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OMG! Other atheists exist? I don't really call myself an atheist because its not a term I really think about too often, but I don't believe in god. I was actually wondering a couple of days ago if I was the only one in the world who didn't believe in god because I've never met anyone else. Well, I could count my dad, but even he will say he's not sure.

So, how many of you really don't believe in god, and how did you come to this conclusion. Please talk to me. This is like discovering that I am not the only human in a world among elves. Or maybe it's the other way around.   

Whereabouts in the world are you? Some places are a lot less religious than others.

I think I've always known there's no god, or at least I can't remember believing in such soncept at any point. Always preferred the theories and explanations science provided.

You don't have to DISBELIEVE in a god to be an atheist just not actively BELIEVE their is a god. I have no reason to believe there is a god (much less a specific god or belief system that goes with that). Sure, their are things in the universe that are unexplained or may even seem miraculous but just because we don't know the answers yet to mysterious things, doesn't mean there is a super natural answer.

There are many assumptions that have to be made to get to a belief in a particular god or religion
1.- Is there a god? if so, how is he defined?
2.- Did it create the universe or is it just another powerful being that we don't understand?
3- If it created us and the universe, does it give a rat's ass about humans?
4.- If it cares about humans (because we're so special) does it care about us as individuals or mainly as a species?
5.- If it cares about us as a species or individually, what does it hope or expect from us?
6.- If it cares about us individually, does it care or desire of us to spend our time and resources praising it?
7.- Has it ever communicated with humans? It seems that if it created us, it could program our DNA to have desires for things it wants. For example: Humans are repulsed by rotting flesh, diseases, etc.,     because those things would have killed our ancestors if they had not been repulsed.

And the list goes on and on.  So many things you would have to believe (without any evidence) to get to the point of believing an entire religion.

Aaaaaaah, this old question  ;)
I I'm more closely aligned with atheism than just about anything else, buy I have to ask where did you get the idea that God/or Gods and goddesses don't exist?

I personally believe there is no divine and that deity's are of human origin but does that make them any less real?

If a billion people believe in the same god and ideals that that God represents the influence of that God is still very real and thus that God is still very real, even though only exists in the minds of its followers. In my eyes it's better to treat religion as a very powerful and very real force, even if it is not divine

Quote from: FTMKyle on October 14, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
So, how many of you really don't believe in god, and how did you come to this conclusion. 

Well I have to confess not to know for sure. I mean if there were an omnipotent being he could easily make it look like there was no god. But if I had to put my chips on one side of the table, I'd bet heavily that there is no god.

Why do I think that? Because we typically don't observer supernatural events. We hear all sorts of tales from all sorts of people, but they all seem to occur in situations where they can't be objectively verifiable. In objectively verifiable situations, things seem to behave according to very strict rules of cause and effect and no cosmic intelligence is in evidence.

I do have my doubts about atheism, however, when I look at the delicate nature of life. In order for life to perpetuation, it needs a genetic code (like DNA), a way to extract that information without destroying it (like RNA polymerase) and an aparatus complex enough and reliable enough to create a new copy of the life form from the genetic code (like a ribosome). When I think of the chances of those three entities simultaneously coming about randomly in the same place, some form intelligent intervention starts seeming plausible in comparison.

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 15, 2014, 08:50:55 AM

I do have my doubts about atheism, however, when I look at the delicate nature of life. In order for life to perpetuation, it needs a genetic code (like DNA), a way to extract that information without destroying it (like RNA polymerase) and an aparatus complex enough and reliable enough to create a new copy of the life form from the genetic code (like a ribosome). When I think of the chances of those three entities simultaneously coming about randomly in the same place, some form intelligent intervention starts seeming plausible in comparison.

But that would beg the question, "where did that intelligent intervention come from"?

Quote from: JessicaH on October 15, 2014, 08:56:46 AM
But that would beg the question, "where did that intelligent intervention come from"?

Well, that's the problem with atheism, isn't it? Makes it much harder to answer where any of it came from. Not sure which is harder to swallow. That the universe was created by some intelligent being of indeterminate origin, or that it just "came about".

I stopped believing when my father died when I was 15. I hadn't been devout, but I'd believed there was a God out there looking after me. But, despite being raised catholic, I have doubts ranging back to age 7, when I had my first panic attack over what happens when you die and the fact that everything ends.

Poor thing. You must be from the same sort of place I am. I often feel like I'm the only atheist in the entire state, lol.

I've never believed, despite being around it plenty growing up. It just never made sense to me, and for a long time, I thought adults didn't believe it either. That it was something like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Something they just told kids to give them an incentive to behave.

I had doubts, I was dragged to church every Sunday and I'm sure that this tired me out further with religion. I told my dad I'm not Catholic anymore and I haven't went to church since with the exception of going to my grandma's 1 year death mass. I expect the next time I'll be there is when someone dies.

I believe in possibilities.  It is possible, that any or all of the gods and/or goddesses of established religions exist.  But the religions themselves I largely view as social clubs more than related with the divine.  I respect the good works done by some of them, and the good people who are members of some of them.  But I can't in all good conscience imagine joining one.  And I abhor the damage their existence does and the hatred spewed in the name of religion.

Myself, I am a spiritual person.  I have reached out before and thanked a perceived presence for things that have happened.  Was that presence my imagination, or the spirit of my father, or warrior from a spirit realm, or a 2000 year old flying carpenter?  Dunno.  No evidence either way, but I was still grateful.

If there are spirits in this world concerned with human events however, I think they must be human created.  And therefore definitely not its creators.

Nice to be able to talk freely about this.  I usually avoid religious topics like the plague.

I personally don't care. I don't exactly believe, but I don't think about it either. I just don't care. I think people believe in God just to give them a sense of stability in that, "where do I go when I die?" set of mind. It helps them make sense of the world and stay calm. I stopped believing, however, when I started learning about the Big Bang just around the same time people started shoving, "God created the universe" in my head. I couldn't believe, in no possible way, some flying guy on a cloud created the entire universe in six days and took one to rest. Science backs up the Big Bang, religion doesn't have anything to back it up. I honestly believe religion came from a time when people were a bit stupid and believed anything (Salem Witch Trials for example) and some smart guys decided to write a "Holy Book" called the Bible and told people if you don't believe this you'll go to bad place called Hell and if you do you'll go to some great place called Heaven and they were believed and hence religion was born.

The main reason I don't these days is because of the anti-gay stuff. If God created EVERYONE as they are and makes no mistakes and the things that person does and the paths they take are all in Gods plan, why are they homosexuals if it's such a bad sin or abomination? Either there are supposed to be homosexuals and people need to stfu or someone seriously butchered that part.

I wouldn't exactly call people back then stupid, it's just that religion originated in a primitive time, when science and technology were in their infancy. People understood very, very little about the world they lived in, and therefore they were more inclined to believe supernatural explanations for the things they witnessed. It's a lot easier to dismiss the possibility of an afterlife now that we know about things like evolution and neuroscience, but back then, people didn't know how any of that worked. Back then, people didn't even know what the brain's function was. The expressions we use now about feelings being in our hearts came from a time when people literally believed all their thoughts and feelings came from their heart and not their brain. Needless to say, we've come a long way since those times.

I don't care if there's a god, either. I see no compelling evidence to suggest there is, and I don't see the point in believing in something just for the sake of believing. If there is a loving god out there, it wouldn't care how often I read some religious text or went to a church or any of that other stuff. It would only be concerned with how I measured up as a person. And I believe I am a good person.

I never really believe in a god growing up and honestly finding out that santa didn't exist probably pushed me over the edge into atheism. Although I did go through a period where I believed in supernatural powers! lol Im embarrassed to admit it but I kind of thought for a while that I had physic abilities! But after multiple failed attempts at levitation I pretty much gave up and became a skeptic! A great quote that basically sum up why I'm an atheist is by Tim Minchin "Throughout history every mystery ever solved has turned out to be not Magic." Thats by his song "Storm"

Never believed in that crap even sitting up in those pedo's church as a kid if I was not lmfao at those nuts to falling asleep in those hard wooden pews from boredom.... It was comedy to me


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This is kind of complicated for me. I think that god exists subjectively, but not objectively. That is to say that I think that for those folks who choose to believe in a creator figure, their teachings, and live their lives accordingly... they make that figure real. For them. But in terms of an objective "This chap made everything you see around you and so on and so forth..." no, I don't subscribe to that view. I am more inclined to believe that people make god in their own image, rather than the other way around.

As far as what point did I believe that... pretty much my whole life.

I remember sitting in church while I was 8 years old wondering if God was just another Easter Bunny or Santa Clause. My faith didn't really start dying until I was about 15 years old, even then it went kicking and screaming. It wasn't until recently that I have atarted calling my self an athiest.

My parents had me baptized in the Episcopal church, but they didn't take it too seriously: one of my godmothers was Swedenborgian, the other was Jewish, and my godfather was Russian Orthodox.

We never went to church, but my older brother went through a religious phase in his teens and went every Sunday for a while. He insisted on dragging me along once when I was five. I don't remember the service, but I vividly remember what happened in Sunday school. We were modeling animals with clay (this was in California (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefiringline.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Frolleyes.gif&hash=0a0b44ad1de7ecfd5b4be1ab5919f433c770be5f)). I had been reading The Jungle Book, and the one animal I could actually make from that was Kaa, the snake. The teacher came along, got all excited, and started telling me some story about a garden, an apple, and two kind of dumb-sounding people. I got on my five-year-old high horse and told her that had nothing to do with MY snake, Kaa. She insisted on going on with this stupid story about a "serpent" which was supposed to be evil.

I was furious, and when we got home I told my parents that I was never ever going back. That was the end of religion for me.

And yes, God is exactly like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny -- just not as cuddly.

I'm not exactly an atheist, but there are certainly plenty of gods and deities that I don't believe in. 

While I was a cultural anthropology major in college, I studied religion extensively, as culture and religion go hand in hand.  One human universal is that we all question where we came from and where we go after we're gone without enough evidence given for definitive proof.  The fact is that all of mankind shares an origin and fate, yet there are likely as many nuanced religious views as there have been human beings that have ever walked the earth; therefore I can respect everyone else's religious convictions as long as they do not call for sanctioning others for being in disagreement.  I'm a "live and let live" kinda gal.

So, put me down as atheist/agnostic/science fan/pagan.   Legends, mythologies, blind faith and things that get lost in translation just don't do it for me. 

At least I'm convinced that the earth exists and that we should take far better care of it.

QuoteAt least I'm convinced that the earth exists and that we should take far better care of it.

Yes, indeed -- we have honest-to-Go actual evidence for this, which makes all the difference. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefiringline.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fwink.gif&hash=fd49c1687b59c0ea097a7b4f1ed562a996fdaf5c)

when i started questioning and reading and learning

My family is / was rather religious  (basically my grandmother was) . Like many of us, I was naive enough to pray to God to turn me to a girl...until puberty, when it was obvious my dream wasn't going to happen

If we are the product of intelligent design then the designer must have had the mother of all hang-overs the day he designed humans.

"Oh ->-bleeped-<-, I've put the drain holes for sinuses at the top. That's never going to work. Bugger it nobody will see them anyway. Oh worse! No air access to the lungs. Damn  it, I'll just use the same tube food goes down. Can't see that causing any problems."

There is no evidence that persuades me that there is a god. I'm not saying there isn't because that would be no more valid than  asserting that there is. At what age did I become an atheist? About 20 or so.

What do you mean by that God is not real? Of course she's real, and she's black. Take a night off, go far away from any lights, literally like 30, 40 miles from nearest enlightened town, and look around... mostly up.

When I was a young child my patents were Christians, we went to church with their friends, and we went to church kids groups, and later a Lutheran school. I am also fairly sure that I have been baptised. That being said, I can't say exactly how old I was, because I feel I was simply too young to remember.

I do remember, however, that in early grades of primary school, I got in trouble for telling kids at school that god isn't real. In kindergarten, I was thinking with the mind of a teenager, eg, we made ttelevisions out if carboard boxes, and on each of my channels was a different of our teachers (the hot ones) dancing naked. Highly inappropriate for a 4/5 year old, but I had also already learned how to manipulate situations to get my way and lie to get what I want.

I wish I could say I never believed in god, or the idea of God's at all in my own case,  but I know that I must at some stage have believed it, simply because it was taught to me since birth. But it is definite in my memory that I did not believe in God from the age of 10.

I was street preaching for a Pentecostal church in my late teens and got faced with a series of questions

Q. Is it true that god says its wrong to see suffering and do nothing?

A. Yes

Q. Is it true that god is all seeing and all powerful?

A. Yes

Q. So is it true that god can see all suffering and has the power to end the suffering but allows it to continue?

A. ERM.......

Over the following days and weeks my faith crumbled

Im from Sweden and i Think we are classified as the most atheist country in the world or something like that. So I never believed in god for as long as I can remember and none of my friends or classmates did either. And no one ever went to church or anything, at least not that I know of. Only time you spend in a church was if someone was getting married, we don't believe in god but we get married in the church for some reason. I guess it only has to do with tradition.

Anybody still here? Atheism subforum seems pretty dead.

Anyway, I'll throw in my experience, in case anyone is still around.
I wasn't raised religious at all so I was mostly a blank slate religiously, but growing up in the U.S I defaulted to a vague notion of the Christan God. I found criticisms of religion as I began exploring the Internet as a young teenager, and began wondering. Soon after, I came across Wicca and paganism, and was interested, and then I ended up with a group of friends who were exploring pagan beliefs and practices, so I ended up being pagan for a while.
I always thought critically of beliefs so over time, more and more of my beliefs shifted towards secular ideas, and even moreso as I found out several of my pagan friends outright lies about supposed mystical occurrences.
I had been trying for years to experience the spirituality others supposedly experienced to no avail, yet I held onto my beliefs anyway.
Eventually I just let go.

Learning the history of religions helped, too. Religions always claim to be absolute truth, and yet they change their ideas when old ones are disproven(Worse yet, sometimes they don't). That and the idea that a god that began as just a god of a specific people, Hebrews/Jews, is somehow the one true God and created everyone and everything is kind of odd.

Quote from: Terra13 on June 23, 2015, 10:42:48 AM
Anybody still here? Atheism subforum seems pretty dead.

Yes still here and still a Humanist!  Being an announced atheist may subject one to further harassment, proselytizing and enmity from believers.  There are apparently no declared atheists elected to national office in the usa??  Yup there may even be discrimination at work, gasp;-)  I think that's funny as the fundamentalists (of all kinds) will often see themselves as the persecuted minority.

Your experience seems familiar in that we are often exposed to the lies and hypocrisy of the righteously religious.  That happened for me as a child and colored my perceptions.  I was literally beaten by catholic nuns, (the brides of christ) lied to and hurt by priests.  I witnessed near constant abuses of power and outrageous claims.  I became very cynical in puberty realizing "gods plan" included a life of torment for being a sissy girl in a boys body.  I could go on but suffice it to say I was once angry about organized religion and the suffering that results.  Now I have decades of life free of the nonsense about what "gods plan is" or if I can make it to heaven.  The apologists and those wanting to rationalize the ignorance of centuries are legion.  I am happy to consider the dustbin of history is filled with discarded religious"truths."  Yesterdays dogma is todays dog do do.   It really is OK not to have all the answers and therefore welcome new discoveries that help us know more of the cosmos and the human condition.  Live free!

Quote from: Terra13 on June 23, 2015, 10:42:48 AM
Anybody still here? Atheism subforum seems pretty dead.

Suzi present and accounted for.  :)

Quote from: Terra13 on June 23, 2015, 10:42:48 AM
Religions always claim to be absolute truth, and yet they change their ideas when old ones are disproven(Worse yet, sometimes they don't). That and the idea that a god that began as just a god of a specific people, Hebrews/Jews, is somehow the one true God and created everyone and everything is kind of odd.

It's this sort of analysis that tends to move me toward atheism. I call myself an emphatic agnostic (I think the Origin of Things is unknowable), but if I had to bet my money either on (1) God being a creation of man to fulfill a need, or (2) God being an actual reality, I'd go firmly in the direction of (1). Seems a far more likely explanation.

I actually ended up becoming an atheists while in church. I was 18 just got done with calculus class and my church ended up trying to prove the literal creation story, and they came up with some number like 1/some massive number (without showing how they came up with the number), and those are the odds that a planet would be able to sustain intelligent life. To me, a kid who just took a high school math class, the number that they put up told me that not only was it possible, but it was actually very likely that it would happen multiple times given the estimated size of the universe. They somehow came to the conclusion that in our universe that could never happen because they fail to understand basically math and science....

Then the truth of them not understanding or down right ignoring science became super obvious to me.

Their own lessons did the rest. I was taught by them consistently that if the creation story isn't true then the rest of the bible can't be true either. They said the bible stated it was God breathed and you can't pick parts to believe and not believe other parts. I actually agree with that. Unfortunately they use that logic to do massive mental gymnastics in order to believe that the book is factual and they use it to hurt so many people, rather then using real critical thinking and looking into their own beliefs.

I'm here, but I'm a Jesus freak

I wouldn't say that I realized that god is not real, because that implies certainty.  I would say that I realized that there's no good reason to believe in a god or gods.

Quote from: Tessa James on June 23, 2015, 12:16:58 PM
There are apparently no declared atheists elected to national office in the usa??  Yup there may even be discrimination at work, gasp;-)  I think that's funny as the fundamentalists (of all kinds) will often see themselves as the persecuted minority.

Politicians like to pander to religious people at least a bit, or at the very least they try to avoid alienating them, so even if we had an atheist politician they probably wouldn't identify themselves as such. For all its supposed progressiveness, the U.S. is still a surprisingly religious country.

Quote from: Tessa James on June 23, 2015, 12:16:58 PM
Your experience seems familiar in that we are often exposed to the lies and hypocrisy of the righteously religious.  That happened for me as a child and colored my perceptions.  I was literally beaten by catholic nuns, (the brides of christ) lied to and hurt by priests.  I witnessed near constant abuses of power and outrageous claims.  I became very cynical in puberty realizing "gods plan" included a life of torment for being a sissy girl in a boys body.  I could go on but suffice it to say I was once angry about organized religion and the suffering that results.  Now I have decades of life free of the nonsense about what "gods plan is" or if I can make it to heaven. 

That's terrible, I'm so sorry you had to endure that sort of thing so young in life. Unfortunately things like this are all too common. I hope you've found more peace in your life since then.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on June 24, 2015, 03:56:17 AM
I wouldn't say that I realized that god is not real, because that implies certainty.  I would say that I realized that there's no good reason to believe in a god or gods.

I'd say the two are one in the same.
I mean, sure, technically we can't know with 100% certainty that God/gods is(are) not real. But so far as I'm concerned, there's no more reason to believe in a god than there is to believe in a giant invisible radioactive pig monster if someone tells me there's one standing outside my window. And I would say that I'm fairly certain that pig monster is not real, enough where I could say with confidence that it's not real. But that's just me.

I feel like religion is afforded much more leniency than any other myth, superstition, etc. just because there is still a large number of people who believe in it, but I wonder if it would still be given so much leniency if not for the large following.

Quote from: Terra13 on June 24, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
Politicians like to pander to religious people at least a bit, or at the very least they try to avoid alienating them, so even if we had an atheist politician they probably wouldn't identify themselves as such. For all its supposed progressiveness, the U.S. is still a surprisingly religious country.

That's terrible, I'm so sorry you had to endure that sort of thing so young in life. Unfortunately things like this are all too common. I hope you've found more peace in your life since then.

I feel like religion is afforded much more leniency than any other myth, superstition, etc. just because there is still a large number of people who believe in it, but I wonder if it would still be given so much leniency if not for the large following.

There is no denying the historical, cultural and social significance of organized religions.  There is value in being part of a shared community and I once loved singing in the choir.  The largess afforded religious institutions in the USA through tax codes means that we subsidize them and that helps to ensure the nonsense will continue.  We can appreciate the good some believers evidence but the overall damage is incalculable.  Consider the impacts on reproductive freedom alone and it just doesn't add up as a net benefit IMO.

I appreciate your kindness relative to what is "all too common" but my heart and mind are no longer troubled by myths and I am at peace with my past.  Part of working through that was to find a different way to be in communion with others without recourse to the supernatural or magical thinking.
  I found that in the Humanist philosophy and was a local chapter leader at one time back in the 80s.  Part of our social justice action was to be physically present and assist people running the protesters screaming gauntlet at clinics that provided reproductive care, including abortions.  Talk of rabid terrorists reminds me of one encounter when the faithful were bused in to overwhelm us at the Lovejoy clinic in Portland.  We needed the police to protect us from "the love of god" as the protesters described themselves.  Yes, save us from that love!

Quote from: Terra13 on June 24, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
I'd say the two are one in the same.

Nope.  Not the same at all.  Saying "I don't believe in gods" and saying that "There are no gods" are two completely different things.  The latter is an assertion of the absolute non-existence of gods.  That would be gnostic atheism.  The former would be agnostic atheism.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on June 29, 2015, 09:59:15 AM
Nope.  Not the same at all.  Saying "I don't believe in gods" and saying that "There are no gods" are two completely different things.  The latter is an assertion of the absolute non-existence of gods.  That would be gnostic atheism.  The former would be agnostic atheism.

No reasonable hypothesis requires a divine being, but it's true we can't say definitively that there is no divine being any more than we can say there isn't a teakettle orbiting Mars.  We're quibbling over how bad the odds are, but there's at least a 1 on the other side of that betting proposition.  As a practical matter, I do feel quite confident betting against divine beings, teakettles orbiting Mars, or giant radioactive pig monsters based on essentially similar odds and I tend to view the reservations as more philosophical than useful.     

Having said that, certain specific religions can be definitively excluded from consideration.  There is no conceivable scenario in which the xian god actually exists, for example.  If you have to plagiarize your origin story from somebody else, you've failed one of the requirements for divinity pretty much by definition before you even got started.     

I don't know if its proper for me to replay because I'm a deep believer in God, but I will. To me it's just plain common sense. whether or not we are the only ones occupying empty space(which in it self is quite cool) or there is an infinite progression of life through out an even more infinite void there is something that is giving us  a magnificent ride and I like the idea of giving thanks for that ride.

Quote from: Jayne on February 27, 2015, 06:19:18 AM
I was street preaching for a Pentecostal church in my late teens and got faced with a series of questions

Q. Is it true that god says its wrong to see suffering and do nothing?

A. Yes

Q. Is it true that god is all seeing and all powerful?

A. Yes

Q. So is it true that god can see all suffering and has the power to end the suffering but allows it to continue?

A. ERM.......

Over the following days and weeks my faith crumbled

This played a large part for me.  And the belief that if I was a model Christian, and asked God for something repeatedly I would get it.  At some point I realized that would never happen.

I would go as far as saying god is not real.  I think it is likely god does not exist, but if a creator does exist, it does not influence the world in anyway.

In many ways I just don't care either way, as the belief or disbelief has no bearing on my life.

as far as the question as to if there is a God why does not God intervene, to me the answer is simple, God created the best model for life to exist, the good the bad and the ugly. God's hand is there for everyone when their time is up. God so loved the world. You need Hurricanes to balance the forces of the weather . It's just all physics . God just happens to be a brilliant physicist. All right I'm going I think I'm derailing. sorry.

Stephanie, yes, you are derailing. We non-believers stay out of the religious threads as a matter of courtesy to those who post in them; I think we can expect the same level of courtesy from believers.

Thanks for understanding. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefiringline.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fsmile.gif&hash=2c5a4907e2673dfa63557696254abe82f5c9641e)

I came from an extreme religious family. My biomother forcefed it to me to the point of me rejecting it completely. From what I have heard, scientists found Jesus and Marys tombs so that part seems accurate but as for "god" bah-humbug! Religion is a man-made thing so "god" is too.

Quote from: DanielleA on June 29, 2015, 05:42:39 PMFrom what I have heard, scientists found Jesus and Marys tombs so that part seems accurate

With respect, I find such reports to be worthy of the supermarket tabloids.  For centuries churches and cathedrals were supposedly built with pieces of the real cross, saints bones, sacred relics and other weird items of veneration.  We still see "news" programs around easter and xmas that speculate on finding noah's ark and yes, the tomb.  They make for great ratings and maybe even entertainment but hardly true.

No scholarly evidence exists in the archeological record of the so called jesus character and he may have been entirely invented by a real chronicler from that era named Josephus Flavious in a campaign to evict the Romans.

Many very similar "prophets" preceded the jesus character in antiquity and virgin births were seemingly more common in those days too;D  I find jesus stories every bit as convincing as stories of zeus, thor, the easter bunny and santa claus and similarly relevant to today's concerns. 

Hi,
Uhm well I guess this year I slowly started to question my beliefs to its core again.
I for much of my childhood only believed in God in reality as a hedge against going to hell, Besides for the Afrikaans culture being linked quite heavily to Christianity, I have always tended to dislike simple answers such as, cause its Gods plan, or God did it.
I probably became an Atheist back in 2009 I think and converted back into Christianity because being afraid of hell (though I never became a literalist), I think I maintained being a 'Christian' because you tend to think well everyone says they are, so maby it's a good thing, but I never really believed the Christian opinion as superior to modern science nor philosophy, so again its kind off my fear of hell I guess lol.

This year my tilting point was, I was discussing the body transplant with my father and he suggested it might not be Gods plan, I thought this to be a rubbish point and yeah it kind off went from there, reading and watching materials available to me swayed me back to agnostic atheism.

I am atheist to the Bible because simply, its texts are not more knowledgeable than modern philosophy, nor scientific and many things are just plain 'stone age' to the time we live in, so besides for cherry picked lines it does not add value to my life. I also reckon a truly intelligent God would understand full well I cannot believe just out of fear of damnation, this would not be sincere nor constructive to my life, I mean I don't obide by the traffic laws because I am afraid of getting caught, I do so because I understand that they are there to protect myself and the other parties involved.

I cant remember where I got this quote, but it sums it up I guess.
It's not free will when the choices are between heaven and eternal torture.

Nella357.

I for myself ever knew this "god" that people here talked of, and their religion ... thats sick and not real, so I never came in contact with it and never believed it is real ...

When did i stop believing?   Around the age of 8, me and my sister used to go to the church down the street from us.  I would see all the neighbors there or most of them.  And i noticed they acted different at church then in real life.  I would go home and ask my mom why would people act really religious on sunday and not the rest of the week. She told me what a Hippocrate was.  THen as i got older and got into the 70's my hair was long and i was wild and care free.  One day me and my friends talked about religion and thought maybe we should go to church. We just picked a church and went that sunday.  When the preacher would see us long hairs sitting in the audience, they would always start the serum off with something about drugs.  Now these people didnt know us at all, but they would label us.  So we went to a different church, and another one and a another one.  Every one of the churches we went to, the sermon was always about drugs.  They labeled us because of the way we looked.  To me that is crap.   We just went to church to find out about religion not about drugs.  So i think if they was so blind that they couldnt see real people under that hair, so no they are not really regilous.  So this and reading how the god let hitler killed so many million of his people, and if he is a caring god then how come children suffer so much.  How can a caring god let things happen in this world like he does..    NO i do not  believe in a god or a greater being.  In my mind religion started when in the roman coliseum you was looking to get eat by a  lion, yes that is where god came from.   Ok enough of my rambling.

The moment I can recall is one in particular around age 9 when my father (whom I'd met for the first time a few years prior) gave me one of the usual beatings for idr but something like I didn't finish my plate or do the dishes. But basically I was in the corner of my living room/bedroom crying just remembering growing up with my mother and going to church praying that I'd meet my father one day. Ha i literally did that every Sunday until I met the man, that day for some reason I thought of that and couldn't understand for the life of me why God would answers my prayers with this animal haha. That was the first time I knew.

When I lost it and started to hurt people on purpose and nobody stopped me.

About the same time I realised Santa didn't exist.

I didn't really. I'm not a strong atheist, I don't hold the affirmative position that God does not exist. I'm a weak atheist and I believe that all God claims yet presented have failed to meet their burden of proof. Until such time that a claim is sufficiently supported, I can't believe in a god.

That said, there are certain God concepts that I find facially impossible. The tri-omni God of Easter-Christmas Christianity springs to mind.

I grew up in a Mormon family in Utah... yeah the worst possible place for a transgender kid. I started frustrating my Sunday school teachers with questions that had no answers. Still, I became indoctrinated and eventually became a cult member of a church that isn't necessarily cultist... although I believe it is becoming more so every year. I even went on a mission for the church and served the worst two years of my life in Chile nearly handcuffed to another man 24 hours a day. That's how the missionaries are kept in line. They never leave each other's sight (except to bathe and attend to bodily functions) and if one does, the other reports it.

When I was outed, I was eventually excommunicated publicly. It was the most humiliating experience of my life. The management where I worked at HP in Salt Lake City were part of my church leadership so it affected my job. You will note that HP no longer has an engineering branch in SLC anymore. I believe it was my case that got them shut down. There were already two other discrimination cases in progress. Mine was the tipping point... pretty sure.

I could fully pass by that time. I had been going to work as myself. They were coping as only right wing bigots can. They hired a church shrink who told the plant manager that he should "reroute all my incoming calls, put me in an office with nothing to do. He'll commit suicide or quit within six months." I know this because the corporate lawyer who flew in from CO told me after I signed all the release forms. He was terribly embarrassed by the whole ordeal and gave me the truth straight up. I was shocked. I received three months severance with six weeks vacation pay (I was always a workaholic), promised never to apply with HP again for my lifetime for a job, and I moved to California.

I tried going to the Mormon church a few times down in the LA area as me but it hurt me so when I came home to my shoddy one bedroom flat. I felt lonely and guilty. They kept reaching out to me to receive the missionary lessons and I wanted nothing of that. I could repeat them word for word in Spanish!

Slowly, over the next two to three years, the questions I had as a child came back. I realized that I had literally been tortured, abused, and humiliated all in the name of God. I graduated from partly believing at that point to not believing by the time I moved to the Bay Area in 87. Now I have a total lack of faith.

FWIW I have been an electrical engineer and a professional astronomer (rather loosely on the latter.) I have been trained in the scientific method of reason and I've come to the conclusion that the existence of a deity is unrealistic. If god gave us brains to think then we should learn to reason. Reason leads to rational thought and already we have left the realm of belief.

I like to tell people that I'm a druid. It started as an excuse to get unpaid days off work every month to pursue astronomy on moonless nights. I soon became known fondly as the "druish princess." That was okay. When people ask me what I am I tell them I'm a druid. When they ask what it means, I tell them with a wink: "Witchcraft."

Cindi

I never actually truly believed in a god. I saw it as a ruse. A cruel joke played on the naive. Just a way for human to control human in such a horrid way. Through almost every religion, I always see the same faces of power and greed, Hate and ignorance.

Not to say there is not a god and every religion is bad. But those who follow blindly with no concept of the actual world sadden me with there hatred pass down through time. Just to try and control the idealism of humanity.  I would say i am a god hating agnostic. For if he/she be i hate him/her without guilt. If he does not then i have hate towards those that created such cruel and barbaric philosophy that drive people to kill and ostracize others.

I can't even remember a time where I did believe in a god. I went to a Catholic school, and whenever praying went on I always just felt like I was faking, playing a part, talking to walls. I couldn't understand why I couldn't seem to feel anything when everybody else seemed convinced of some sort of presence. I continued to pray for some time to see if I could get some sort of sign, something to convince me and help me believe. Obviously I never did. If I cannot see, hear, smell, touch, feel, or percieve something in SOME way, shape or form I am forced to conclude that this aforementioned thing doesn't exist. So here I am.

 Wow it's amazing how many people grew up in Theist homes! I grew up in an Atheist home, my parents always maintained that my siblings and I could believe anything we wanted but that they didn't believe much of anything.

So I never really believed in god? I gave god a go. I prayed the same way I wished on birthday cakes and it had the same effect.

As I grew up I never really saw any reason to think otherwise. I met lots of people who believed all manner of just as unlikely things. The sky is the skull of an ice giant. You were someone else in a previous life. Everything was made by a magic man in the clouds.

And on top of that there was the Trans stuff :D So yeah for as long as I remember the idea of a god or gods seemed very unlikely.

Never believed in one. My parents have some vague spiritual ideas but never forced them upon me, so I was lucky enough not to be indoctrinated with cultural Christianity and could decide without an ingrained bias. As it is quite clear to me that there is no reason to believe any supernatural being exists, it's logical that I'm an atheist, and have been from my birth. Later, as I've learned, as I've observed the role of church in defending existing social order, how religious belief seems to "strangely" correlate to national borders, how churches try to cover up the failures of the religions they are built upon, it all became even clearer.

I stopped believing when I was very young. The concept of this invisible "god" just never sat right with me. Ever. Short and sweet answer. Glad there are other atheists here!

I've been brought up as Christian, and whilst I respect the values that religion instills in people, the scientific way my brain works does not allow me to believe in such beings as a God. However, this also means that if some concrete evidence was provided (the Bible not being one of them, if it was written today it could be considered fiction, with no referencing or evidence of observed events), then I would be happy to believe and accept.

If you want a solid reason to not believe in a God, explain what 'Greater Being' would have created the Ophiocordyceps unilateralis fungus, have a read about this curious organism here... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis)

It's a strange world, and in reality we know very very little about it. So unfortunately no one can ever say for sure.
Still, it's nice to wonder :)

P x

I was bought up in Catholic Church and at about 13-14 I realised the majority of people I knew were hypocrites including half the priests...this set me to wondering what it was all about and I found that I didn't like the catholic church or what it stood for. It was just another set of fabricated yarns to keep the natives happy at night. I have nothing but contempt for organised religion, I don't believe "god" per say as we view him exists and I suspect the early peoples of the earth mistook visitors form other planets/solar systems as the gods. By about 16 this all made much more sense, besides what god allows a paedophile to molest a young boy for a year while his wife looks on and says nothing...good Catholics they were too. I guess I am a touch more bitter about this than I remember.

Quote from: Paige_tara on November 21, 2015, 12:44:27 PMI've been brought up as Christian, and whilst I respect the values that religion instills in people

What would those be? Because the only value I can think of that religion (in general) teaches is uncritical subservience to higher authority. Sure, some of the religions preach love and tolerance and all that, but then some also preach homophobia, sometimes even at the same time. I cannot think of a single positive value that only religion is able to teach, or a single religion that only has positive teachings. I mean, I'm used to religious apologists pretending that religion is the sole source of morality (as if an irreligious or pre-religious society would descend into a total mayhem of murder and looting), but it is interesting to hear an atheist essentially repeating this argument.

Quote from: Paige_tara on November 21, 2015, 12:44:27 PMIf you want a solid reason to not believe in a God, explain what 'Greater Being' would have created the Ophiocordyceps unilateralis fungus

See, the thing is, religion can be used to explain pretty much anything. Even though the traditional creation myth has been disproved, creationists can choose from an infinite number of other explanations, since it is impossible to make a disprovable claim in the realm of the supernatural. The simplest explanation is the deistic/Old Earth Creationist argument of "God created stuff and let it evolve", but you could just as well say stuff like "God micromanages every step of our lives and is just trying his hardest to pretend there is no god and everything is the result of a natural process", or whatever else you can think of. As to the motives, "we cannot understand god's will" is always a perfect, unbreakable copout for anything.

Do not try to disprove God. It is impossible to do so. Instead, wait for the religious to prove something. It's funny... Christianity has existed for two thousand years, with a rich religious tradition and more than 2 billion adherents, yet not a single shred more evidence to it than the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

I need to get one of those FSM placards for my car...

;)

Quote from: Black Arrow on November 23, 2015, 05:32:05 AM
What would those be? Because the only value I can think of that religion (in general) teaches is uncritical subservience to higher authority. Sure, some of the religions preach love and tolerance and all that, but then some also preach homophobia, sometimes even at the same time.

It's more the original principle of religion, to promote a society of people that care for one another and all of 'Gods creatures'. Such as the 10 commandments, it would be a much better world if people lived by those.
But yes, there is a lot of hate derived from religion (such as the current wars, and most (all?) of the wars in history), which is where it falls down and why I don't believe in a God or follow a religion. I've never understood how individuals can have so much hatred for another, especially when that hatred is based purely on the fact that they have a different religion, to me, that goes against everything religion was 'invented' for.

With regards to the homophobia and general sexism that persists throughout religion, you've got to remember how attitudes have changed since these religions were formed. It wasn't all that long ago people thought homosexuality was something you could/should be cured of... they're just stuck in the past.

Quote from: Paige_tara on November 23, 2015, 05:48:15 PM
It's more the original principle of religion, to promote a society of people that care for one another and all of 'Gods creatures'. Such as the 10 commandments, it would be a much better world if people lived by those.

I, for one, strongly object to commandments 1 to 4, and while 5, 7 and 10 are nice to abide by if you can** I'd rather not see them made into law. The rest are covered by all societies, religious or not, so religion once again fails as a moral guide.

What you call the "original principle of religion" is very vague and I would disagree that such an underlying principle exists. There is no single underlying goal for the foundation of religion. Judaism was essentially created as a set of laws for the Israelite tribes, to reinforce authority*, and unlike its Abrahamic successors it is much less universalist and less developed theologically in the sense that it even mentions other gods in its holy texts; Christianity and Islam developed in opposition to established authority (given the progressive changes Islam brought with its birth, Muhammad would roll in his grave if he saw the ISIS today!).

The reality is that it is never the "original principle" that matters, but the actual social conditions to which the religions are applied. Islam initially had a progressive role, with Muslim societies being some of the most advanced on Earth; nowadays, the trend is reversed, with Islam being the ideological justification for the worst reactionaries of the world (ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, the Taliban), although in Arab societies with a more secular, progressive outlook (relative to the rest of the Muslim world) Islam was/is used in a more progressive manner as well, though still only as an ideological framework for the state (see: Nasser, Gaddafi, and of those who still reign, Assad - in general, the Arab nationalist and Ba'athist dictators). Christianity, Buddhism, everything - they have a similarly flexible history in politics. The very compilation of their holy texts is usually a political process, not an abstract theological debate in a vacuum.

And if you want those "original principles" you speak about? Well, again, we don't need religion for that.

*Of course, the origins of Judaism are a little vague, since there is no evidence that the Exodus actually happened and thus it's a bit hard to say how the history of Judaism actually began.
**There are always exceptions: do not honor abusive parents, for example.

Getting way too deep for me. I was just explaining my viewpoint on religion, it's not a subject I have any depth of knowledge about to have a deep discussion, but it's been interesting :)

P x

Quote from: Paige_tara on November 24, 2015, 11:28:56 AM
Getting way too deep for me. I was just explaining my viewpoint on religion, it's not a subject I have any depth of knowledge about to have a deep discussion, but it's been interesting :)

P x

No worries! :)

I was raised in a very fundamental conservative Christian family, and I stopped believing when I was about thirteen, had my doubts at twelve, knowing that I was not acceptable, read the bible at thirteen, and was a militant atheist throughout my teens.

I'm a fan of anarchy. It's my view that the anarchist has the most faith in humanity. Most objections to anarchy are about the lack of government prevention, or protection, and how the world will descend into MAD MAX. Religious dispositions, in my view, take the antithetical position, and have the least faith in humanity. Believing that the universe needs a benevolent ruler, to keep us evil, sinful creatures in check. We need proscribed commandments to live by, and the threat of punishment, and promise of reward. The average person is wicked, and needs to believe that they're always being watched and judged in order to be kept in check. It is my view, that religion's true core values are nihilism, and misanthropy. 

I never believed in god, never ever.  Not for a single second in my life.  My parents sent me to mainstream protestant Sunday school when I was a child, but it made no difference.  Religions are a pack of lies, and mostly harmful and demeaning lies at that.

I see no evidence to support the theory that religious believers are better or more moral than non-religious people.  To the contrary, my impression is somewhat the opposite - that non-religious people are kinder, more reasonable, and more tolerant.

I'm more of an agnostic atheist, so I'm always open to evidence of a god, but I just never saw it.  I was brought up in a very religious household and would often pray to god for assistence in trying to be a good Christian.  Quite frankly I felt very let down that god didn't help me sort out my issues with my gender identity and sexuality, so originally I was more disappointed that prayer didn't  work no matter how hard I tried.  Then I started to take issue with a lot of religious stances, especially with the catholic church, abd started to feel conflicted with my desire to be a good christian and the fact that I disagreed with a lot I was taught.  I kind of seesawed on the topic as it was a huge aspect of my childhood and beliefs, but I became more skeptical and ultimately rejected the idea of a god.  I'm open to evidence, but I find it unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove anything conclusive.

The real evil in the world sits at the head of the Catholic church and considers himself infallible when it comes to religious instructions...self proclaimed hotline to the big G herself. There are supposed to files currently held in the Vatican vaults that prove that the catholic religion is based on lies and "God" as a concept is totally flawed...The catholic church is nothing but another business selling its wares however it has way more protection than you average retailer.

Quote from: FTMKyle on October 14, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
OMG! Other atheists exist? I don't really call myself an atheist because its not a term I really think about too often, but I don't believe in god. I was actually wondering a couple of days ago if I was the only one in the world who didn't believe in god because I've never met anyone else. Well, I could count my dad, but even he will say he's not sure.

So, how many of you really don't believe in god, and how did you come to this conclusion. Please talk to me. This is like discovering that I am not the only human in a world among elves. Or maybe it's the other way around.   

When I got out of college I became interested in 3 things: the history of science, logic and philosophy. I started reading different books on philosophy and that's when things started gelling with me. It was then that I began to see that modern day religions are in fact based on either a combination of even older beliefs or an actual older belief. Of course the adherents of a modern religion will always claim that their religion is in fact the only true religion, otherwise they are just praying to statues for nothing.

In between all of that, I tried, I can say I honestly tried religion, even as a 'cure' for me. The more I met deeply religious people the more I realized I was staring at blank caricatures of people. Nice people, kind people, the kind of people you want to share a place at the table with, but overly simplistic views of the world.

The concept of a god or pantheon of deities is so easy to create and simply pen something down. The world was formed by a giant snake and the 2 front fangs broke off and formed the first god and goddess, see new religion. You can't prove it's not true any more than you can prove it is true. That is essentially what I learned from philosophy.

Ask yourself, how can it be that there are hundreds if not thousands of different religions and they ALL claim to be the only true one? If you want to see new made up stuff though, look at all of the new age gobbledygook. Liberals who are afraid to step away too far from organized religion buy into crystals, and chakra and all kinds east-west religious beliefs married together. Maybe that is the genesis of a new belief system that will overtake the major religions of today, 1,000 years from now? Who knows. The only thing I will say is it's all as nonsensical as the rest of the religion. To me it's all sophistry.

Quote from: FTMKyle on October 14, 2014, 09:19:07 PMAt what point did you realize that god is not real

I don't know if god exists or not.

I think more it is that there was a point at which I realized whether a god exists or not, it doesn't matter to my life. That's a question that, unless I have some holy moment tripping balls with god itself, I am never going to be any the wiser of the answer and it hardly matters to my daily existence. Maybe I'm just too dumb to see the "signs" or feel their effects. So be it. I'm on my own and just have to make my own way in the world. I don't have time to wait for god to show itself in a way I can understand, I have way too much to do just trying to get by each and every day. If it happens, great, wonderful. If it doesn't, great, wonderful.

That's the point I realized I didn't need a god, and that was... maybe around age 9-10. Before that I hadn't believed in a god either.

Quote from: FTMKyle on October 14, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
OMG! Other atheists exist? I don't really call myself an atheist because its not a term I really think about too often, but I don't believe in god. I was actually wondering a couple of days ago if I was the only one in the world who didn't believe in god because I've never met anyone else. Well, I could count my dad, but even he will say he's not sure.

So, how many of you really don't believe in god, and how did you come to this conclusion. Please talk to me. This is like discovering that I am not the only human in a world among elves. Or maybe it's the other way around.   

I'll give you what, for all intents and purposes, would be my de-conversion story. Truth be told, I'm not really sure that I ever truly believed in a higher power of any sort. Regardless, I called myself a Christian for the first 20 years of my life. I had gotten into Buddhism just before my 21st birthday and had continued to refer to myself as such for about 4 years afterwards. It was just before my 25th birthday that I started calling myself an Atheist. Truth be told, my exit from Christianity and from Buddhism stemmed from the simple fact that I couldn't take much of anything they taught seriously. I suppose it was in this period transitioning between Christianity to Buddhism to finally abandoning religion altogether that I came to the conclusion that the idea of things like gods, the afterlife, heaven, hell, karma, etc. were quite absurd as they were taught to me. I've attempted to delve as deep into the topic as my time has allowed, even going as far as to try and make it through the Bible in it's entirety (and only getting as far as the end of Exodus), and I guess I still haven't covered everything. Then again, what little of the Bible I have read convinced me of something said by Penn Jillette; nothing will make you an Atheist quite like reading the Bible.

Sorry for the dissertation, but I guess I have a bad habit of being somewhat long winded in forums. I also apologize if this doesn't answer your question but I hope it gives you a general idea.

When i was seven years old i remember telling my mother i didn't want to go to church anymore
I never actually believed any of the stories i found them simply "Stories" and i was shocked to find out the adults around me "Believed" the stories i was being told. That's when i started questioning things and asking "Why this why that" and i always got "God" or "Because" but it was never a detailed response and i started notching that the older i got. From a very young age iv'e always enjoyed science so i guess my love for science saved me young although when i was 12 was when i'd say i didn't believe started to be set in stone.
Before that i'd question, or wonder even though i doubted. Somtimes i still question and i still wonder but i think that's normal i'd consider myself agnostic atheist to be exact though. So when was the big clue the stories was fake? For me it was probably when i was younger and it was a story about a dog a preacher told and apparently the dog escaped because of god, i thought seriously people? Noah's ark was the second was probably the one that took me off religion for good. :)

And yes there are many many atheist and from what i understand recently athiesm has been growing in size
So you're not alone!

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 15, 2014, 09:19:41 AM
Well, that's the problem with atheism, isn't it? Makes it much harder to answer where any of it came from. Not sure which is harder to swallow. That the universe was created by some intelligent being of indeterminate origin, or that it just "came about".

I ain't sayin' it's Aliens......But it's Aliens!

Quote from: Alice Rogers on March 02, 2016, 01:10:02 AM
I ain't sayin' it's Aliens......But it's Aliens!

Please!, such irreverence about our irreverence ;D ;D  Are there no sacred cows left?  ;D

Quote from: Tessa James on March 02, 2016, 12:08:17 PM
Please!, such irreverence about our irreverence ;D ;D  Are there no sacred cows left?  ;D

I think they've been eaten. ;)

When you say "god" in what sense are you referring to? Are you aligning that with a specific religion? Have you aver considered an anti-religion, instead of just flat out saying that there is absolutely nothing? Are you darwinian and big bang supporter?

There's a lot of things to consider before calling yourself atheist. I'm not trying to come a some kind of holier-than-thou waste of space. I personally hate those people. What I'm getting at is you could have some people in your life that could be referred to as atheist, but don't subscribe to the title, or have never just given it any real serious thought. And some who just don't define as anything at all. Look around thru your family, friends, coworkers, everyone you know. You might just find out that you are not as alone as you think. ;)

I always have my doubts about that
I start first as agnostic in 2013 but now I'm atheist

It's hard to put a date on it.  I was well into my teens when I came to the conclusion religion was in fact absolute nonsense.  Coming to the same conclusion about "God" would have been a few years later.  What really gets me is how it's possible, in this day & age, for someone to believe that nonsense, when it's so clearly detached from reality.

QuoteIn my eyes it's better to treat religion as a very powerful and very real force, even if it is not divine

Yep, it's a "force" that has all too often been used to justify bigotry and violence.  I find it amusing how in conflict each side claims "God" is on their side. 

QuoteWhen I think of the chances of those three entities simultaneously coming about randomly in the same place, some form intelligent intervention starts seeming plausible in comparison.

Then you have to explain where that intervention came from.  Given all the billions of billions of stars, in billions and billions of galaxy in at least one universe, I suspect billions of years is more than enough time for this sort of thing to happen by random chance.  Also, at least some prerequisites for life, such as amino acids and primitive proteins have been created in labs, through chemistry.

As long as one claims there's a god or intelligent designer, then it's incumbent on that person to explain where that god or designer came from.  If they can't, then their claims are just a house of cards.

QuoteWell, that's the problem with atheism, isn't it? Makes it much harder to answer where any of it came from. Not sure which is harder to swallow. That the universe was created by some intelligent being of indeterminate origin, or that it just "came about".

Given the immense size of the universe, with innumerable stars, over billions of years, I'd say "came about" is much more likely than a creator.

Quote from: stephaniec on June 23, 2015, 04:48:47 PM
I'm here, but I'm a Jesus freak

Well then, perhaps you can explain why all the pictures of Christ I've seen show him as fair skinned, with blue eyes.  People from that his part of the world tend to have darker skin and brown eyes.

Quote from: AnneK on June 16, 2017, 03:08:49 PM
As long as one claims there's a god or intelligent designer, then it's incumbent on that person to explain where that god or designer came from.  If they can't, then their claims are just a house of cards.

It often seems like it is not a popular position to hold in our community, but I believe in God.  It is more of a question of me believing for me than convincing you to believe.  I would not be able to convince you of anything your heart is not open to.  And that's ok.  As for people that do believe, even if it does not match exactly to what I believe?   If someone can find comfort and solace in their faith, I won't be the one to deny them. 

QuoteIt is more of a question of me believing for me than convincing you to believe.

Well, why do you believe something that can be shown to be nonsense?  Why do people believe something that is clearly false?  Another example of this is homeopathy.  It's claims are based on principles that are physically impossible, yet for some reason some people believe in it.

Quote from: AnneK on June 16, 2017, 04:08:24 PM
Well, why do you believe something that can be shown to be nonsense?  Why do people believe something that is clearly false?  Another example of this is homeopathy.  It's claims are based on principles that are physically impossible, yet for some reason some people believe in it.

You haven't shown me that anything is false.  Only that it indicates to you that it is false.  You sound like you are good with that and I have nothing to gain by talking you out of living your life as you are moved to do.  Have  a great night! 

For me, my lack of belief in god is simple, I was never told he was real - at least not by any one important to me. Sure, I knew religious people, I've just never shared their beliefs. And I did go looking, I've known Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Muslims and others, but none caused me to believe. It's much easier to be an atheist when you were not raised to be a theist.

My aunt is a minister and once said to me, "God has long since ceased taking an interest in Earthly matters and his appointed representatives don't seem able to work things out." To this day, I'm still not sure if she was joking or not.

Quote
You haven't shown me that anything is false.

Well, the whole story of creation is nonsense.  History and archaeology show that the exodus never happened.  King David was actually a fairly minor figure and most of the cities he supposedly destroyed were in fact destroyed outside of his life time, the ark myth was borrowed from the Babylonians, etc.

Now how about some proof that backs up religion.

I quit believing once I realized that Jesus was a false prophet.  He said that all prayers would be answered but in reality none of the important ones ever are.  The standard Christian apologetic for this is insulting to any human being still breathing.  "No answer is an answer in itself!"  Yeah, right.

The second reason was the internet.  Reading Christian comments it quickly becomes evident that Christians are some of the most ill tempered and insulting life forms in this solar system.  That kind of shoots down the notion that they are inhabited by the spirit of a God who is defined as Love.

I could go on and on but those are the big ones. 

It was really hard letting go though.  It was like reprogramming myself after leaving a cult.  Or maybe that's exactly what it was.  The whole process from start to finish took me nearly nine years.

God is dead!  Deal with it!!!


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

i had been questioning various aspects of the religion i grew up with since i was very young; i always loved science and the two weren't usually compatible.  but it wasn't until my late teens that i really started drifting away from belief altogether.  i didn't have any one pivotal moment of realization.  it was just a gradual process that went from "i believe, but i disagree with my church/family's teachings" to "i can't really know for sure" to "i don't believe and see no reason to". 

I was 14 when i realized that God DOES exist!

Quote from: Jin on June 26, 2017, 10:38:51 AM
I was 14 when i realized that God DOES exist!

Based on what?

Quote from: AnneK on June 16, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Well then, perhaps you can explain why all the pictures of Christ I've seen show him as fair skinned, with blue eyes.  People from that his part of the world tend to have darker skin and brown eyes.

Well, they surely don't make Jews like Jesus anymore!  ;D

Seriously, even the pronunciation of His name changed from one language to another. The Latin is spelled the same as English, but pronounced more like "Hay Sus" The common everyday language in Jesus' time was Aramaic. His name was pronounced like " Eh Shu A "

I remember sitting in church with my mom when I was 3. I thought to myself, "Do they really believe this stuff. It doesn't make any sense."  Even at that age, I was used to questioning everything and so questioning religion and god came naturally to me. Over 35 years later and I still haven't seen any evidence that has led me to reject my null hypothesis that there is no God.

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I wasn't raised religious in any way, so it's never been a thing for me at all. I've done a LOT of reading on many different religions humanity has known, and while I find it an interesting topic, I just cannot believe in any of it whatsoever. That said, though, I won't be the one to deny or argue anyone's beliefs, as I believe it to be an often very personal choice and thing, and if someone finds love, strength and hope in it, why would I tell them it's false? Respect is what matters to me most (but it has to come from both sides).

That said, hiding behind any religion to be hateful = absolutely not okay. That's not what religion is about and thankfully, none of my religious friends agree with that kind of hate.

Here's another example that shows the bible is fiction:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/genetic-evidence-suggests-the-canaanites-werent-destroyed-after-all/ (https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/genetic-evidence-suggests-the-canaanites-werent-destroyed-after-all/)

My belief was cemented when 19 Republican candidates claiming a talk to God revealed he wanted them to run for President. But really, a higher power exists. Mine is my son who saved my life so many years ago. So I am a deist. God is good even as a spirit and Church is like a Chinese menu, where you get to pick and choose what you believe or not. God is not a Racist. God is not an egomaniac. God has no other agenda, God loves his neighbors. Everyone with dark skin is not sinister. Jesus never walked across America. Time to stop the talk and start walking the walk

Hi All,

I was raised in a progressive Christian church.  I always had my doubts.  A lot of stories from the Bible bugged me.  There's a definite nastiness to the book.  There's the God egging Abraham on to kill his son, there's the Noah genocide, there's the fact god is good with slavery, stoning, war, women as property, slaughter of first borns, etc, etc. There's hundreds of really nasty bits.  Perhaps what really bugged me the most was the fact that this all powerful being needed worship.  What type of insecure entity needs worship?

So that basically proved to me Christianity wasn't the answer.  I did like some of the things Jesus was purported to have said but that's no reason to believe.

So once you walk away from your own religion.  You really need some sort of proof to believe in another.  Faith is just the snake oil of religion.  So far the only thing people will say is how did this complicated universe come to be without intelligent intervention and therefore there must be a god.  I'm sorry but that isn't what follows from that observation.  What follows is we have no clue what happened.  Anything else is a guess that's as likely as a unicorn found it at the end of a rainbow.

Anyway that's just how I see it.
Paige :)

I never learned to believe.

My grandparents took me to church Sunday School (to give my mom a break, she was very ill when I was little), and later went to Sunday School on my own when my mom moved elsewhere, until I was about 10. I was really into setting up the Christmas creche decorations in my grandparents' house. However, all along, I thought it was storytime, like library read-aloud stuff my mom took me to, with arts and crafts. I was really into fantasy, including The Hobbit and Wonder Woman and such (it was the 70s, and there were lots of kids level fantasy stuff in books and on TV), and I didn't know people actually thought the Bible stories were REAL. I figured it was a social play-along game, like Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny. It made as much sense.

I was about 10 when the church I was going to at the time decided I was old enough to attend services instead of Sunday School classes. It was a rude awakening when I realized the *adults* around me thought it was all real. I laughed at first, I thought it was a joke. Then I was horrified. Then I thought it was a tiny minority of freaks, like the Flat Earthers. I quit going to church right then and there, though I missed the social parts of it.

It wasn't until I was about 16 that I first heard the word "atheist" and I was still pretty meh about it. I still thought non-believers were the majority, it made no sense to me that reasonable, rational minded people would *believe* such crap. It wasn't until I was about 22 that I actually became aware that the *majority* of Americans were believers.

I wouldn't say there was a point where I realized he wasn't real....but I'm still trying to find what I truly believe. I was raised and baptized Southerner baptist, and I've been on the agnostic fence for quite some time.
Over the years, being out of church and my grandparent's influence, and being exposed to more science and truth on the internet and such I do find it really hard to believe that there is a god, and if there is, it's definitely not the kind of god that Christian's praise, preach and worship....if you feel me?
I was already heavily agnostic and then my young, pregnant aunt was taken from us unexpectedly so whatever kind of faith I might have had left in the Christian god is pretty much gone / turned to extreme hatred...the funeral was heavily dominated as baptist because of my grandparents, my grandmother even having the nerve to throw an ALTER CALL in there...like what...why...Nana...no...stop. (Probably because even though none of us grandchildren have told her we're atheists, agnostic, not living the Christian life style she knows we're all filthy heathens with our tattoos and piercings and gay lovers...etc.)

So yeah....Not really an atheist I suppose, but I definitely feel you guys!

Quote from: Paige on August 02, 2017, 04:09:32 PM
A lot of stories from the Bible bugged me.  There's a definite nastiness to the book.  There's the God egging Abraham on to kill his son, there's the Noah genocide, there's the fact god is good with slavery, stoning, war, women as property, slaughter of first borns, etc, etc. There's hundreds of really nasty bits.

One of the parts I disliked was in Exodus.  God sends Moses and Aaron to demand that Pharaoh free the Israelites from slavery in Egypt.  Okay!  That's great!

But then, each time Moses and Aaron talk to Pharaoh, the Bible says that God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" to make sure that he wouldn't agree.  So each time the negotiations fail, and God gets to unleash a new plague against the people of Egypt.

So why would God intervene to PREVENT Pharaoh from doing the right thing?  Just so he could show off by inflicting harm?  Even if I wanted to believe (which I don't!), I could never worship a God like that!

Quote from: itsApril on August 02, 2017, 09:44:00 PM
Even if I wanted to believe (which I don't!), I could never worship a God like that!

Exactly.

QuoteOne of the parts I disliked was in Exodus.

Add to that the fact, according to history and archaeology, that the exodus never happened.  Another example of fiction in the bible.

Quote from: AnneK on August 03, 2017, 11:25:16 AM
Add to that the fact, according to history and archaeology, that the exodus never happened.  Another example of fiction in the bible.

In 1879, American atheist Robert Ingersoll toured a number of cities delivering a series of public lectures called "Some Mistakes of Moses."  He reviewed the story of Exodus and then walked through it systematically, step by step, and demonstrated how ludicrous, impossible, absurd, and embarrassing it all was.  The lecture was later published in print.  I was lucky enough to find and read a copy recently.  Even after 138 years, it's a classic!

Jesus said,  "21 May they all be one, just as, Father, you are in me and I am in you, so that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. " (John 17:21)

Christianity has been fragmenting since before the Bible was written.  Referencing the words of Jesus himself we can see that Christianity in its entirety is what we would expect from a man made institution and contrary to what we would expect from something headed by an omnipotent and omniscient being.  Christianity = Fail.  The same can be said of its cousins, Judaism and Islam.


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I don't realise, I just don't believe.
As I do not know for certain as there simply isn't the evidence, I go by the probablility of it.
It's very low.

Quote from: itsApril on August 03, 2017, 02:01:16 PM
In 1879, American atheist Robert Ingersoll toured a number of cities delivering a series of public lectures called "Some Mistakes of Moses."  He reviewed the story of Exodus and then walked through it systematically, step by step, and demonstrated how ludicrous, impossible, absurd, and embarrassing it all was.  The lecture was later published in print.  I was lucky enough to find and read a copy recently.  Even after 138 years, it's a classic!

It's available online.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/38099 (https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/38099)

I still believe there is something beyond this incarnation of reality. I can easily believe in a simulation universe or even a multiverse but the concept of God as a old white dude in a throne in the sky is long gone.
Likely we are accountable to someone/something? Even if it's just as the gnostics believe that we exist as an entity beyond this realm.
Think about this. If you put a VR goggles on a child and they grew up with them on, removal of said goggles would mess them up. Perhaps our bodies are just avatars for this existence. Heck even logging into rpg games as an adult could becone fully emmersible if we figured out how to put memory on hold while we play.
Cool stuff.

--Sasha

I realized it when I gained insight that we are all connected physically by our souls energy.  In turn creating the powerful force some mistaken for god.  WE are god if there is a god. 
Think about the power of prayer, a thought magnified by many can have a dramatic effect.
Think about a newbie that is scared and is surrounded by love from caring members at Susan's and finds the strength to persevere.  We know it works and this is why I think it does.

Hugs, Jessica