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Im starting to fall out of my *supposed* full time ego bubble, im really not, and its depressing me. I pass fine, i mean, i can see i do, others do. but i have this niggling worry, that ill get read instantlyif i go out, its so depressing. i mean, ive legally changed my name, and i use it, my voice is naturally female now, so no avoiding that, and i have obvious breasts and a female figure, but i CANT for the life of me  bring myself to wear obviously female clothes in public, it scares me to death, jeans and a hoodie yes, but its still scary as hell,i constantly worry whenever i go out, its depressing. is there ANY way i can recover some self confidence? its starting to wreck my life....

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
Im starting to fall out of my *supposed* full time ego bubble, im really not, and its depressing me. I pass fine, i mean, i can see i do, others do. but i have this niggling worry, that ill get read instantlyif i go out, its so depressing. i mean, ive legally changed my name, and i use it, my voice is naturally female now, so no avoiding that, and i have obvious breasts and a female figure, but i CANT for the life of me  bring myself to wear obviously female clothes in public, it scares me to death, jeans and a hoodie yes, but its still scary as hell,i constantly worry whenever i go out, its depressing. is there ANY way i can recover some self confidence? its starting to wreck my life....

R :police:

The only way to go behond the fear is to do it! Can you go out with a friend (GG or male) so you will not feel so exposed and built your confidence?
Good luck
HLLL&R
Maebh

Racheal, while I don't doubt you pass.

You get a lot more notice and it is harder to pass if
you wear female clothes, the sexier, the harder it is to pull it off
unless you're both confident and look the part.

When your wearing a hoodie and jeans, you've always got a fallback position, but if your wearing a skirt and heels, with a tank top, well your totally exposed in more ways than one.

Guys and girls with will scrutinize you more, they'll judge how you dress more, they'll judge your body more, basicaly, you have to be confident and not care.

I'm at that point now, and since I'm 6 foot tall and wear 2 inchers all the time when the average height for females here is about 5 foot 3, I get a lot of notice!!! Some very positive, but I do get people who are not sure if I'm man or woman when they see me from towering from afar (not when they are close)

that much i know, im scared to remove my safety net as it were, i want to, dont get me wrong, but im worried, and TERRIFIED ill be stared at, and commented on. and i just hate myself too much to think i can do it :(

R :police:

I think you should go slow. Don't even start with a skirt, go find more feminine tops with brighter colors, more life, and slowly move from there as you get more comfortable, I bet that within 6 months you'll be wearing whatever you want to wear without fear. I

Rachael,

What I suggest is to start with just a short outting. Dress in obviously female clothing, but nothing outrageous. Then plan a short outting. Like a trip to the gas station. Or a convenience store. Something that will limit your exposure. You will see how well you pass and build confidence. Next, try going to a movie. It's mostly dark, you can go to an early afternoon movie where there will be less people. Maybe pick a show that is not all that popular. One that won't have a lot of people.

These short trips will help you build confidence. It's like riding a bike. Once you do it, you won't remember what it's like to be afraid to do it. After the short trips, do some shopping trips. They can be a long as you choose. If you get uncomfortable, you can always just leave. Really it's just about gaining confidence. I think if you start small, you will feel perfectly normal in no time. I know it's scary, but trust me, your worst fears are not going to be realized. Trust yourself.

Love always,
Elizabeth

thing is, i dont need to work out if i can pass, there are people in my friend group at uni who dont know im trans, just female, i look female, even in ieans and a hoodie, but im too scared to loose that safety, and ambiguity in my head, its that i fear if i wear something obvious, ill instantly get picked out as trans. :(

R :police:

How about slowly dressing up to the part by starting off with unisex shirts, then feminine tshirts, then blouses... etc., until your confidence builds up.

It was only a month ago that I went out as fem in daylight for the first time, and since then, I've been spending all my days off work living as female. I may get scrutinized a few times (mostly in grocery stores for some reason), but mostly, people are too busy with their own schedules to really make a fuss.

Its helps that I dress as most regular women: jeans, tshirts, comfy shoes.

If you can pass most of the time, the few times that someone does read you really isn't all that bothersome. You'll likely never see them again.

But I think it just boils down to "do I really care that other people read me." There are many women that would love to look and sound they way you do. Then there are those that get clocked the minute they leave home, and yet, they still brave the cruel world.

I figure, if they can do it, so can I.

Before that first time in daylight, I just stuck to driving around in the car. But one day, I said the hell with it and just did it. Now, it's so easy. And it's a lot cheaper to buy clothes from stores than ebay. And they fit!

Im with you Rachael. It is scary isnt it? Im probably at the same stage. Stuck wearing hoodies and jeans and afraid to take that next step. It feels sickening a bit doesnt it? You talk look and act like the girl you are and pass but there is a need to take that step further right!
I sometimes wish I wasnt a trans girl. But it is my fate and I have to except that.
Maybe its too early for you Rachael. Just take things one step at a time. Dont rush into it. Make a gradual change to an obviously more feminine style. Thats what Im doing.
It feels right for me to ignore the norms and be myself and take things slow. In fact as my tits grow I get more confident. And while it takes time for them to grow Im working on growing my hair out and fixing myself up like women do.
It took its toll on me pretending to be a guy. A lot of wounds need to be healed before I can be happy enough to be confident as who I really am. Then I can step out into the world and not give a crap what people think.

alright, i do have a prolem but i know i can pass, because i have, and i can. i am scared of being read. and thus not passing.
My hair is very female, its always female styled, i really cant NOT have it feminine, the way its cut. but yeah, im working on being more feminine, and expressing this. ive gone from baggyer jeans (which i do still wear) to tighter, more female cut jeans, that show off my figure, i have a shoulderbag all the time i use for my uni books and as a handbag (like most girls here). i guess i have a major case of minimal self worth and paranoia :(

R :police:

'Ditto'

Did I hear you correctly?  you are afraid of being read?  Look young lady, people would have to be mentally insane to see you as other than female.  However, your fears are understandable, for we all go through the same thing...

Big :icon_hug: from me.  :)

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 08:22:29 PM
alright, i do have a prolem but i know i can pass, because i have, and i can. i am scared of being read. and thus not passing.
My hair is very female, its always female styled, i really cant NOT have it feminine, the way its cut. but yeah, im working on being more feminine, and expressing this. ive gone from baggyer jeans (which i do still wear) to tighter, more female cut jeans, that show off my figure, i have a shoulderbag all the time i use for my uni books and as a handbag (like most girls here). i guess i have a major case of minimal self worth and paranoia :(

R :police:

You guys see what I mean? It's always the better looking ones who are paranoid and not tending their garden on their newly purchased property in Bubbleworld. It's the unpassable who are given to delusions.
Rachael, you're in like the top 5th percentile of passable ladies on this forum. I wouldn't worry about it. ;)

Hello Rachel,
   What you are feeling is natural and it's just going to have to be a case of jump in and carry yourself through.  I know it's not as easy as it sounds but it is like anything we try in our lives. I'm sure diving off a high tower for the 1st time would feel the same way. But once you do it 3 or 4 times your nerves relax. I'm at the same point as you even though I get ma'amed all the time while in slacks etc.. I went out for the first time last week in skirt and blouse. Some drunk offered to pump my gas (it was 2 AM or so) and his wife told him to leave the poor girl alone he's probably scaring her (meaning me) and she was only 5 or so feet away from me. But still diving into the second time was unnerving too, but it was a bit easier as I am sure my third time will be even a bit easier as well. So you see, just keep up your confidence and remember it takes time to settle the nerves completely.
                                                  Kim :angel:

Rachel,

I would put Confidence and lack of Paranoia up with the key things that go with a sucessful transition.

No matter how well you pass, your voice sounds, attracting undue attention is not what any of us want. This brings stress, undue pressure and you can in a second blow anyones perception of how they view you.

I went through a phase when anyone looked at me, smiled or nodded, I went into defensive mode,assuming I had been read, or people where inwardly laughing at me, that was never the case, just my own Paranoia.

You feel happy and secure in what is effectively androgynous clothes, but you cant spend the rest of your life wearing these, fine as a student, but venture out into the World of work and that is not what normal women will wear.

Only you can work through these problems. Admitting you have a problem is a big step and I know that you have not seen a Physchiatrist or had counselloring yet, this is an important point to discuss. It is like any fear, it can be overcome, but you have to find that deep inner strength to do so and take that leap of faith.

This is not about clothes, but about your perception of how you appear to others, thats what you need to work on, gaining the confidence that people do see a woman and losing the paranoia that they dont.

Buffy

(Who went through the same issues)

Thankyou for the kind words guys, i dont think i quite qualify as the top 5% of passable girls on here by a long stretch! but thankyou. Buffy is right, it really doesnt help that i dont have a therapist or phsych, because im waiting on the natiional health service to let me see one, which is going to be 5 years wait. (the gender clinic is half a hours walk from my house, the irony!) And as my parents threw me out, i have next to no money, so private is out of the question completely :(. I really need to work these issues out, i mean, when i finally pluck up the courage to do this properly, then ill be fine im sure, most things seem worse than they are. Although my inibility to get over my fear sometimes makes me feel like i might be wrong about all this, and plants seeds of doubt in my head, that maybe if i cant just go out and be happy, that maybe im not really how i feel? its scaring me to death >< because i couldnt ever go back to what i was. :embarrassed:

R :police:

Quoteit really doesnt help that i dont have a therapist or phsych, because im waiting on the natiional health service to let me see one, which is going to be 5 years wait. (the gender clinic is half a hours walk from my house, the irony!) And as my parents threw me out, i have next to no money, so private is out of the question completely Sad

Rachael,

I don't know how it is in the UK, however when I was seeing my therapist in USA for gender issues, I was uninsured. She offered a sliding scale for fee to make it possible for me to get therapy. Also, it can be considerably cheaper to see a licensed social worker or psychologist than a psychiatrist. Good luck finding someone.

Zythyra

theres only really russel reid whos private, and hes 200 a hour flat rate, which i simply cant afford. so im stuck :(

Quotetheres only really russel reid whos private, and hes 200 a hour flat rate, which i simply cant afford. so im stuck

Ouch, that's a lot of cash, whether it's pounds or dollars! Maybe you can see if he has a 15 minute rate  ::)

zythyra

Rachael is there a TG support group that meets near you? That would help to break the isolation, also somebody else there might have been in a similar situation and found a sympatetic therapist? Might be worth the try?
Hang in there and good luck.

HLL&R

Maebh

trust me, theres nobody whos available soon, and sympathetic to anything but lots of cash...
and no, no support groups, tbh, i dont really want to meet up with other people going through this, i need professional help with my issues, id prefer to avoid the community irl tbh...
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 07:35:24 PM
thing is, i dont need to work out if i can pass, there are people in my friend group at uni who dont know im trans, just female, i look female, even in ieans and a hoodie, but im too scared to loose that safety, and ambiguity in my head, its that i fear if i wear something obvious, ill instantly get picked out as trans. :(

R :police:

It sounds as if you are confident you can pass as androgen. It seems when it comes to actually looking seriously female, you are worried you won't pass. What other fear could you be talking about? You think the more you present an expectation of being female, the closer people will look and you will be scrutinized much more than you currently are.

I mean, sure if you dress really sexy in heels and basic black dress with full makeup you are going to draw attention. Guys will be trying to get a look and other women will be looking for faults. It's the woman's world. Don't you think all women hate this scrutiny? Many women will deliberately dress down just to not draw unwanted attention. Who wants to get all fixed up just to get a gallon of milk? Sometimes you don't want to look good, you want a bowl of cereal.

The thing is, you need to build confidence and the only way to do that, is to go out dressed totally female and see what happens. Eventually this will happen, but you will decide when. You can do it now, or you can do like me and wait until you are 42. But let me assure you, eventually the need will force you to be who you are and you won't care what anyone thinks. I wish there was a way I could make you see you already have the power to do this, but I guess like the rest of us, you will find your own way.

Love always,
Elizabeth

heh, i dont think i pass as androgynous, or that that takes much effort tbh, I guess if i play this game long enough, hrt will make me un readable, as its already steaming towards this paticular port. maybe the waiting game is win?

R :police:

Security is in your mind Racheal, you're already unreadble, fear will not go away until you face them.
Good luck.

Whether it is passing, having people think we are pretty or smart or funny, if we set ourselves up to be how otrhers define us, we are surely setting ourselves up to the path to suffering. The problem is not whether we pas, whether we are pretty, or smart, or funny, it is that we place so much importance on it. Let go, be yourself, concentrate on loving yourself and easing the suffering of others.

The self conscious mind will suffer.

Posted on: August 11, 2007, 07:51:28 AM

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Quote from: Rachael on August 10, 2007, 07:55:31 PM
heh, i dont think i pass as androgynous, or that that takes much effort tbh, I guess if i play this game long enough, hrt will make me un readable, as its already steaming towards this paticular port. maybe the waiting game is win?

R :police:

My belief is that virtually no one is unreadable, I refuse to get into a discussion about it because most (especially Westerners) are not able to understand my concepts, but regardless, as I said, those who set up themselves up to give the power of contentment to people they encounter in day to lday ife, people they do not even know, are setting themselves up for a lifetime of suffering.

QuoteSo, am I to assume your are following this to a T in your daily life?

You can be assured that I strive to do so in my every conscious moment. Not only that, it goes to the core of how I attempt.to live my life.

QuoteI don't want to say that NO ONE is completely passable since...

Nor would I, I said virtually unreadable. So there could be an exception, the term "unreadable" really sets an impossible standard. I will not be drawn into defending beliefs that have been formed after much careful thought and can't be understood by most people, I have very strong intuitive skills that have been proven to be accurate time and time again. I will say that if one is trans and the thought even crosses ones mind that she is trans, there is someone, some where, sometime who can "read" her. I have worked with women who were in the deepest stealth mode that is conceivable that I have clocked. Luckily, I am not the type to betray confidences.

I concur with the bulk of what you have to say, Gina, especially that Rachel is cute and that time is on her side OTOH based more on what she says than her avatar, I can't see her in a prom dress. :) If she goes femme, I see her more as Goth, perhaps, or some out there alternative look, she's got a lot going for her but setting herself to constantly let every passerby define her and wanting to achieve "unreadabilty" is a recipe for failure.

Gosh, even the most passable transwoman I have ever seen on a mainstream show (Jessica Lam) on Larry King last night could be clocked by the discerning because of her voice (even though it was very, very good!)

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
Im starting to fall out of my *supposed* full time ego bubble, im really not, and its depressing me. I pass fine, i mean, i can see i do, others do. but i have this niggling worry, that ill get read instantlyif i go out, its so depressing. i mean, ive legally changed my name, and i use it, my voice is naturally female now, so no avoiding that, and i have obvious breasts and a female figure, but i CANT for the life of me  bring myself to wear obviously female clothes in public, it scares me to death, jeans and a hoodie yes, but its still scary as hell,i constantly worry whenever i go out, its depressing. is there ANY way i can recover some self confidence? its starting to wreck my life....

R :police:

I think your right Rachael, You sound like me. Wear what feels comfortable at the moment and don't worry about pushing the boat out........I rarely wear skirts to the pub (only a few times in a short denim one) and I mostly wear jeans and slightly feminine tops like the purple one I wore last week (see my pic).

If you dress down a bit it works and highlights your feminity....more like a white dot on a black background......I've seen a lot of TS's who go overboard and are read.....

The jeans are fine but a hoodie in this weather......you must be sweating...lol.....try a fem plain T shirt with a sweetheart neckline and then work up your confidence towards the other stuff..

mellissa: youve not met many trans people then i assume, as most who pass flawlessly, rarely stay in the community. I know its possible, i know two of them. shes tall, but thats it, and its what im aiming for, well, atleast passing well enough for non trans people to even think about it. ive had 'what? no way!'s when my housemate accidentally told her bf, he had no clue about me ><
and yeah, goth is sorta me :D
Berliegh: if i do that, its obvious. unless i wear a jacket too. as any teeshirt on me is usually fairly formfitting, and my boobs aint exactly small ><

R :police:

Melissa, maybe thinking somebody is trans, and being sure is not the same thing. If everybody you think is trans is then confirmed as trans (by asking or other means), then that's something else. For my case, my figure and face is very very passable, but because I'm 6 foot tall I'll get people wondering if I'm man or women anyway from afar once in a while (once a month lately), where my height stands out, and my facial features don't help much (most time it happens outside and when someone approaches me from the back). Inside, in closer quarter, in doesn't happen.

Anyway, I'm sure Racheal's clockable by maybe 1%, and then they may not be sure (like in my case). That should be quite enough to feel secure enough to wear a T shirt in public without fear.

Quote from: Keira on August 11, 2007, 05:08:53 PM
Melissa, maybe thinking somebody is trans, and being sure is not the same thing. If everybody you think is trans is then confirmed as trans (by asking or other means), then that's something else. For my case, my figure and face is very very passable, but because I'm 6 foot tall I'll get people wondering if I'm man or women anyway from afar once in a while (once a month lately), where my height stands out, and my facial features don't help much (most time it happens outside and when someone approaches me from the back). Inside, in closer quarter, in doesn't happen.

Anyway, I'm sure Racheal's clockable by maybe 1%, and then they may not be sure (like in my case). That should be quite enough to feel secure enough to wear a T shirt in public without fear.

Keira, that is actually perfectly normal for tall GGs. There are ftms with high voices, ultra curvy bods, who are mistaken for men until somebody looks closer at them, due solely to their height.
My step sis is 5'9 and she gets the looks. It's just something tall women have to deal with.
Though I know it's harder for Ts women than GGs, cause you're hoping they don't notice something that ends up getting you read.

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
Im starting to fall out of my *supposed* full time ego bubble, im really not, and its depressing me. I pass fine, i mean, i can see i do, others do. but i have this niggling worry, that ill get read instantly if i go out, its so depressing

R, i've only been on HRT for 1 week, so i still only pass as an adrogyne.

but i try to go to a Trans or GBLT club every week, and girl-dance my head off.

it's good to be oot & aboot, in your girl clothes (whatever they may be) to be in a safe place, with other peeps like yourself

and girl-dancing is really, really, really fun.

-ell 

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 11, 2007, 07:54:16 PM

Quote from: Ell on August 11, 2007, 07:48:33 PM
R, i've only been on HRT for 1 week, so i still only pass as an adrogyne.

but i try to go to a Trans or GBLT club every week, and girl-dance my head off.

it's good to be oot & aboot, in your girl clothes (whatever they may be) to be in a safe place, with other peeps like yourself

and girl-dancing is really, really, really fun.

youre lucky there is like no way to do that where i am 

wha??  there should theoretically be a Trans or GLBT club within 50 miles of anywhere in the U.S.  or, at least, as Karen says, a GL club, nevermind the B or the T...  when you show up, you make it GLBT.

Quote from: Rachael on August 11, 2007, 02:31:46 PM
mellissa: youve not met many trans people then i assume, as most who pass flawlessly, rarely stay in the community. I know its possible, i know two of them. shes tall, but thats it, and its what im aiming for, well, atleast passing well enough for non trans people to even think about it. ive had 'what? no way!'s when my housemate accidentally told her bf...
an<

R :police:

I live in an area with 8 million people. I am not going to suckered into an argument about my truth. Passing flawlessly means one thing to you and quite another thing to me. I have thirty years of life experience over you and many people here. (Of course, that means nothing to the self-absorbed Gen Ms and Xs) Please don't question my truths. My truths are my truths, not yours. People's perceptive abilities vary greatly, even before my FFS, I had lots of "No way" experiences while I could have clocked myself a mile away. Now even though there is no such thing as unreadability, it doesn't matter. Angst over passing is the number one cause of suffering among trans people and even if you achieve this delusional goal, you will start craving for yet another delusion. It's all just one vicious cycle of suffering and bad karma. Self-conscious cravings can lead to nothing but suffering. Try finding an unpassable transperson and make her think she passes, that is more productive than self-absorption.

Posted on: August 11, 2007, 09:29:57 PM

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Quote from: Keira on August 11, 2007, 05:08:53 PM
Melissa, maybe thinking somebody is trans, and being sure is not the same thing. If everybody you think is trans is then confirmed as trans (by asking or other means), then that's something else. For my case, my figure and face is very very passable, but because I'm 6 foot tall I'll get people wondering if I'm man or women anyway from afar once in a while (once a month lately), where my height stands out, and my facial features don't help much (most time it happens outside and when someone approaches me from the back). Inside, in closer quarter, in doesn't happen.

Anyway, I'm sure Racheal's clockable by maybe 1%, and then they may not be sure (like in my case). That should be quite enough to feel secure enough to wear a T shirt in public without fear.

The point is that focusing all this energy on passing equals giving up one's power to strangers. Anyway, talking about passing on trans forums reaches a point of futility after awhile and I think that point has been reached as far as what I have to say on the subject. I can only try to use my little bit of wisdom to guide people toward the right path. I cannot force right-mindedness on those whose ego will not allow it.

erm, well to me, being seen as nothing but female is what i need. so its a big issue to me.
and how dare you suggest because your older, your wiser. and that simply because you could clock yourself (most can btw) that you can clock anyone. Also, convinceing an unpassable m2f they pass is NOT better. its forceing them into the bubbleworld that is so dangerous. if anything, helping them Actually pass, is more helpful...

I was thinking something tonight, why not make this into a game? i mean, while i was working tonight, i was dressed androgynously (long sleeve tee, baggy jeans, and bound breasts, but with feminine hair, and nail polish, and the funny looks got amuseing to a point. If i can make myself see this as a game, maybe i can boost my confidence and almost 'trick' myself into doing it? once i can, i wont need to pretend anymore, and it will be? or not :(

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 12, 2007, 01:01:24 AM

I was thinking something tonight, why not make this into a game? i mean, while i was working tonight, i was dressed androgynously (long sleeve tee, baggy jeans, and bound breasts, but with feminine hair, and nail polish, and the funny looks got amuseing to a point. If i can make myself see this as a game, maybe i can boost my confidence and almost 'trick' myself into doing it? once i can, i wont need to pretend anymore, and it will be? or not :(

R :police:

Dont ever treat this as a game Rachael, this is real life and serious stuff, you need to present Female, the more you play at this the more confused people are going to get. Your safety is of upmost importance.

Find the courage you need to do this, dig deep into the paranoia and park it in a place in your brain where it is not playing tricks on yourself or other people.

You need to get on with being the full time girl you are, dont spend the rest of your transition being scared of what other people think or what you think they are thinking.

Develop the "Dont give a ->-bleeped-<- " attitude I know you have when it comes to your public perception, unless you do the monsters in your mind will always be around the next corner to haunt you.

This is not a game for sure.

Buffy

i know its not a game, but i meant in terms of visualising it as such, when i play games, i tend to want to win or play. i dont see transition as a game, im just searching to find ways that i could get past the fear... turning it inside out. Im grasping at straws i guess, it just worrys me so much, why am i so afraid of being seen as trans? :(

R :police:

Rachael,

All fears have to be faced and confronted otherwise they cannot be overcome.

If you wish to go out and remain in an androgynous state, that is of course your choice, but the key thing about RLE is to present in public and sociably as a woman, which does not include binding your chest and wearing overly gender neutral clothes.

All of us have faced the fear in early transition of being read, not being passable, ridiculed and indeed embarressed in public places as people see us as men dressed as women. We struggle with our voice and mannerisms..... BUT keep going out as it is what we truly want and HAVE to do as part of the process, wether society sees us as men, women or transsexuals.

I know of people who have been in transition, gone to Charring Cross and changed into Womens Clothes to go to their appointment, because they could not face the prospect of being embarresed out in Public. That is wrong and they not only decieve the therapists but themselves.

If you truly want to transition, become a woman, you have to cross this bridge, by making that leap of faith. As I said I know you have not had therapy, counselloring that will be an important step. living 24/7 is a pre-requirement to any kind of surgery, hiding from yourself (and society) because you have a fear of being labelled Transsexual has to be overcome to reach that final goal.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Buffy

to be honest, im not in RLE, of any kind, as i dont have anything to oficiate it or any therapist.
however, i do live as a female day in. abeit, an androgynous one. i have friends that only know me as female. one of my housemates didnt know for 2 weeks of living with him before i came out to him. I bound my chest at work mainly, because i work in a highly public job (bar work) and its too scary and too much too soon to present overtly female. otherwise, i just wear baggy hoodies. Its gettign to a point where i cant hide this however. my hips, breats, bum, etc are makeing themselves known. and i just have too much on my plate to deal with right now to deal with extra stress, im trying to survive, to stabalise myself as independant now that i have no parents or family to help me and support me financially and emotionally. anyway, is it not the woman that makes the clothes?

heck, if i cant throw on a skirt and blouse i must not be a transexual if i dont want it bad enough to not care.... :(

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 12, 2007, 05:11:13 AM
to be honest, im not in RLE, of any kind, as i dont have anything to oficiate it or any therapist.
however, i do live as a female day in. abeit, an androgynous one. i have friends that only know me as female. one of my housemates didnt know for 2 weeks of living with him before i came out to him. I bound my chest at work mainly, because i work in a highly public job (bar work) and its too scary and too much too soon to present overtly female. otherwise, i just wear baggy hoodies. Its gettign to a point where i cant hide this however. my hips, breats, bum, etc are makeing themselves known. and i just have too much on my plate to deal with right now to deal with extra stress, im trying to survive, to stabalise myself as independant now that i have no parents or family to help me and support me financially and emotionally. anyway, is it not the woman that makes the clothes?

heck, if i cant throw on a skirt and blouse i must not be a transexual if i dont want it bad enough to not care.... :(

R :police:

Rachael,

Hopefully you know by now that I dont subscribe to the skirt and flowery blouse brigade, that is not an issue with me and obviously not an issue with you.

I think you have summed up your problems above, you are doing this outside of the recognised system, you have no professional help, you have not had any therapy, I guess you have not had an official sign off for HRT from a recognised Gender Physchiatrist.

As well as the above you have deep issues with your family, your university education, how to support yourself, which again you need help and support / counselloring for these issues.

No one is saying that you are not transsexual, but I feel with the instability and issues you currently have in your life, some that are not within your control, you may have taken on far to many things and no wonder you are stressed.

You do need help, your PCT can arrange counselloring (I did this for my issues with my family) and I am sure Sheffield University have a Student health scheme.

It is not a question of whether you are transsexual and should be transitioning. It is trying to do this outside of the recognized system and with the issues you currently are facing, those are deep issues that need resolving for both your mental and physical welfare.

Buffy

Quote from: Rachael link=topic=17522.msg136301#msg136301
Berliegh: if i do that, its obvious. unless i wear a jacket too. as any teeshirt on me is usually fairly formfitting, and my boobs aint exactly small ><

R :police:

Hi Rachael..........I thought a white or black plain coloured girls T shirt would be fine if you don't want to be too adventerous with your clothing at the moment. You can also wear jeans and trainers.......I don't know if you carry a bag or not.....I have a small one with a long strap which looks fairly casual. When I originally started off I had a nike bag which is a good idea and is fairly androgenous....

I personally think you look female in your pic and don't think you need to worry too much..

I know how you feel and you want to retain credability until you feel you are ready to take things further.....



Posted on: August 12, 2007, 08:09:18 AM

---

Quote from: Buffy on August 12, 2007, 05:01:34 AM
Rachael,

I know of people who have been in transition, gone to Charing Cross and changed into Womens Clothes to go to their appointment, because they could not face the prospect of being embarresed out in Public. That is wrong and they not only decieve the therapists but themselves.

Buffy

I've seen that going on Buffy, guys changing in the toilets and unfortunitely those are the people put forward for Gender Re-assignment surgery......

Some of us are long term gender dysphoria, abide by the rules, HBSOC protocols, live RLT for over 5 years.......and still get screwed over by the NHS system...

tell me about it ! :P

yeah i do carry a bag, fairly andro one but still i need the space! lol!
about the teeshirts: im curvey, i have stickey outy bits like boobs and hips, anything female cut accentuates them, so anything female looks obvious! ><

R :police:

Come on! Try pulling the other one  :D

Quote from: Rachael on August 13, 2007, 05:42:46 AM

... im curvey, i have stickey outy bits like boobs and hips,

Without hormones?  ::)

Quote

anything female cut accentuates them, so anything female looks obvious!

So what's the problem?  ??? I think a lot of MtF TGs would looove to look like that!  :D

LLL&R

Maebh

PS:  What does your navel look like? Just wondering with all the gazing...  ::)  but not to worry; eventually your bum might get too sore... >:D

Hi, Rach.

This is not about how you look, or even how you dress is it? There is a little something else you are not able to place on these posts. Right?

Buffy and Regina may be headed in the right direction in saying it's about your own belief in yourself. As I recall, that is an enormous undertaking. All the physical and a lot of the mental work is accomplished, but there is that one final step and the transitioner is just petrified of facing it.

So regardless of how good and passing you look to us, your internal tape is still playing uncertainty: you wanna know exactly what everyone who comes into contact with you REALLY sees and thinks. Right?

It's a toughy to get through. But, plunging into the water or tiptoeing in an inch to check how cold it is are both pretty decent tactics. Truth is what Buffy said. Fear just has to be faced. However you feel is best for you to do so is the only way through this.

Try the short outings or just brashly start being Rachael. It matters not. I imagine when you do face it, you will find that the fear was not nearly as big and bad as it looked from where you are right now. That tends to be the way with fear: as you become intimate with it, you realize that it really isn't very well hung at all.  :embarrassed: 

HUGS,

Nichole

Quote from: Rachael on August 12, 2007, 01:01:24 AM
I was thinking something tonight, why not make this into a game?

Speaking from experience, it can lead to YOU not taking yourself seriously. It's STILL a form of hiding, not totally committing, being half-way. True, it works to get you out there, but it's also difficult to shake once you get used to that crutch.

I hid in androgyny for a long time. But things got to a point where I was being read as a female more often than a male (no matter what I wore), and it just became less awkward to go for it and hope I passed. I WANTED to go fulltime for months before that, but I was too scared to try it until HRT kinda forced my hand.

That's where my "I'm Kate regardless of what happens!" mantra got started. That's how I survive out there. Busted or not, I'm still Kate. Being read just means someone figured out I was born male... and that's all. It *doesn't* mean that I'm not a "real" woman. Yea, my chromosomes are xy (I think). So what?

People seem to reflect the attitude you bring with you. If you think it's a game, they will too. If you think it's embarassing, they will too. But if you just present yourself matter-of-fact, like it's no big deal, they won't think it's a big deal either.

From The Turning Tide (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14202.msg107120.html#msg107120):

Quote
Then I watched Brothers and Sisters the other night. They apparently had a scene where a gay couple was having dinner, and the one guy kissed the other in front of everyone. Afterwards, the kissed guy made it clear he didn't much like that, making up excuses like him not liking public displays of affection.

The kisser laughed, and told him something like, "Look, YOU have a problem with homophobia, as crazy as that sounds. I bet you're active in the community? I bet you're out to your family. I bet you're even out at work, and they all accept you, don't they? You're comfortable EVERYWHERE with all this... when it's safe... except you're not comfortable IN YOUR OWN SKIN. That's why you don't want to be seen in public as a gay man."

Ouch. I broke down, sobbing, that's just SO me. That's my story, how I've been hiding, scared, afraid to really, truly COMMIT to this.

So monday I said the heck with it. Enough. I just don't CARE anymore. We'd gone shopping saturday and bought tons of super-feminine things, so I threw together a nice outfit, said the heck with the neighbors, and went to work *undeniably* as Kate. No chance of "well, it MIGHT be a feminine male top" or any of that half-hiding nonsense. I parked in the most crowded part of the lot, next to another office. I made my rounds with everyone in the office. It was uneventful, but I didn't KNOW it would be. I proclaimed myself, shrugging with a "Whatever. This is me now" attitude.

The irony is, it was later that day when I dressed so frumpy, not caring about passing anymore... when I got that external validation, lol... and realized I HAVE been getting it all this time. Not that I pass all the time, but it's obviously happening SOME of the time. But I don't think it's going to be my life's goal so much anymore. Something in me has shifted, some tide has turned... and I can't wait to see where it's carrying me now.

~Kate~

A lot of women have these problems.  Do you have any girl friends you can discuss this with?  I know very few women who haven't had body image issues at some point in their lives.  Plus they might be able to help you as far as encouraging you, while at the same time make sure you're not trying anything that will just look wrong on you.

But I'm sure all you really need to do is shop around more for tops, and maybe some jeans and you'll be good.  I wear hoodies and jeans a lot too(though my apartment is cold), but I usually wear a nice t-shirt or tank top underneath, and most of my hoodies are zip up.  And I have like...no breasts, ha.  Which I think for you is some of the problem(you have breasts, but your as insecure having them as I am about not having them).

I would say you probably just need to talk it over with your friends.  That would be the cheapest, and possibly most effective thing for you.

Rachael, Lots of people on here have already told you this I'm sure but I've seen your photos and you look dead passable to me. OK you may not make the front page of Vogue, but neither will millions of women. Your looks are improving all the time - guess you're on HRT.
Listen, let me tell you, I'm much more scared than you to go out dressed as myself, when I do it's very low key, unisex almost apart from undies(!) and of course some light makeup, and it's invariably dark out. God knows why I do it! And daylight freaks me out!
But I know that if I looked as good as you I could do it.
Hope this helps,
Best wishes, Louise

Quote from: Rachael on August 13, 2007, 05:42:46 AM
tell me about it ! :P

yeah i do carry a bag, fairly andro one but still i need the space! lol!
about the teeshirts: im curvey, i have stickey outy bits like boobs and hips, anything female cut accentuates them, so anything female looks obvious! ><

R :police:

Rachael you confuse the hell out of me...........if it looks obviously female that's good isn't it or don't you want to transition? as this is where your coming from and the sound of the post above.....if you don't want to look female and you don't like your boobs showing....don't transition...

Quote from: regina on August 14, 2007, 08:25:15 AM
Not to speak for Rachael, but being insecure doesn't mean you don't want to transition. Remember, she hasn't even seen a therapist yet (no NHS tirades, please). What it also points up to me is that, so often on Internet sites, one encounters a lot of bravado about how female someone is, how well they pass, it's all amazing, yadda, yadda, and that has only a cursory connection to all the complexity of what's happening in the real world. We see each other with the names of our target gender, a photo (perhaps us, perhaps not... or if it is indeed us, then not always the most objective photo possible) and we connect to that image and persona and make a lot of assumptions about their lives based on that very limited exposure we have to them.

I just want to thank Rachael for being honest about all that's going on with her. Talking about what she's experiencing here is worth more than 10 threads going on and on about some gender theory. Good for her!

ciao,
Gina M.

All the therapists I saw were rubbish and lacked knowledge........you have to go out there and do it for yourself........I used to be like Rachael but you have to push yourself....no therapist or psychiatrist is going to do that for you...

Quote from: regina on August 14, 2007, 11:58:51 AM
I know you have a lot of bitterness toward the NHS and the professionals who were your 'gatekeepers.' I get that.

...Gatekeepers?.....time wasters...stalling patients for up to 10 years...more like.....I lost 7 years of my life wasted with those at CX GIC.....and now I'm pleased to say that they are currantly under investigation from the GMC and the department of health.

Since disgarding that part of the NHS I have been able to get on with my life and move forward with my transition and try and catch up on the lost time.....

A lot of people do not realise they are not needed and do not have any form of treatment program or timescale......I jumped through all their hoops.....complied with their protocols, RLT and the HBSOC.....they did not.....I strongly object to the word 'professionals' as it doesn't apply to them......a course at the 'Royal society of psychiatrists' does not make them an expert or a 'professional' in 'gender dysphoria'........they are just middle to old aged men who know nothing about what it's like to be female.......


 

I Rachael. I know what you mean about how scary it is to go out. I've helped a few friends with this. As for my own experience, I guess I was a bit gustier than some. I just dived in, and found out that was the only way I could do it. I did the androgony thing for a bit, a month or so, but then just dived in. It went easier as time went on. Now I'm just over a year living full-time.

One thing that is important to do is to set up a net work of friends and supporters. That can help in times when things seem overwhelming. Also, knowing a girl or two who can help you shop and give you some direction is good. It takes time, but you'll get through it.

I know some people who tried to prepare up to the last minute, trying to get every detail before going full-time. Still, no matter how much you prepare or sit on that edge it doesn't replace what you learn and experience going full time in your correct gender. Go about it unapologetically, and never let fear control your destiny.

--natalie :)

Quote from: gothique11 on August 14, 2007, 02:43:29 PM
never let fear control your destiny.

Except perhaps the fear of never getting to live your Truth ;)

~Kate~

thanks for the kind words everyone.
Gothique: well id say 70% of my friends are female, and about 90% of my close friends. The getting ready thing, i cant see being a problem. when im myself, im perfectly female in voice and manerisms and behaviour, its whats so confuseing, im so damn lucky, but i cant transfer this to courage enough to try to pass day to day, i desperately want to, but i desperately couldnt live with beeing a '->-bleeped-<-' or seen as such. it upsets me a lot. i dont know why im dithering such, it must seem nuts. and gina your right, a profile photo means nothing to irl. :(

R :police: