Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So  me and four friends went clubbing on Tuesday night ( it was heritage day, a public holiday in SA). So first we went to Aqua , a gay club. I've been there before and it was fun. I felt very concious and couldn't relax so I started drinking to loosen up. I started to relax and have fun. After a few hours we decided to go to another club, not a gay club.

I was feeling lonely and I wanted to make out with someone (I know that sounds baaad). We just arrived at the other club, still standing outside when my friend (lets call her C) is greeted by two guys she knows from university. The one then asks me if I think his friend is handsome, I said yes I do. Then he asked me if I wanted to go home with him, and I said yes again, (I didn't actually want to but I was hoping we could start kissing).

So the guy came towards me and hugged me and started kissing me.  I kissed him back and I was enjoying it, but then he started pulling me to his car and C freaked out saying we have to go now.  we kissed some more for a few seconds and when C had had it with me she said she was gonna leave me (she later said it was just to get me to panic and get away from them)  so I panicked and I wanted him to let me go. He started trying to pick me up and pull me to his car again but C pulled me away.

Later C told me the guy that asked if i think his friend is hot and if I want to go home with him, knew I was trans and just wanted us to kiss so he could make fun of his friend (she knew because the guy asked her "so what is his name?" when me and the guy were kissing) . 

Now the guy I kissed is asking C if I'm female and he said he's stressing about it.
I know we can't lie to him because he'll find out one way or another. But now I'm scared that he will try to hurt me or something if he knows.. I don't know how to feel about all of this

oh man...
bad situation

hope it all ends well

Melanie! This made the hair stand up on my neck and I don't even have any there. Why in the world would you put yourself in this situation?  :-\ Sorry, just the Mom coming out in me. I am so happy you got out of the situation like you did as this could have ended so badly. I think you are right to worry about fallout from this. Please don't take this reply as preaching or judgment, but someone who truly cares for you. Please do not get into this situation again. I am glad you are safe right now and did not pay the ultimate penalty for this. Please, please take care of yourself, OK?  :(

I'd be staying away from that scene for a while if I was you. :(

 To be clear, you are female. Never be afraid to tell people that they are full of crap. Most people drift through life blissfully unaware that 90% of what comes out of their mouths could fertilize a farm.

When all else fails, deny everything, admit nothing, make counter accusations.

Scary ... I would just stay away from those guys for a while. However, the whole night wasn't liketotally horrible. At least you had fun..

Wow! That's pretty bad. But these are people who knew your friend, right? So who spilled the beans?

That must have been scary. But good on you for being you, though be careful in future hon

Wow, scary situation!

I think you learned a valuable lesson that night about being out as a girl and safety. The rules are just wayyyyy different for being out as a female vs. being out as a guy, and as a trans woman the rules are even more different because we have lots more risks than a cisgender woman has in that situation.

If I had been me in that situation I would have avoided alcohol because I would want to be sharp and aware and not have my judgement possibly impaired. I would not have encouraged that guy, and I would not have been willing to get into his car. Your friend "C" was smart to get you out of that situation.

I am not intending to nag you, but as the parent of two young college age girls (one of which was followed into a bathroom by a creepy guy recently and was arrested for it) the safety of us girls is first and foremost in my mind. We have much at risk just for being who we are. You are young and cute and you have your whole life ahead of you - please be careful the next time this happens.

Quote from: Eva Marie on September 25, 2014, 08:49:35 AM
Wow, scary situation!

I think you learned a valuable lesson that night about being out as a girl and safety. The rules are just wayyyyy different for being out as a female vs. being out as a guy, and as a trans woman the rules are even more different because we have lots more risks than a cisgender woman has in that situation.

If I had been me in that situation I would have avoided alcohol because I would want to be sharp and aware and not have my judgement possibly impaired. I would not have encouraged that guy, and I would not have been willing to get into his car. Your friend "C" was smart to get you out of that situation.

I am not intending to nag you, but as the parent of two young college age girls (one of which was followed into a bathroom by a creepy guy recently and was arrested for it) the safety of us girls is first and foremost in my mind. We have much at risk just for being who we are. You are young and cute and you have your whole life ahead of you - please be careful the next time this happens.

ditto

Yeah, best stay clear of any place you have a bad experience at like that. 

It was good there were two of you, buddy system is priceless in those places.

Stay safe.!

First off, you're female.  You owe NO ONE an explanation of that, ever.  Least of all some scumbag that would likely have raped you had your friend not pulled you away, or his friend who believes you are not a human but a tool to be used for his amusement in playing a prank.

Second, if he even vaguely intimates a threat to you remember that you can always charge him with attempted rape just based on what has ALREADY HAPPENED.  Being in a weird headspace and putting yourself out there, while risky as hell, is not a crime.  Neither is kissing.  Trying to drag you into his car while you protest, is.

Third, to echo what people have said here - for the love of pete be careful and stay safe!

Sorry if I sound preachy, but hearing this made me so angry at those two sorry sad excuses for human beings.

Thank you for reminding me why I dislike the clubbing/drinking scene.

Melanie,
       Seems like you had a rather nice time up to a point, glad it didn't turn out really ugly though. We all have choices and some times it's better to refuse to acquiesce to male come-ons especially when you've never met that person and had no idea what to expect. I do realize how a few too many drinks can impede one's thought process. It was a good learning experience for sure and you get no criticism from me for being a fun loving girl. Be good, take care of yourself sweetie!

Well in the UK, you just committed a jailable offense in not disclosing before sexual intimacy.  Backwards land I live in. 

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 25, 2014, 01:55:11 PM
Well in the UK, you just committed a jailable offense in not disclosing before sexual intimacy.  Backwards land I live in. 

Really? Isn't it just the guys fault for making assumptions based on societal norms?

Sorry for scaring you guys with this  :icon_bunch: It was stupid of me to do what I did and I did learn from it.

C saw the two guys today ( they study almost the same thing she does and she sees them every thursday) they asked her if I'm a girl and she said yes I am as much a woman as she is so they believed her. Apparently that guy doesn't know for sure I'm trans but he recognised me from when I was a guy or something, it's confusing.

Now I'm a bit nervous because the guy I kissed studies very close to the building I study at. I've never seen him at uni before but as my luck would have it I'd probably bump into him sooner or later now. C says I should just ignore him and walk away from him if that should happen. so that's what I'll do.

Thank you all for caring about me :icon_love: . I'll be more careful from now on and I'll carry pepper spray with me :)

Quote from: melanie maritz on September 25, 2014, 02:42:25 PM
Sorry for scaring you guys with this  :icon_bunch: It was stupid of me to do what I did and I did learn from it.

C saw the two guys today ( they study almost the same thing she does and she sees them every thursday) they asked her if I'm a girl and she said yes I am as much a woman as she is so they believed her. Apparently that guy doesn't know for sure I'm trans but he recognised me from when I was a guy or something, it's confusing.

Now I'm a bit nervous because the guy I kissed studies very close to the building I study at. I've never seen him at uni before but as my luck would have it I'd probably bump into him sooner or later now. C says I should just ignore him and walk away from him if that should happen. so that's what I'll do.

Thank you all for caring about me :icon_love: . I'll be more careful from now on and I'll carry pepper spray with me :)

Wow. Definitely be more careful from now on and go to the local sporting goods store and get the bear spray. If it will stop a bear, it will definitely stop a jackass.

It sounds like it started out fun and then went really scary really fast. Just always be careful Melanie. Those little urges and all, there are guys out there that don't care. And then there are these two Jackasses trying to use you to try to shame his friend. His friend may not even care, but.... There is just no way to know.

Carry pepper spray and tell the guys to f... Seriously. The guy who was going to instigate violence sucks. It sucks he would put you in such harmful position just so he can have fun. Your friend was very smart and protective of you to do that! She definitely deserves a keen eye award.

Be careful when going out at night! It's so much more dangerous as a girl and go with large groups, then keep an eye on each other and make sure you're all safe.

x

I agree with what others have said, so I'll just add one other thing here.  You may have just been looking to make out with some random guy, but for guys that's just the first step to sex.  They're all trying to get into your pants.  So please take these things more slowly in the future.

And a few months ago you were worried about not passing.  I guess that's over now, huh?  :)

Hmm if this is South Africa I'm not sure of the legality?

Quote from: katiej on September 25, 2014, 07:41:48 PMAnd a few months ago you were worried about not passing.  I guess that's over now, huh?  :)

Wait, what!?  If that profile pic is anything to go by, I am amazed the trip to the club was not just to wind down after an evening walking the runway.  ... No... Passing should not be a concern.

*looks for that other thread*

Quote from: Delsorou on September 25, 2014, 08:00:09 PM
Wait, what!?  If that profile pic is anything to go by, I am amazed the trip to the club was not just to wind down after an evening walking the runway.  ... No... Passing should not be a concern.

*looks for that other thread*

I know, right?  From what I can tell, she's gorgeous.  Apparently she's already having to fight the guys off with a stick.  Me?  Not so much.

The number one thing I try to avoid is drunk guys in groups.  Usually the younger they are, the more trouble they can be.

One drunk a*hole I can handle.  "You need to seriously work on your pickup lines, dude."
Often if there is two of them, one probably has more sense than the other.
One in a group of three might have enough sense to assert himself and tell the other two that they're being idiots.
Group of 4 or more?  Avoid at all costs.  More often than not when I hear a story of a transwoman being beaten (or worse), there was a group of 4 or more men involved.  This turns into a pack mentality, the alpha-dog asserts himself and the others try to jockey for status within the group.

Jill, I've heard the same thing.  There's something magical about a group of 4 guys -- especially drunk guys -- that elevates the possibility for danger.

Quote from: Alice Rogers on September 25, 2014, 02:03:36 PM
Really? Isn't it just the guys fault for making assumptions based on societal norms?

No,  it's on you to disclose before., I forget exactly what the charge is called,  I think it's called 'gaining sexual intimacy through fraud'

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 26, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
No,  it's on you to disclose before., I forget exactly what the charge is called,  I think it's called 'gaining sexual intimacy through fraud'

We have one in the U.S. also, but it is never used. Something like "Fraud under the guise of deception for personal gain". Something like that anyway. I have never seen a case filed yet, but damages can be awarded for personal injury and mental anguish and suffering. Weird world huh?  ::)

I saw a case last year in the UK where as I recall,  they were given a suspended jail sentence and 'Community service'  - labour.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 26, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
No,  it's on you to disclose before., I forget exactly what the charge is called,  I think it's called 'gaining sexual intimacy through fraud'

That's ruined my morning.  That ->-bleeped-<- has seriously GOT to change.  Thanks to bringing this to our attention anyhow.

Melanie, I'm really sorry to hear about your crappy experience with those disgusting schmucks.  I have nothing else to add besides what others have said here (especially the comments on passing).

Take care of yourself, hon.

Quote from: Jill F on September 25, 2014, 09:03:49 PM
The number one thing I try to avoid is drunk guys in groups.  Usually the younger they are, the more trouble they can be.

One drunk a*hole I can handle.  "You need to seriously work on your pickup lines, dude."
Often if there is two of them, one probably has more sense than the other.
One in a group of three might have enough sense to assert himself and tell the other two that they're being idiots.
Group of 4 or more?  Avoid at all costs.  More often than not when I hear a story of a transwoman being beaten (or worse), there was a group of 4 or more men involved.  This turns into a pack mentality, the alpha-dog asserts himself and the others try to jockey for status within the group.

Thanks for posting that, it's definitely something to keep in mind when going out.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 26, 2014, 02:51:12 AM
they were given a suspended jail sentence and 'Community service'  - labour.

Ewww, not good.

I think I will get a T-shirt made with "Warning-Enter at your own risk, not responsible for damages".  ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Jill F on September 25, 2014, 09:03:49 PM
The number one thing I try to avoid is drunk guys in groups.  Usually the younger they are, the more trouble they can be.

One drunk a*hole I can handle.  "You need to seriously work on your pickup lines, dude."
Often if there is two of them, one probably has more sense than the other.
One in a group of three might have enough sense to assert himself and tell the other two that they're being idiots.
Group of 4 or more?  Avoid at all costs.  More often than not when I hear a story of a transwoman being beaten (or worse), there was a group of 4 or more men involved.  This turns into a pack mentality, the alpha-dog asserts himself and the others try to jockey for status within the group.

"Once You take out the leader, You have to contend with one or two enthusiastic wingmen. The last two guys... they always run." (c) Jack Reacher
I have done this pre-everything and I can assert that this works. Now, with strenght and aggression loss, it has become more tricky because I would really need to make that decision (and it is always imperative to avoid physical confrontation at all costs - it is imperative), but if pushed into corner... yeah, I can still punch and kick hard (and have waaay much sense in me because T does not blur my thinking). Of course, judging from OP's avatar (and melanie, I told Ya that You are gorgeous months ago... You did not believe) - she would have a hard time in hand-to-hand with grown up guy - still the afore-mentioned quote also stands for target priorities once You decide to pull out Your pepper spray and use it - You should pick our targets wisely (threat, distance, other factors), or else Your risk being intercepted and Your spray taken away from You and used against You.

I don't know what is available in SA but here there are self defense classes specifically for women, taught by women. They can involve weapons or not since a weapon is not everyone's cup of tea (and may not be allowed in a club). They do things like Krav Maga which is Israeli martial arts. There's also a class where they teach you how to use a pen similar to how one would use a kubaton. Most importantly there is situational awareness. I'm not saying go out picking fights but you should be prepared to defend yourself as your last resort.

Hey Guys I'm the friend C. Firstly thank you guys for all being so supportive! Its the first time something like this has happened to us. We are usually very safe and go in large groups but this time Mel and I got separated from the rest as we parked a bit further down from our friends(we went in two cars). Secondly the situation started innocently enough but as soon as I saw and heard the malicious intent of the one guy I tried to get Mel out ASAP. Yea she did have something to drink but I think everything just happened in the heat of the moment and she kinda just went with it. Not her fault at all, its understandable. The guys shouldn't bug her again as I made it very clear I was not impressed. If they do harass her or threaten her I will be there and I will make sure that the university and the  LGBTIA society I am part of steps in! We don't take these situations very lightly! I am still heart broken that it happened to Mel and that I couldn't prevent it from happening but she's safe and much more street wise after this experience.

Quote from: Celestial on September 26, 2014, 09:48:58 AM
she's safe and much more street wise after this experience.

That's all that matters! I have watched her grow here and consider her one of my kids. :)

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 26, 2014, 02:55:15 AM
Ewww, not good.

I think I will get a T-shirt made with "Warning-Enter at your own risk, not responsible for damages".  ;D ;D ;D

I want this shirt!  >:-)

Melanie, I hope things are settling down. You've already heard enough about staying out of trouble, so I'll just say good luck in the future! Don't stop having fun. Don't let this spook you into becoming an introvert. I hope you're able to just learn, adapt, adjust, and keep on having fun. You're beautiful and you deserve to be you :)

Thanks for being there for Mel, Celestial. It's great friends like you who help us find ourselves and learn about ourselves safely.

Celestial, you're a good friend.

As transwomen we weren't socialized with the same safety-conscious limitations that cis women were.  We grow up with the idea that we can go anywhere, do anything, and still be safe.  It's a lesson to be learned.

Krav maga sounds fun.  :)

It's great you have good friends looking after you. Good friends are very important.

I was in a situation at the start of the year. I'm pre-op full time stealth. I live by myself I was very depressed. It was New Years decided to go out and have a few drinks at a local bar and forgot about my life I also was hoping to be kissed, I was lonely, so I dressed up. I Had two drinks and was pretty drunk. I ended up chatting to this guy.  Then ended up going to the beach watching fireworks and kissing him. Anyway that part was fun but it ended up getting out of control and he found out I was trans after trying my best to keep him away from between my legs. I was lucky this  guy didn't hurt me we just parted ways. I then called a friend and got a lift home.

I learnt a big lesson never to put myself in that situation again.  I'm in a lot better place now and have more inner strength.

When your pre-op you need to be careful.

Personally pre-op I would always disclose before any intimacy, unfortunately we live in a world where most people feel deceived and angry if they get involved with us and then discover we are trans and pre-op the chances of them finding out are significant.

I know it's not fair or the way the world should work but I don't want to get beaten into pulp or worse.

I've been attacked on the street as a guy before I came out for no apparent reason, giving strangers a reason feels like tempting fate.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 26, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
We have one in the U.S. also, but it is never used. Something like "Fraud under the guise of deception for personal gain". Something like that anyway. I have never seen a case filed yet, but damages can be awarded for personal injury and mental anguish and suffering. Weird world huh?  ::)

Yeah, kind of like not parking your mule on the street with horses. Or riding a donkey after midnight and so on. Laws on the books in some places but never enforced. Even anal sex in some places is illegal and can incur a fine or a jail sentence. ::) Thank god that one's not enforced or I would be making visits or thrown in jail myself depending on who was in the "illegal position". Never top for me with guys.

I'm with Antonia on this one. I always disclose, either then and there or from afar depending. I definitely don't want any surprises and possibly become just another statistic.

Since this seems to have changed into a thread about telling partners well in advance I should clarify my stance, I didn't mean I would purposefully keep a guy in the dark I was simply stating my incredulity that there is actually a law that could be enforced about it.

As far as a bit of petting goes in a club that is a situation I hope I never find myself in, the temptation to enjoy the moment puts you in a lot of potential danger. That's why I don't go out and get drunk unless I know my surroundings VERY well.

Us girls have to be a bit more level headed than most but to put another slant on it even a cis-girl might have been in the ->-bleeped-<- in this situation!

Quote from: Alice Rogers on September 27, 2014, 05:29:57 PM
Since this seems to have changed into a thread about telling partners well in advance I should clarify my stance, I didn't mean I would purposefully keep a guy in the dark I was simply stating my incredulity that there is actually a law that could be enforced about it.

As far as a bit of petting goes in a club that is a situation I hope I never find myself in, the temptation to enjoy the moment puts you in a lot of potential danger. That's why I don't go out and get drunk unless I know my surroundings VERY well.

Us girls have to be a bit more level headed than most but to put another slant on it even a cis-girl might have been in the ->-bleeped-<- in this situation!

I kind of find that amazing myself in that there is a law regarding it. I doubt that any law would be enforce but it may be an excuse of prosecution to dismiss the case if something violent takes place which sux. Or a way for defense to make us seem like the bad girl in the situation to get their client off. But really not much different than cisgirls being made into the vixen that led the poor guy to rape her or the ciswoman that nagged so much to have been beaten. ::) Just another excuse for the female to be problem instead of the victim.

That is the main reason I say right off the bat or hint or turn down again and again until I can't help it and then disclose. If they keep on coming on again and again usually they wont care and I haven't had that many regrets the morning other than my own. ??? But then again sometimes it has been a WOW moment when I see how cute the guy is. Especially if he cooks breakfast and then wakes me up in the morning with no regrets from him.