, I would always get out of their way.  I eventually decided that I was simply obeying the Law of the Jungle--the smaller must always give way to the bigger, and at 5'3" I'm almost always the smaller.

But one day just after I'd come out, I was walking down the street and was on a collision course with some guy and so as usual I started to move aside.  Then I caught myself: "Wait a minute!  Let him get out of my way!  He can show a woman a bit of respect."  So I just kept going straight ahead and (lo and behold!) he stepped aside.  I was overjoyed.  "Ha! At last, a bit of respect.  And all I had to do to get it was to put on a skirt."

Ever since then, if I'm about to run into some guy, I just keep going and he always gets out of my way.  The only guys who don't would be really old geezers or the odd really rude guy.  But the overwhelming majority will give way to me.

And it's happened often enough that some guy holds a door for me.  Whenever that happens, I smile, thank him, sail on through and tell him, "You're right!  I am worth it!"  (I don't really say that.)

Your average guy does enjoy, I think, being chivalrous.  Makes him feel like a man.  So why deny him the pleasure?  I feel like I'm doing him a favour.

I've had several guys walk me to my car before when it was late and dark and I appreciated it each time because I sensed the danger. As a guy I never gave my safety a second thought. I have also learned to ask for help when something is heavy and there is always a guy around that is more than happy to help me.

---k chivalry and ---k the patriarchy.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 19, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
---k chivalry and ---k the patriarchy.

Yeah, a few years living as a woman has left me with a rather dim view of chivalry.

I don't know about chivalry, I think you have to be born into the right family about 500 years ago and start training for it when you are about 8 years old. But. Yeah, it's sweet when some chap holds the door open for me. I smile, he smiles and we both have a slightly better day for it.

Rosie

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 19, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
---k chivalry and ---k the patriarchy.

I get your point but I think its a bit harsh. We can all be equal and all be nice. I like the way this post put it ...

Quote from: suzifrommd on September 19, 2014, 10:57:03 AM
I do like it when men hold the door for me.

I also hold the door for men when I get the chance.

I mean, doesn't every guy deserve to be treated like a prince every now and then?

Being polite and chivalry are not the same things. Being polite is well... Being polite. Chivalry is an entitlement to women's bodies based on the idea that treating a woman with respect means that the man in question is owed something.

Quote from: suzifrommd on September 19, 2014, 10:57:03 AM
I do like it when men hold the door for me.

I also hold the door for men when I get the chance.

I mean, doesn't every guy deserve to be treated like a prince every now and then?

Yes. At least I do.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBADz4HE.png&hash=b3498932ecf4b4994fd15fdc99eb0c25695cdc22)

Keep in mind I'm pre-HRT, but as of now, I feel like it says that women can't do things for themselves. I feel like it demeans our gender. "Look at me I'm helpless and can't open a door without a big strapping man to help me" With that said I hold doors open for people, but I try not to wait for them. If they are right behind me that's about it. I've always believed that women are better than men in many ways and equal in others. So maybe its my feminist attitude talking. My attitude is that you don't need a man to do anything.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on September 19, 2014, 06:41:21 PM
My attitude is that you don't need a man to do anything.

I do not either, but I thrive on the attention myself. There is no harm in letting them feel good about themselves for helping me out. I find the politeness very sexy and admirable in this day and age. I am very girly femme so maybe this is why I like it. :)

Actually I kind of like the idea that guys might hit on me eventually even though I'm not interested. Hopefully I will get girls hit on me too.

I tend to not look at it as chivalry, but rather as people just being kind, thoughtful, considerate, courteous and respectful of each other

I'll hold the door or try to help in some way regardless of perceived sex and/or gender whenever the opportunity/need arises whenever I am able to do so

Maybe I'm weird, but for me it's about being a decent person towards other people with no other implication involved

When I had to pass through a security thing, a man picked up my coat and put it in for me.  When I worked as a waitress, I wasn't allowed to leave at night without walking to my car with another person. After a job interview, it was raining, and a man held his umbrella over me until I got to my boyfriend's car.  I've been offered many more rides than when I was an androgynous teenager... Hmm, that's about it!

Quote from: suzifrommd on September 19, 2014, 10:57:03 AM
I do like it when men hold the door for me.

I also hold the door for men when I get the chance.

I mean, doesn't every guy deserve to be treated like a prince every now and then?

Make a guy feel like a prince. I love it! :)

I have some extreme feminists in my group of friends who would take issue with the idea of chivalry. We were going through a double set of doors once and a guy held the first set for one of those friends of mine. She dashed ahead to the second and said, "I can hold doors too".

I have had guys sprint ahead to hold doors for me. I'm routinely granted first off privilege from the elevator. Only very rarely do I get grumpy over the treatment as my friend did. I do think she's on to something though. As a society chivalry is something we do for women but deny men. That does have shades of sexism to my eye. So! Holding a door open for a guy as a quotidian matter or so he can enjoy some regal feelings too, I think it's only fair. :)

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 19, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
---k chivalry and ---k the patriarchy.

I know. It's so oppressive with all the awful micro-aggressions that men do to hold us down.  How dare they hold the door open for us (physically weaker gender) or put a coat around us (we get colder easier) or even smile at us. This has nothing to do with hundreds of thousands of years of behavior honed by sexual dimorphism and everything to do with female oppression

Quote from: CrissyMarie on September 19, 2014, 10:30:47 AM
So I'm just following up on my last reply to a different thread, as I believe that every girl deserves to be treated like a princess every now and then.  It's the little things like "holding a door open, pulling a chair out, giving a flower, having a coat placed around us".  It's these little gestures of kindness that make us smile, blush, and weak.  Yes we may be capable of doing things for our self, but when a man goes out of his way to show his chivalry, it means more then words.

So how many of you have experienced the chivalrous things that guys do for woman?

I went shopping in the sales today, laden down with bags, but when I got on the train it was full, I was exhausted, but a super sweet guy gave up his seat, he must have seen a ''lady in distress'' it was 1 of those days, my feet in my heels where killing me, I smiled and thanked him, he took my bags and put them on the overhead bag rack, he really went out of his way to show his chivalry, if I'm honest, yes it was nice, it made me blush, and it is nice to meet a gentleman that has a respect for me as a woman.

I just find it annoying. Didn't open doors for women before, don't expect doors to open for me now.

ying - yang or what not, ->-bleeped-<-s all around  ;D

Unfortunately, chivalry is not dead. Because of this it continues to perpetuate sexism and the exploitation of women.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 19, 2014, 12:57:49 PM
My thoughts exactly girl! I love it because it reinforces my femininity and makes me feel all gushy inside. It is also a very firm confirmation that I am looked at and acknowledged as a woman. I have had men put those big heavy (giggle) bags of dog food in my cart or carry them out for me. When something chivalrous happens I am just thrilled.  ^-^ :)

I'm with both of you.  There's a guy that I chit chat with at the bar from time to time and he makes a point to open the door for me every time.  He gets mad if I beat him to the door.  Another man who is in the middle of his divorce buys me a drink every time. We shoot pool together, and he calls me "baby".   I absolutely love that. It's something I've wanted my whole life, and now it's happening on a daily basis. 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 19, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
I do not either, but I thrive on the attention myself. There is no harm in letting them feel good about themselves for helping me out. I find the politeness very sexy and admirable in this day and age. I am very girly femme so maybe this is why I like it. :)

yes girl!  I'm with you. 

I think we need to take a poll on this topic.  I wonder how many of women that don't like chivalry are actually lesbians vs those of us that consider ourselves straight women. I would say that most of us that are straight actually welcome chivalry in its simple form.

Quote from: monica93304 on December 28, 2014, 02:46:12 PM
I think we need to take a poll on this topic.  I wonder how many of women that don't like chivalry are actually lesbians vs those of us that consider ourselves straight women. I would say that most of us that are straight actually welcome chivalry in its simple form.

When is it okay for a straight person to ostracize a non-hetero person?

Just saying, I like men and women and non-binary people. I am pan-sexual personally and identity and/or assignment mean nothing to me when it comes to a partner. I am a queer woman, but that does not make my opinion about chivalry any more or less valid.

I see your point.  Not trying to offend.  Just trying to get perspective.  I figured that's where you were coming from.  Doesn't make your point or my point wrong.  It's a matter of preference. 

i hold doors and elevators open for anyone and wait for them too, but rarely is it done for me, until lately that is now that i am presenting my femininity.
At Christmas i got the car stuck over a high mound of ice, it was see sawing and with my wife at the wheel i tried but could not budge it.
Before i knew it a strong helpful man was at my side offering his assistance. Before we started pushing he smiled at me and said be careful now
when we push, it´s slippery. i do believe i blushed a bit and as he put in 90% of the effort needed, the care moved free. He received my loveliest smile.
i really like it now that men move ahead of me to hold the door when i attempt to do it.  i am pre hrt so that makes me doubly appreciative,
it tells me that some men see me as a woman already, which is simply the best feeling in the world to me. :)

I appreciate politeness and kindness from all genders, but do not appreciate when I am made to feel like an object or property.

I do very much hate the ladies first thing because I would very much rather have a man I don't know in front of me where I can see him.

I am straight, also a feminist, also dislike the concept of chivalry.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 19, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
I do not either, but I thrive on the attention myself. There is no harm in letting them feel good about themselves for helping me out. I find the politeness very sexy and admirable in this day and age. I am very girly femme so maybe this is why I like it. :)

I absolutely agree, a few months ago I was on the same train, when I met a lady with a young boy, she said to her young son, have a little manners and let the lady have the seat, the youngster wasn't happy, but this was his mother (not his father) teaching him at a very young age to respect women, he'll probably grow up being a gentleman.
I do like the attention, if a guy feels good being a gentleman and treating me like a lady, yes it's nice, I'm worth it. A cab driver resently turning up the heat in his cab because he thought myself and sister-in-law where cold, well I was freezing and it was nice of him to notice 2 freezing girls in the back seat of his cab, ''are you warm enough ladies''  I thought it was very considered, it's nice there are still gentlemen who have a gentlemen respect for women.

Quote from: lindagrl on December 28, 2014, 03:03:00 PM

At Christmas i got the car stuck over a high mound of ice, it was see sawing and with my wife at the wheel i tried but could not budge it.
Before i knew it a strong helpful man was at my side offering his assistance. Before we started pushing he smiled at me and said be careful now
when we push, it´s slippery. i do believe i blushed a bit and as he put in 90% of the effort needed, the care moved free. He received my loveliest smile.
i really like it now that men move ahead of me to hold the door when i attempt to do it.  i am pre hrt so that makes me doubly appreciative,
it tells me that some men see me as a woman already, which is simply the best feeling in the world to me. :)

You go girl, it's a great feeling, getting help from a big strong helpful man, blushing and giving that loveliest smile, it's worked magic for me over the years, times like that, it really is just nice being a girl.

Oh wow, I love this thread!

Yeah, I really really like receiving this kind of treatment. But I guess my personality is also super-femme.

Even if its just convention, even if its just a handful of well-trained men ... I love it :~]

Once my bus pulled up too far away from the kerb. I went to get off in my heels.

I missed the step entirely, and went down like a sack of potatoes.

Immediately, three men ran over to pick me up off the ground.

I *REALLY* liked that :~] I'll go so far as to day it made my day!

Quote from: SarahBoo on December 28, 2014, 03:35:50 PM
Once my bus pulled up too far away from the kerb. I went to get off in my heels.

I missed the step entirely, and went down like a sack of potatoes.

Immediately, three men ran over to pick me up off the ground.

I *REALLY* liked that :~] I'll go so far as to day it made my day!
[/quote




I bet it did Sarah

Not like I've experienced it myself, but I too would find it demeaning, and creepy. I hold the door for people when I'm going into places, but don't open it for them. You do also realize that when guys hold open doors for one and other they often say "ladies first" as a derogatory remark towards each other.

I have no appreciation for gestures from the "stronger sex". 

No idea what's wrong, but tho I have true, attractive, 100% usual female, European and blond look... but it seems that I started to hate men and they hate me. No holding of the doors for me, really nothing significant else... It's even not funny, but rather scary. Like mysticism - why so? Pity that I am still attracted sexually to men and respect them very much, but they do not appreciate it - why? And emotionally I am attracted more to women. A strange situation hmmm....

Welll ... I didn't find being picked up off the bitumen to be demeaning. I'd have been offended if I was just left there, definitely! :~o

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 19, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
---k chivalry and ---k the patriarchy.

Agreed.  Chivalry when exclusively expressed by a man towards a woman is basically just sexist.  Chivalry when expressed by anyone towards anyone regardless of gender is basically just being kind and a decent human being.

I wouldn't wan't someone to hold the door for me purely on the basis of my gender, I'd wan't them to do it because they're being nice to another *EQUAL* human being.  I've always held the door for others, irrespective of their gender, because its just a nice thing to do for someone and that's it.  If you do it because "they're a woman" then that just reinforces the gender stereotype that "women are weak / feeble / can't even open a door on their own", which is something that's just provably wrong (I mean, women are responsible for pushing every human being on the planet out of their vaginas, they bleed heavily once a month and have been proven to have a higher pain threshold than men... how is any of that "weak"?? :laugh:).

So yeh, they may well have good intentions and all, but that doesn't make it "right".

Quote from: Elsa Delyth on December 28, 2014, 04:03:17 PM
You do also realize that when guys hold open doors for one and other they often say "ladies first" as a derogatory remark towards each other.

I never find it demeaning, infact if I'm in an elevator, when reaching a floor, guys do often put out their hand in a respectful gesture  ''ladies first'' I'II smile and sometimes say ''thank you''  it's nice.

Quote from: ♥︎ SarahD ♥︎ on December 28, 2014, 04:53:25 PM
Agreed.  Chivalry when exclusively expressed by a man towards a woman is basically just sexist.  Chivalry when expressed by anyone towards anyone regardless of gender is basically just being kind and a decent human being.

I wouldn't wan't someone to hold the door for me purely on the basis of my gender, I'd wan't them to do it because they're being nice to another *EQUAL* human being.  I've always held the door for others, irrespective of their gender, because its just a nice thing to do for someone and that's it.  If you do it because "they're a woman" then that just reinforces the gender stereotype that "women are weak / feeble / can't even open a door on their own", which is something that's just provably wrong (I mean, women are responsible for pushing every human being on the planet out of their vaginas, they bleed heavily once a month and have been proven to have a higher pain threshold than men... how is any of that "weak"?? :laugh:).

So yeh, they may well have good intentions and all, but that doesn't make it "right".

It's funny that you talk about the pain threshold. I once read about a study that had people hold their hands in hot water, and see who could do it longer, and men generally did it longer than women, so one of the female researchers remarked "this just proves that men are stupider." Lol.

Quote from: pretty pauline on December 28, 2014, 04:56:32 PM
I never find it demeaning, infact if I'm in an elevator, when reaching a floor, guys do often put out their hand in a respectful gesture  ''ladies first'' I'II smile and sometimes say ''thank you''  it's nice.

I'm saying that men find it demeaning, when it's done for them -- and overtly demean each other, using women as a vehicle, when doing it for each other.

Using women and femininity to demean other men is fairly ubiquitous.

Don't get me wrong though, not like I'd make a big deal about it if it happened, I'd be congenial, but I still wouldn't like it!

I appreciate the gesture, and consider it an act of kindness.  :)

Quote from: Elsa Delyth on December 28, 2014, 05:43:06 PM
I'm saying that men find it demeaning, when it's done for them -- and overtly demean each other, using women as a vehicle, when doing it for each other.

Using women and femininity to demean other men is fairly ubiquitous.

Don't get me wrong though, not like I'd make a big deal about it if it happened, I'd be congenial, but I still wouldn't like it!

I understand, I miss understood your post.
On another point, I remember a gas station near where I lived, had a guy filling gas into cars for women customers, I loved that personal service, particularly as I hated smelling of gas, the guy was only too eager to do it, these days hubby does all that stuff.

I guess that I look on the bright side of it all.

Yes, chivalry has its roots in patriarchal nonsense.

But I'm much more interested in intention.

When a guy is chivalrous, he often does it because that's part of what he's been taught about being a good person - and he is trying to be one!

I think its very sweet.


Sarah x

I don't mind it - a remnant of a time long gone when gender roles were more clearly defined, and it's just nice to be recognized and treated as female once in a while.  A door held open for me is as pleasant as being "ma'am"ed, a harmless gesture that rights some small part of my prior life.

Doesn't happen often though.  The last person to treat me overtly as female was my endocrinologist, the sweetest and most understanding person I know when it comes to that kind of thing.  Held my shirt for me as I put it on, a real gentleman.  Of course, that was moments after he had felt my tits, fondled my balls, and stuck his finger up my ass :o, so I guess pretending I was a girl was the least he could do...

Chivalry can be nice, but I also find it amusing.  For example, I thought it was hilarious when I was still pretending to be a guy and I'd be leaving a store and some guy would come zooming around from behind me to open the door.  Then he'd turn around, look at me, and . . . surprise!  Yes, I was wearing a tie! 

And I swear that one of these days when I am on an elevator and a group of men wait for me to get out first, I am just going to stand there and wait to see how long it takes for them to either go around me or say something,

:)

If I present myself as female I get doors open, elevator doors held, "after you, miss" etc.

If I present as a male I get almost none of that. Occasionally someone will hold the door behind them as I'm entering. Sometimes I do get people opening doors, but it's more of an "after you bro" kinda thing.

I kind of like chivalry. I don't consider it to be sexist at all. I work among high powered and well paid women here, who I have opened doors for and treated like ladies many times. When I go FT at work I hope I'm treated the same.

Quote from: ThePhoenix on December 29, 2014, 09:22:45 AM
Chivalry can be nice, but I also find it amusing.  For example, I thought it was hilarious when I was still pretending to be a guy and I'd be leaving a store and some guy would come zooming around from behind me to open the door.  Then he'd turn around, look at me, and . . . surprise!  Yes, I was wearing a tie! 

And I swear that one of these days when I am on an elevator and a group of men wait for me to get out first, I am just going to stand there and wait to see how long it takes for them to either go around me or say something,

:)

Oh, LOL. One of my coworkers and I went to a meeting with a new account manager for a vendor of ours. She had to take a cab back to her office, and you should see how he basically ran around like the road runner trying to catch one for her. It was pretty amusing.