Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, first of all, a few details.
I've had MtF feelings since I was about 3-4 years old. Over the years it started with some small things. (When I played with my sister I often pretended to be a girl, when I played video games I often picked female characters, and in general I was just plain different. Then, it grew more and more serious over the years, until I finally decided, on a certain night, that I couldn't continue normally.) I came out to my mom on 30/4/2014.
Anyway, I won't go too deep, but my mom reacted very positively. Very, very positively. I consider myself to be very lucky here. Anyway, the first thing she did was tell my psychiatrist. I've had my psychiatrist for more than 4 years. Then, I was directed to my local doctor, and then I got an appointment for the 7th of October.

I waited some 5 months, and then, something fun happened. The day before the appointment, my mom was suddenly called by some people from my hospital. The 7/10/2014 appointment was cancelled because my doctor had some college thing going on. I got very depressed for a whole day after that, since at that point I had serious trouble with going on in general, and I had felt excitement and hope that day (until the appointment was cancelled).

Then, several days later another phonecall appeared, and I was told that the appointment had been moved to 14/10/2014.

So, today I went there with my mom. Felt the same excitement and hope again. Everything went fine, up until the point where I had to talk to my doctor. At first she seemed nice. We were introduced, that stuff. Then, I had to tell her my story. So, got that over with, and then she explained what was going to happen over the next few months, (about 6-8 freaking months of diagnosis, then HRT could start if they approve) and then she started asking questions. Yeah, some basic, skeptic questions. Not that strange, considering that a transition can't be reverted, and they have to be sure or whatever. But when I answered her questions, it was noticeable that she was only paying attention to the small details that could somehow possibly point to my case being fake. She wasn't even rude. But I felt like I was being attacked, considering that it's not fun to be a target of extreme skepticism on your first appointment already. The best part was when she told us "The final decision will be made by us, but it can differ with a patient's wishes.". It was pretty damn visible in her eyes, and how she spoke, that she wasn't even going to consider my case, she was already looking forwards to declining me any form of HRT after these 6-8 months. My mom actually brought that doctor's behavior up when it was bothering me, so it wasn't just me imagining things. Meanwhile, I've been depressed constantly lately, and now that doctor seems to be trying to ruin my future.

Hi Sophie  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

Please be sure to review

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by  (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)
  
• Post Ranks ( including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
  
• Age and the Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62197.msg405545.html#msg405545)
  
• Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)
  
• Photo, avatars, and signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)
  

Hugs

V M

Welcome Sophie to Susan's family.

If your not happy with a therapist then maybe it's time to move to another.

We have a right to get un bias treatment based on our degree of GD.

Not every therapist understands these degrees and wants the one size fits all.

Wish you well in your path.

Hugs

Not all doctors are trans-friendly, and many don't have a freaking clue how to treat a dysphoric patient.  Most doctors are so afraid of malpractice suits that they don't venture out of their comfort zone.  Doc's decision is hardly final (and wow, the ego on that one!). 

I would find a different doc that has experience with trans patients ASAP.

Best of luck and hugs,
Jill

Quote from: Jill F on October 14, 2014, 05:18:22 PM
Not all doctors are trans-friendly, and many don't have a freaking clue how to treat a dysphoric patient.  Most doctors are so afraid of malpractice suits that they don't venture out of their comfort zone.  Doc's decision is hardly final (and wow, the ego on that one!). 

I would find a different doc that has experience with trans patients ASAP.

Best of luck and hugs,
Jill

The problem is, it IS a doctor with experience.
It's a whole department in the hospital that focuses on gender dysphoria.
That doctor apparently just decided from the start, after some 3 minutes of talking to me, that she doesn't like me and that she's going to try to decline me from getting HRT.

Quote from: SophieTrop on October 14, 2014, 05:22:30 PM
The problem is, it IS a doctor with experience.
It's a whole department in the hospital that focuses on gender dysphoria.
That doctor apparently just decided from the start, after some 3 minutes of talking to me, that she doesn't like me and that she's going to try to decline me from getting HRT.

Please tell me it was Johns Hopkins Hospital?

The gender unit there is awful. The doctor that interviewed me was hostile and his views were antiquated. And he is a world famous psychiatrist.

Even if it wasn't JHH, my experience goes to show that even a dedicated hospital unit can be staffed with dangerous people.

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 14, 2014, 05:47:44 PM
Please tell me it was Johns Hopkins Hospital?

The gender unit there is awful. The doctor that interviewed me was hostile and his views were antiquated. And he is a world famous psychiatrist.

Even if it wasn't JHH, my experience goes to show that even a dedicated hospital unit can be staffed with dangerous people.

Actually, it was the VUmc.  :( (In the Netherlands)
(Also, thank you everyone for all the greetings and stuff.   :D )

My therapist was somewhat prickly in the first session or 2. We needed to get to know each other a little.

And, something to remember for all those saying 'get another therapist' is that we've heard one side of the story..

6 to 8 months seems too long to me but that would be better than a a direct NO I guess. It does sound like you need to find a different doctor.

Sophie, welcome to Susan's.

If you can contact a LGBT center and ask for information. If possible they may know of a trans support group geared to your age group.

I know my group has a lot of information and knowledge and we compare information and support each other.

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 14, 2014, 07:03:11 PM
My therapist was somewhat prickly in the first session or 2. We needed to get to know each other a little.

And, something to remember for all those saying 'get another therapist' is that we've heard one side of the story..

........and not everyone can afford to hire and fire a string of therapists......

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 14, 2014, 07:35:09 PM
........and not everyone can afford to hire and fire a string of therapists......

That too, Devlyn.. And not everyone has the ability to either. But some live in places where the law can restrict your choices..

In the UK your doctor has only one job with regards to gender dysphoria and that is to refer you to someone who is qualified to make that call.

Maybe your doctor is just trying to prepare you for disappointment?

no, i don't think that's the case. this is a doctor at a gender identity clinic after all...

in some countries, those national gid clinics do nothing to help trans people, and instead act as not only gatekeepers, but even break down many transgender people and maltreat them. full binary transition is not for all, forcing it on someone should be considered maltreatment.

transitioning in some places in europe can be mentally taxing, stressful, harmful, and demands a whole lot of patience.
laws and regulations some places ensure that you'll be referred to one specific clinic where you won't be able to chose your own doctor.
procedures are often in line with some decades old books that the medical "professionals" have read.
"transgender experience" in those places often mean nothing more than the schizophrenia experience a lobotomist has.
they just follow established procedure, without considering how potentially harmful it can be to often over half of the patients who seek help.


it probably isn't an illusion that this doctor is trying to change people's minds.
transition is a life changing medical procedure that most people would regret (kind of obvious, as most people are cis, not trans).
transgender care is not what they do. all they seek is to limit the numbers to the number of patients their surgeons can take.
and make sure that nobody will go through it who isn't willing to risk unrealistically bad complications and stuff.
many will also try to convince someone who isn't the archetype of a transsexual man or woman, that they aren't really trans.
or they'll just reject them because they don't fit the ridiculously narrow group who has a lawful right to transition. (anyone else can just go kill themselves for all they care, i suppose)

it may not be this bad in the netherlands, but it's best to be prepared for a whole lot of uncomfortable questions, accusations of not being trans enough, and waiting time. at least months of it.
whenever i feel like it, i might try to read through this report which explains the situation in the netherlands better (from 2011):
http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/netherlands0911webwcover.pdf (lazy people can just scroll down to page 11 and 19)
this organization's description of their purpose also tells a lot: http://transgendernetwerk.nl/over-tnn/english/
they have changed civil law to make it easier to change legal gender, but that doesn't mean that health professionals have changed their attitude towards transgender people and proper procedures. and the law still requires transgender people to get an expert opinion (whatever "experts" you can find in that country) in order to change their legal gender.

in the end, doctors at the two gic clinics in the netherlands have all rights to dictate a trans person's future. they may deny a patient that expert opinion if they don't go for the full package.

not all that much better than norway.

It's true. The two genderclinics in the Netherlands (similar as the one in Belgium but even more exclusively it seems) are the one place to go. Difficult situation because you only get one opinion. Although I do get the impression that they aren't 'bad' they're not good for everyone. I'm not sure about VUmc but Ghent seems to be more open recently to non-full packages.

I'd wait and see until the next appointment, maybe even explain to the doctor if you can that you felt attacked? I also get the impression both Ghent and VUmc tend to push and pushing back seems to be what gets them to listen. It's as if sometimes they are sceptic to see if you'll start doubting as well or stick to your idea, I don't think that's a good policy but I've heard of several guys and girls that suddenly started moving when they said 'Hey! I AM a guy/girl, even though I might not fit your silly box'.

I also don't want to say wrong things but I know Belgium and the Netherlands are in the same line and I do believe they don't often just say 'you're not transgender' after those months. It tends to be more about waiting and longer therapy. So I doubt she would just deny you HRT.

I really hope you find your way. I don't know if you have that possibility in the Netherlands but In Belgium it's a well kept secret that there are seperate specialized psychiatrists and even endo's. If it really doesn't work out you may want to look into it, you will have to go to the clinic at some point in the process though. But maybe as an inbetween solution... Enjoy your mom's acceptance and use her support! I really hope your next appointment will be better.

I don't understand. How can diagnosis possibly take 6-8 months? And what recourse do you have if you do everything they say, and they decide to deny you treatment?

I think you should get in touch with some trans-women in your area who have maybe been to that clinic or others nearby and ask them about their experiences. See if maybe there is a better clinic out there, if other clinics do things differently, or if going to that clinic really is the best option. Just a thought.

Quote from: Mara on October 15, 2014, 06:51:29 AM
I don't understand. How can diagnosis possibly take 6-8 months? And what recourse do you have if you do everything they say, and they decide to deny you treatment?

I think you should get in touch with some trans-women in your area who have maybe been to that clinic or others nearby and ask them about their experiences. See if maybe there is a better clinic out there, if other clinics do things differently, or if going to that clinic really is the best option. Just a thought.

It takes so long in the UK because the appointments can be a month or more apart, it took me a year to go from first appointment to hormones but that was only about 8 or 9 appointments!

Alice
xx

Quote from: SophieTrop on October 14, 2014, 06:21:50 PM
Actually, it was the VUmc.  :( (In the Netherlands)
(Also, thank you everyone for all the greetings and stuff.   :D )

That's awful, Sophie. My experiences in the UK under the NHS haven't been a whole lot better, the system here doesn't cater for nonbinaries at all.

One thing to be aware of is that a lot of doctors turn into eugenicists when dealing with intersexed patients, and transness does kind of fall under that umbrella. You can tell when you're dealing with a eugenicist because they lack compassion, and you get a kind of vibe off them. You really want to avoid that kind of doctor, because at best they'll deny you treatment, and at worst they'll actively try to harm you. In your position I'd trust my instincts, these people probably really aren't interested in helping you. Probably your best bet is to find a local trans support group and see if there's anyone who's been through the mill, and can tell you how to play the system so it works in your favour.

Quote from: Taka on October 15, 2014, 06:23:07 AM

whenever i feel like it, i might try to read through this report which explains the situation in the netherlands better (from 2011):
http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/netherlands0911webwcover.pdf (lazy people can just scroll down to page 11 and 19)

Wow. Sorry about the thread hijack, but I don't think what's in that PDF should pass without comment:

"Second, transsexual people must prove that they have become irreversibly infertile: trans women must never again be able to beget children and trans men must never again be able to bear children. This is a separate requirement from the first requirement. Moreover, unlike the first requirement this second requirement is absolute: while the first requirement of bodily alteration may be lifted in whole or in part when there are medical or psychological contra-indications for surgery, no such circumstances can be relied upon in relation to the second requirement of irreversible infertility. This second requirement is often referred to as the "sterilization requirement," but this label does not in fact quite capture the drastic nature of the requirement: ordinary sterilization techniques used for family planning purposes do not suffice, since in principle these are reversible. Hormone treatment alone is also insufficient: while it often leads to infertility, it does not necessarily result in permanent and irreversible infertility. In practice what is required is the removal of the ovaries (trans men) or testes (trans women), unless there are, for example, pre-existing medical conditions that have resulted in permanent infertility."

So much for European enlightenment. If I'm reading this right, the Netherlands has an official policy of nazi-style sterilisation of trans folk. I think that's absolutely outragous, and I'm just wondering if there's anything those of us on this forum can do to change that.

Heh xD. I read it and thought that it was about the VU in the Netherlands. They are pretty harsh there and it feels like a very hard job interview to get trough. I went there exactly the same as how I look on my photos. Where on the streets people would call me ma'am, she would ask me if I was even ready for going full-time. I really hated it, but I can also understand it. I heard so many stories of people getting HRT online or even trough the VU, and stopping after a couple of months. It isn't a healthy process for your body but it is for your mind. They just really have to make sure this 'really' is what you want.

Why it has to take so freaking long, god knows. Why they need 8 appointments or more, no idea. You might be a year further till they finished up everything and you really got the hormones to start with. After my green light I still had to wait two months. ->-bleeped-<- happens, and it is annoying if you really want something and are ready for it. But there is already so much you can do before starting with hormones and I personally find it surprising how many already take hormones before even living as a woman.

Don't take these months as time to wait for your hormones. You see the end of the tunnel so go there and enjoy the (bumpy) road to it :D!

In Australia the GP generally should refer you onto someone such as a Psychiatrist who is qualified in diagnosing Gender Dysphoria. Unfortunately I've heard a qualified Psychiatrist is far and few between, so there is often a waiting list.

My journey has been an interesting one, my Psychiatrist has been able to diagnose Gender Dysphoria, yet still has taken three months to endorse the use of hormones. He has diagnosed Atypical Gender Dysphoria. In the meantime my GP who is experienced in HRT I think got fed up of waiting for him so just prescribed anyway. She could see I was clearly well informed and could see I was Gender Dysphoric. I suppose she new that one way or another I was going to do it, so best it was through a supported means. I get my letter from the Psychoatrist next month lol.

But I would imagine a lot of GPS would be uninformed or simply reluctant to make a decision out of fear of making the wrong one. I would suggest a new GP and also ensure you are fully informed and display that when speaking to medical professionals.

Quote from: BreezyB on October 18, 2014, 12:30:55 AM
In Australia the GP generally should refer you onto someone such as a Psychiatrist who is qualified in diagnosing Gender Dysphoria. Unfortunately I've heard a qualified Psychiatrist is far and few between, so there is often a waiting list.

We actually have a decent population of psychiatrists here in Aus.. The issue is how many of them have any clue about trans people.. 

QuoteMy journey has been an interesting one, my Psychiatrist has been able to diagnose Gender Dysphoria, yet still has taken three months to endorse the use of hormones. He has diagnosed Atypical Gender Dysphoria. In the meantime my GP who is experienced in HRT I think got fed up of waiting for him so just prescribed anyway. She could see I was clearly well informed and could see I was Gender Dysphoric. I suppose she new that one way or another I was going to do it, so best it was through a supported means. I get my letter from the Psychoatrist next month lol.

I'm somewhat bemused by the recent appearance of the 'Atypical Gender Dysphoria' diagnosis.. The only typical diagnosis would come from someone who trotted out the standard narrative and had a therapist too dim to realise it.. But then, some of us don't have any kind of GD diagnosis..

QuoteBut I would imagine a lot of GPS would be uninformed or simply reluctant to make a decision out of fear of making the wrong one. I would suggest a new GP and also ensure you are fully informed and display that when speaking to medical professionals.

Two things here.. In Australia, GP's have, historically, no training in gender issues - and no doctor likes to try and treat something they know nothing about. The other thing is, Androcur requires a PBS authorisation in order to be covered by the PBS. I'd be surprised if too many GP's know the blanket auth number..  The difference in price between the private prescription and PBS pricing is over $100 a box..

I totally agree Kelly, lots of Psychiatrists, only a few with knowledge or experience with transgender. At least in Western Australia. I know, atypical diagnosis is amusing me too... But oh well, if that's what he needs to sleep at night then doesn't bother me, as long as I get that letter lol

Quote from: HughE on October 17, 2014, 04:18:16 PM
Wow. Sorry about the thread hijack, but I don't think what's in that PDF should pass without comment:

"Second, transsexual people must prove that they have become irreversibly infertile: trans women must never again be able to beget children and trans men must never again be able to bear children. This is a separate requirement from the first requirement. Moreover, unlike the first requirement this second requirement is absolute: while the first requirement of bodily alteration may be lifted in whole or in part when there are medical or psychological contra-indications for surgery, no such circumstances can be relied upon in relation to the second requirement of irreversible infertility. This second requirement is often referred to as the "sterilization requirement," but this label does not in fact quite capture the drastic nature of the requirement: ordinary sterilization techniques used for family planning purposes do not suffice, since in principle these are reversible. Hormone treatment alone is also insufficient: while it often leads to infertility, it does not necessarily result in permanent and irreversible infertility. In practice what is required is the removal of the ovaries (trans men) or testes (trans women), unless there are, for example, pre-existing medical conditions that have resulted in permanent infertility."

So much for European enlightenment. If I'm reading this right, the Netherlands has an official policy of nazi-style sterilisation of trans folk. I think that's absolutely outragous, and I'm just wondering if there's anything those of us on this forum can do to change that.

Liek said before it's just changed but in Belgium (where I live) policy is still in place. Although we do expect it to change as soon as the government wants to start spending time on usefull stuff again.