Susan's Place Transgender Resources

HRT is great, we all know it. And its never been easier to get HRT with "informed consent", online pharmacies, and overall better awareness.  But I think too many people are placing too much emphasis on getting HRT ASAP for passability

In my experience and everything I've seen its never the HRT that makes a person pass. Its the grooming, the hair, the facial hair removal, and the confidence.  Its the voice. Its the way you move. Its the make up skills. I know it can alleviate dysphoria in many but I don't think HRT is as magical as people are told it is. And on other forums I'm seeing people waiting months and months on hormones and questioning why they don't pass. Surely hormones help but its like 20% of what is needed overall.

Like... if I hadn't stated HRT a year ago, and still got hair removal, the hair cut I have, the voice I now have, the make up abilities I now have... I feel like I'd pass just as well even without the facial softening. I dunno.

Maybe I'm being insane. But spend some time on ->-bleeped-<- and you'll understand what I'm saying.  That the current culture places too much emphasis on  HRT.

You've got a good point. HRT is part of the puzzle, not the whole picture.

I've known enough girls in my life who did as few womanly things as they could manage and still everyone knew they were female. That's what I want for myself, granted I don't want to avoid womanly things like the plague.

Hormones did little to aid my passing. Confidence, attitude and some minor changes in presentation did more for me.

Could I have done it without hormones? Probably.

Meh, I look better now sans makeup than I did before with IMO, after just 10 months of E and 6 on an AA.
I know I wouldn't have wanted to go a single year longer without HRT than I did. Aging on T sucks, don't get on the HRT and you are going to end up like King Canute.

Really though, everything is important.

Hi,

Yes you are right,  because i know a few who had that idear and later when it seemed to not work they were very depressed  and were not nice to know,
it becomes a fantasy or the , to be like the 16 year old sexy looking young girl , plus the wonder drug to change ones look  and other details  false belive from some who should know better.

Im different my own hormones did far more for my body than any added synthic meds drugs

well over 20 years ago , and still doing little things  as id say quite lovely ,

I sure wont say im pretty or sexy or beautifull though my body is just a normal body shape with in how a female should look and take into account my age ,at 67,   though my weight height and size is good , i did not place any false idears that my body would change with added meds ,

im just one of those fortunate ones who,s body worked well for myself and get this over time,some 15 years,  and more so the last 4,

Mind you i looked after my self for 57 years the first 10 of cause dont count.  and this to me was very importaint because i knew i would live as a normal female / woman  , and do .

so do i need added hormones yes to keep my body in a good state of health , though if i had to stop having those meds would i still be okay , knowing my body , my body would have to take up that lose .

I will comment on passability. that was not a part of my thinking or was from age 10, .

My passabiltity comes from ...NOT.... my looks...... its about my attitude demeanor and how i interact with others in being confident selfworth and confidence in my self for who i am,

The other importaint detail is how im accepted if my acceptance was based on how pretty or beautifull i am then i would not be accepted ,its whats with in my beauty comes from who  i am or what makes me who i am ,,

with in our groups im asked to take part and put incharge of others and have responcibilty and i come with a enthusiasm and it shows in what i do , allso when you grow into your self  theres many changes that meds cant do,    you just have to grow. to be your self,

...noeleena...

I think it depends on the person, too. I don't discount voice, mannerisms, and hair in my ability to blend in... but personally, I wanted to be able to be taken for a woman in jeans and a T-shirt with zero makeup and no frills. That's not everyone's goal, but it was mine; I'm lazy. ;) HRT was absolutely necessary for that (which I know, since I was certainly trying at times early in my HRT, complete with groomed eyebrows and feminine voice and body language). I also have had the experience of being unable to get people to believe my "before" photos are really me, even when I had the same distinctive mid-back-length hair back then.

I'm not sure what ->-bleeped-<- is, but HRT is a key piece to transitioning. Or even just key sometimes for alleviating disphoria.

All of this is only in the context of me, but HRT was the difference between my former male skin and my much smoother female skin. HRT was the difference between balding and a full head of hair. HRT was the difference in giving me a basic female figure and appearance. HRT was the difference in my mind being able to cope with the hormones going through it.

Sounds pretty magical to me. :)

I agree about the ability to pass as a woman, I feel like I might be able to pass like this and the picture on my avatar was literally one week of HRT... and even right now I look the same because it's only been 2 months and no facial changes... But I need to be on HRT asap, right now I think I would need to stop because of my transphobic family, and it's not just the physical changes, it's the psychological changes too, and I'm not depressed when I'm taking HRT, and I am feeling more hopeful about my future and I feel like it's just because of HRT, because prior to HRT I was very depressed, and without it I would feel the same way as before.

Do I think HRT is some sort of magic pills, absolutely not. Does it make a difference in passability in some cases, yes, I think it's a matter of how long you have been living with the poison of testosterone running through your veins, such as myself. I started my transition at the age of 50. So I do need the HRT to help change my skin and my body hair to help me to be able to pass. Now I do agree that there are a lot of little changes that need to be made, such as grooming, hairstyle, makeup, mannerisms and speech patterns that need to be changed in order to pass. That's just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Much love,

Melissa Ann

For what its worth, I'm speaking as someone who's not gone past HRT yet.

I have the feeling that HRT is in many ways the easy part. It's understandable to focus on HRT because the reward is huge, and all you need to do is take some medication. Social transition, at least for me (I'm older and not started it) is a huge effort and very disruptive to life. Give me a magic pill anyday rather than face all that.

I suspect that even the various surgeries you can have are like HRT, easy. You pay your money and things happen, big things. You don't have to make much effort as its external not internal (I'm ignoring the problems of getting the money together of course). I think its easy to focus on SRS for the same reason, which I'm guilty of doing, but I do realize that.

Perhaps also a lot of people who are most vocal about HRT are still in the early days, especially as a lot of people seem to drop out of the online communities after transitioning. I think the more problems you have the more you want to talk about it all, and there's lot of problems at the start.

I've taken HRT for years, and I still pass as 100% male. There's zero female in my normal presentation. Its on purpose, but does show the limits of HRT, although its a bit of a trial mentally. I guess if HRT really were magic that wouldn't be possible.

But I do feel its like a magic pill in some ways. Even ignoring the physical effects, I'd have never imagined something could have the mental effects that it did, and its given me a very clear direction to take in life. All the usual stuff I suppose. The hard part is still in front of me. Pity there's no magic pill for that.

to me 90%  of HRT is for the purpose of not constantly 24/7 of thinking of ways to end my life.

Not sure I entirely get this. I mean this is a support site and yes it has a lot of ppl who are pre-HRT, and are asking questions about it. As I'm sure everyone is aware, YMMV with HRT(due to age, genetic reasons etc). But any therapist/endocrinologist will not say this is a magic pill that fixes everything. Its a catalyst, it can relieve a lot of anxiety for ppl with very severe dysphoria. It does give you breasts, change your skin...it can help with reshaping your body buy ofc no-one should be silly enough to think its the magic pill.
And, I guess by catalyst I mean: by helping someone emotionally, psychologically or even just noticing the texture of your hair or skin changing, it can encourage ppl to exercise more for weight loss and body shaping, encourage ppl to embark on hair removal or learning the things like makeup, speech and so on. So tbh I'm not sure too much emphasis is put on the magic powers of HRT by this site, but you know we also should not rain on peoples parade who are excited about getting it or asking questions about it. Afterall we may be just helping a sister out so she can go from caterpillar to butterfly and fully live the life she always knew she deserved. :)

I agree, Lauren.

The only thing I asked HRT for was breasts. To my thinking anything else would be an unexpected bonus. That it thinned my body hair, feminized my face, gave me female sexual experience and emotional make-up - that was all icing on the cake.

I don't think I could have transitioned without the confidence boosting effect, derived from physical changes, real and imaginary, that hrt gave me. The younger you are, the more powerful its effect in the prevention of further masculinsation. Even between the ages of 20-30 and beyond, there is further, irreversible masculinsation taking place. So, in that sense, it is magic. Just knowing that T's damaging effects have been halted is incredibly calming.

Hormone therapy is critical for me - it helps boost my confidence, my emotions are unlocked and able to flow more naturally - even when I feel the temporary overwhelmed feelings of life circumstance I feel at home. Changes to my body and skin and hair and all of that are critical to me. It's not everything but it's top 3-5 along with voice, style/appearance, and mannerisms.  I could not transition without it so that makes it of the utmost importance. Of course I say the same thing with voice, style/appearance and mannerisms.

Now if you're asking what's the hardest part of transition? It isn't taking the pills it's coming out to spouse first, professionally second and socially third.  Rocking the pills, voice, style/appearance and mannerisms give the confidence for me to do that incredibly hard work so yeah hormones are absolutely critical for me.

For better and worse ->-bleeped-<- is a very different place to here (much more wild west), and I can see how the discussion there might make it easy to overlook the other aspects of transition. I find YouTube very different again, and watching a single person over the course of their transition makes it much clearer. Both the video and that focus on the individual over time works in a very different way to text based forums. I think you get a better overall picture of how it really works like that.

I just realized I've forgotten what I was expecting when I started HRT, but I'm pretty sure it was different to what I got.

Quote from: stephaniec on November 09, 2014, 04:30:38 AM
to me 90%  of HRT is for the purpose of not constantly 24/7 of thinking of ways to end my life.

I've never reached the point of thinking about suicide fortunately, but I think I would without HRT. I love it all, but the most important part is happy I feel now. And its not just not depressed anymore, but I actually feel great. I don't know if this is how people normally feel or of I'm on some kind of long term estrogen high.

For me, HRT was a game changer and a force multiplier. That, including electrolysis and future FFS are my holy trinity of transitioning.

HRT for me puts everything all together. The short time I was on it, my breasts started developing and my skin felt heavenly. I also had a spring in my step. Without the E I feel absolutely horrid and like I want to just not wake up each morning.

I didn't get HRT to pass, I got it to feel hope and 'normal'.  I don't think passing is the only or even key thing for all people.

I was already girly as hell before hormones. I wasn't passable before them but I certainly never got "sir'd". If you act, dress & present in a very feminine manner, people won't be able to call you anything besides "she" because it mind focks them. That was my experience anyways haha You're either a girl or a very very girly guy (either of which I had no problem with).  I did have many people ask me what I preferred to be called though which I obviously responded with "she". The hormones were necessary though. They were necessary for me to stop my male puberty from continuing & to begin developing into a girl. Now, even if people do know I'm a tgirl (I honestly don't care), whether they see me as a girl, EXTREMELY girly guy or just a "->-bleeped-<-" it doesn't bother me. I've come to the point that I'm content being myself :) I'm happy & I'm just allowing the hormones to do their job because I'm just going to keep looking girlier. I think hormones are essential & part of the process but I think a huge part is just being happy in general & content with who & where you are. After all, no one cares if you're feeling crappy but you. Might as well be happy, right? :)

It is hard work being a women. Even cis women know this.

I agree hormones are only a small part. But of all the things you do during transition, hormones effect far more details all by themselves than any other thing.

They effect physical and mental things. The physical shouldn't be understated but it is not a golden ticket, still... muscle atrophy, body hair loss, subcutaneous fat, breast development, fat migration, changes to the face, easier tucking, changes in skin tone... it all adds up.

Yeah, I can still pass as male, although I do male fail now from time to time, which is new. Passing as female takes practice but I am seeing great results. Yay!!!

Posture, wardrobe, makeup, eyebrows, voice, gestures and stuff really do make a huge difference too.

No. I think hormones gives hope though, but its not everything. I think of hormones like a ticket to escape to a better city or country... but its only a ticket. Yet without that ticket you are trap and if you go on that plane without the ticket youll get caught and sent home. But once you get to the new city its up to you if you will thrive. Also the longer we wait for that ticket the older the plane becomes... and planes dont last forever. Every plane is different though... even if its old it still works... but for other planes... the route never existed to that city.  Routes can change too we may settle for less. we may have to settle in our home city... escaping into unhealthy but yet coping choices. Yet... even then that homecity will eventually leave us on the street... and we starve. Theres only so much we can do.

HRT may not be a magic pill, but I wouldn't be where I am today without them.

I agree. HRT isn't some magic pill and I too see too many (on other media also) trans women say they need HRT as soon ASAP. Although, I also watched before and after videos of people who already took HRT although they were not out yet and you could see that eventually, they would be outted because of the HRT.

Even the emotions which change while on HRT I think are partly overrated. I do believe although that it makes you feel more at ease, more comfortable with your body. I mean.. I see my young nephew playing with a box with what he has to put shapes trough a certain hole. He gets frustrated when it doesn't fit or gets upset but basically that is the same feeling I got with my body. As if I have been trying to push a square trough a circle my whole life and I cannot wait to just get the shapes in, and stop playing that frustrating game. I am rambling like no tomorrow and probably not making much sense > _ <.

Not sure how and when exactly but two years ago I started opening up for my feelings. Psychically changes are really just my hair getting longer but because I already felt more at ease, my expression changed, the way I move and anything. I can't judge other than what I have seen of HRT but I really wonder if HRT will still really do that much for me now :P. Even with emotions. I remember when my grandma died I couldn't even cry. It isn't that I was not sad I just never really could cry and let out my emotions while now I can tear up while watching a movie with a big group ._.

I also have to add. Some people will see the real you... I attracted guys at a point in my life ((prior summer))just because of myself. I didnt act feminine but I was undeniably feminine... I cant explain it. It was magical a little bit. The reason was because there were hardly any real women... so supply demand... and I guess my charm. I dont know what. Charm. Guys would open doors for me be happy to see me... one guy became weird on me and told me something... but he like me. I cant fault him on that. To this day... guys from that place still see me in that light.

I had short hair.. masculine clothing.. but I did make my face look feminine with oils and perfumes. I look really pretty one day.. it was through mineral oil and hydrogen peroxide. I told people I use dish washer soap in my hair to bleach it. Yet that wad it... but I saw the look of attraction in guys. I felt like Scarlet Ohara. Surprisingly no guy fought it if they were into to me... the most secure one of all at the end of the day never judge me... he was like were out of here. (Since we graduated). I never saw him into me but I think he knew the effect i had on guys...

One guy ever said he was a c-blocker when I was shopping with a friend of mine. But I was with a friend. One guy sat at my table just because of me but went away... a week later he gave me a chocolate ice cream bar. Another guy gave me a hersey bar in front of everyone... in front of females. But a lot of other guys said "Its ...my name". I had a barber give me a free haircut that week.. but i tip him regardless.

That summer.. i became Regina George. I dont know how or why... besides a little mineral oil and the peroxide i look male. Yet my eyes.. resemble a female. I acted blonde too at times.

I dont have it much right now but I am not trying at all at the moment. Yet every once in while I see the look and then I say I still got it.

I think HRT's part it plays is quite dependent on the individual.

I still present as male however HRT completely changed my figure I am a lucky one. This however gives me an interesting point of view as I try my hardest to keep my mannerisms male and I still get called Sisi(I am from Africa its how the general population equates to mam). It is only when i speak that people realize I am male.

In my opinion there is three things you need to pass: Voice(by far one of the most important details as people judge you on first opinions and your voice is a powerful indicator), mannerisms(well this is pretty obvious as if you look male talk male they will call you sir), appearance(by this i don't mean your figure, I mean how you present yourself). I don't believe you need breasts or a pretty figure as humans are evolved being and we are not born perfect, therefore you will always find ciswoman of all shapes and sizes. My half sister has a very masculine face but not once has her gender been called into question so why should yours if you present yourself as you are.

Again it is only my opinion.
The worlds not perfect so nothing works as well as it is read.

Omg. I just realize I was happ`ier back then because people accepted/treated me in a feminine light.

I was reading my old posts right now lol. Now Im reliving it through my memories... i had a reason to exist then.

I cope best when I try to act a little feminine. The past week i been depress more than ever but thats because I am repressing myself at the moment. I act more masculine than ever... so i could fit in at my job.

Even though i may hate everything in life being a little fem allows me to thrive.

I didnt connect that until now.

I think I have to disagree...

HRT worked miracles for me. For the face and breasts especially. But it took at least two years before it made me pass without makeup, and it continues to benefit my appearance. HRT works very slow and it can take years upon years for it's full effect. I am still changing after 4 years. The last two years were like HRT "fine-tuning".

Pills that can literally change your body shape and mental well being?  I'd say those are pretty magical.  Its a slow magic though, not some fairy dust that gives you wings instantaneously.

It isn't like hrt will make you magically pass, but my face is totally shaped differently since being on HRT so I have to imagine it has had a massive impact on my passability. Ignoring other things outside of HRT isn't good, it doesn't work without effort in other areas but, I dont know of people are giving her too much credit.

In my case, I think it made all the difference, especially due to my age. It helped me gain some weight, made my face a little less ugly and more feminine. It got to where I was ma'amed while wearing dirty male work clothes. It also got rid of the big bald spot at the back of my head.  Sure, the other stuff helps, but hrt was the main thing for me.

I've been saying this for years. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me about my pellet HRT regimen because the "results are so good".... I know they are referring to the visual/passing part every time.

And every time, I am left explaining pretty much exactly this. HRT is one slice of the pie, and a rather small one at that. You've all said it many times already throughout the thread so I don't feel the need to repeat it.

But I do want to add... Passability comes down to what you put into it. For some it is indeed probably effortless, as if they were just simply born to pass. Those are the VERY lucky ones. Probably 2-5% of MtF have this experience. I do not put myself into this category. I put a crap-ton of work into my presentation from the get-go. What you see in my avatar is the result of hundreds (if not thousands) of hours of effort spent to attain an evolving goal of eventually passing as female. The speed of my result is a direct correlation to how intensely bad I wanted it. My motivation propelled me more than any amount of E alone could have. The knocker is, yes I think the E helped my motivation levels. So it does definitely play a part.

For most of us, what it will come down to is motivation. That is the key concept. No money & need surgery? Get a job, save, make sacrifices, be brave and cunning on your journey. Divide and conquer. Stop at nothing. Laugh in the face of discouragement. Speaking from personal experience, that is likely what it's going to take.

No amount of HRT was going to turn this dude into a passable Jenny. It came from within
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwmXuiw6.png&hash=4e966637851074a0473e021b0e5b8ca1128e1eaf)

We can't say that HRT is the everything for sure. The best thing it did for me is having physical and emotional feelings.

But I must say that HRT did nearly the biggest job as passing for me. I would have never been able to pass with a bed head and pyjama without HRT.

Well some people barely get physical changes with HRT and ofcourse you can't know what will happen so you can't count on that and must in any way plan without it. I was afraid at start as the first 6 months was like ... "blank" only softened skins, a bit less body hair and emotionals changes but I was still passing well with good clothes, make up and a good hair cut. With those minimum change I was still able to live as myself with some efforts.

I was also talking solely facial changes... but I gotta say, now that others have chimed in on this point, visible curves and big breasts with decent cleavage does make it so I could probably still be sporting stubble and get "ma'am." :) HRT is absolutely the reason my body looks female (barring the downstairs bits since those I paid for, obviously).

Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 10, 2014, 11:00:43 AM
I was also talking solely facial changes... but I gotta say, now that others have chimed in on this point, visible curves and big breasts with decent cleavage does make it so I could probably still be sporting stubble and get "ma'am." :) HRT is absolutely the reason my body looks female (barring the downstairs bits since those I paid for, obviously).

I would have to agree that most of the changes I've noticed from HRT have been welcomed body changes. I think that some others might agree that face usually says the most about passing, but I'm sure this is different for everyone as well.

It is the little things that count, and HRT does exactly that. And it does count!

I would never pass without HRT. Facial hair removal, longer hair and makeup would do nothing to me, except for making me look ridiculous.

Cis girls can pass from nothing but lack of t and e in their system , like just their ovaries doing it , it was important for me , for my body shape , and it helped a lot in how i felt inside too , wanted to be a girl that put no makeup and 0 efforts and still pass like some cis womens can.

Hmmm interesting as I do to feel HRT is integral to the full package  experience and integration into female life.

There is another way to look at the question or scenario and it is what if you took all the female hormones away from a CIS female how would she act, emotionally relate, feel about her body and generally get on with life. I think there would some interesting moments and understanding in a totally different way of looking at this maybe.

Just a thought!

Hrt is for hormone replacement therapy , for me its my "ovaries" in a way , because they give me what ovaries are producing because i was born without ovaries , ovaries replacement . That there is less estrogens in the sytem of cis women is what happen at menopause , and hrt medicine ( estrogen , progesterones , ... pills , gells , ... ) was in part created for the womens who wanted to keep having hormones despite theyr lack of production by the body at menopause.

Edit : i just mean for me its important and i wouldv prefer to have ovaries than to take hrt.

Quote from: Lauren1 on November 08, 2014, 11:20:12 PM
Like... if I hadn't stated HRT a year ago, and still got hair removal, the hair cut I have, the voice I now have, the make up abilities I now have... I feel like I'd pass just as well even without the facial softening. I dunno.

I know this is true, I lived full time for about 3 years before I started HRT and had no real problems. HRT hasn't "transformed" my life in any substantial way even if it has softened by face and given me some fairly large boobs :P I do feel the spiro/blocking the T did calm me down and IMHO had more effect on how I feel than the E did. I know this because I was on spiro only for about a year before I added E.

I think above anything why HRT was super important is it basically made my brain feel normal and that's true whether living as male or female.

HRT did more for me than SRS. Does that mean SRS is overrated? of course not. It is all part of the complete package. Without HRT my skin would look grey and rough. HRT gave me glowing baby-like skin, and more fat under my skin smoothing the roughness in my face. But, your mileage may vary indeed. HRT gave me a full B cup. HRT gave me peace of mind. Is that overrated? I think not. It was essential, even more than SRS.