Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It's a commonly held view even in the trans* community, I think, that people who identify as nonbinary don't want surgery, hormones, or any of the traditional tools of transition.  Why would anyone ever want too?  Who would ever want to reject the binary system of gender when they could just be "normal", right?  And people who don't accept that system-it's not like they could ever have body issues!  It's utterly insane.  I've come across this before even in the gender community, and it represents a complete erasure of my identity as a transsexual woman and a transgender person.  If trans 101 is that gender and sex are separate-why can't I be both transexual and transgender?  Why are the two mutually exclusive?  I know of people who completely transcend gender bounderies, but have no desire to change their body.  I know people who have changed their sex and fully transitioned, but violate the laws of social gender far less than most "cis" people do...and yet we say they are the same thing. 

So I ask all of you who are both-what are your experiences?  How do you deal with the prevailing view what one identity cancels the other out?

Uh...

Okay so here we enter the realm of "we need a dictionary".

According to google:

################################
    trans·gen·der
    transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
    adjective
    adjective: transgendered
        denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.
        "a transgender activist and author"

    trans·sex·u·al
    tran(t)(s)ˈsekSH(əw)əl/
    noun
    noun: transsexual; plural noun: transsexuals; noun: transexual; plural noun: transexuals
        1.
        a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex.
        synonyms:   hermaphrodite, androgyne, epicene, intersex, transgendered person; More
        informalgender-bender, ->-bleeped-<-
            a person who has undergone treatment in order to acquire the physical characteristics of the opposite sex.
            synonyms:   hermaphrodite, androgyne, epicene, intersex, transgendered person; More
            informalgender-bender, ->-bleeped-<-
    adjective
    adjective: transsexual; adjective: transexual
        1.
        of or relating to transsexuals.


###############################

Huh... Google is surprisingly unhelpful.

I mean, I never really thought that having done any type of transition would mean that you weren't transgendered, just that you'd done something to make yourself more comfortable in your skin.

I didn't mean it that way AT ALL!  All I was trying to say is that there are some people who were once members of the opposite sex, that in their current state of existance in no way do "not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender".  I don't think that at all-it's just that I feel like people tend to think that you can't want surgery if you're non-binary.  It's just something I've personally run into.

The non-binary folks here seem pretty diverse. I can't think of any two who really share the same identity. So it seems odd to me that people would think you can't transition a certain way and still be non-binary. Even the term 'non-binary' seems to mean different things depending on who you ask. Lots of people consider me non-binary, even though I don't see myself that way.

I've had to educate people around me several times already, some try, but just can't seem to understand.?

To me, Transgender isn't a specific identity, but a blanket term. Like the word "Car" is a blanket term for lots of different shapes and sizes of automobiles.

Transexual is in the description above, but doesn't it mean most thinking/feeling like the opposite of your birthsex, and being sexually attracted to others according to your internal identity.?

My CIS friends think transgender means completely changing genders, and its been hard to educate them about the different terms and identities within the term "Transgender".. Most CIS just don't have a clue, except my friends who know me well, and know other trans people, they all seem well educated and understand.

If I were younger, I might be very interested in taking hormones, but not surgery. But non binary can incompass a multitude of different needs and desires..

To answer your comment, YES it is insane, that people assume those things.. Personally, I'd love to possibly transition more dramatically at some point, it might feel really natural at the right time..

Most people outside this community are never going to understand that for the most part..

Quote from: WikipediaDiagnosis

Transsexualism appears in the two major diagnostic manuals used by mental health professionals worldwide, the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM, currently in its fifth edition) and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD, currently in its tenth edition). The ICD-10 incorporates transsexualism, dual role transvestism, and gender identity disorder of childhood into its gender identity disorder category. It defines transsexualism as "[a] desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by a sense of discomfort with, or inappropriateness of, one's anatomic sex, and a wish to have surgery and hormonal treatment to make one's body as congruent as possible with one's preferred sex."[4] The DSM does not distinguish between gender identity disorder and transsexualism, and defines transvestic fetishism as a separate phenomenon which may co-occur with transsexualism. The DSM diagnosis requires four components:[5]

- A desire or insistence that one is of the opposite biological sex (that is not due to a perceived advantage of being the other sex).
- Evidence of persistent discomfort with, and perceived inappropriateness of the individual's biological sex.
- The individual is not intersex (although a diagnosis of GID Not Otherwise Specified is available, which enables intersex people who reject their sex-assignment to access transsexual treatments).
- Evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in work or social life.

transsexualism is a very specific diagnose, one that says you want to be the opposite sex. full transformation if possible. in some countries, this diagnose is the only one that gives a right to treatment.

transgender is less specific, and also includes people who want less or no physical changes. if the term is used right, it means the same as having gender dysphoria, or being treated for this medically or with other therapy.

gender identity disorder has been renamed to gender dysphoria. transgender people no longer have a disorder according to the dsm, but have a dysphoria that very often needs medical treatment.

some people insist on using transsexualism only about themselves, as a diagnose of a problem. they don't think it's right to use trans or transperson or other variants that create an identity. it may be good to consider oneself as a man or a woman diagnosed with or having been treated for transsexualism, but that really leaves out all non-binary transgender people who actually identity as a gender variant other than male or female. i'm very close to hating the harry benjamin resource center in norway, because they actually try to rob me of my right to an identity, and tell me when i write to them asking whether there are any possibilities for me to get help, that i don't have any right to it.

where is that resource center that protects all transgender people's right to happiness?

I'm a non-binary trans woman. I'm living 100% female despite my identity. I love it.

There is NO LAW that says that non-binary people can't transition to the presentation that makes us the most comfortable. We are NOT merely cheerleaders consigned to the sidelines doomed to support binary folks while they celebrate their wonderful transitions.

they're trying to make that law in denmark, suzi.
never take your freedom for granted...

Quote from: Taka on October 31, 2014, 06:19:47 AM
they're trying to make that law in denmark, suzi.
never take your freedom for granted...

All the more reason for asserting our right to transition while we still have it, right?

Quote from: Taka on October 31, 2014, 06:19:47 AM
they're trying to make that law in denmark, suzi.
never take your freedom for granted...

What the actual ---k?

I think a lot of enby folk pretend to fit the binary trans narrative to get what they want, either deliberately, or through self deception. My partner identifies as a gender queer boi, they don't want their boobs and get horrible beard envy, but don't care about GRS. They are having to pretend to be FtM to get treatment.

Gender runs through everything, a bit like the matrix, and it exists to keep people under control in little boxes.

Also speaking of the matrix, re-watch it from the PoV of the trans experience and baring in mind Lana Wachowski essentially used the money from the film to fund her transition. It may actually be one of the best stories about what it's like to be trans, without being about being trans at all.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 31, 2014, 10:05:21 AM
Also speaking of the matrix, re-watch it from the PoV of the trans experience and baring in mind Lana Wachowski essentially used the money from the film to fund her transition. It may actually be one of the best stories about what it's like to be trans, without being about being trans at all.

Now I am going to have to re-watch that film just to view it from the PoV of the trans experience!

Do it. You will be like OMG! Mind = Blown.

it's true about denmark. some idiots have decided it's a good idea to require those who want cross sex hormones to go through that one and only national gid clinic. if the law passes, they can revoke any doc's licence who gives hrt to a transgender person. they've already a few years ago started a major witch hunt where that good of the patient isn't even taken into consideration. the gid clinic has seriously long waitlists, it can take over a year to get in for evaluation after the initial interview, and they work on long past outdated harry benjamin principles. no nb people will ever get through that evaluation without lying, even binary trans people have to lie about their degree of dysphoria, and all kinds of ridiculous stuff. i'd automatically be rejected because i have a child, trans guys are required to hate their genitals to death and be utterly disgusted by the thought of carrying a child.
i'm not far from wishing all the misery life can possibly give a person, upon those idiots who are trying to drive young trans persons to suicide.

contact natkat for a link to a petition to get a right to treatment under informed consent. that would allow doctors to do what they know is best for the patient, rather than be forced to reject people in need. many trans people are in danger of losing access to life saving hrt because they've gotten that from private practitioners after the national gid clinic rejected them.

if the law is passed in denmark, there's a real danger it will be in norway too. what's already difficult will become completely impossible.

Erm, hello...

I've never heard of this view but I'm new here and not very educated in gender theories. From what I've gathered so far there seems to be incredible diversity within the non-binary community.  Having recently completed top surgery, I guess by some definitions, that would make me a transsexual (?) But I've never had any illusion that I'm FTM - my surgeon did not require me to pretend that I did - and in fact, my own inner search is about whether I'm really non-binary or just androgynous cis. :-\ My experience so far has been overwhelmingly positive because I found a good friend online who is also non-binary post-op and he's helped me deal with both the medical and identity stuff. But...we'll see...I haven't socialized much outside of cis circles, so there's a lot left to learn.

Will comment, probably strongly, Monday.

Satinjoy

Quote from: Taka on November 01, 2014, 07:14:17 AM
it's true about denmark. some idiots have decided it's a good idea to require those who want cross sex hormones to go through that one and only national gid clinic. if the law passes, they can revoke any doc's licence who gives hrt to a transgender person. they've already a few years ago started a major witch hunt where that good of the patient isn't even taken into consideration. the gid clinic has seriously long waitlists, it can take over a year to get in for evaluation after the initial interview, and they work on long past outdated harry benjamin principles. no nb people will ever get through that evaluation without lying, even binary trans people have to lie about their degree of dysphoria, and all kinds of ridiculous stuff. i'd automatically be rejected because i have a child, trans guys are required to hate their genitals to death and be utterly disgusted by the thought of carrying a child.
i'm not far from wishing all the misery life can possibly give a person, upon those idiots who are trying to drive young trans persons to suicide.

contact natkat for a link to a petition to get a right to treatment under informed consent. that would allow doctors to do what they know is best for the patient, rather than be forced to reject people in need. many trans people are in danger of losing access to life saving hrt because they've gotten that from private practitioners after the national gid clinic rejected them.

if the law is passed in Denmark, there's a real danger it will be in Norway too. what's already difficult will become completely impossible.

Dear lord that is horrible.

Things can be stupid in the US sometimes, but they seem to be getting slowly better...

Technically there is the herbal route, but that is a minefield of self-medication.  (Not that I am innocent of that myself...)

Europe is pretty dense, how feasible or legit would it be to see a doctor in a neighbouring country, Germany, Sweden, Norway?
(So stupid to need to though...)

------------------------------------

But back on topic, I am non-binary and and trans...  I have GD that has my core identity as Androgyne, full HRT would be too much and too fast for me, low dose is what I need to silence the GD noise in my head.  But that is not enough to alter body contour, so I do targeted muscle building with strength yoga and protein shakes.  As well as accouple obscure exercises that aggressively narrow the waist.  Working on unwanted hair with a Tria laser.  It seems to be working so far.  I think HRT, hair removal, and wilful body contour alteration certainly count as trans, even if the details of my situation are less common than other!  :)

My goal is balanced an non-dissonant androgyny, and my age that might be hard to pull off, and a male or andro-male presentation.  The social stuff isn't as important to me.  If I woke up tomorrow perfectly and beautifully female, I'd just say "Hey cool."  Put on jeans, a t-shirt, and no makeup and go to work.  I'm just in the middle, and as long as I am not strongly binary physically I am ambivalent about the details.

Once the beard is gone and I lose 30lbs, I'll be down to two or three genders worth of normal body image issues*, but that is a piece of cake compared to GD.

* Won't really care at all, but ad copy and media do a number on us all.  How much more so those of us that never see any version of ourselves presented as acceptable, let alone ideal.


- Jaded Jade

Quote from: Jaded Jade on November 01, 2014, 02:13:45 PM
Dear lord that is horrible.

Things can be stupid in the US sometimes, but they seem to be getting slowly better...

------------------------------------

But back on topic, I am non-binary and and trans...  I have GD that has my core identity as Androgyne, full HRT would be too much and too fast for me, low dose is what I need to silence the GD noise in my head.....    I think HRT, hair removal, and wilful body contour alteration certainly count as trans, even if the details of my situation are less common than other!  :)

My goal is balanced and non-dissonant androgyny, and my age that might be hard to pull off, and a male or andro-male presentation.  The social stuff isn't as important to me.  If I woke up tomorrow perfectly and beautifully female, I'd just say "Hey cool."  Put on jeans, a t-shirt, and no makeup and go to work.  I'm just in the middle, and as long as I am not strongly binary physically I am ambivalent about the details.

- Jaded Jade

Vestyn

My experience and journey, with the addition of some facial surgery, is similar to Jade's. As you say your current journey is to determine whether you are non binary or cis androgynous so it seems pretty normal to me.   

Jade

IMO dysphoria is powerful and dangerous.  Depending upon its strength,  treatment is usually a necessity and avoids much personal and social stress and damage.  Taka's comments re Norway and Denmark are unsettling - I am not sure why one country discriminates against or in favour of one group over another as it seems to me an inalienable right  and a reasonable expectation of the medical profession and government that they do not withhold access to necessary treatment and surgery.

Safe travels

Aisla

that old f64.0 is the diagnose that once upon a time got a right to treatment. laws haven't changed, and because there are sp few people in our countries, the national gid clinics have kind of gotten a monopoly on the evaluation and medical treatment. until a couple years ago, norwegians would go to denmark to get hormones, because there are more private practitioner is denmark who have transgender experience. some norwegians also go to england, and i think danish people may go to germany for treatment.

the current witch hunt in denmark, where the national gid clinic does its best to keep their monopoly on everything to do with diagnosing and treatment, is nothing new. it's happened before, both in norway and denmark, that the netional clinic have accused private practitioners of malpractice, but it's only now that denmark is even trying to make laws that forbid private practitioners from treating transgender people.

sweden has a different situation. all transgender people have to go through the nhs, which means i'd most likely have to live in sweden to get treatment there. but feminists are very active in that country and support the whole lgbt community, and the rights to treatment are much better there. femme guys don't have to lie just to get in. the people are much better at making demands of their political leaders, and feminists speak of equal rights of all people, not only women. in sweden, they're also more focused on attacking the norms behind laws, rather than the law itself. if the norms are recognized as wrong, it automatically means that the law must be changed. but in denmark and norway, it seems that focus is mostly on the law itself, and changing the law without first making people ask themselves whether the norms behind are anything we want in a modern society, makes it much more difficult to change laws.

As somewhat of an egotistical person, I like to leave an impression on the types of people who find the A/Q/? attractive.  That said, I don't worry about passing as male or female or even androgynous...although I do lean towards the more "feminine" modes of expression in terms of clothes and makeup.  There is feminine males and feminine females...the really girly-girls so to speak...as well as softer "drogs" who look more feminine even though they are mostly gender neutral in their aesthetics and attitude.  "A dress does not a woman make."  I have even learned to make my voice as "gender neutral" as possible because it is the voice than can push someone's opinion over too far one way, which I don't care to do because it lets me go out in any style of clothes and not have to change a damn thing.  (I got to play with a pitch machine to do this.)  However, I found my "pre HRT" image to be "too masculine" so I decided I could benefit from the therapy to push me into the drog area, which it has.  The results have been pleasing.

I don't mind being called "he", "she", or even "it"...but what I do hate is having to be told I have to identify soley as ONE of the gender binary types as a static thing.  Call me any one, just don't limit me to one.  The fact that I initially "had" to say I was a "female trapped in a man's body" to get therapy was frustrating enough, but I swallowed my pride and did it.

So, what I guess I am getting at is that just because one goes through the trans process doesn't mean that they are "the wrong binary gender in the wrong binary body."  I have found that if women want to hit the drog zone they often have to cut their hair, whearas if the men want to hit the same zone they have to grow it out.  When someone desires a "balancing factor" to get their desired results into the Q/A/? zone, THAT factor is often trans-therapy.  THAT doesn't make them an MTF/FTM by default.  One word that has been tossed around in my presence is "trigender", which is the closest thing I can think of to fit the approach I take.

An afterthought: I do not have any problems with gender, though, as I do not try to impose my beliefs on others.  I do, however, desire that I not be forced into "gender" for myself.

I'm non-binary (neutrois) and want to transition to a neutral body. Unfortunately hormonally this doesn't work, since either estrogen or testosterone are required for bone health, and there are some effects of T which would make my dysphoria worse. However, I'd like to be infertile and appear androgynous (body shape, voice, mannerisms); the latter is what I'm currently working on.

Quote from: Taka on October 31, 2014, 06:19:47 AM
they're trying to make that law in denmark, suzi.
never take your freedom for granted...

Most important statement made on this entire thread!

Quote from: Ev on November 02, 2014, 09:21:25 AM
I don't mind being called "he", "she", or even "it"...but what I do hate is having to be told I have to identify soley as ONE of the gender binary types as a static thing.  Call me any one, just don't limit me to one.  The fact that I initially "had" to say I was a "female trapped in a man's body" to get therapy was frustrating enough, but I swallowed my pride and did it.

So, what I guess I am getting at is that just because one goes through the trans process doesn't mean that they are "the wrong binary gender in the wrong binary body."  I have found that if women want to hit the drog zone they often have to cut their hair, whearas if the men want to hit the same zone they have to grow it out.  When someone desires a "balancing factor" to get their desired results into the Q/A/? zone, THAT factor is often trans-therapy.

it's not pride i'd have to swallow, but a whole lot of very justified anger. if i choose to go the binary route to transition.
i absolutely hate the thought of going through a mental ward that has already driven several young people to suicide.

i have no idea what the drog zone is. but i found that i had to both cut and let my hair grow in order to feel comfortable at all. when none will yield, the compromise can get interesting. i'm just glad this hairdo is kind of popular these days, the only thing that makes me look weirder is the color.

never went through any trans therapy. i had a couple meeting with a sexologist who's also learned about gender identity and the diversity thereof. but what's the point when i already know who i am and what i want, and nobody seems able to give me that (hrt)...

Quote from: Taka on November 03, 2014, 03:29:58 AM
it's not pride i'd have to swallow, but a whole lot of very justified anger. if i choose to go the binary route to transition.
i absolutely hate the thought of going through a mental ward that has already driven several young people to suicide.

i have no idea what the drog zone is. but i found that i had to both cut and let my hair grow in order to feel comfortable at all. when none will yield, the compromise can get interesting. i'm just glad this hairdo is kind of popular these days, the only thing that makes me look weirder is the color.

never went through any trans therapy. i had a couple meeting with a sexologist who's also learned about gender identity and the diversity thereof. but what's the point when i already know who i am and what i want, and nobody seems able to give me that (hrt)...

If you're not suicidal, you have nothing to worry about.  If you are wise to their methods, you may be able to work around it.

"Drog zone" is a term I use to describe the androgynous zone of appearance/behavior, as it is oft considered "non-binary".

I have this philosophy: even if you have to lie to others, never lie to yourself.  I will lie to get what I want, and that is no lie.  If I have to tell them I am "MTF" to get the HRT, than so be it...and I did...but I knew what I wanted, and just had to play their game long enough.  When they asked if I was going to go "girly-girl and into men," I told them nah, "Tomboy lesbian."  It was enough to convince them I was really "MTF" without having to go to far into the "female" mannerisms and sexual preferences.

What I found funny is that after I got past the "gatekeepers" and actually into the doctors, they told me I didn't have to do that anymore at this point.  I could call myself androgynous/genderqueer/non-binary so forth so forth as long as I understood the effects of the HRT.  It then dawned on me that the ones holding the keys to the kingdom are still yet to get the message from the castle proper to start letting more people through.  I think in time it will be where honest people don't have to lie anymore.

As far as your situation is concerned, in all honesty I don't know what to say directly.  I guess what I meant to say is keep your eyes, ears, and mind open and look for opportunities.  I am one of those people who hits the books when dealing with people in these systems to better understand my rights and ways to negotiate...and since I am not familar with all the laws in your area and the people you deal with I couldn't really be of any assistance beyond my "arm yourself" suggestion.

there's so much wrong in my country that i don't even feel like explaining it again.
i've left bits and pieces even in this thread.

i'll do my best to find a way around the system, because going into it will end up with me telling them how terrible human beings they really are if they don't meet me with the respect i expect of medical professionals.

in the end, it seems i'll be working on changing the whole system, to accommodate for all trans people who need more help than just a little talk with some gender therapist. no idea how to do that, but i've at least started by giving an interview to some researchers. i think science will be the way to go, and maybe alliances with the feminists.

Quote from: Taka on November 03, 2014, 05:21:23 AM
there's so much wrong in my country that i don't even feel like explaining it again.
i've left bits and pieces even in this thread.

i'll do my best to find a way around the system, because going into it will end up with me telling them how terrible human beings they really are if they don't meet me with the respect i expect of medical professionals.

in the end, it seems i'll be working on changing the whole system, to accommodate for all trans people who need more help than just a little talk with some gender therapist. no idea how to do that, but i've at least started by giving an interview to some researchers. i think science will be the way to go, and maybe alliances with the feminists.

I'll admit, I have not read everything and that is why I can't say I know your plight exactly, nor do you need explain to me if you have already placed the details into the thread.  Having the right allies/friends/connections as well as knowledge can make all the difference, I agree.  I wish you the best.

For those of you lamenting the possibility of forcing yourself into a binary in order to receive surgery or hormones, I don't mean to be patronizing, but I hope you've exhausted your options. It seems like more and more U.S. surgeons are beginning to operate without the WPATH letter or for those that don't, there are understanding therapists with whom you can be honest and will help navigate the hoops with you. (And if there's no one local, I bet there are therapists out there who would sympathize with your predicament and take you on as a remote client through Skype...)  In my case, I have a therapist - across the world, on Skype - but I didn't have to ask for anything but her continuing emotional guidance because I went to Thailand for surgery, which required me to check boxes on a form (where I answered, honestly, that I take medication for anxiety and depression) but they otherwise never brought up my mental health at all. I was also honest with the surgeon in Thailand - I was the first non-binary patient he had ever knowingly seen - and we talked about what it meant to be "FTN" and why I didn't want nipples (also a first for him). And he listened, asked semi-appropriate questions ("So...you are not a man...you want no nipples but the chest to look like a woman's chest or a man's chest? You want a girlfriend or a boyfriend?") but never questioned my judgment and did everything I asked of him. I've personally talked to two other Westerners who went to Thailand for surgery, one in the U.K. and one in Germany, and both went there because they could not meet their country's rigid sets of requirements to qualify for surgery in their respective countries. Both came away a bit frazzled from dealing across cultures, but otherwise extremely satisfied with the results.

I know less about hormones because I'm not planning on taking them, but I do remember reading of at least one free- or low-cost clinic somewhere on the American west coast that was giving out T to anyone who requested it, no questions asked. (This was a few years ago, I don't know what's happened since then...) I also recently helped proofread an English translation of a Thai informational booklet about self-dosing your own female hormone regimen, where-there-is-no-doctor style, in poor countries where hormones are easy to access but difficult to regulate. I would imagine a step onto the streets of New York or San Francisco would lead to many of the same products...I'm sure there are many other ways to access hormones, some safer and more legal than others, as well, for those who are determined.

oh, surgery won't be difficult to get. there's always a way for that.
but hormones are something completely different, and it seems rather stupid to have to go outside the country to get something that i can even afford to pay for myself. it feels equally idiotic to have to travel a thousand miles even within my own country just to get hrt, but i'll consider that option before binary transition, and binary transition before leaving the country.
running away won't change the system, and those who come after me will meet the same problems as me unless i do what i can to change things.

Quote from: Taka on November 01, 2014, 07:14:17 AM
it's true about denmark. some idiots have decided it's a good idea to require those who want cross sex hormones to go through that one and only national gid clinic. if the law passes, they can revoke any doc's licence who gives hrt to a transgender person. they've already a few years ago started a major witch hunt where that good of the patient isn't even taken into consideration. the gid clinic has seriously long waitlists, it can take over a year to get in for evaluation after the initial interview, and they work on long past outdated harry benjamin principles. no nb people will ever get through that evaluation without lying, even binary trans people have to lie about their degree of dysphoria, and all kinds of ridiculous stuff. i'd automatically be rejected because i have a child, trans guys are required to hate their genitals to death and be utterly disgusted by the thought of carrying a child.
i'm not far from wishing all the misery life can possibly give a person, upon those idiots who are trying to drive young trans persons to suicide.

contact natkat for a link to a petition to get a right to treatment under informed consent. that would allow doctors to do what they know is best for the patient, rather than be forced to reject people in need. many trans people are in danger of losing access to life saving hrt because they've gotten that from private practitioners after the national gid clinic rejected them.

if the law is passed in denmark, there's a real danger it will be in norway too. what's already difficult will become completely impossible.

So in the case of Denmark, the government would be the "gatekeepers"? I'm really kind of speechless on that. It does kind of sadden me to think that a governmental entity can have that much control over someone and their lives. Actually it kind of sickens me really. :P I think it leads to a dangerous precedent in other areas of the gender or self identification realm. I just really wouldn't put anything past the power elite.

What gets me here in the states is insurance and coding.  My hormone letter specifically states I am diagnosed with a non binary scenario, that I am outside the benjamine standards, and that hormones are recommended.  But I am out of pocket for my e-cyp, my spiro is coded to heart stuff, my finesteride to bph (which I do have), and my therapist I pay hard cash to.  And he is worth it.  When the government stuff kicks in here in the states, dysphoria is not covered, and I will pay my endo out of pocket rather than be forced to a clinic.  Especially with my volatile endocrine system, it is a tough one.

So, where is  the SOC and recommendations if I can't get coverage for the hormones that I need to prevent me going way off the deep end?

Right now, the gate is closed for surgery, as I am non binary.... however, it is also because after 2 years of therapy the collateral damage would be horrific, and I am not ready for prime time as they say.  I don't sit when I pee.... not a girl in a male body.  I am an androgyne....physically that label would be quite accurate, lately it is socially too.... still fine tuning my comfort zones.

So, surgery, meds, etc.  An entire years income for surgery, plus getting the right folks to sign off, if I was not bound to the one I love.  Which I remain, and that is forever.

Its a mess, and I don't know what leverage we have out there.  It is grossly unfair, and the stuff of lawsuits, but then the suits will be the ones controlling our fate.

The whole thing thoroughly pisses me off.  I do, however, strongly believe that a lot of self knowledge and awareness is needed prior to making choices, as self deception always results in pain.

Nuts.  Yes, we need to change the systems, at least there is more awareness now of what is going on with us. 

One quarter of my income is needed to take care of my ongoing, lifelong transitional care.  A quarter.  Supporting a family of five, how is that fair to them?  I am working class, we are crushed under this stuff.  And they (my wife and kids) don't need to see me in the wards or hanging from a tree because of no hormones.... or on psyche meds because of a refusal to acknowledge the real way to treat dysphoria.  My wife almost left because she couldn't take seeing the agony I was going through in the first year of transition.  Now, however, all is well, but we are dirt poor, and my father is funding my meds, but he has stage 4 cancer and is in his mid 80's.  And I love him very deeply.

Mad fairy here.

Blessings

Satinjoy.

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 04, 2014, 06:13:33 AM
Right now, the gate is closed for surgery, as I am non binary.... however, it is also because after 2 years of therapy the collateral damage would be horrific, and I am not ready for prime time as they say.

If you were to decide that surgery is for you, I think you'd find it fairly easy to get that gate to open. I'm non-binary, and I was able to get surgery almost exactly a year after going full-time.

Reassuring, time will tell for me, long range.

Blessings

Satinjoy

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on October 30, 2014, 08:36:48 PM
So I ask all of you who are both-what are your experiences?  How do you deal with the prevailing view what one identity cancels the other out?

I dont know if I can speak for it,
I feel typical ftm, but at the other hand I dont want all surgeries and I dont want to be typical male in the sense that I nessesarry are going to look masculine and stuff.
its botheredsome even when there are expectations in the trans comunity what nonbinary will and binary will and even when we put these into boxes, its also the reason why I dont like people using gender neutral pronomes in my area, Not because I despite them but because they at my current area put me into a box I dont want to be put in.

I dont think there is much to do other than education and giving space, I will try to start up a special meeting for non-binary as a first step. The binary had got alot of space so far, yet the non-binary are the most opressed specially here in denmark where as taka say, there chance for transition will be equal zero, if the new guide(law) will pass by. even before that non-binary has less space and are viewed as "less-good role models" than a binary one who pass.

I find it problematic but its not only for transgenders its like this, in the general glbt there are a hiracy of those who are most accepted and spoken of and those which we never heard or talk about.

NatKat,
     I appreciate your coming here and expressing your thoughts on this. Like Taka said, we are so fortunate here with our LGBT freedoms in the US and Great Britain so far, but we shouldn't ever take it for granted as it could change. I know you are an activist and are fighting an uphill battle concerning trans issues in Denmark where NB are on the bottom of the heap, we hope you and your friends will prevail!