Susan's Place Transgender Resources

For nonbinary people who identify with specific gender, how much does it bother you to be misgendered? Does it matter what they refer to you as? I have situations where I am in the same place one person calls me by male pronouns while another says the opposite. It's awkard or funny but all I ask is NOT to be questioned and let them say whatever they want.

It is HIGHLY dysphoric to both me and my female alter if either of us is misgendered. Baggage from childhood trauma makes it vital to the Self that regardless which of us is fronting for the System that we are seen as authentic. The alter who is fronting at any time being recognized as their gender plays a huge part in meeting that need. That said, my female alter and me are both extremely fortunate that it is extremely rare for either of us is to be taken as the wrong gender.

While I am andro trending and in many ways quite gender fluid, nuance while important to me, is not always identified by others.  If someone who knows me well, genders me correctly, it is hugely affirming.  OTH when they get it wrong, I cut them some slack as I know that I am difficult to read.  Also being m2me I always feel fine with being gendered female, as I feel that they are seeing or experiencing more than my masculine aspect.

Safe travels

Aisla

Been living happily full-time as a woman for over year, but it still feels strange when someone calls me "she". OTOH, I hate being called "he", so right now I'm not entirely comfortable being gender either way.

However, given that I'm living as a woman, I take it as an affront if someone deliberately genders me as anything but female.

It amuzes me, and I don't read as female socially.  But I kind of like it when the boss gets totally confused on what pronoun to use.  Actually, I love it.

In here, however, never call me he, him, please.  Sh'e, h'er, or she her is ok too.  The first set is accurate to me, and seems to be unique.

They is fine.

But if I was out in full transition mode with the face shaved, it had darn better be the same as in here.  Even though in full presentation I would prefer being known as a transsexual or transgendered person in that social context.

I probably shouldn't respond..?
I don't feel social dysphoria, and the physical dysphoria I feel between my gender differences and my body doesn't seem much to do with others, or they're words, pronouns or terms.

I live a pretty sheltered life I guess, I only am around people I know quite well in real life, and everyone on my social pages online I know also, I seldom accept strangers into my life unless I absolutely have to. I did have a rough few days after I came out to everyone, but I realize now that was my fault for my excessive expectations..

All in all, I really love almost all the people in my life, and nothing they say really could bother me.. I laugh with them mostly, its not a factor in our relationships at all.?

i never try to present as anything other than female. means i don't bind. i'm always read as a female, and female pronouns are used.
the pronouns aren't bad, i only see them as functional words.
but as soon as people start calling me woman or female, it makes me feel really awkward. because i'm none of that, no matter what i look like. and i really just want to tell people that they're wrong.
only problem is, i don't have a widely recognized gender id, so people aren't likely to understand any of it.

online, i have a male identity who doesn't mind occasional misgendering. people often assume things and it's easy to get it wrong. most never think he's a girl though. just kind of gay, which is half right. there has been a case of deliberate misgendering, but that one learned that such a thing is unwise to do in a place where there aren't enough haters.

there are parts of me that don't identify much with gender, and it seems they prefer 'it' for pronouns. 'they' might be possible for refering to all of me, but 'he' is the prefered online pronoun.
seems i can only be properly misgendered online, but it would only bother me around here. any other places, i'm just a guy, this is the only place where i'm more than that. except offline, but that's a weird place for me.

There are definitely days when it sticks in my craw more than others, For me, "they" is ideal. "He" will give me a little thrill, just because it's so novel and rare and imo, oh so much better than "she." But I know what I look like, and how people perceive me, and so I try to be relaxed about it.

My mom's first language isn't English, and she really struggles with pronouns (regardless of whether the person is cis or trans). "They" is especially tricky for her. A bummer, if I'm honest.

I look male, so I can hardly expect people to call me 'she', no matter how much I wished that they would.

Quote from: Servalan on November 08, 2014, 08:03:34 PM
I look male, so I can hardly expect people to call me 'she', no matter how much I wished that they would.

It;'s funny, I look very male also, but one good friend always refers to me as she.. She's MtF and it makes me smile so much, I actually really adore it..

Quote from: Mark3 on November 08, 2014, 08:11:10 PM


It;'s funny, I look very male also, but one good friend always refers to me as she.. She's MtF and it makes me smile so much, I actually really adore it..

I have a young friend and she is a psych with whom I have shared a lot.  She knows when I am in M, F or andro mode and just seems to instinctively pick the right pronoun.  My heart sings when this happens.

OTH my wife is always more interested in my hormone levels, whether I am 'ok' and in my view is highly unlikely to encourage or to recognise the female aspect.

Safe travels

Aisla

Aisla

I will never get a she from my wife.  With her I don't care either, she sees what she must to stay.  That's fine.

Yeah Taka, it's why I call myself notmale or notfemale.  Because I'm not.  I am a transsexual person.

Well let's see, to my wife I am he and him, to my kids I am dad, to my granddaughter I am grandpa, to outsiders I am him, she, her, it, sir, ma'am, and whatever else they decide on. To the trans community I am she and her. Personally I find it all quite humorous and respond well to whatever anyone wishes to call me as long as it isn't something insulting. Long ago when I met Dr. Bowers she confided in me that her kids still call her dad and it was ok because that is their natural frame of reference. I agree with that concept fully, there's no sense in making others uncomfortable by demanding to be addressed in a certain way. I'm all for peaceful continuity over anything else.

my daughter calling me mom is just natural.
but when people start talking about me as if i were her mother, it weirds me out.
i'm just unable to live up to that kind of ideal.
would be much better if they compared me to a typical single dad.
i'm a complete failure as a mother, i don't know how to be one.
but i still believe a can be a good parent. at least that's what i keep trying to do every day.

Quote from: Taka on November 09, 2014, 12:08:02 PM
i'm a complete failure as a mother, i don't know how to be one.
but i still believe a can be a good parent. at least that's what i keep trying to do every day.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but: how is being a "good parent" different from being a "good mother"?

I don't consider myself my kids' "mother" because gender, but I think I've always done more of what people expect a mother to do (nurturing, cuddling, feeding, etc.)  for my children than my ex is capable of.

(Except for breast feeding.  Never done that for my kids :) )

Quote from: Taka on November 09, 2014, 12:08:02 PM
my daughter calling me mom is just natural.
i'm a complete failure as a mother, i don't know how to be one.
but i still believe a can be a good parent. at least that's what i keep trying to do every day.

Count me with Asche on this one Taka, you are beating yourself up needlessly. My own mother was raised as a princess and was taught absolutely no mothering skills whatsoever she was 26 when she married my father who was 40 and had been in the merchant marine all his life with men. Neither of them had any parenting skills and were harshly criticized by others because of it. My dad was old school and beat the crap out of me with a hardwood stick when I misbehaved, my mom was an idiot with money and couldn't even balance her checkbook with the money allotted to her when my dad was at sea. We survived on a lot of casseroles, spam and other delights that some folks wouldn't eat these days. But I loved them dearly because they were my parents and in my book they did the best they could though what they knew about being good parents was nothing initially. I wouldn't trade them in on any other parents, they loved me and did what they were able with what they had.

i only said i'm a failure as a mother... not that i fail as a parent.
there is something that mothers seems to feel, very naturally, a typical behavior that they have.
it's just the same as girliness or just a female gender identity.
something mysterious to me, that i just notice i lack.

i've also noticed society is very sexist when it comes to parenting.
mothers and fathers are treated very differently, and people have completely different expectations of them.
i've met society as someone who others think is a "mother", and that has never been easy.
i was left with feelings of guilt, but also resentment when i started to understand i was only treated this way because i'm a woman.
a single wouldn't meet any of the same expectations.
i could probably be a great father, but never a good mother.
but i prefer just being an ok parent. my daughter will be my judge on this one, whether or not i'm good enough is something only she can tell.

Quote from: Taka on November 10, 2014, 01:46:01 PM
i only said i'm a failure as a mother... not that i fail as a parent.
there is something that mothers seems to feel, very naturally, a typical behavior that they have.
it's just the same as girliness or just a female gender identity.
something mysterious to me, that i just notice i lack.

i've also noticed society is very sexist when it comes to parenting.
mothers and fathers are treated very differently, and people have completely different expectations of them.
i've met society as someone who others think is a "mother", and that has never been easy.
i was left with feelings of guilt, but also resentment when i started to understand i was only treated this way because i'm a woman.
a single wouldn't meet any of the same expectations.
i could probably be a great father, but never a good mother.
but i prefer just being an ok parent. my daughter will be my judge on this one, whether or not i'm good enough is something only she can tell.

I get that, some people just don't come equipped with that (happy little homemaker, nesting, innate nurturing) thing that others have, which is infinitely more common lacking in genetic males than in females, but it happens and is most likely the edge of your more masculine side in evidence. I was an awful excuse of a parent with my own kids, it was a love-hate relationship, I'm getting a reprieve on that with my granddaughter.

even my mother, who is an awful parent, seems to have more motherly feelings than i do.
i just have no idea how to feel that way about my daughter.
i kind of remind me of my father, and my older brothers.
my grandma seems to have had problems finding those motherly feelings inside her though.
maybe it's her i got it from.

i'm still good at seeing my daughter's emotional needs.
that doesn't mean i can feel that nurturing feeling inside me,
but it makes it easier to at least not abuse or neglect her to badly.
i'm capable of hugging her tight just because i know she needs it, even if i don't feel that instinctive need to hug.

It used to bother me more. Certain LGBT people that misgender seem to bother me more. People that know my gender that misgender on purpose makes me really mad.

I don't get as mad, like I did many years ago.

I personally, professionally, and as a viewpoint of the site would love to know how NB's wish to be addressed so that no slights are made.

It is something that can cause confusion and pain which is not meant by anyone.

Quote from: Cindy on December 05, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
I personally, professionally, and as a viewpoint of the site would love to know how NB's wish to be addressed so that no slights are made.

It is something that can cause confusion and pain which is not meant by anyone.

Cindy, I can only speak for myself. I do not require any recognition that I'm non-binary in the way I'm addressed. I am happy to be treated the way I present (binary female).

The problems occur when someone tries to "make me binary" or tell me that the source of whatever problem I'm dealing with has to do with the fact that I won't see myself as a binary woman.

That happened a few days ago and I'm still trying to sort out my feelings.

Cindy,
I for one cannot imagine that you would every intentionally slight anyone.  Suzi's point that addressing as to presentation works in person (mostly) but on forums it is sometimes hard to know.  I default to they and their when in doubt, or avoid pronouns altogether.  Names are nice and always work. :) 

I do think that intent is the primary driver.  Here on this forum plural pronouns are prudent, but even here, If you intend no disrespect no offence will be taken.  If you've been asked to address someone in definitive manner and that is ignored a negative reaction may be expected.  It also has to do with how well you know someone.  Satinjoy will be she to me when talking one on one and they in public.  Ativan is always gender neutral.  Aisla is the loveliest shape shifter I know and so I take environmental cues and default to neutral.  Probably not helpful but nobody said this would be clear - Nonbinary is nothing if not ambiguous.  I'm she by the way or she with a little spice. ;)

The larger point that Suzi makes is more important and has to do with validation.  We have the right to be acknowledged as ambiguously gendered.  When it is demanded by anyone that we choose one or the other hackles will rise.  That is what happened last month.  Particularly in a non-binary space, to insist that anyone conform to a binary paradigm will elicit anger at the disrespect.  Concern about the consequences notwithstanding, If I am told I must be a binary woman or that I am wrong in my personal identification, I will reject everything you have to say even if you mean well and are honestly concerned for my well being.  Just don't go there, and If you do back down quickly when I respond aggressively.

Peace,
Julie

Flushed me out of my treehouse.

There is a thread that asks what pronoun we prefer to be used for ourselves.

Another possibility is to list it in the profile near the avatar.

Deliberate use of a pronoun to invalidate or hurt, obvously just plain foolishness, intolerable.

Accidental, well, thats typical isnt it.   Because it is individual.  They and them are the polite way usually to refer to us, to be politically correct if you do not know.

That pronoun thread should be stickied on this forum in this section.

It could potentially help others.

Most people wont read it, but it gives us an opportunity to express ourselves.

Like mine.  Sh'e, h'er.  Very unique.

We do not limit ourselves in our choices.  Its not in our nature to do so, generally, its not in mine.

I was once asked, in 15 seconds, what is a nonbinary?

To me, it is anyone that includes parts of themselves that are seen as their birth gender, and parts that are not their birth gender, and embrace these parts, internalize it and integrate it into the core of their lives.  Sometimes expressing it, sometimes hiding it, but never appologizing for it, and since this self knowledge came at a horrifying cost to many of us, when it is called rationalization or inauthentic or temporary, as a group, we get really upset.

And I will say it again.  Binaries are authentic and have the absolute and total right to be authentic binaries, that is their truth.
Nonbinaries are authentic and have the absolute and total right to be authentic nonbinaries, that is their truth.

So what the heck is the big deal with figuring that out.  The rejection of that simple statement destroyed an entire section of the forum.

Just dumb.  Total foolishness, it should never have come to that, to the loss of so much knowledge.

That knowledge, before I pop off forum again as I do now, that knowledge is in the thousands of wise posts in this section.  if you are new, search that past, learn from it.  You can ask me my thoughts if you wish, though I am not here much, and there are searches that reveal more, we all do searches on hormones and stuff. 

See through the eyes of others, think gently and kindly, set captives of fear and self loathing free.  That is what being trans is about.  That vision in here was lost.  It can be found again, by those who remain, but those who will come.  it is up to you to write the new chapters though.  You have an unwritten book, you will write your legacies, and they will remain for future generations to learn from, to judge, to expand.  That is your destiny if you read in this or any other section, you life touches others, it is up to you whether you wish to touch for good, or for the creation of pain.  Your words will remain either way, even if they did not, the memories will remain.

Write your legacies well, wisely. 

I will drop in, from time to time, but not very much.  My words are in here in other places, other pages, they may help you.  I leave a legacy, but I do remain, just, not very much.  I lost my friends in here, except for a few.

Cindy is a friend...she is binary, she is a friend.... I have binary friends...nice ones, leaving legacies....

What legacy will you leave, my friends, as you write your name in the sands of time?

Blessings.

Quote from: Cindy on December 05, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
I personally, professionally, and as a viewpoint of the site would love to know how NB's wish to be addressed so that no slights are made.

It is something that can cause confusion and pain which is not meant by anyone.

Cindy you continue to earn my respect and admiration for being relatively fearless.  That you are asking the question here suggests you recognize the pain and confusion some of us feel.  It seems we will each have individual answers with some being nicely unique while no one can speak for the whole.  I doubt we will remember to use all of them.  I misgender myself sometimes LOL and blame it on decades of referring to myself as a guy.  I honestly aspire to not caring how I am gendered but I'm not there yet.  What is clear to me is how I feel about my gender which is female but with full acceptance of the fact i lived and socialized as a man for way too long.

In my case I also admit to some minor residual resentment for being told some 20 years ago I had no business even trying transition because I did not act feminine enough and/or share the formulaic mantra of "i am a woman in a mans body."  I resent my own fear that chained me to a secret.  I have experienced people IRL and here who question my intentions, integrity and effort with a series of unsolicited tips for achieving their stereotypically OK presentation. 

One reason I am here is for solidarity and the non binary folks have generated more of that for me.  The truth is that I was born and primarily considered a boy and man for all but 2 years in a 63 year lifespan.  It seems to takes an ongoing and major declarative announcement for people to get that i feel female regardless of how i appear, act or sound.  That was true before i transitioned and will be true till my expiration.  Gender identity is distinct from gendered behavior or appearance and you would think we could all remember that is where we all started.

Thank you for asking Cindy you are great girlfriend to me.   She and her feel best and the rest works too.

I love it when people correctly gender me as a girl despite my mostly masculine presentation, even on my more masculine feeling days. I think a lot more people think it and don't do so because they think I might be offended...

I can't really get mad that most don't, since I look like a guy to most people in person. If someone called me anything other than she, here or anywhere else online I was using the name Veronica Lynn or something similar I might be though. I purposely chose it in part because it is clearly not a unisex name, though I do sometimes wish I did have a unisex name.

Thank you :-*

I feel humbled.

I would never intentionally misgender anyone, and neither will my staff, but we make mistakes at times, a gentle reminder is all that is needed. No offense is ever meant.

Keep making a difference dear.

Lot of pain in this section, it gets compounded unintentionally by others.  Not that our pain is worse than anyone elses, but it gets hair trigger sometimes.

HAH!  I said hair trigger.  My hair triggers me all the time when I am not wearing it.

I am Satinjoy by the way, I picked up a lot of Ativan's writing style.  Because it is effective communication.

But they rubbed off on me.  It is one reason I still am breathing....

But it is commendable Cindy that you are pushing for respect for us.

Best regards my dear.