Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am deeply wounded by feelings of bitterness with the church.  Seems like they love to throw the binary barb out about a man and a woman in relationship, or condemning all forms of homosexuality/lesbianism, with all the stuff i don't agree with there.

So I lose the whole thing based on a microteaching.   Even though literal translations and full scripture seems to indicate we have acceptance, we are in a different category, yet, I can't accept that we are not part of the overall LGBT unmbrella and the angerspeach or the "you are deliberately sinning, change or die in sin, or you cant feel like this, so you have to be alone the rest of your life, or, trans is nothing more than a sexual carnal pleasure".... the list goes on, those are my trigger darts.

How do we release the bitterness so we can maintain a close relationship to Christ and be Spirit filled?  To allow His light to shine from the diamond core of trans, our hearts, our souls, without the shame and condemnation foisted onto us?

How do we overcome.....

It seems the cross of trans we carry is one of bitterness, anger, rejection.  It should not be so, we are people of light and joy and outreach, pulling each other out of the hell of self condemnation and depression and suicide.  That is a high calling, to touch other lives, and reveal that the source of that powerful compassion is straight from the heart of Jesus, of God, of the Holy Spirit, who wishes to indwell us and carry us through this predestined plan He had for our lives.

Thoughts my dears on how to heal this hurt?

Blessings dear ones, from Satinjoy.  Nails out heart wide open.   

I quite simply do not worry about anyone else, their opinions or judgments. I have a personal relationship with G-D and that is more than enough for me. Worrying about others views takes away from your personal worship. I honestly feel I am being led to transition so that is how I am at peace and mental relaxation. The hypocrites can just talk all they want as one greater than me will judge them some day. :)

My question back at you is why are you ALWAYS concerned with the opinions of others or how they see and judge you?

I'm always at a loss why Christ and God Almighty get the blame for what humans have freely chosen to do.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on November 09, 2014, 11:49:05 AM
I quite simply do not worry about anyone else, their opinions or judgments. I have a personal relationship with G-D and that is more than enough for me. Worrying about others views takes away from your personal worship. I honestly feel I am being led to transition so that is how I am at peace and mental relaxation. The hypocrites can just talk all they want as one greater than me will judge them some day. :)

My question back at you is why are you ALWAYS concerned with the opinions of others or how they see and judge you?

That is a good question Lady Jessica.  And I don't know the answer to it.

Hope you are well.

You are in a strong enough place where it doesn't bother you then?  It bothers me,  not that you can handle it, but that it eats at me.  How did you get there?  I do agree with you here, by the way.  And am glad you can feel as you do.  I am quite sure that I am who I am, all of it, and that there was a purpose for that.  But the other stuff still hurts.  Did you go through the bullying thing in school or have verbal abuse in the home?  Or were you fortunate not to have that, or to have learned to stand up for yourself?  Where do you get that strength to be self-approving, regardless of the (foolish) opinions of the Cis?  How did you reach  this place of not caring what others think?

I'm having a hard time with it too.

I was a devout Christian for pretty much my entire early adult life. But ever since transitioning, I just feel disillusioned with the church, because now having lived with people who they label as "sinners," I realized that there's nothing at all wrong with them, they're just doing what makes them happy, and to tell them that they need to change would seriously be unethical.

So yeah, I'm having a hard time reconciling all the times that I told myself I was a freak that needed to get over every single thing about me that made me "different," a "sinner," and be perfect, and transition where I basically had to admit that no amount of praying would ever cure my dysphoria, and that all that trying to pray it away ever did was bring me more and more misery. Plus how can I possibly view transition as a sin when it made me feel normal for the first time in my entire life, after 10 straight years of trying to pray it away and feeling like a disgusting freak who was missing something that every single other person seemed to have?

I can't anymore. But at the same time, every time I try to say something about acceptance, about how we're all sinners but it's okay, God's grace is sufficient for us, our job is to forgive, not to judge, someone else runs smack into me with other Biblical verses about how we're not supposed to even eat with so-called brothers who are immoral, and how yes, some people are just pre-programmed to sin, they're vessels prepared for destruction so that God' mercy can be shown on others, and I seriously just don't know what to think anymore.

It's basically destroyed my spiritual life. Because I don't know what to believe anymore. I can't condone the same "looking from over there as someone who has NEVER gone through this" view that reparative therapy and celibacy and perfect holiness are the answer. And yes, I am bitter that I wasted so many years telling myself that being trans was sinful, and all of the hatred that I poured out on myself because I couldn't change who I was.

Again, I don't know anymore. I used to pray all the time, but it's hard now, aside from being thankful when things go right and asking for help when thing go wrong. I can't seem to reconcile being LGBT with being Christian. And it doesn't help that now I'm willing to bet not a SINGLE member of the church I was baptized in would accept me, they'd expect me to de-transition and go back to being miserable and emotionally brain-dead to be "acceptable" to them again. :(



I don't know, maybe it's just me. I have a hard time having my own opinions. When I say something and it doesn't get approval from anyone, even if I personally believe it's true, I have a hard time saying it at all.

this is my last reply for this topic because the trigger is deep . God and Christ are not the ones to shun

Quote from: stephaniec on November 09, 2014, 11:55:04 AM
I'm always at a loss why Christ and God Almighty get the blame for what humans have freely chosen to do.

I agree...

I try and walk with God each day, and surely talk with him.
I am very upset and angry with the teachings some churches adhere to, condemning us while they're front rows are filled with adulterers, cheats and liers..
But that isn't my God, and I can't let those people dictate my beliefs by they're words of stupidity..
The true nature of God is what saves me, and keeps me away from those misguided people and churches..

Quote from: Mark3 on November 09, 2014, 01:06:25 PM
I agree...

I try and walk with God each day, and surely talk with him.
I am very upset and angry with the teachings some churches adhere to, condemning us while they're front rows are filled with adulterers, cheats and liers..
But that isn't my God, and I can't let those people dictate my beliefs by they're words of stupidity..
The true nature of God is what saves me, and keeps me away from those misguided people and churches..

ditto      (sorry needed  to reply)

Quote from: stephaniec on November 09, 2014, 12:52:32 PM
this is my last reply for this topic because the trigger is deep . God and Christ are not the ones to shun

No they surely are not.  They are everything to me.  The relationship to Christ is paramount to me.  The most important thing in my life.  With direct visions to me and my wife telling us to hang in when I hit the wall and started transition.

I was a strong non-denominational church goer for years, was even nominated by 75% of the membership to elder, but declined. Eventually I tired of the vitriolic commentaries by the pastor about homosexuals and wondered if he had some skeletons in his own closet as he protested too much. There was always some rock throwing by members who disagreed with someone else's lifestyle and used their own twisted version of scripture taken out of context to justify themselves. This is not unlike what occasionally goes on here at Susan's and it is indeed the fallen human nature at work. It happens in any organization and is to be expected as none of us are perfect or ever will be.

Eventually one of the elders was discovered to be bi-sexual and was caught in a sexual tryst with another man. This elder had a devoted wife and a darling teenage daughter who were devastated when he committed suicide after being put out of the church in disgrace. Finally I quit attending church meetings as I am well along in the knowledge of God and His Christ who probably greive over some of the human goings on done in His name. My spouse and I know that Jesus said, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there also," meaning we are the church! Eventually that pastor was accused of some unseemly sexual conduct with upwards of thirty young male members, and he denied it vehemently as his hand picked elders stood behind him. It became a media event and fractured the church. This happens all the time in Christian churches when a pastor and the leadership get too full of themselves. It's unfortunate and tends to give the Savior a black eye in the estimation of onlookers, but mankind's sinfulness is man's problem, so God provided an answer for each individual who acknowledges their own faults and asks Christ into their lives.

Those throwing the stones at transgender and gay people are not perfect themselves, they smoke, drink, curse, steal, cheat and so on, so they too like the scripture says, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" So let's say that a church is a hospital where hypocrites can learn to see themselves in the light of God and hopefully some will be changed. Meanwhile, we can not and should not harbor any high expectations of any human being, because invariably they will come up tarnished just like you and me.

Carrie I do not believe being trans is sin.  Not at all.  Not when I still feel wired into Christ.  And I do.  I have a sticky of an auditory vision from Him that said "trust me."  it has gotten me through much.  My wife hada full body vision and He said to her "fear not".  All related to me being a transsexual person.

The churches error, not His.

Shantel, great stuff girl.

Shan, I suppose I've come to the same revelation, that the whole "holiness" doctrine is the problem, the one of having to be perfect, of somehow Christians being these perfect sinless people who are better and wiser than those "sinners" that they shun because they're saved, that once they were wicked like them but now they're perfect, and they have to act as such to be "real Christians." My church spent a lot of time talking about how not everyone who is "saved" is actually saved because they've seen no change in their life, they're still just as sinful as ever. And they do such a good job of living up to that "perfect" sinless image. So maybe I really have started to believe that there are some people at the top of the church leadership who really can live perfect completely-changed sinless lives, where somehow I've failed to do the same, and thus maybe I'm really not "saved" after all.

I don't know. In my heart I know I'm okay, that God's grace is sufficient for me, but every single time I try to explain why to others, I feel like I'm condemning other people, trying to bring them down to my level, in order to do it.

You've said what I wanted to say, but couldn't. Thank you for your wisdom. :)

Quote from: Carrie Liz on November 09, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
Shan, I suppose I've come to the same revelation, that the whole "holiness" doctrine is the problem, the one of having to be perfect, of somehow Christians being these perfect sinless people who are better and wiser than those "sinners" that they shun because they're saved, that once they were wicked but now they're perfect, and they have to act as such to be "real Christians." My church spent a lot of time talking about how not everyone who is "saved" is actually saved because they've seen no change in their life, they're still just as sinful as ever. And they do such a good job of living up to that "perfect" sinless image. So maybe I really have started to believe believe that there are some people at the top of the church leadership who really can live perfect completely-changed sinless lives, where somehow I've failed to do the same, and thus maybe I'm really not "saved" after all.

I don't know. In my heart I know I'm okay, that God's grace is sufficient for me, but every single time I try to explain why to others, I feel like I'm condemning other people, trying to bring them down to my level, in order to do it.

You've said what I wanted to say, but couldn't. Thank you for your wisdom. :)

You've hit on the bottom line there sweetheart! The scripture says, "there is none righteous, no not one and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of G-d" So that speaks to those who want to look down their noses at anyone anywhere for any reason and try to create a polemic (Us the saved vs them the sinners) it just isn't so. You're in good hands honey and it sure isn't Allstate!

So, it seems that the issue is bitterness with People, as opposed to church, and with specific doctrine, and with legalism, which strangles.

I am all about relational Christianity, the relationship being with Him and the resulting overflow of love and Spirit touching other people and inspiring them to find Him, and forgiveness and the place prepared for us in the next world.

I  think anything that interferes with that one on one relationship with Him is a bad thing, a damaging thing, while anything that encourages us to rely on Him and His strength, living in and through us, surrending to Him, is totally good.  That could have nothing to do with trans but could be interfered with or strengthened by by our own perception of trans, and the peoples perception of trans.

And the best place to express this seems to be in here, with you, since you understand what it is to be who you and I are.  As He also understands since He engineered us, mind, body and spirit.   So we could draw close to Him.

So the separating doctrines of the church do hurt me because it hurts both me and you and I have a serious problem with us gettng hurt, its like I took it for 50 years and have snapped and had enough.

So if our candles dim, I hope we can encourage each  other to reignite in our relationship to the Christ that we understand, however we understand or experience Him.  Especially as trans I think it is important, and i have been remiss in not being in this part of the forum.  If there is anything I have to offer in the way of encouragement.  Hopefully someone gets some kind of help out of it.

Jessica my question does remain, how did you get so bulletproof against others opinions?  Was it because you have one of the toughest jobs ever, as a lifesaving angel in the real world, and that gave you the toughness to overcome anything?

whatever it is, God bless you for having it.

Years ago I had misgivings about attending church services, there was something about the goody two shoes types that grated on my nerves. The guys in the cheap leisure suits with the big bible in the left hand so the right one was free to shake hands, and the plastic Howdy Doody grins on their faces made it clear to me that there was a certain phonyness about them long with the trite sayings to sound religious, but I knew it wasn't about Christ or any reflection of Him, it was just stupid people practicing their pious baloney and it always pissed some of them off because I didn't buy into it myself and being me, I called them on it. Just be real!

It's the phonyness that is a big turn off for a lot of people who might be interested in discovering and having fellowship with their creator on a personal basis. It's these same characters that are throwing the slings and arrows of their self righteous indignation at trans and gay people. Jesus once said, "Those who are with me gather and those who are against me scatter!"

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 09, 2014, 02:21:30 PM
So, it seems that the issue is bitterness with People, as opposed to church, and with specific doctrine, and with legalism, which strangles.

...

As He also understands since He engineered us, mind, body and spirit.   So we could draw close to Him.

And therein lies the first truth - the people, who unfortunately manipulate for reasons of power and control.

I am not a believer in any way, but respects how others live.  I believe and adhere to some common moral precepts relating to respect and care for others, and I think we can pretty much all agree about what is morally right, or at least morally neutral, even if we personally don't agree with it. 

When I realised I was attracted to men, my religion condemned it, and when I also recognised that I was trangender, I could not accept anyone's opposition to something totally out of my control, something intrinsically part of me and which I was born with, and which would harm nobody.  For me these were reasons to conclude that formal religion was the wrong thing for me. 

But ultimately, if you do believe, the relationship only ever needs to be between you and G-d; the intermediaries are superfluous.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 09, 2014, 03:14:23 PM
And therein lies the first truth - the people, who unfortunately manipulate for reasons of power and control.

I am not a believer in any way, but respects how others live.  I believe and adhere to some common moral precepts relating to respect and care for others, and I think we can pretty much all agree about what is morally right, or at least morally neutral, even if we personally don't agree with it. 

When I realised I was attracted to men, my religion condemned it, and when I also recognised that I was trangender, I could not accept anyone's opposition to something totally out of my control, something intrinsically part of me and which I was born with, and which would harm nobody.  For me these were reasons to conclude that formal religion was the wrong thing for me. 

But ultimately, if you do believe, the relationship only ever needs to be between you and G-d; the intermediaries are superfluous.

That's been my take on it Julia, and pretty much what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well!

For us, my wife and i found moving onto a different church helped significantly. It seemed both of us had gotten to a point of self-loathing and couldn't bring ourselves to go back to our church.

Eventually our desire to return to church & fellowship brought us to Google LGBT churches in the area. We found a wonderful new fellowship to call our own. (: They even have a monthly open support group for Trans & SOFFA.

I don't understand why some churches shun LGBT either. Even if they think we are sinners, Christ surrounded himself with sinners. In fact, sinners are pretty much the foundation of the church and aren't we all sinners anyway?

Hi Satin, good question!  :)

I hope you don't mind me answering a question that was directed at Jessica.  For me, I believe the best way to overcome is to rely on the wisdom that the Bible (and in my belief, the King James Bible) gives us as the final authority rather than the wisdom of men.  In this particular situation, I suggest taking great comfort in the doctrine of eternal salvation.  As you know, being transgender isn't going to send someone to Hell.  Not placing *all* of your faith in Jesus and what he did on the cross for us is what sends you there.  With that being said, I believe that those who would condemn you to hell for being transgender are believing in a false gospel.  Matthew 7:22 expounds upon this further, basically saying that many of those who call Him Lord isn't going to make it into heaven (a.k.a the "change or die in your sin crowd).

You have got to arm yourself with the scriptures so you can stand strong against people's attacks and disagreements.  As long as you know who you are in Christ, then that is all you need.

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 09, 2014, 12:19:07 PM
Hope you are well.

I am great, thanks! :)

You are in a strong enough place where it doesn't bother you then? 

Not a bit!  :)


Did you go through the bullying thing in school   

Bullied all through school every day. Ran home, had things taken from me, etc.

or have verbal abuse in the home?

Had three years of continual "Reparative Therapy" (hypnosis, corporal punishments, denial of food etc.) that would be declared abuse by todays standards. Continually told to "man up" and take my rightful place in the world. Let's just say it got quite bad at times.

Or were you fortunate not to have that, or to have learned to stand up for yourself?

I finally fought back in school at around 8th grade. Sent one to the hospital with an orbital fracture and concussion. One got an arm fracture (radius bone) and the other a broken nose. I was totally out of control. I was taken to a steak dinner to "celebrate" my manhood. This was the beginning of my assimilation as a male. Worse day of my life even to now.  :( :(


Where do you get that strength to be self-approving, regardless of the (foolish) opinions of the Cis?  How did you reach  this place of not caring what others think?

When your career deals with death and tragedy you learn real quick what is important in the world. That is simply "Life". No one in the world can hurt you like death can. I stood over many people who's last words on this planet were of regrets and things not done. I told myself that I would never die with such regrets and no one would ever take my happiness with stupid words, gestures, etc. When my time comes I will have a smile on my face and happiness in my heart with no traces of regret for anything. If people do not like me or my choices fine, they can die with hatred and discrimination in their hearts, not mine. I will pass on free as can be with the knowledge I lived a full life on my terms. My creator will smile when he see's me knowing I learned life's most valuable lesson. That lesson is your life is yours to do with what you will. If you allow others to have dominion over you instead of G-D you wasted yours. We are here to learn and live, not assimilate and feel what others tell us to.  :) :) :)

There are only two in this existence who I am accountable to, Myself and G-D. PERIOD!! No one else such as family, friends, etc. as they are not accountable to me as well.    :)

There are two things at work here - the church on earth as defined and understood by man, and our own understanding and relationship with G-D.

The church is flawed as are all things that man is involved with. As Ghandi is reported to have said: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." There is *so* much truth to that - if G-D was walking the earth today would he even recognize those that claim to follow him? Somehow, sadly, I think that many would not make the cut. The bible has several references to G-D telling people to go away because of their unbelief and I believe that many self proclaimed Christians might suffer the same fate if they ever ran into G-D.

So, given that, we must move forward without the church if the church doesn't extend the grace of G-D, secure in our own understanding of scripture and G-D's grace. After all, we haven't done anything wrong - we are trying to to make best of a birth defect.

I have my own relationship with G-D and he has told me i'm OK. He has clearly led me to where I am in life through years of things and events that I did not understand at the time but that are making more sense to me now

I happen to attend a very LGBT affirming church (hey, I live in California! LOL...) but I know that many face rejection from their local churches. Just know that G-D created you and that G-D cares about you and that G-D is involved in guiding your life - turn the reigns over to him; trust and obey.

As far as the churches that reject us - let them stew in their ignorance. There may be a price to pay some day for rejecting G-Ds special children.

Wow,  I love you all.  Faith in action... Real faith, real hope, real love...for each other and for Christ.

As I look at the earthly ministry of Christ I see that he was teaching to common people, having dinner with sinners and raising the dead so that people knew who He was.  However, with the most religious persons of that time, it was "Woe to you... Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites!" and then He went off on them.  He was always slamming the "religious" of the time.

Why in the world would any of us believe that all, most, some or any of the people who go to church and judge others are in fact worshiping Christ in Spirit and Truth??  Why should we be hurt by what those who probably do not know Christ say?  We should be reaching out to them in love and explaining who Christ really is and what the love of Christ really is about. 

If we follow Christ, w should expect that the "world" will not love us.  That we are trans provides additional fuel for the hate.  We go forward out of love for God and out of love for those stupid people that persecute us. They don't know they are stupid.  They need help.

Two years ago I taught a course at a conference and everyone that took it LOVED it.  The conference organizers wanted me back and this spring I was told by my management that I would be teaching it again.  Two years ago, I was not Jennifer.  Today, I am Jennifer.  This morning, I prayed and then I went in and taught.  It went really well.  Over dinner, I sat there and cried as I released the stress.  Being brave and doing the right thing for me sometimes isn't about not having fear but is instead about trusting and going forward despite the fear. 

Hugs,

Jen

There is healing in this thread for me.

"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do."

I am delighted for every post here, they have helped me,  maybe others too.

Blessings

Satinjoy

Trigger warning now.
So went to church yesterday (stealth male mode) and today, I feel like running or suiciding out.  (I will do neither, they are not an option, period, but it is how I feel.)

Bad fruit.  One line in a sermon, always the same  thing, I must have so much mental damage that its just a horrifying tragedy of pain.

Venting dears, just letting my feelings out.  I gotta get through this one I need the kids in church.

UUGGGHHH this stuff is hurtful.

Destabilizes me every time.  which as my poor friend Jessica knows too well is really easy to do:(

I am so sorry for that Jessica, really.   Its my problem not yours, you try to help.  Your words here have helped, I want and need the strength you have, and I haven't really got it.

Tearing up.  Crap.  50 years of purges based on what I thought was required to be saved, as far as I am concerned, its 50 years of severe mental abuse.

Satinjoy

I am just coming out, it has been less than pleasant in my family
family.

recently I was at a support group meeting or a mid 20 your old transwoman that I have never met took to me. A bit later in the meeting she shared intimate details of how she had a gun in her mouth the month before. God's Spirit came over me in a huge wave, I started praying and inside my soul for her. At the end of the night, she sought me out specifically to say goodbye. She knew and I knew there's a connection there of the Spirit.

So I relayed this 2 people, both of which blew right past it. They don't want to hear God can possibly move with these freak shows unquote of life. They only want absolute conforming. Then they go right back to Deut 22. As if God's spirit that moved was invalid!!!

They do not believe that God can work mightily in such situations, they only believe mightily that God can save us from ourselves only within the box they believe he works in, not out in the world. They don't believe God can work through a transgender person because we are "living in sin", haven't we heard this a 1000x  this already?

So where is the church is transgender ministry? I ask this of everybody I meet in the coming out discourse. Of course, the answer is, we don't have one.

If Jesus is the Savior, he told us that the fields are ripe for harvest. However the modern church is telling the harvest to walk into the silo itself, because the members of the church wanted nothing to do with going out to the harvest and doing it themselves. They want a pastor to confirm that indeed the wheat must walk into the silo and pick itself off and throw itself into the refiner.

The church has love backwards, I saw a thing from Billy Graham recently, I'll post it. Billy Graham. Let that sink in. He in first it's not the church's job to be the judge and the jury, I think you got it right.

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 10, 2014, 11:39:45 AM

Tearing up.  Crap.  50 years of purges based on what I thought was required to be saved, as far as I am concerned, its 50 years of severe mental abuse.

Satinjoy

Hugs SJ, it's going to be ok in spite of how you feel right now.

You didn't have to do anything in order to be saved, Jesus did it for you dear, all that is required is that we believe that what He did on the cross is sufficient to cover our sins. The only thing that will separate us from His eternal love is failure to acknowledge the great sacrifice that God levied against His own son on our behalf to pay the price in blood as was formerly agreed upon. We all intrinsically know we and everyone else are sinners, we are only required to acknowledge that and ask him into our lives as Lord and Savior. Following that we can try to live a good life with a thankful heart as an amen to what Christ has done for us, but that in no way changes the fact that positionally we are still fragile human beings and will lapse into all kinds of sin, which is defined as nothing more than falling short of perfection.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Jn 3:16

Just think, the sins of this ugly world are paid in full for all time, the sad part is that there are so many who refuse to believe it and will spend eternity in the outer darkness and miss the big party. The only sin that is mortal is the willful refusal to acknowledge God's provision for mankind's salvation. So like Jesus was saying to the Samaritan woman at the well, it's not where you go but who you know that counts. (Shan's basic gist paraphrased with great liberty, but so true)

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 10, 2014, 11:39:45 AM
I am so sorry for that Jessica, really.   Its my problem not yours, you try to help.  Your words here have helped, I want and need the strength you have, and I haven't really got it.

I know people are going to throw rocks at me and call me really nasty names, but...............

You have the strength. What you do not have is the will to help yourself because it will put you out of your comfortable existence where you do not have to lose things like we did. You basically want your cake and to eat it to. This is my PERSONAL opinion and not related to the forum as a Moderator. So please, do not flood Susan or any of the others with hate mail.

SJ:

Why do you believe it when someone tells that being transgender is perpetual sinful sate of being? Why do you believe that being transgender affects your relationship with God or affects your salvation?

Just before the time of Christ, one of the tests to become a Pharisee required that they disprove each of the 10 commandments using other scripture to do so.  I could quite possibly justify anything you would like me to justify or to condemn anything you would like me to condemn.   

If you know Christ and the power of His resurrection you are in a relationship with Christ, you are not following rules.  Quit listening to others rules.  Sin is anything that hurts that relationship, it is not "o this and don't do that".  In this very weird and twisted way, by you listening to others that it is a sin to be transgendered, it distorts the gospel by adding a requirement to the work that Christ did.  "If you believe that Christ died for your sins and are not transgendered, you will be saved???"  That isn't in there.  The distortion is the sin, not the being transgendered.  That was hard for me to understand.  I believe those are the feelings you felt that lead to the purges a of these years.

Hugs,

Jen       

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 09, 2014, 11:36:26 AM
How do we release the bitterness so we can maintain a close relationship to Christ and be Spirit filled? 

You stop trying to please and placate man and do what you know you need to do. I think you know very well what that means. G-D is driving every step of my life and transition. I have the strength because I am doing his will. Stop relying on your plan and go with his. You will never have peace until you follow what he is telling you in his heart. The more you fight it, the worse you will get because it is out of his will, period.  :)

You will not have a moments peace until you surrender to him completely and totally. I have and now I am enjoying the life he gave me and learning new lessons in life. That is what we are here for. Not to pay bills, work and be led by others, but to learn what he needs you to learn for later. We are his, not ours so give up any thoughts you have about you leading your life because it is not yours to lead. You need to discover humility and the fact you are not in control of poop on this Earth. You suffer because you fight.  :)

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on November 10, 2014, 06:32:41 PM
You stop trying to please and placate man and do what you know you need to do. I think you know very well what that means. G-D is driving every step of my life and transition. I have the strength because I am doing his will. Stop relying on your plan and go with his. You will never have peace until you follow what he is telling you in his heart. The more you fight it, the worse you will get because it is out of his will, period.  :)

You will not have a moments peace until you surrender to him completely and totally. I have and now I am enjoying the life he gave me and learning new lessons in life. That is what we are here for. Not to pay bills, work and be led by others, but to learn what he needs you to learn for later. We are his, not ours so give up any thoughts you have about you leading your life because it is not yours to lead. You need to discover humility and the fact you are not in control of poop on this Earth. You suffer because you fight.  :)

This is why I love you Jessica!  HUGS!!

Quote from: michelle1 on November 10, 2014, 06:59:50 PM

This is why I love you Jessica!  HUGS!!

And I say it because I seriously love all of you even if we disagree sometimes. I feel my whole life and experiences have prepared me for this role in my life. Most people wonder until the day they die what their life plan was and why things happened to them a certain way. I am privileged in the fact I now know G-Ds plan for my life. I had to live through the pain in order to feel it and be able to help others so well. I had to experience the losses so I would be more compassionate and caring. I had to succeed to show others it can be done in the worse situations. All roads led to here to Susan's to continue my career of helping total strangers in their time of need. Sounds like G-Ds plan to me! :)

Carrie,

Remember Jesus broke tradition by eating and associating with tax collectors, sinners, thieves, non Jews, and other outcasts. They didn't have to be perfect for him to associate with them. He reached out to them and all he required was for them to believe in him. Also, His deciples were not all perfect people who were accepted by the Jewish society. Your post sounds like you have encountered some fundamentalist Baptists or other such "holier than thow" denomination. That is not the doctrine of all Christian churches.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on November 09, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
Shan, I suppose I've come to the same revelation, that the whole "holiness" doctrine is the problem, the one of having to be perfect, of somehow Christians being these perfect sinless people who are better and wiser than those "sinners" that they shun because they're saved, that once they were wicked like them but now they're perfect, and they have to act as such to be "real Christians." My church spent a lot of time talking about how not everyone who is "saved" is actually saved because they've seen no change in their life, they're still just as sinful as ever. And they do such a good job of living up to that "perfect" sinless image. So maybe I really have started to believe that there are some people at the top of the church leadership who really can live perfect completely-changed sinless lives, where somehow I've failed to do the same, and thus maybe I'm really not "saved" after all.

I don't know. In my heart I know I'm okay, that God's grace is sufficient for me, but every single time I try to explain why to others, I feel like I'm condemning other people, trying to bring them down to my level, in order to do it.

You've said what I wanted to say, but couldn't. Thank you for your wisdom. :)

Please be aware that I have no issues with Jessica s posts here, there is a core of truth to it.  I am trying hard to heal our relationship I care a.lot about her.

No time this morning but I love the posts, and feel way stronger, had a powerful move of the Holy Spirit praying with my wife last night.

It's a process of acceptance, understanding, and courage, isn't it..
Blessings and thanks
Satinjoy

My relationship with G-D is not the same as my relationship with Christ and in many ways the two balance each other when I find myself in a quandary over trans issues and my faith.

I need quality time to respond, will have it Thursday.

To reaffirm, those who protect my gender identity and feelings, let it play my loves, there is an opportunity here for breakthroughs, for compassion, for love.

I need to address selflessness, hard choices for family, physical transition, God's will for me and my wife and kids, stealth nb mtf, my female needs but notfemale reality.  And God above all.

So there is a lot going on, meanwhile I am off to work, quite genderqueer, knee high women's boots, very long nails, hair, men's clothes.  And they learned to respect it there.

More Thursday.

Blessings

Satinjoy

Quote from: cathyrains on November 11, 2014, 06:30:40 AM
My relationship with G-D is not the same as my relationship with Christ and in many ways the two balance each other when I find myself in a quandary over trans issues and my faith.

Remember God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are really one. They are different ways in which God has appeared to us.

In reply to the wonderful posts here, a couple of things.

None of which are meant to fault or poke at any of us.

Jessica I do believe you have found your path, and I believe we both have the same take on Susan's, I feel I have something to offer and pour out my guts in here transparently hoping it helps someone somewhere some way, and apparently it has because it is authentic to who I am and reaches others with similar scenarios, and you also offer much.  As I would remind you and others of when I had my first breakdown and you offered to stay up all night with me.  Not something to forget.

But I don't criticize your path.  And I am not implying that you criticize mine.  I am validating you my dear.

As to fighting the will of God, maybe, on the body dysphoria, but definitely not on the family stuff, it would be quite the opposite if I crossed  the comfort levels of my oldest daughter who has the serious anxiety disorder, and who has to see her dad as the one that helped and protected her all her life, and in very painful times, like the stalking, like being driven from our homes overnight due to an intercultural marriage certain hostile elements found to be offensive.  Gunshots over your house are not easily ignored.

The wife has come so far, she can finally handle me in lingerie and an open robe but not with my hair on, this is a huge change.  Fully presenting?  Not yet.  One baby step at a time, and entirely under the shrink's guidance.  Social presentation is attractive but I can't quite get there in my own head... the point is well made about having the cake and eating it too.  And why not?  If everone benefits, heck yes.  If not, I make the hard choices for the family's sake.

Since we love each other deeply, and sacrificed much in the beginning, I cannot throw her needs aside.  I would not be able to live with myself.  Nor do I wish to face life alone, so the pain of dysphoria, while sometimes brutal, is still less than the pain of loneliness, and since I would go after men after a loss of the marriage, and transition farther to the mtf side, it represents a huge shift.  One I will not do while she is alive and we are married, so you are correct, the will is not there.  The vows we took are paramount to me.

The kid with the psyche issues can finally handle bare legs and a nightshirt, has seen the camis under the clothes, not deliberately but loose shirts reveal things when you lean over.... and its taken two years for her to understand that my 3/8 inch past the quick, clear polished nails are not going anywhere.  I won't break her, we did the thing with both of us with the shrink, but I stand my ground at the edge of what she can handle.

That is the reality of Satinjoy. You once asked if I was truthful to myself if I would go full mtf.  I asked myself this, and the answer is yes, selectively.  And the other answer is there is no way to predict where it will go anyway.  Dyphoria is incredibly powerful, and I don't  try to control it, if you think about it I am full time under the outerwear and have been a year and a half now, a cups and all.  Trying to make them B's.  Big time hurtful body dysphoria.

So, you are right, so am it.  The fluidity is real, so is the fact  that I am not female soul trapped in male body.  Neither am I male trapped in male body.  I am Satinjoy with  a transsexual body that is beginning to look like it is supposed to look and I need it flat out no holds barred.  With or without the birth thing between the legs.  I'd rather that was a neo-v.

So, I surrender to Gods will, not the church, the leading of the Holy Spirit, and keep at it living the truth as I understand it.  Humbly or not, the ego is a pain to deal with.   It just is.

As to the church, the greatest bitterness I have is that I have to unlearn all the unhealthy anti trans anti gay stuff I was force-fed, I never liked it, I never bought into it, but when you are fed this stuff all your life, try to do it, and fail, then find out the truth that they made a mistake and it cost you half of your mind.... hard thing to overcome, hard to accept.  That I was tricked, that is, that the misconceptions of people have failed me so completely.  God would never have brought me this far, if I was out of His will.  I would have ended it, or not, but I surely would have cracked up totally and horribly.

Thoughts my dear?  I believe your binary solution is true for you, I believe my non binary path is the only path for me to take, that it is real, and that it will work.

The pain of dypshoria is the cross I must bear, whether for a season or a lifetime, that will be determined later.  And its better now that I blur the lines with GQ, hang out in lingerie with my woman, and just keep forcing myself to feel my feelings.

God bless you all my dears.  A lot here responds to Lady Jessica, but its really to all of us.

Blessings my dears.  Love from Satinjoy.  That love is real, it is truly unconditional, it is who I am.

Jessica thanks for chatting again with me, we never get to really talk it out.  I promise I wont trigger, my hormones are stable, my identity is too, so we should be great to chat.  Disagree, agree, anything.

Hang in there girl.  I will too.  We all will.

Satinjoy

I hope you do not think this is over the top as it is my personal belief.

Don't you think if you trust fully in G-D and his promises to you, your family would be OK if you transition further? That they would feel his healing touch and be well?  YOU still want to save them all and that is not in your realm of possibilities. It is for him though. You have not gotten to where you are in life by your doing and efforts, but by his will to allow it. You are no more in control than an ant can hold a dam together as it burst's. Just something to think about. True faith is expressed in belief and not words saying you believe. I live free and true because I honestly feel his guiding hand in my life. In the past I did try to control my destiny, but it never worked because that is not the path he desired. I now go with him and not against him.  :)

I agree my dear..  I know there is a.timing thing in motion.  The kids with the disorders have improved, again we have professional help there.  My transition is under professional guidance, and is full mtf, socially fluid or not.  The core is a blend of both, truly.

But the witness of the Spirit in the core is to take it slow.  I need to respect that.  And the fact of that witness shows He is with me...us...

So I go slowly, but full throttle on the physical.

My wife will be ready when I am in full presentation mode and she decides she wants to walk in and see that part of me.  That will happen when she and God are ready.  For now, walking around in a full slip and open shirt is enough, and that is actually amazing.

My thoughts on discerning His will.

I sure hope my boobs get bigger.  Hard to say, the kids boobs are the same size as mine.

Hope this clarifies.  And if others...not here...wish to condemn me for being trans, then they are the ones in trouble, for they subvert the will of God for us by their error.

And the enemy lies planting doubt.  Spiritual warfare using transphobia as leverage.  A shame.

Blessings

Satinjoy

Satinjoy,

I can fully understand where you are in your transition.  I have wanted for years to be able to transition but not to risk my relationship with my wife. She is apparently more rigid and less accepting in her views than your wife.

I am looking for any ways to push the envelope to get her to be more accepting. She would not, at this time, be accepting of any open and deliberate transition. However anything that could appear to be natural or medically required would be acceptable.

She has been accepting of a few minor changes in clothing without realizing just how much I enjoy the opportunity.  She likes to buy and wear some similar or like clothing which can be viewed as unisex. It can be either women's or men's clothing as long as it does not appear to be strictly feminine: jeans, t-shirts, polo-shirts, jackets, sweats, unisex night shirts and a couple basic summer night gowns, Jockey "for her" plain cotton panties, plain thermol shirts and pants, and other basic items. However no skirts, dresses, slips, panty hose, anything frilly or lacey, or sexy feminine.

I might be able to gain more ground if I could find ways to subtly feminize my body and develop a more feminine appearance like developing breasts, loosing facial and body hair, or finding a medically necessary reason for the removal of those unnecessary male appendages.

Hi Satin. I read your opening post with much interest. First of all, being transgender is a part of God's plan for our lives. It isn't always easy but He knew that with his help we could carry on with the work he has for us. I was reading Ephesians 4:31-32 about bitterness and it may bring  comfort to you. People are going to say things that hurt but the thing is not let others negativity affect our relationship with God and others.

Bitterness only hurts you as I can see. All you can do is forgive those who hurt you and pray for them. Remember, they are sinners also. How many people really know what it is to be transgender? Satin, you can be a blessing to others. Overcome your bitterness with joy.

I know this topic is a trigger for some of you and I understand that. God loves and accepts you as you are.

:)