Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was thinking about this for awhile now and am really curious what others think about it. What if you legally be considered transgender? Like instead of an M or an F on your records it said T. Then regardless how you felt about your identity you still be able to be yourself without any kind of problems. Your name then would be used to determine whether it's a Ms or Mr. I know something like this would never happen in my lifetime but still is it not something to thing about? We all share that common identity don't we?

-Kati

Quote from: Kati on August 11, 2007, 12:51:41 PM
I was thinking about this for awhile now and am really curious what others think about it. What if you legally be considered transgender? Like instead of an M or an F on your records it said T. Then regardless how you felt about your identity you still be able to be yourself without any kind of problems. Your name then would be used to determine whether it's a Ms or Mr. I know something like this would never happen in my lifetime but still is it not something to thing about? We all share that common identity don't we?

-Kati

it may work for some, not for me. 

QuoteWe all share that common identity don't we?

per your post, i assume we don't?.  i'm female & want to be seen and accepted as female.

Quote from: Katia on August 11, 2007, 12:58:55 PM
per your post, i assume we don't?.  i'm female & want to be seen and accepted as female.

Well one could always correct everything after the transition process but wouldn't it just make things easier during and what about the none transsexuals. I mean I myself would eventually want to be seen as female legally and accepted as that.

Edit: Specially if you could get the identity change to T without a court order, therapists, or doctors.

Hi Kati,

   I've thought of that too.  I've been writing letters to places that only offer M or F for choices on web sites and stuff.  I crossed out the M on my town census and wrote in a T and added a brief explanation.
   I am never going to be a man or a woman, so for me, it'd be for life.

   I also hate having to choose mr miss mrs on forms and try to not choose anything.  Today, I've been thinking of forcing people to call me Mystery Rebis.  Myst for short. Heh.

   I think it is a good idea for people who are in the process who desire to identify as a person who is making a life change and for people like myself who will never join the ranks of Ms and Fs.

   Please get on it.  I'm giving you a week to get it done.  :D  (kidding)

If it were possible, I suspect they'd force those of us who just want M or F to have T instead. I wouldn't like that at all.

Dennis

I think the scenario that Kati created is that it is purely voluntary.

It would lose it's meaning if it were forced upon you. In my opinion.

Quote from: Dennis on August 11, 2007, 06:06:15 PM
If it were possible, I suspect they'd force those of us who just want M or F to have T instead. I wouldn't like that at all.

Ack.. that wouldn't be good at all.. I need my F.   :-\

There are some of us who are T but not M or F.

If this was PURELY, 100% voluntary?

I'd be 100% for it.  But the laws regarding it would have to be dead strict on allowing the freedom to choose either a binary marker or a T marker.  THAT should be a choice of the person, no ifs, ands or buts.  The choice of any of them, M or F or T, should be based on identity and presentation, and the person, not on what a government wants of a person.

I wouldn't choose the 'T' option for myself, I don't like defining myself by a medical condition.  I identify primarily by what I am inside, the fact that I need to alter my body and presentation to match to be happy is very much secondary.  So I'd much rather have an 'I' option for intergender (would also work for androgynes and intersex people).

I don't really consider myself intergender, though... I consider myself non-gendered.

A T or an A or an N would be better...  Perhaps an N for "non-specified?"

Quote from: Tay on August 11, 2007, 06:45:25 PM
I don't really consider myself intergender, though... I consider myself non-gendered.

A T or an A or an N would be better...  Perhaps an N for "non-specified?"

I think anything other than 'O' for other might just LEAD TO WAR!  :)

Quote from: Andra on August 11, 2007, 06:53:00 PM

Quote from: Tay on August 11, 2007, 06:45:25 PM
I don't really consider myself intergender, though... I consider myself non-gendered.

A T or an A or an N would be better...  Perhaps an N for "non-specified?"

I think anything other than 'O' for other might just LEAD TO WAR!  :)

O?

I often cross off M and F or make an alternate check box for other and check that. I really hate filling out electronic forms that require Mr or Mrs to work.... you can't just leave them blank, they don't allow you to send the letter to your senator, or whatever. There's really no need for government forms, driver's licenses, etc to require or know ones' gender. Grrrrr. I would like to be legally considered other gender than m or f.

Zythyra

I see being transsexual the same way I see being a teenager. It's a transitional phase, not what we are. And just as a teenager can not remain a person who looks like an adult but acts more like a kid, we can not remain a person who looks like our target gender but is still our birth gender. I haven't spent my life dreaming about being transsexual, I have spent my life dreaming about being a woman. I mean, do you know any adults that want to be called a teenager? No, that's an insult. It implies we are less than we should be, just as being called transsexual or transgender implies we are less than we should be.

Like teenagers, we have a label that tells people we are in a transitional phase in our life, but it is not what we are destined to be. And just as teenagers learn and grow into adulthood, the transsexual grows into their new role as their target gender leaving behind the angst and troubles that transition brings, to blossom into what they were intended to be all along. Just as the teenager becomes an adult, one can not stay in a state of transition their entire life. The transsexual becomes a woman or man just as the teenager becomes an adult.

In this regard, having a permanent label of T would be meaningless.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Tay on August 11, 2007, 06:54:18 PM

Quote from: Andra on August 11, 2007, 06:53:00 PM

Quote from: Tay on August 11, 2007, 06:45:25 PM
I don't really consider myself intergender, though... I consider myself non-gendered.

A T or an A or an N would be better...  Perhaps an N for "non-specified?"

I think anything other than 'O' for other might just LEAD TO WAR!  :)

O?

As in:
Female [ ] Male [ ] Other [ ]

As an ungender, pregender, n0ll-gender, agender -- inside/outside -- I'd enjoy that option.
Personally, I've deleted gender from my Curriculum Vitae, and have had no comment on that so far.

For the ones that don't want to be considered "T", it would be a further stigmatization and oppression.

And once you open up the door for "T" status, then you could easily make an argument for intersex classification, even moreso than T.  And that might lead to some further stigmatization on their part as well.  And given society's current view of trans, I envision ridicule rather than liberation for the people that want to be classified as T or I.

Its an interesting idea, but my opinion is to either get rid of the classification altogether, or to have it remain the same.

Maybe we could change it to:  Have penis?  Y/N  :D

    some of us are truly neither gender.  It hurts to be stuck into the current 2 options.  I don't understand why some of you can not accept the way we feel.
    This thread is just a "what if" scenario.  If you don't want to be known as a T or an O or anything else, then that's fine.  Some of us really do want the option.

    If given the opportunity, I would take a T or an O.  In fact, any time I have an opportunity, I mention it to government officials in letters.

maybe I'm beginning to take this too seriously.

I go now  :-X

Quotemaybe I'm beginning to take this too seriously.

Rebis, I don't htink you're taking this too seriously. I think that in addition to a person having the right to change to M or F without surgery or HRT, they should be able to choose the option of neither. There is no real reason why our genders even need to be on most (if any) legal forms.

Zythyra

Quote from: y2gender on August 12, 2007, 09:42:20 PM

Quotemaybe I'm beginning to take this too seriously.

Rebis, I don't htink you're taking this too seriously. I think that in addition to a person having the right to change to M or F without surgery or HRT, they should be able to choose the option of neither. There is no real reason why our genders even need to be on most (if any) legal forms.

Zythyra

You're right.  I can't see why it's needed on most forms either.

QuoteYou're right.  I can't see why it's needed on most forms either.

Unfortunately, this topic doesn't seem to be on the radar of most trans advocacy organizations yet. If anyone has any ideas on how to proceed, I'm interested.

Zythyra 

Quote from: Suzie on August 12, 2007, 06:17:11 PM
Maybe we could change it to:  Have penis?  Y/N  :D

Interesting idea heheh but really that's like the same thing isn't it?

Quote from: y2gender on August 12, 2007, 09:42:20 PM
Rebis, I don't htink you're taking this too seriously. I think that in addition to a person having the right to change to M or F without surgery or HRT, they should be able to choose the option of neither. There is no real reason why our genders even need to be on most (if any) legal forms.

Zythyra

Ohh now that would be perfect!

Quote from: y2gender on August 13, 2007, 10:09:56 AM

QuoteYou're right.  I can't see why it's needed on most forms either.

Unfortunately, this topic doesn't seem to be on the radar of most trans advocacy organizations yet. If anyone has any ideas on how to proceed, I'm interested.

Zythyra 

me too!

Quote from: Katia on August 11, 2007, 12:58:55 PM
it may work for some, not for me. 

QuoteWe all share that common identity don't we?

per your post, i assume we don't?.  i'm female & want to be seen and accepted as female.

I feel exactly the same way as Katia described. 

For the most part, I am seen as female everywhere.  I have an F on my driver's license.  I always put F on forms, etc.  However, I'm still pre-op.  If I needed to put T on my documents instead of F, that would not suffice as all.  M is at least better than T because that can be passed off as a data entry error.

Quote from: Tay on August 11, 2007, 06:21:50 PM
I'd be 100% for it.  But the laws regarding it would have to be dead strict on allowing the freedom to choose either a binary marker or a T marker.  THAT should be a choice of the person, no ifs, ands or buts.  The choice of any of them, M or F or T, should be based on identity and presentation, and the person, not on what a government wants of a person.

There is no purpose served by having Ms and Fs on picture IDs.  On non-picture IDs, they only serve the purpose of suggesting the appearance of someone who has a gender-ambiguous name.

Posted on: August 13, 2007, 06:54:20 PM

---

Quote from: no_id on August 11, 2007, 07:11:49 PM
Female [ ] Male [ ] Other [ ]

How about:
Female [ ] Male [ ] Not applicable [ ]

Posted on: August 13, 2007, 06:59:14 PM

---

Quote from: Suzie on August 12, 2007, 06:17:11 PM
Maybe we could change it to:  Have penis?  Y/N  :D

That's still binary.  How about:
Length of clitoris/penis _____

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 13, 2007, 07:01:28 PM

Quote from: Suzie on August 12, 2007, 06:17:11 PM
Maybe we could change it to:  Have penis?  Y/N  :D

That's still binary.  How about:
Length of clitoris/penis _____

And you thought people lied about their weight...  Can you imagine a 16-yr old male filling out that portion of the application?  :D  Male competition at its finest.




Posted on: August 13, 2007, 08:01:34 PM

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Quote from: Kati on August 13, 2007, 05:47:41 PM

Quote from: Suzie on August 12, 2007, 06:17:11 PM
Maybe we could change it to:  Have penis?  Y/N  :D

Interesting idea heheh but really that's like the same thing isn't it?

Hence the  :D

Why does your biological sex have to be checked when filling an application for employment?  It's a voluntary option here.  You're not required to check it with the exception of certain matters like getting a passport or birth certificate.

Quote from: Butterfly on August 13, 2007, 08:08:41 PM
Why does your biological sex have to be checked when filling an application for employment?  It's a voluntary option here.  You're not required to check it with the exception of certain matters like getting a passport or birth certificate.

   We live in a messed up culture.  It was probably done initially for the reason Lisbeth said - to determine more about people with gender ambiguous names.  Plus, it was probably yet another way for men to weed out the females looking for employment.  Or, even FtM's looking for employment back before anyone knew what an FtM was. Imagine a woman who passed as male in almost every way taking jobs perceived to be male only. The establishment is constantly seeking ways in which to denigrate people and to provide certain people with greater opportunities.  Woman couldn't even vote here until less than a hundred years ago.   It was probably also a way to keep them from voting.

   You CAN NOT allow a woman to speak her mind or to hold a MAN'S job.  >:( <--- according to this guy, anyway.  So don't you even try to do such things.   >:(

Sorry but that's a primitive and backwards philosophy.  Not something I'd have expected from the US of A.

Quote from: Butterfly on August 13, 2007, 08:28:02 PM
Sorry but that's a primitive and backwards philosophy.  Not something I'd have expected from the US of A.

     The America that is sold to the world is a dream America.  We keep struggling to keep up with you modern nations.
     I'm not kidding much either.

Female [ ] Male [ ] Other [ ]

The DC license has this precise form. 
DC allows anybody with a therapist letter to change the gender marker on the license. 

As with anything it would depend on how it was used.  I have this nagging feeling that if you put T on for instance a job application, you might not get offered the job.

What I would RATHER campaign for is the elimination of the M or F on drivers licenses.  I don't think just because I want to use a credit card to check into a hotel, the clerk has a right to peruse through my gender or sex status.  It's completely inconsequential.  I mean, really.  What is the reason for that letter on so many public ID cards?

there was an arguement about this on a site called facebook, they wanted M, F and T in gender boxes, so transexuals (self proclaimed) could label themselves correctly, i think somerts up there ><

Im a woman, i tick f and have no issue. M f and other maybe, but T just further steriotypes us as different, and more reason to be treated like second class citizens, its like having tick : white/black...

R :police:

I didn't transition to have to put a "T" on any form.  I guess for someone who does not want to transition a "T" is fine.  And if we are going to add that, why not Androgynes also?


Sarah L.

cant we just have a 'give your gender' box, cos at this rate, its gonna be a bloody alphabet.

currently forms have male and female, because the law doesnt recognise T as a sex, it wants to know if your legally male or female, there is no legal middleground.

R :police:

The T & A might get cause giggles.

I am all for a T, A, or O (ironically those 3 spell Tao). Would make getting pulled over by police and dressed up a little less embarassing, since the police would know that means gender ambigious, and it is included in such state recognition. Also if travelling or passport and such. Only a few applications included Other, that I have filled out. Website registration seldom has Other. Getting carded buying alcohol, pornography, or cigarettes would lessen the fear of discovery.

you BUY porn?
R :police:

Me personally, yes. One of my favorite mags is adult. They have carded me before.

tut...

i hear theres some on the internet if you have a look around, quite hard to find i hear. never looked *whistle*

R :police:

Would rather have the high quality glossy. Fits in my car just right for when I am on lunch break. Printers copies just arent my type of media.

i have no need for pr0n. i have my man! :D

R :police:

Name         : ...............................
Surname     : ...............................
D.O.B.        : ...............................
Gender       : ...............................
Nationality  : ...............................

with respect for everyones gender identities, and expressions.
i have absolutely no issue with male/female/other
society on a whole is still a binary, and i expect it will remain this way for a very long time, i fit with this and like it. i have no problems with a male and female world. and the legal and medical systems MUST have a person as either male or female, there is no intermediate, no androgyne jails, or hospital wings.

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 21, 2007, 12:43:04 PM
with respect for everyones gender identities, and expressions.
i have absolutely no issue with male/female/other
R :police:

It's all we're asking, Kid.

Quote from: Rebis on August 21, 2007, 12:44:10 PM

Quote from: Rachael on August 21, 2007, 12:43:04 PM
with respect for everyones gender identities, and expressions.
i have absolutely no issue with male/female/other
R :police:

It's all we're asking, Kid.

*Wonders why Reeb capitalised kid...*

cos i r teh kid init ><

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 21, 2007, 12:49:22 PM
cos i r teh kid init ><

R :police:

Me no speak leet. Please you say where next whiskeybar is?  ???

Quoteand the legal and medical systems MUST have a person as either male or female, there is no intermediate, no androgyne jails, or hospital wings.

I'm not aware of any instance in which my sex/gender MUST need to be known and/or segregated. As far as medical personnel, if my doctor needs to know, I will tell them, although after years in med school, one would hope they could figure that out.  ;)

Zythyra

legal system must have you as male or female, for one....
there are only mens and womens prisons... you must face the law as a binary. its just how it its.
medically, ofcourse there are mixed wards, but you must have either male or female as your legal sex. medically and legally, its just how the world works atm.
R :police:

Ummmm.... NO!   Not for me.  I'm female.  If anything I'd like the option to put in a "-" (dash) meaning I decline or I refuse to be put into your little pidgeon holes.

Anyway, how are you going to get people to accept T when they still use "sex" on the form rather than "gender"?

because they want to know what physical body thier employee for example,. will have, some jobs require a male, some a female. some dont care. its just how it is.

R :police:

Quotelegal system must have you as male or female, for one....
there are only mens and womens prisons... you must face the law as a binary. its just how it its.

With any luck, I won't ever have to deal with the jail part  ::)

Quotemedically, ofcourse there are mixed wards, but you must have either male or female as your legal sex. medically and legally, its just how the world works atm.

Yes, that's how it works now, but I don't believe there's necessarily good reason for it to continue this way.

Zythyra

Quote from: no_id on August 20, 2007, 04:48:14 PM
Name         : ...............................
Surname     : ...............................
D.O.B.        : ...............................
Gender       : ...............................
Nationality  : ...............................

From a programmer's point of view (perhaps this applies to data entry as well), using a selection of available choices is a means of reducing data errors.  The term for this is "poka-yoke", which roughly translated from Japanese means "to avoid inadvertent mistakes".  By allowing a text box for people, you could end up with values such as "F", "Female", "woman", "girl", "womyn" or it could be misspelled (and you know somebody WILL do that).  It also speeds up data entry for a person when they just need to select an existing option. 

The thing is, the majority of programmers/form designers/database designers are not even aware that there is anything besides male and female, and even if they are, several things different need to coordinate (such as having "Androgyne" on both the form AND in the database AND in the data entry program).  So those are some reasons why so few of forms have it.  Although it's true that having it be a legally recognized gender AND having people aware of it would most likely make many of these forms and programs have the option of something besides male and female, it unnecessary to make it legal to have additional options placed on forms or in programs.  Just educating people should be enough to start achieving this.  I for one will try and add something besides male/female (most likely just "Other") for my programs, although I haven't even added a field like this in quite a while.  I probably wouldn't be placing 6 different options or whatever it was because I don't want to show I know so much and I don't want it to get confusing to non-TG people filling out forms.

i am fine ticking M for sex...but for gender i start to have problems.
Most ask for sex, and the last time I checked, my sex was unequivocally male.

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 21, 2007, 03:29:09 PM
i am fine ticking M for sex...but for gender i start to have problems.
Most ask for sex, and the last time I checked, my sex was unequivocally male.

In my recent experience, it seems that most ask me for gender.  Perhaps it has something to do with where we live.

Regarding your sex being "unequivocally male", I actually thought you were female born for a while. ::)

True, I was female born...but I don't know anyone that wasn't. Except Bob, but he was an experiment and they never tried that again.

Quote from: Melissa on August 21, 2007, 03:20:57 PM

Quote from: no_id on August 20, 2007, 04:48:14 PM
Name         : ...............................
Surname     : ...............................
D.O.B.        : ...............................
Gender       : ...............................
Nationality  : ...............................

From a programmer's point of view (perhaps this applies to data entry as well), using a selection of available choices is a means of reducing data errors.  The term for this is "poka-yoke", which roughly translated from Japanese means "to avoid inadvertent mistakes".  By allowing a text box for people, you could end up with values such as "F", "Female", "woman", "girl", "womyn" or it could be misspelled (and you know somebody WILL do that).  It also speeds up data entry for a person when they just need to select an existing option. 

The thing is, the majority of programmers/form designers/database designers are not even aware that there is anything besides male and female, and even if they are, several things different need to coordinate (such as having "Androgyne" on both the form AND in the database AND in the data entry program).  So those are some reasons why so few of forms have it.  Although it's true that having it be a legally recognized gender AND having people aware of it would most likely make many of these forms and programs have the option of something besides male and female, it unnecessary to make it legal to have additional options placed on forms or in programs.  Just educating people should be enough to start achieving this.  I for one will try and add something besides male/female (most likely just "Other") for my programs, although I haven't even added a field like this in quite a while.  I probably wouldn't be placing 6 different options or whatever it was because I don't want to show I know so much and I don't want it to get confusing to non-TG people filling out forms.

Having worked with a simple program as SPSS I can completely understand that it's a heck lot of extra work xD
At this point I still think F/M/O is the best option and easily processed, though as Andra would say; some individuals who do identify as F or M might choose O as a politcal standpoint.

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 21, 2007, 03:41:01 PMTrue, I was female born...but I don't know anyone that wasn't.

By "female born", I'm not talking about starting off as female in utero, but rather what you were when you were actually born. :)

oh, meat and two veg,

Quote from: no_id on August 21, 2007, 12:44:50 PM

Quote from: Rebis on August 21, 2007, 12:44:10 PM

Quote from: Rachael on August 21, 2007, 12:43:04 PM
with respect for everyones gender identities, and expressions.
i have absolutely no issue with male/female/other
R :police:

It's all we're asking, Kid.

*Wonders why Reeb capitalised kid...*

So am I, Kid, so am I (wondering)

Absolutely NOT. I'm female or nothing. If I can't be a woman I will f***ing die trying. I just know that if a "transgender" category is established somebody will try to relegate us all into that like Jews into a concentration camp, and I ain't goin'. Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, baby. I keep seeing the assumption (usually by cisgender people) that trans people have to form a "third gender." I'm having none of that. I'm a woman.

I have no problem with "Other" as a voluntary category for any who feel excluded by M and F--although as has been pointed out, everyone still has to deal with a binary-gendered structure of the world, however we prefer to define ourselves. That is an issue that would take a lot more to reform than adding an extra box to check on forms.

i dont think this is forcing anyone trans to be 3rd gender, if it is, ill fight it til i die....
i am woman, here me rawr!
R :police:

I believe the topic scenario is that choosing to be T is entirely voluntary.

Ah, but Reeb.  The slippery slope fallacy says that if the option is there, then ZOMG THE PEOPLE WILL ROUND UP THE TRANSSEXUALS AND FORCE THEM TO MARK AS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE!

Obviously.

The binary and their investment in it is FAR more important than the comfort of a group who probably doesn't exist anyway, right?

I'd be in favor of a third option, if all 3 boxes were completely voluntary.
However, I'm afraid if a third option were implemented, it would be meant for transsexuals who've had SRS, instead of non-binary people. Everybody would probably be forced to choose anatomical sex, with those who've had SRS expected to check 'transgender', and everybody else check their birth sex.
I'm afraid the more people transition, the more we move toward such a thing, given society's obsession with genitals.
Even those who 'accept' transgendered people feel we should 'warn' everyone what genital package we received at birth.

Quote from: Nero on September 04, 2007, 02:10:06 PM
Even those who 'accept' transgendered people feel we should 'warn' everyone what genital package we received at birth.

Yep. Being totally selfish here, I LIKE the binary system. I WANT to fit into it... just on the other side now.

It's an irony the public sometimes doesn't get, where they might see me as trying to redefine gender lines and expression, pushing the boundaries and all that. And here I am, WANTING to fit into their binary, wanting to conform and just be another girl. I'm no activist. I'm not exploring gender divisions. I can see everyone finding out about my TS past saying, "Oh, so you're not REALLY female, you're transgender!"

BUT... I'm sympathetic to the plight of androgynes and other people who DO push the boundaries and question the lines, so I'd be more than happy to vote for a T option anyway... and just deal with the consequences to me.

But *I* am checking F ;)

~Kate~

Quote from: Tay on September 04, 2007, 12:35:42 PM
Ah, but Reeb.  The slippery slope fallacy says that if the option is there, then ZOMG THE PEOPLE WILL ROUND UP THE TRANSSEXUALS AND FORCE THEM TO MARK AS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE!

Obviously.

The binary and their investment in it is FAR more important than the comfort of a group who probably doesn't exist anyway, right?

yeah, I always forget the majority of people are jerks  ;D

Posted on: September 04, 2007, 03:59:31 PM

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Quote from: Nero on September 04, 2007, 02:10:06 PM
I'd be in favor of a third option, if all 3 boxes were completely voluntary.
However, I'm afraid if a third option were implemented, it would be meant for transsexuals who've had SRS, instead of non-binary people. Everybody would probably be forced to choose anatomical sex, with those who've had SRS expected to check 'transgender', and everybody else check their birth sex.
I'm afraid the more people transition, the more we move toward such a thing, given society's obsession with genitals.
Even those who 'accept' transgendered people feel we should 'warn' everyone what genital package we received at birth.

From the way people have always treated me, I've always felt they all just assume I have no genital package to begin with.

Quote from: Kate on September 04, 2007, 02:46:31 PM
It's an irony the public sometimes doesn't get, where they might see me as trying to redefine gender lines and expression, pushing the boundaries and all that. And here I am, WANTING to fit into their binary, wanting to conform and just be another girl. I'm no activist. I'm not exploring gender divisions. I can see everyone finding out about my TS past saying, "Oh, so you're not REALLY female, you're transgender!"

BUT... I'm sympathetic to the plight of androgynes and other people who DO push the boundaries and question the lines, so I'd be more than happy to vote for a T option anyway... and just deal with the consequences to me.

But *I* am checking F ;)

~Kate~

Are we pushing the boundaries any more than you are?  I think it's only this: one box is completely wrong for you, and nothing will work for you until you can escape it for the other.  But for the androgynes of the world -- who didn't choose what they are any more than you did -- nothing will work until they can cut open both boxes, to extend themselves into -- and outside of -- both.

By all means -- check the box that's right for you, if one is.  Check no box or several if you must.  If anyone's not in this to end up in the place that's right for them, I can't understand why they are in it at all.

For the first time, I actually found a questionnaire where the three gender choices were Male, Female, Transgender. I contacted the National Center for Lesbian Rights about lawyer referral, and they sent me a questionnaire to have me in their database. Those were the three choices. I marked both "Female" and "Transgender" because my legal issue specifically concerned the latter, so in this case I saw it as relevant. But for life in general, no way.