Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello everyone,

On another website I used to frequent and only just checked a few minutes ago, it is possible to make your own "stamps" and you can display these "stamps" on your profile. A few months ago, I made a Non-Binary stamp with the Genderqueer Flag - I figured since genderqueer is gender-non-conforming that it would be suitable to use for a Non-Binary flag. I am well aware that there already is a Non-Binary flag but it is not widely recognized as the Genderqueer flag so there was that as well.

A user privately messaged me to tell me that my stamp had the "wrong" flag, that not all genderqueer individuals identify as non-binary and that not all non-binary identify as genderqueer.

While I understood the person's point, I was insulted at first that they felt the need to educate me on the matter. I felt if I responded to them that I believed using the genderqueer flag for non-binary folks isn't wrong, that in the end, it's just semantics... I felt that the person would become angry and begin to argue their point if I did not agree with it. The website previously brought me stress (hence the "used to frequent"), I did not want to deal with drama and unnecessary arguing, so I did not end up responding to their PM.

What do you think?

Is it wrong to use a genderqueer flag for non-binary folks?

Is genderqueer and non-binary basically interchangeably terms or are they more distinct than the other? I previously thought they were the similar terms in that they both do not conform to the binary, unless I am wrong?

I googled both flags, there were hundreds on both pages that looked the same..? It looks like the difference is green vs light blue(trans color).?
I think its a silly thing for those people on the other forum to complain about..

I like the trans flag colors, blue/white/pink.. Its purdy.! ;)

Nonbinary to me is an umbrella term, genderqueer is a specific presentation or identity.  Not the same.  I define gq as blending visible binaries, sometimes jarringly, for me.  Not to say for others, but for a specific one of my  presentations.

Nb is inclusive of all my presentation and gender identities.  Gq sore specific, for me.  May mean something else for.others.

Blessings

Satinjoy

Echelon. I think you should fly whatever flag you want to fly and be danged, could have used a worse word. But OMG. You know you. I'm not really into flags other than our country's flag of origin and no matter what or where, blood was shed over that flag. :'( So the Irish flag under the American flag. Since my family is mainly form Ireland.) But as for rainbows and so on, I want a solid pink flag with a big "F" or "MTF" on it. Guys could have a blue flag with a big "M" or "FTM". Yeah it may be a freakin' stereotype but oh well it is how I feel. Binary, nonbinary transgender MTF or FTM.

We are who we are. MTF non binary, MTF non binary or just human. Maybe we need a human flag. If anything just to cover the whole of humanity with all diversities. BTW, if it weren't for diversity, the human race would have never survived and we, trans, I believe are the new diversity. Maybe even new on the evolutionary ladder. I eman really MTF and FTM are just as compatible as cis gender. Evolution is a funny thing and we in no way can control it no more than we can control the weather.

OK Crazy Jess42 will shut up now. :embarrassed:

Quote from: Jess42 on October 23, 2014, 01:04:10 PM
Echelon. I think you should fly whatever flag you want to fly and be danged, could have used a worse word. But OMG. You know you. I'm not really into flags other than our country's flag of origin and no matter what or where, blood was shed over that flag. :'( So the Irish flag under the American flag. Since my family is mainly form Ireland.) But as for rainbows and so on, I want a solid pink flag with a big "F" or "MTF" on it. Guys could have a blue flag with a big "M" or "FTM". Yeah it may be a freakin' stereotype but oh well it is how I feel. Binary, nonbinary transgender MTF or FTM.

We are who we are. MTF non binary, MTF non binary or just human. Maybe we need a human flag. If anything just to cover the whole of humanity with all diversities. BTW, if it weren't for diversity, the human race would have never survived and we, trans, I believe are the new diversity. Maybe even new on the evolutionary ladder. I eman really MTF and FTM are just as compatible as cis gender. Evolution is a funny thing and we in no way can control it no more than we can control the weather.

OK Crazy Jess42 will shut up now. :embarrassed:

This is why I believe in all the colors of the rainbow. We all live in the same sky.

I think people get too carried away with their own thoughts and imposing it on others.


Me, I think this would be a cool non-binary flag.  And excuse my humour, this is not to offend any non-binaries.


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi686.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv228%2Fjaime_r_d%2Fnon-binary.jpg&hash=79343604f1c0a2be4e998ef32765c2db85be6cff)

Quote from: Jaime R D on October 23, 2014, 01:39:55 PM
I think people get too carried away with their own thoughts and imposing it on others.


Me, I think this would be a cool non-binary flag.  And excuse my humour, this is not to offend any non-binaries.


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi686.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv228%2Fjaime_r_d%2Fnon-binary.jpg&hash=79343604f1c0a2be4e998ef32765c2db85be6cff)

So what are you trying to say Jaime?

BTW I love it. Non binary in the purist form. I vote for this on a non binary flag.

Quote from: Jaime R D on October 23, 2014, 01:39:55 PM
I think people get too carried away with their own thoughts and imposing it on others.


Me, I think this would be a cool non-binary flag.  And excuse my humour, this is not to offend any non-binaries.


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi686.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv228%2Fjaime_r_d%2Fnon-binary.jpg&hash=79343604f1c0a2be4e998ef32765c2db85be6cff)

I'm offended...!! There's not enough 1's for my taste..!! :D
Hahaha....... :)

Quote from: Mark3 on October 23, 2014, 02:04:56 PM
I'm offended...!! There's not enough 1's for my taste..!! :D
Hahaha....... :)

OMG how many 1's do you want. Would more make you feel like Number 1? You're already number one in my book. Get so over it hon? :-*

Quote from: Satinjoy on October 23, 2014, 12:48:49 PM
Nonbinary to me is an umbrella term, genderqueer is a specific presentation or identity.  Not the same.  I define gq as blending visible binaries, sometimes jarringly, for me.  Not to say for others, but for a specific one of my  presentations.

Nb is inclusive of all my presentation and gender identities.  Gq sore specific, for me.  May mean something else for.others.

Blessings

Satinjoy

What satinjoy said. As for using the GQ flag to mean nonbinary, there's an argument that you could be erasing GQ identities by equating them with nonbinary identities. The real problem is that the language and terminology surrounding all the various nb identities is still quite new and very much in a state of permanent flux, and they can and do mean different things to different people.

I don't see the difference.

If you look at the definition of Genderqueer on Wikipedia, it lists 'non-binary' as an alternative term or synonym. I view them both as catch-all terms for the vast grey area between male and female.

Quote from: Mark3 on October 23, 2014, 02:04:56 PM
I'm offended...!! There's not enough 1's for my taste..!! :D
Hahaha....... :)

The binary in the center actually is "binary" converted to binary code. So there....

Ironically the reason the enby flag isn't well known is because the gender queer flag originally covered both gender queer and enby identities, but a seperate enby flag was created after a lot of enby identified folk felt the gender queer flag didn't represent them.

Quote from: Jess42 on October 23, 2014, 02:08:57 PM
OMG how many 1's do you want. Would more make you feel like Number 1? You're already number one in my book. Get so over it hon? :-*

Haha... :)
We're #1..! :D
Ditto for sure.!  :icon_mrgreen:

Also, who gets to decide what colors go on which flag? I did not even know there were non-binary and genderqueer flags in the first place.

I think that genderqueer is a type of non-binary, right?

If there's a non-binary flag separate from the genderqueer flag, just use that one. More usage = better visibility.

Maybe they were upset because they're trying too hard to separate the two identities, or maybe there is something of substance to their distress. You could make both types of stamps to appease everyone, right?

Quote from: Jaime R D on October 23, 2014, 03:01:20 PM
The binary in the center actually is "binary" converted to binary code. So there....

I guess its okay then..... Lol.. :) :)

There are other users who have created Non-Binary stamps with the Genderqueer flag and a few with its correct Non-Binary flag. Nonetheless, I don't want to upset people or make them feel like their identities are being erased so I will create a new stamp for Non-Binary with its correct flag and a Genderqueer flag with its correct flag but I will still leave my original stamp up in-case people are already using it. If people can see that there are new stamps, they can change their stamp to the new updated version or if they don't want to, that is of course, their right. I hope the person who privately messaged me can understand that.

Nonbinary.org also uses the genderqueer flag and genderqueerid.com uses the genderqueer flag and calls it the genderqueer and non-binary flag... It doesn't help that the sites outside of the Gender Wiki aren't up-to-date yet :P I have always wondered when the Non-Binary flag was created so I looked it up and it was created in February 2014 so that makes sense that visibility and awareness hasn't spread enough yet.  Here are the new stamps:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa105%2FAnAngelByMySide%2FNonBinaryStamp2_zps9905159e.png&hash=45a3302dc086404a494bbb5a681693b93c6c2852)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa105%2FAnAngelByMySide%2FGenderQueerStamp1_zps55315ad3.png&hash=f5aab25dde95d57540aad06f4318c38654b538a4)

i don't like flags too much.
plant a flag in the earth somewhere to claim ownership over the land.
ignoring the indigenous peoples of that land is perfectly ok.

they're good for some nationalistic display on rare occasions, but i'd never use a flag to celebrate anything if the group who gather under it aren't at peace with other groups. been a while since i felt comfortable waving the norwegian flag around.

the genderqueer flag is nice, the transgender flag is too.
even the non-binary is nice, but i miss some ultraviolet in it.
and the stripes don't look very creative.

Quote from: EchelonHunt on October 23, 2014, 12:29:54 PM
A user privately messaged me to tell me that my stamp had the "wrong" flag, that not all genderqueer individuals identify as non-binary and that not all non-binary identify as genderqueer.

Gawd. Someone's trying to start a fight. Hard for me to imagine what would make someone care whether or not you use the genderqueer flag, other than that they're a controlling busybody.

Quote from: EchelonHunt on October 24, 2014, 12:52:23 AM
There are other users who have created Non-Binary stamps with the Genderqueer flag and a few with its correct Non-Binary flag. Nonetheless, I don't want to upset people or make them feel like their identities are being erased so I will create a new stamp for Non-Binary with its correct flag and a Genderqueer flag with its correct flag but I will still leave my original stamp up in-case people are already using it. If people can see that there are new stamps, they can change their stamp to the new updated version or if they don't want to, that is of course, their right. I hope the person who privately messaged me can understand that.

Nonbinary.org also uses the genderqueer flag and genderqueerid.com uses the genderqueer flag and calls it the genderqueer and non-binary flag... It doesn't help that the sites outside of the Gender Wiki aren't up-to-date yet :P I have always wondered when the Non-Binary flag was created so I looked it up and it was created in February 2014 so that makes sense that visibility and awareness hasn't spread enough yet.  Here are the new stamps:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa105%2FAnAngelByMySide%2FNonBinaryStamp2_zps9905159e.png&hash=45a3302dc086404a494bbb5a681693b93c6c2852)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa105%2FAnAngelByMySide%2FGenderQueerStamp1_zps55315ad3.png&hash=f5aab25dde95d57540aad06f4318c38654b538a4)

Satinjoy is amuzed.  Look at my description, what kind of flag could encompass all of that?

Love it.  A radical trans identity, and yet you all really do understand it.

LOL.

But re the rest of it, labels and getting hung up on them, why.  I mean, I get the intensity of being gq and often politically gq at that, to make a strong statement, but at the end of the day, we are simply unique, and it means getting to know us.

My gender is "Satinjoy".  Yours is ... "you".  I'd say Jayce but it leaves out some elements I think, I'd have to re read your posts again.

We are "we" and "me".  Labels are just group identifiers, yet, we can cross groups, so what the heck?

sounds way too complicated to sort out to me. 

When I first heard the term genderqueer, and then the term nonbinary, they were pretty much one and the same. People still use them as virtually identical terms, like they do with transsexual and transgender.

I've, at this point, run screaming from the label "genderqueer" because NOW it seems to have a context more along the lines of--pardon my french--genderf***, which seems too lightweight and deliberate compared to what I experience, but I'm a total pedant and even *I* think I'm nitpicking when I make this distinction.

Like Suzi said, sounds like someone's just trying to start a fight. I'm surprised this didn't happen on Tumblr.  :P