Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have been wanting to transition for awhile. I've not started any hormones or anything. The picture below is just how i look naturally. I just don't know if i would transition well or if i would still look like a guy. I know its hard to say because no one can say what hormones will do exactly. But some feedback and insight from people going through it already will definitely help. Thanks!!!(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1370.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag265%2Fjoeymtf92%2FIMG_2335_zps3ca98401.jpg&hash=abeb128b9223c64d01ab9addb0ac50a110ac220c) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1370.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag265%2Fjoeymtf92%2FFullSizeRender_zps66ff87fd.jpg&hash=6b83135ec5333dfb772806127ad973da933e4ed5) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1370.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag265%2Fjoeymtf92%2FIMG_2902_zps8c9b4c33.jpg&hash=4845ff3a15a0315e520fb35c81ba5b4bafd8fc74)

Like you said its hard to say what hormones will do for sure. But if we are voting I think you would do fine. looking at you and imagining what you might look like dressed as a women clean shaven, make up etc.. I personally don't think you would have a problem.

Hey Joey

Welcome to Susan's  :)  Great to have you here - looking forward to seeing you around the forum.

Unfortunately transition is a very personal thing, works great for some and is a struggle for others. Generally you don't know until you know. Passing is not just about looks but a whole range of other factors including presentation, confidence and how much you believe in yourself. You say you haven't started hormones, have you been to see a gender counsellor? They will hopefully help you to lay look into how you want to proceed, the steps to take and how to go about it. In many ways that is where you should be starting rather than, at the moment, being worried about pass ability. From the photos you have posted though I don't see why you couldn't pass.

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Cheers

Grace

You have a better starting point than most in my opinion.

I'll be blunt: IMO you have a 95%+ chance of not only passing but being hot. If I read your name correctly you're only 22, you don't have ANYTHING to worry about if so. You look like you have great base features as well.

I'm not a ->-bleeped-<- because I simply expect the same candid opinions from others in return, so If I thought you were completely screwed I simply wouldn't post. As long as you put in a respectable effort you'll be fine. Look up sona avedian if you want to see a great example of the drastic changes possible.

I agree with ErinS! I think you're already very pretty. You even have a round, non-receded female hairline, which is something late-transitioners don't usually have. Grow your hair out and remove the facial hair and your face alone will definitely pass. :)

I totally agree with Erin and runaway.  You have a great hair line now.  You also have beautiful feminine facial features, with that awesome jaw line and narrow chin.

And from the last picture you've definitely got the right hight and the legs to be able to wear heels and pass wonderfully.

So definitely follow runaway's advice and start by growing your hair out and then start beard removal.

I also think you have a great starting point. And you're young so I have no doubt you'll be really a pretty girl! :3

Totally agree, you have a fantastic starting point from which to transition. In saying that though, even the youngest of person with the best of features can make terrible mistakes by not thinking things through and most importantly plan plan plan!

As Grace suggested, a Gender Therapist is a great starting point, and in most country's a nesesary step in transition.

But don't worry about your physical looks, you have the potential to do just fine. Worry more about the things we can't see, these are things that can make it all a painful terrible mess if not managed correctly.

Gee, that last bit sounded quite morbid, oops, Bree needs some sleep I think  :)

Hugs,
Bree

Quote from: Joeymtf92 on November 06, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
I have been wanting to transition for awhile. I've not started any hormones or anything. The picture below is just how i look naturally. I just don't know if i would transition well or if i would still look like a guy. I know its hard to say because no one can say what hormones will do exactly. But some feedback and insight from people going through it already will definitely help. Thanks!!!

Transition isn't about looking good. It's about being your authentic self. If you are truly meant to live as a woman, your looks are immaterial.

I know many non-passing trans women who transitioned, very, very well, and are thrilled with their transitions.

There are as many things transition is about as there are people who transition. I know for me looks are not immaterial, if they are for you, more power to you.

That said I think you can look decent. Most pretty people are good looking whatever gender they are and you are the pretty boy type it seems to me :P

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 07, 2014, 07:59:38 AM
Transition isn't about looking good. It's about being your authentic self. If you are truly meant to live as a woman, your looks are immaterial.

I know many non-passing trans women who transitioned, very, very well, and are thrilled with their transitions.

Normally I would agree with you Suzi, however what 22 year old is not going to be concerned with their looks? I would love to say I couldn't care less what I look like and so long as I have the right attitude I'll be fine, however as someone born in the wrong body, I'm already at a disadvantage with my looks. I want to be the best I can in mind, body and soul.

But I do agree that being yourself is important, and adds to the total package of who we are. Authenticity and all ..

I'm pretty sure with the proper mannerisms, make-over and outfit, you could probably pass right now. And turn quite a few heads too.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 07, 2014, 07:59:38 AM
Transition isn't about looking good. It's about being your authentic self. If you are truly meant to live as a woman, your looks are immaterial.

I know many non-passing trans women who transitioned, very, very well, and are thrilled with their transitions.

Not trying to argue, but the reason I am transitioning is so I look like the woman I am, and it's not so much about passing, is it is about being able to look in the mirror and not hate myself. I understand that being a non-passable trans woman has it's joys and is a fine life to live but, for me, and maybe others, passing (can someone come up with a better word, thanks) bestows upon one's self not only the baility to look in the mirror but also having people treat you like a woman.

But that's a whole other can of worms. The only person who calls me smart now is my mom. Before transition, it's was always "wow, you're so smart." Now it's "You're a know-it-all" and that's a good day. Usually it's haveing any opinion summarily dismissed. However, as unhealthy as that is, it does help me achive my goal: to be recognkized and treated like a woman. People always say transtion won't change the "essenital you...but it does, a lot." Because simply looking completely female will re-socialize you.

To the OP: I'm really smart, (just kidding) so you should heed my words. You will pass wonderfullly as your face is round like mine and you're eight or so years younger. You have delicate features, pretty eyes and I think you have no worries other than within a year you won't pass as a man. I don't. So, yeah.

Hrt may not change the face much at all, not to mention that the face change is one of the longest to happen. I see so many here with unrealistic expectations of hrt, which is worrisome. So take what everyone is saying here with a grain salt as the saying goes because until you actually start you won't know for sure as to how well your body will respond to estrogen. That being said you do have some lovely features as a base like I did and I started around 21.

Quote from: Ms Grace on November 06, 2014, 11:25:28 PM
Hey Joey

Unfortunately transition is a very personal thing, works great for some and is a struggle for others. Generally you don't know until you know. Passing is not just about looks but a whole range of other factors including presentation, confidence and how much you believe in yourself. You say you haven't started hormones, have you been to see a gender counsellor? They will hopefully help you to lay look into how you want to proceed, the steps to take and how to go about it. In many ways that is where you should be starting rather than, at the moment, being worried about pass ability. From the photos you have posted though I don't see why you couldn't pass.

Cheers

Grace

I have been going to a gender therapist for a few months now. I've done a little modeling as a male. That's the job i want for my future, that's why I worry about transitioning. Some may think I shouldn't worry about looks and more about feeling myself. But for me it's both due to the career I want.

As for everyone else who has said i would pass really well, thank you so much <3

Well, if you want to do female modeling I'm curious what your figure is like? That top is super cute but I can't really tell anything about your figure from it. In all seriousness though the modelling industry is brutal and I wouldn't want to get too hung about its insane requirements to the point of not transitioning. There are definitely some very pretty transgender girls doing some modelling out there!

Hey Joey

Your physical material is more than good enough, so no need to add to what others have said.

They key things are your expectations.  In changing gender you gain and you lose, and it's really important to understand which of these are in your control, or not.

Fundamentally you gain by becoming a woman.  For me, finally I feel comfortable in my skin.  There is no blueprint for being a woman, so don't go chasing after ideal shapes, sizes or presentation.  Becoming a woman for many of us it requires hard work and dedication.  Hair removal and voice training are two areas which require time and effort.  And money. 

What could you lose?  Well, for a time you'll be in transition.  It's a weird space, and confuses people in a public setting - you need to be a bit thick skinned for a while.  But, depending on where you live, you could and should use it to your advantage - many people are attracted to androgynous types, for example.    You do lose in terms of personal security - you simply can't swagger through certain parts of your city without feeling a little insecure, and for me it is sometimes a bit creepy when taxi drivers hit on me late at night.  Also, depending on the type of job you're in, you may lose power and influence - women have to prove themselves in a way which men do not.    You could also lose time:  people judge how women look, so hair and makeup take time.  I work in a corporate setting and need to look good.  Getting ready in the morning takes an hour.

You're nice looking as a male, and the reason I'm going on about the negatives is so that you think carefully about your decision.  HRT is good and useful, but it's just one part of the equation and won't of itself turn you into a pretty girl.  But for most of us on this site, we're here because we got to a point of knowing that we needed to do this despite the negatives.  I have no regrets. Not one! :D

Hugs
Julia

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 08, 2014, 03:24:27 AM
Hey Joey

Your physical material is more than good enough, so no need to add to what others have said.

They key things are your expectations.  In changing gender you gain and you lose, and it's really important to understand which of these are in your control, or not.

Fundamentally you gain by becoming a woman.  For me, finally I feel comfortable in my skin.  There is no blueprint for being a woman, so don't go chasing after ideal shapes, sizes or presentation.  Becoming a woman for many of us it requires hard work and dedication.  Hair removal and voice training are two areas which require time and effort.  And money. 

What could you lose?  Well, for a time you'll be in transition.  It's a weird space, and confuses people in a public setting - you need to be a bit thick skinned for a while.  But, depending on where you live, you could and should use it to your advantage - many people are attracted to androgynous types, for example.    You do lose in terms of personal security - you simply can't swagger through certain parts of your city without feeling a little insecure, and for me it is sometimes a bit creepy when taxi drivers hit on me late at night.  Also, depending on the type of job you're in, you may lose power and influence - women have to prove themselves in a way which men do not.    You could also lose time:  people judge how women look, so hair and makeup take time.  I work in a corporate setting and need to look good.  Getting ready in the morning takes an hour.

You're nice looking as a male, and the reason I'm going on about the negatives is so that you think carefully about your decision.  HRT is good and useful, but it's just one part of the equation and won't of itself turn you into a pretty girl.  But for most of us on this site, we're here because we got to a point of knowing that we needed to do this despite the negatives.  I have no regrets. Not one! :D

Hugs
Julia

Oh that middle ground, Eeek, I just want it to end! At the moment Im in the middle phase, I get looked at a lot, in fact I think they stare. It's basically a femme gay look, and it stands out. But hey, don't mind at all, it's just part of the journey.

But just be aware of what your gaining, and all the things  your losing. For me, it's a no brainer, I could have gone on for the rest of me life wandering around without a clue, or I could b honest with myself. I chose the latter and haven't looked back.

Quote from: Joeymtf92 on November 06, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
I have been wanting to transition for awhile. I've not started any hormones or anything. The picture below is just how i look naturally. I just don't know if i would transition well or if i would still look like a guy. I know its hard to say because no one can say what hormones will do exactly. But some feedback and insight from people going through it already will definitely help. Thanks!!!
IMG...

I really don't think transition is based on what one looks like unless it's for business decision. I do think you look great and would post transition too.

Quote from: Joeymtf92 on November 06, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
I have been wanting to transition for awhile. I've not started any hormones or anything. The picture below is just how i look naturally. I just don't know if i would transition well or if i would still look like a guy. I know its hard to say because no one can say what hormones will do exactly. But some feedback and insight from people going through it already will definitely help. Thanks!!!(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1370.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag265%2Fjoeymtf92%2FIMG_2335_zps3ca98401.jpg&hash=abeb128b9223c64d01ab9addb0ac50a110ac220c) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1370.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag265%2Fjoeymtf92%2FFullSizeRender_zps66ff87fd.jpg&hash=6b83135ec5333dfb772806127ad973da933e4ed5) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1370.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag265%2Fjoeymtf92%2FIMG_2902_zps8c9b4c33.jpg&hash=4845ff3a15a0315e520fb35c81ba5b4bafd8fc74)

I think you have a decent chance at passing :) You make a really cute boy though honestly! I know that comment wasn't important, but just letting you know hahah

Quote from: Joeymtf92 on November 07, 2014, 10:01:13 PM
I have been going to a gender therapist for a few months now. I've done a little modeling as a male. That's the job i want for my future, that's why I worry about transitioning. Some may think I shouldn't worry about looks and more about feeling myself. But for me it's both due to the career I want.

If having a career as a model is so important for you, and you feel enough comfortable to stay a man because of that... than, no, I don't think you should transition. At least not until the transition becomes the absolute must for you, as for everyone else, the only option to stay alive. Be careful to not transition for the wrong reason. I hope you have a good and experienced gender therapist, who will help you make the right decision.

Transition has never reached those rarefied heights of "so important I'd rather die than not get it" but it sure as hell makes me feel better and I don't regret my decision. Living in general is pretty important to me. My point is that transitioning isn't necessarily a mistake just because you aren't suicidal.

To ask strangers if it would be "worth it" to transition based on your physical appearance is pretty absurd. Transitioning is about alleviating gender dysphoria in order to be who you really are instead of parading around society as some fake persona.

I didn't really get the impression that's what Joey is trying to do... just really unsure of what they truly want. Before I started on HRT I had a mountain of worries. I still do worry about how far it will go but it's more like every change in the direction towards female is good. The worry is not getting enough of those changes!

Quote from: Natalie on November 08, 2014, 11:36:20 AM
To ask strangers if it would be "worth it" to transition based on your physical appearance is pretty absurd. Transitioning is about alleviating gender dysphoria in order to be who you really are instead of parading around society as some fake persona.

I must concur, if you believe the worth of transitioning is based on your outward appearance only then maybe you should sit down and think about it a bit more.

However I am not here to shot down your ideals so I will say you have a chance as most 22 year old mtf do, but keep your expectations realistic as most don't.

Transition is not about looks.  Sure, it is nice to look good, but you should transition if it makes you a better version of yourself.  Some would say to transition if it is a life or death matter, but I would disagree.  Transition if it makes you a better person.  As far what hormones will do to you, only time has the answer to that.  Sometimes hormones can make the world a difference.  That was true in my case.  Just remember that there is no qualifications to be transsexual.  Just because you might not necessarily feel dysphoria on an extreme level does not mean you should write off transition.  You do not necessarily have to feel fake with your male body.  I did not feel that way and I still started transition.  It is one of the best choices that I made

Quote from: Natalie on November 08, 2014, 11:36:20 AM
To ask strangers if it would be "worth it" to transition based on your physical appearance is pretty absurd. Transitioning is about alleviating gender dysphoria in order to be who you really are instead of parading around society as some fake persona.

I'm not sure I would say it's absurd to ask another's opinion, as we do it everyday without even realising. I think the OP maybe could have clarified the question for us all, as in essence what's being asked here, I think, is ..

"If I was to transition to female, do you think based on my current presentation, I could successfully present as female"

Joey, the girls are right, there's a lot more to transition than looks. Personally, I tried to do everything but transition. It's not easy, you'll have some positive times, but you'll have many not so positive ones.

Build your support network, Gender Therapist as number 1. If you don't suffer gender dysphoria, aka, being a boy doesn't piss you off too much, then great. It will safe you a lot of time, money and psychological effort. But if you are, go for it, what will be will be. You can be as good a person as you want to be. And that's not about presentation, it's what's inside. Get that right, and we glow on the outside.

Good luck girlfriend, what ever you choose, you'll be fine

Hugs,
Bree

Quote from: Joeymtf92 on November 07, 2014, 10:01:13 PM
I have been going to a gender therapist for a few months now. I've done a little modeling as a male. That's the job i want for my future, that's why I worry about transitioning. Some may think I shouldn't worry about looks and more about feeling myself. But for me it's both due to the career I want.

As for everyone else who has said i would pass really well, thank you so much <3

if thats the case i can tell you that androgynous looking girls is more appreciated in fashion than androgynous looking boys  :-*

Quote from: BreezyB on November 09, 2014, 12:02:33 AM
I'm not sure I would say it's absurd to ask another's opinion, as we do it everyday without even realising. I think the OP maybe could have clarified the question for us all, as in essence what's being asked here, I think, is .."If I was to transition to female, do you think based on my current presentation, I could successfully present as female"...

To even say "present" as female is denying what someone claims they, in fact, are. I don't need to present female because "I am a female" so it does not matter if I am sitting around my pajamas looking all cracked out or I am looking hot and sexy. So, no, not everyone does that everyday and the simple fact that I don't negates that assumption, however, to transition based solely on how what one subjectively thinks they will look is absurd because it's has nothing do to with whether or not someone ends up pretty to everyone else. It's about internal completeness and alleviating gender dysphoria. No gender dysphoria? Then maybe he is a true ->-bleeped-<- or some other thing.

I feel as if this thread is getting a little out of hand. I simply was asking a question and most don't know anything about me or what I have personally gone through. I don't have many people to talk to about transitioning, my family doesn't support it and I've not gotten to the part where i tell my friends about it yet. So for me to just as a question about how you all would think i look and to be told it's absurd to worry about those things, makes me feel put down. You all have to think about how you were and all the questions before you started HRT. I'm not in this just for the looks, it is part of it as it is for everyone else on here. So just people be open minded about some of the questions I may ask. This is the only place i have to look for answers, my therapist is only one person, it's nice to get opinions from others. Thanks..

Yea don't worry about all these people saying looks don't matter and are not important cause they are wrong.

If they think looks don't matter then why are they transitioning. The whole point of which is to change your external appearance. You do not go on HRT to change how you act or feel or express yourself about your gender, you go on HRT to change yourself physically. You practice your voice, clothes learn makeup etc to change your external appearance and expression. Cause you wanna look like a woman (when MTF), just like you asked if you possibly could. It is a perfectly standard question.

So seriously forget these guys saying this junk.

I for one don't think your concerns are invalid or crazy. Every group has "be exactly like me or get out" sorts of people.

Quote from: Joeymtf92 on November 09, 2014, 08:54:48 AM
I feel as if this thread is getting a little out of hand. I simply was asking a question and most don't know anything about me or what I have personally gone through. I don't have many people to talk to about transitioning, my family doesn't support it and I've not gotten to the part where i tell my friends about it yet. So for me to just as a question about how you all would think i look and to be told it's absurd to worry about those things, makes me feel put down. You all have to think about how you were and all the questions before you started HRT. I'm not in this just for the looks, it is part of it as it is for everyone else on here. So just people be open minded about some of the questions I may ask. This is the only place i have to look for answers, my therapist is only one person, it's nice to get opinions from others. Thanks..

Hi Joey - finally you're taking control of your thread.  Good! 

My experience on Susan's is that any threads about physical appearance are bombarded by replies, and they can go off-theme quite quickly.

You actually asked two mixed questions at the start of your post - will you have a successful transition, and will you still look like a guy.  Both are actually quite hard to answer, since as you rightfully point out, we don't know anything about you.

Like any community, ours here has people from very very diverse viewpoints and experiences, so going forward, can I suggest that you consider your questions more carefully so that you maximise the likelihood that the responses will be relevant, and manage the direction of your thread.  Even then, there are times when I am absolutely baffled by some responses I receive, genuine as they are.  In such cases, take the topic offline with someone who seems to understand what you're getting at.

Good luck
Julia

Quote from: Seras on November 09, 2014, 10:09:01 AM
Yea don't worry about all these people saying looks don't matter and are not important cause they are wrong.

Subjectively...

Quote from: Seras on November 09, 2014, 10:09:01 AM
If they think looks don't matter then why are they transitioning. The whole point of which is to change your external appearance.

The whole point is to force one's body to coincide with their gender identity irrespective of their "attractiveness" or "physical appeal." Beauty and attractiveness is completely and absolutely relative so what any one person or group of people thinks is insignificant. The problem in the transgender community, based on research thus far, is that way too many transgender women become fixated on their presentation to society, but in the vast majority of those cases they do so out of fear of negative sanctions so they over-feminize themselves to one extreme of the spectrum and try to incorporate everything they think signifies femininity. They end up basing everything on their ability to "pass" in society "as a woman" and the only said part here is that they never truly see themselves as a women because they are too busy trying to "look like" a woman instead of simply being a woman. Women come in all different shapes, sizes, races, ethnicities, disabilities, and physical attractiveness.

Quote from: Seras on November 09, 2014, 10:09:01 AM
You do not go on HRT to change how you act or feel or express yourself about your gender, you go on HRT to change yourself physically.

Your own anecdotal experiences are only valid to "you" thus, this statement is entirely based on your subjectivity. You are trying to claim what is true for you must be true for everyone else and that is a defect in reasoning, a cognitive distortion thus completely invalid. Fact is, the presence, or lack of, estrogen, progesterone, and the levels of androgens "DO" affect how a  person feels and how they express themselves. Activating estrogen receptors in the brain and ceasing to use androgen receptors (or blocking them) has cognitive affects both immediately and longitudinally that has been empirically validated in countless observable incidences. There is a host of credible medical journals available to the public that reiterate on this fact over and over again thus, your credulous perception here is not only unhelpful, it's spreading misinformation to someone that is just starting out on their own transition.

Quote from: Seras on November 09, 2014, 10:09:01 AMYou practice your voice, clothes learn makeup etc to change your external appearance and expression. Cause you wanna look like a woman (when MTF), just like you asked if you possibly could. It is a perfectly standard question. So seriously forget these guys saying this junk.

I find it perplexing that you would tell any woman that they are not actually a woman and to practice "looking like a woman" because that is allegedly the whole "goal" here. Who is saying junk again? Furthermore, I am not a "guy" so don't include me in your improper use of English syntax by making reference to me with incorrect English pronouns.  The very least you can do is say, "you girls" since nobody that you are addressing in your statement that responded to this topic is a male. One says "you girls" or "you ladies" to correctly refer to a group of females colloquially. You can even be gender neutral and say "you people" or "you all."

First sorry Joey for the off topic, but I will link it via pastebin so anyone who wishes to avoid this is not forced to read it.

For anyone who does not bother looking it is enough for me to say well done for intentional misinterpretation, pedantry and logical fallacy there. Tis a real smorgasbord of sophistry.

~~~
http://pastebin.com/JuZCxTeB
~~~

Like if you want I can nitpick all day and argue semantics and meaning, we can have a nice little battle of the sophists if that is what you want. Would be nicer to have something more meaningful to discuss of course but whatever, should probably put it in another topic though or in private  :)