Susan's Place Transgender Resources

if science came up with a chemical besides hormones  that would leave you physically unchanged, but permanently and totally  blocked dysphoria would you take it or are their other reasons for changing gender expression ( disclaimer: not intended to be taken in any way harmful to any living entity, purely a benign hypothetical thought experiment, which some day could become reality .

Personally speaking for myself I would not take it. My dysphoria has everything to do with my feeling and knowing that I am a woman in a male body. My decision to transition was not based on my dysphoria. Instead, it was based on my overwhelming need to not only think as a woman, but become a woman. I am so much happier since coming to this decision. And don't think I would want to take a pill just to get rid of my dysphoria, because it wouldn't solve my gender issues.

Wow Stephanie. What a question and really something to think about. but no I wouldn't. I have and hate everything male about me. Not the genitals, that is just a deformity maybe? I don't really even want to change that though. It is the cards I got dealt and I will play them, no pun intended. Wow that sounded really messed up but regardless I am who I am. I deal with in the best that I know how. But no. There is a really big reason I go through dyphoria. Because my essence that makes me is female but the body is more or less male. So if I could take a pill that killed the dysphoria by changing the body to match the essence of me? In a freakin' heartbeat. But to change who I truly am on the inside to match the body I was given? No way.

I really don't want to get all philosophical, spiritual or relgious but the inside is our true selves. Not the outside. The inside, the true me, the esscence of me is who I am. Not the junk. So no. That would not be the true me. And the true us is what should shine through regardless of the physical body. If I have to deal with dysphoria to be me then so be it. It hurts though. I won't lie but I won't change the true me for anything. This is who I am. And I am what I am and whatever that is at least I am true to myself and that is the most important part.

I totally agree with Jess. I am reading A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, and it's all about releasing your essence to the world. I also remember the quote "The essential is invisible to the eye". This rings true for me, at least. Our mere existence proves this, no matter how much biology and science can prove the mis-match between our minds and bodies as well.

No, I wouldn't take that pill. But I would take a pill which could change my body to become fully female and have functional ovaries so I could give birth. I would love to be a mom.

I would probably take it tbh. I don't like being trans but it's something I've learned to deal with. If I could have chosen a path outside of all the money & tears, I would have chosen it in a heart beat. The only hard thing would have been finding a boyfriend because I've never been attracted to gay men.

Quote from: Jess42 on November 14, 2014, 03:59:22 PM
Wow Stephanie. What a question and really something to think about. but no I wouldn't. I have and hate everything male about me. Not the genitals, that is just a deformity maybe? I don't really even want to change that though. It is the cards I got dealt and I will play them, no pun intended. Wow that sounded really messed up but regardless I am who I am. I deal with in the best that I know how. But no. There is a really big reason I go through dyphoria. Because my essence that makes me is female but the body is more or less male. So if I could take a pill that killed the dysphoria by changing the body to match the essence of me? In a freakin' heartbeat. But to change who I truly am on the inside to match the body I was given? No way.

I really don't want to get all philosophical, spiritual or relgious but the inside is our true selves. Not the outside. The inside, the true me, the esscence of me is who I am. Not the junk. So no. That would not be the true me. And the true us is what should shine through regardless of the physical body. If I have to deal with dysphoria to be me then so be it. It hurts though. I won't lie but I won't change the true me for anything. This is who I am. And I am what I am and whatever that is at least I am true to myself and that is the most important part.

After reading this, I now feel pretty stupid about my post. :'( :embarrassed:

Great qa! Do we get to pick gender?

Quote from: MelissaAnn on November 14, 2014, 04:33:52 PM
After reading this, I now feel pretty stupid about my post. :'( :embarrassed:

Why Melissa? Hell I agree with your post even. I wouldn't take the pill either. But we all have our own paths to walk. So Hon, don't ever feel stupid about your choices. We all have our choices and what is right for one isn't right for another. We are all unique. We are all special. We are all just as important as anyone else in society. Maybe even more so. Poeple come to this sight for many reasons. May advice sux for some and some may find it useful. Your advice and experiences may suck for some but someone may find it useful in their own life. That is all we can eve ask for is to help someone overcome some obstacle in their life. Being transgender is probably one of the biggest obstacles someone can face in their lives. We all have some of ourselves to give in the way of advice or experience. So never be embarassed about what you have done. It is important.

Quote from: Jess42 on November 14, 2014, 04:49:35 PM
So never be embarassed about what you have done. It is important.

Thank you Jess. It's just your post was so well said.

I doubt I would because as Jess said this is who I am and I never fit in the male world plus I really love who I am

Quote from: stephaniec on November 14, 2014, 05:15:08 PM
I doubt I would because as Jess said this is who I am and I never fit in the male world plus I really love who I am

Hits home for sure. I don't think I could be something that never quite fit. Since deciding to transition I feel so wonderful I couldn't imagine any other way.

Quote from: stephaniec on November 14, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
if science came up with a chemical besides hormones  that would leave you physically unchanged, but permanently and totally  blocked dysphoria would you take it or are their other reasons for changing gender expression ( disclaimer: not intended to be taken in any way harmful to any living entity, purely a benign hypothetical thought experiment, which some day could become reality .

Interesting question Stephanie.  At this point in my life, I would really have to think hard about it.  I'm guessing I would take it just because dysphoria is driving me crazy and wasting so much of my life.  But it's such a part of me, without it I'm wondering if I would feel like an empty shell.  I know when I try to stuff the dysphoria in the closet, I feel very blah, nothing.  It's such a part of my personality, even though the world doesn't know, I just can't imagine losing it.  Does that make sense?

Paige :)

 

Quote from: stephaniec on November 14, 2014, 05:15:08 PM
I doubt I would because as Jess said this is who I am and I never fit in the male world plus I really love who I am

I really hate to say it even but this is what has made me who I am. Without it I wouldn't be me. So unfortunately or maybe fortunately it is one of the biggest parts of who I am. Would I change me? OMFG in a heartbeat. I would be the most beautiful, caring and compassionate woman alive. I would like to think I am regardless of my phsyical birth. :-\ But I would change the outside. Not the inside. The inside is the true me. Not the outside. The outside I could care less other than smooth skin, skin care regeimines, and make up, nice brows and so on. I really hate to say it because it causes causes so many so much pain but being trans has made me who I truly am. It is the biggest part of me and forever ingrained in my personality. Maybe forever which I don't mind.

But gawd my life sux. No trigger from this, your post, Stephanie but it hit me just now. Dysphoria rears it's ugly head.

Quote from: Jess42 on November 14, 2014, 05:39:55 PM
I really hate to say it even but this is what has made me who I am. Without it I wouldn't be me. So unfortunately or maybe fortunately it is one of the biggest parts of who I am. Would I change me? OMFG in a heartbeat. I would be the most beautiful, caring and compassionate woman alive. I would like to think I am regardless of my phsyical birth. :-\ But I would change the outside. Not the inside. The inside is the true me. Not the outside. The outside I could care less other than smooth skin, skin care regeimines, and make up, nice brows and so on. I really hate to say it because it causes causes so many so much pain but being trans has made me who I truly am. It is the biggest part of me and forever ingrained in my personality. Maybe forever which I don't mind.

But gawd my life sux. No trigger from this, your post, Stephanie but it hit me just now. Dysphoria rears it's ugly head.

the biblical beast from the pit

Probably not because HRT does the same plus free boobs.

I found one and did...Estradiol!!!!  ;D

Quote from: Tori on November 14, 2014, 05:46:38 PM
Probably not because HRT does the same plus free boobs.

I've found its quite fun taking a shower with boobs

Quote from: stephaniec on November 14, 2014, 05:43:52 PM
the biblical beast from the pit

Pretty much. But we all have to live and conquer monsters, don't we?

During my first few sessions I told my therapist I just wished there was a pill I could take to make this go away. Up until a month ago, I would have jumped at the chance for such a pill.

Now? No way I would take it. This is who I am and for me it is pretty exciting! I know it is going to be an interesting time ahead but I look forward to every aspect of my journey, the good, the bad and the indifferent. Well maybe not looking forward to telling my parents ;)

Quote from: stephaniec on November 14, 2014, 05:53:19 PM
I've found its quite fun taking a shower with boobs

Boobs make almost anything better. :)

Quote from: Tori on November 14, 2014, 06:30:27 PM
Boobs make almost anything better. :)

What? Who would do this all just to get boobs. I know you mean no harm but I find that extremely trivializing. Boobs won't make the pain go away.

Quote from: Tori on November 14, 2014, 06:30:27 PM
Boobs make almost anything better. :)

I don't know. They are kind of a pain in the butt. Rough roads, bumping into crap but, I guess they are worth it though. I would rather have them than not. Mammograms suck though. Especially if you're not all the way out. But yeah I would still rather have them though.

Aurora,

I was just having fun with stephanie. The post was in jest. Boobs can be a real pain at times.

HRT has made the dysphoria go away for me. YMMV. I wouldn't trade what I have in transition for a pill that didn't bring a more female experience along with the dysphoria lifting. I really enjoy what I have right now too much.

Sorry if I was unclear. I intended none of what you saw in that post.

Quote from: Tori on November 14, 2014, 06:48:30 PM
Clearly.

I was just having fun with stephanie. The post was in jest. Boobs can be a real pain at times.

HRT has made the dysphoria go away for me. YMMV. I wouldn't trade what I have in transition for a pill that didn't bring a more female experience along with the dysphoria lifting. I really enjoy what I have right now too much.

Sorry if I was unclear. I intended none of what you saw in that post.

Um, oki, I am sorry. I guess I can be a real b**ch. It's probably cause I am jealous I am not on HRT, so no magic for me. I should shut up.

Hey, nobody is saying you were a bitch.

If I am not clear, especially when making a joke, it is not your fault.

Aloha,
Tori

No I would not take it, unless I was already female :) :)
I have boobs and semblance of a female figure, apart from face hair and voice felling better in myself

Love Katy

And being female is not just about my body, it's emotions and state of mind...
Just wanted to state my position  ;)

No. I think gender expression is like a fundamental part of the human experience, even if it is all messed up due to being trans. I think if you change that stuff you would risk becoming a different person, to change a mind so much in one go would be for it to become a different mind and this mind right here would rather keep the status quo.

I think many of us have tried all kinds of pills or drugs including alcohol and more to dull our senses and kill the dysphoria demons.  Dysphoria is not a disease but a symptom or manifestation of something much deeper.  Our intrinsic identity at odds with our bods.

We take a pill for everything these days.  I was at a presentation about transgender health care recently and a physician asked why we don't focus more research on curing the "real problem" in transgender people's brain physiology or structure.  Oh that's right they tried that with electro shock therapy.  How well did that work out for us?

There are any number of sci fi type solutions that may become the real future.  Would you bring your fetus/baby to term if you knew they were going to be trans or something else undesirable?  Some parents already face that sort of tough choice with several syndromes diagnosed well before birth etc.

A brave new world of eugenics?  No thanks

I think about this sort of thing all the time, and overwhelmingly hope that this never becomes a standard treatment.  The mistake that society makes is to perpetuate the lie  that we can be something that we are not.  The idea that a pill would 'change' us so that we would be different inside is a myth.  Yes, with complete control over all aspects, you could restructure the brain and even the soul, but this must be a choice that a person makes.  All the same, if this was possible, I bet most of us would make the choice, unless against our own will, to be what we truly are.

If we truly wanted to be female then I would only imagine that such a pill would be have to be taken against our own will.  My hope is just that the trans movement picks up and it becomes much more normal for people to express and be themselves. 

I'm all for the Trans Revolution

Quote from: Auroramarianna on November 14, 2014, 06:49:48 PM
Um, oki, I am sorry. I guess I can be a real b**ch. It's probably cause I am jealous I am not on HRT, so no magic for me. I should shut up.

Being a real bitch is not a bad thing for us MTFs. It is sort of a right of passage. Nature gave me the things and yeah they are fun but no big deal though. Much like clothes, I love clothes though, but clothes don't make the woman and breasts don't either. You do and what you are inside. If you are female then be female. Boobs or not. Don't be jealous. I have little ones but they are sensitive. That is a pain in the butt. I have had them since puberty, yeah a little bit of a freak of nature here, but sometimes more trouble than they are worth. Magic don't really exist. Make your own magic Aurora. Like I said boobs don't me a woman. OMG, I have dated women that had smaller boobs than me. Oh yeah I got made fun of even and I am an A cup. But... I don't care. boobs aren't what makes me feel female. It is way deeper than boobs or a "V". Or as I like to say an innie insted of an outie. ;)

A pill like that would literally mean the death of me. I am who I am, because of who I am. I am female, and in my heart I always have been, removing that from me would mean the creation of something that wasn't....well me?

I don't think removing such an intrinsic part of a persons personality is a moral action, its like the old school lobotomies of old, sure they remove the 'problem' but they also removed the person, their intelligence, their ability to function and their enjoyment of life.

I think such a pill would be a crime against humanity, because even though my trans*ness has caused me so much pain, it is my pain. Pain that went into forming me as a person and without that pain I simply wouldn't exist.

That's my thoughts on it <3
xoxo

Too late now. Pre-transition I doubt I would have taken something like that anyway.

If there was some way to completely revert my entire mental state to the time when I thought I was a cisguy I still wouldn't do it. Even if I had total and permanent amnesia of all that has happened to me. I say this because for the first time in my life I have found traction and feel like I know myself a lot more then I ever did. I know for a fact that I am a girl, this is who I am. It just that I never that I was the real me as a guy, it sort of all felt like I was looking in on someone else's life and that mine was just being postponed.

I never want to go back to that part of my life, totally unmotivated and disliked by many.

- Catherine

Quote from: Tessa James on November 14, 2014, 07:06:47 PM
I think many of us have tried all kinds of pills or drugs including alcohol and more to dull our senses and kill the dysphoria demons. 

This!

Also being numb doesn't change who you are. In the end the dysphoria is a result of you not being yourself. You can't not be yourself and function properly.

Quote from: Jo-is-amazing on November 14, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
A pill like that would literally mean the death of me. I am who I am, because of who I am. I am female, and in my heart I always have been, removing that from me would mean the creation of something that wasn't....well me?

I don't think removing such an intrinsic part of a persons personality is a moral action, its like the old school lobotomies of old, sure they remove the 'problem' but they also removed the person, their intelligence, their ability to function and their enjoyment of life.

I think such a pill would be a crime against humanity, because even though my trans*ness has caused me so much pain, it is my pain. Pain that went into forming me as a person and without that pain I simply wouldn't exist.

That's my thoughts on it <3
xoxo

Wow Jo. You truly are amazing and extremely insightful. Labotomies never even entered my train of thought but you are right. I am so intwined with my "transness" I really don't know how to act without it. Well for starters I wouldn't be me because it has been such a big or the biggest art of my life so far.

But you have heard this and I am sure everyone else has too. "No pain, no gain." Another one is "Steel is tempered with fire to make it stronger." I personally think we are totally underestimated. I believe we are stronger than the rest of society. It may sound really messed up but I am proud to be trans. Especiaplly when the rest of the world try to make me feel ashamed of it. But I still hve pride in being the "T" in the equasion. Yeah it causes me some trouble and strife but look at all the members here. Everyone here gives me strength to be mytself no matter what the consequences that I may face.  We a strong and we are gaining ground. When I got on my home page, Lavergne Cox was making the headlines. How cool is that?

I think that back when I was younger aka early teens I would have taken that pill but nowadays I feel that my dual  gender is a big part of me. I think that taking that pill would  change so many things about me that I enjoy. I have issues but I don't think I would trade it for complete removal of half my personality.

If not having that disphoria meant I could be happy and not hurt/lose the ones I love...there is a chance I would.

I wouldnt be me. I might take it for a day to see what it does and if if can be a coping mechanism then yes. If its permanent then... make me androgynous but dont make me a man since Im not a man in that sense. I cope well because Im short and look cute (through effort).  I never want to look like Vin Diesel... I dont want to be him. I dont want to be Rosie ODonnel either. If no man can find me attractive as a woman then Ill rather be me... since oddly I attract men... way more than women. But its a grey world since I feel like Ariel... the original story...

Im a woman. I need to pass as one. If i cant pass then Ill take beauty over passing.

If theres a pill to make me into a very beautiful man then yes give it to me. I said beautiful not handsome. The closest I can think of is Bill Klautiz but hes not beautiful anymore.

Quote from: Tessa James on November 14, 2014, 07:06:47 PM
I think many of us have tried all kinds of pills or drugs including alcohol and more to dull our senses and kill the dysphoria demons.  Dysphoria is not a disease but a symptom or manifestation of something much deeper.  Our intrinsic identity at odds with our bods.

We take a pill for everything these days.  I was at a presentation about transgender health care recently and a physician asked why we don't focus more research on curing the "real problem" in transgender people's brain physiology or structure.  Oh that's right they tried that with electro shock therapy.  How well did that work out for us?

There are any number of sci fi type solutions that may become the real future.  Would you bring your fetus/baby to term if you knew they were going to be trans or something else undesirable?  Some parents already face that sort of tough choice with several syndromes diagnosed well before birth etc.

A brave new world of eugenics?  No thanks

Wait. If you knew your child was transgender from the start you could treat the issue by allowing him/her pass without the damage puberty bring.

When I was young kid, i worn dresses play with barbies sailor moon... i had crushes on guys since i was in the 3rd grade. I remember guys would say look like a girl when i push my hair back since my eyes were feminine... they still are... but the eyebrows are much lower

Then somehow i hide it all... i became ugly. Gain weight pimples. Escape into the computer. I look better today then i did at 16..

Yeah I would. That is pretty much what I attempted with anti-depressants, but they didn't work.

Quote from: Wild Flower on November 15, 2014, 06:32:06 AM
Wait. If you knew your child was transgender from the start you could treat the issue by allowing him/her pass without the damage puberty bring.

When I was young kid, i worn dresses play with barbies sailor moon... i had crushes on guys since i was in the 3rd grade. I remember guys would say look like a girl when i push my hair back since my eyes were feminine... they still are... but the eyebrows are much lower

Then somehow i hide it all... i became ugly. Gain weight pimples. Escape into the computer. I look better today then i did at 16..

WF I would rather your loving example to be the norm for parents who find they have a transgender child.  I think our culture is moving in that direction and know several families that do support their kids in just that way.  Thanks for a brighter perspective on what parents might do if they knew we were transgender early on ;D

Quote from: Jess42 on November 14, 2014, 10:54:15 PM
Wow Jo. You truly are amazing and extremely insightful. Labotomies never even entered my train of thought but you are right. I am so intwined with my "transness" I really don't know how to act without it. Well for starters I wouldn't be me because it has been such a big or the biggest art of my life so far.

But you have heard this and I am sure everyone else has too. "No pain, no gain." Another one is "Steel is tempered with fire to make it stronger." I personally think we are totally underestimated. I believe we are stronger than the rest of society. It may sound really messed up but I am proud to be trans. Especiaplly when the rest of the world try to make me feel ashamed of it. But I still hve pride in being the "T" in the equasion. Yeah it causes me some trouble and strife but look at all the members here. Everyone here gives me strength to be mytself no matter what the consequences that I may face.  We a strong and we are gaining ground. When I got on my home page, Lavergne Cox was making the headlines. How cool is that?

Right on sisters, we are powerful and we are changing the world as we come on out. ;D

I don't know. I have thought of this a lot. If it would erase the dysphoria and every memory and every last trace, and make me into a fully comfortable alpha male, maybe. This is in light of where I am - successful both in my personal and professional life, husband and father. I look at the story of Lynn Conway and we have a good bit in common. It would certainly make things a lot easier. But if I was younger and single probably not.

I do enjoy a lot of aspects of my life including the closeness of my family and it's really hard considering the prospect of losing it all but the discomfort from dysphoria kills me to an extreme. And it's not like I can even go low dose because while it quells the dysphoria it works like a full dose and I end up wanting more.

No, I think that hrt is only a means of dealing with the negative effect of suppressing the natural state of being and putting into balance for that person the correct path.  I also believe this path is one in which is traversing over many, many lifetimes, and to follow our true path is to allow our star to shine ever brighter with each life.   Dani

Quote from: stephaniec on November 14, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
if science came up with a chemical besides hormones  that would leave you physically unchanged, but permanently and totally  blocked dysphoria would you take it or are their other reasons for changing gender expression ( disclaimer: not intended to be taken in any way harmful to any living entity, purely a benign hypothetical thought experiment, which some day could become reality .

I wasn't entirely sure I understood the question, but this answer makes me think I do:

Quote from: ImagineKate on November 15, 2014, 12:50:10 PM
I don't know. I have thought of this a lot. If it would erase the dysphoria and every memory and every last trace, and make me into a fully comfortable alpha male, maybe. . .

It's as if we're regarding the physique as the default position, and do we want to take some drug that would reconcile us to it?  Absolutely not. Not for me anyway.  It's my soul that's the default position.  I don't want to do anything that would rob me of my feel for it.  That's what I love.  And if it causes me some pain, well, I deal with that.  Because it's not actually my soul that causes me pain.  My soul is my joy.  It's the bloody body my soul was given to inhabit that causes me pain.

I love my son.  On occasion I've had some worries about him.  Not really his fault.  I'm a worrier by nature.  So would I want some drug that might make me love him less, hence worry about him less?  Absolutely not.  And neither would I take anything that would diminish my love of my soul.

Quote from: MelissaAnn on November 14, 2014, 03:51:29 PM
Personally speaking for myself I would not take it. My dysphoria has everything to do with my feeling and knowing that I am a woman in a male body. My decision to transition was not based on my dysphoria. Instead, it was based on my overwhelming need to not only think as a woman, but become a woman. I am so much happier since coming to this decision. And don't think I would want to take a pill just to get rid of my dysphoria, because it wouldn't solve my gender issues.

That was so well said! I wholeheartedly agree with every word. I am transitioning so that I can finally be myself; dysphoria is only one of the many problems I will no longer have once I can be accepted as a woman. Since deciding to be true to my inner self, all of my mental health issues ( avoidant personality, obsessive-compulsive, and social anxiety) have been fading away. Physical issues like hair loss, stomach problems and even irregular heartbeats also no longer plague me. Rebalancing my hormones was the answer to all of those problems that have been crippling me; finally feeling comfortable with my body and mind is only one part of the story. Transitioning therefore prepares me for a successful future in ways that such a pill would never address. If someone cannot accept me for being who I am, they really do not belong in my life anyway, even if they were once a trusted friend or family member. Sometimes, it takes something serious - like discovering a person's true identity - to bring out an intolerant person's true colors. As such, a pill like this would be welcomed by haters and a mortifying thought to me. Imagine how anti-transition people would feel if they (or therapists sympathetic to their views) could change minds under the guise of trying to help. I am so glad it is only hypothetical, or else people who are unaccepting of transitioning might give it to transgendered people covertly. I can totally see my father playing that game. :embarrassed:

It's too late now.  My body has been changed too far to the feminine side.

I had tolerable dysphoria from age 15 to 55 or so.   That wasn't too bad.  I could have handled that if it had continued.

Hypogonadism, low T and high E2, increased my dysphoria to the point where I was compelled to do something about it.

Once my T dropped to pre-puberty levels I was back where I was as a child. I was convinced (again) that I needed a female body.

I took testosterone HRT for years, hoping it would make me male and comfortable with that.   It only increased my dysphoria.  If they had a pill that would have done what they said testosterone would do for me I would have taken it.

I firmly believe that no one wants to be transsexual.  We go to great lengths to change our bodies and our social role.  It would be so much easier to simply stop being trans*.

The fact that no psychologist or counselor can change our brains and thought to eliminate dysphoria  without transition simply demonstrates how powerless counselors are.

I'd be afraid to. I've struggled with who I am for most of my life and tried changing in so many ways. I've also tried forcing dysphoria away by medicating the depression it caused. I can't force myself to be what I'm not anymore because that's just been too traumatizing before. Now I'm happy for the first time in my life, and I don't want that feeling to go away. I'd have to think deeply about it before I would attempt a "miracle cure" pill.

Quote from: Foxglove on November 15, 2014, 01:56:39 PM

It's as if we're regarding the physique as the default position, and do we want to take some drug that would reconcile us to it?  Absolutely not. Not for me anyway.  It's my soul that's the default position.  I don't want to do anything that would rob me of my feel for it.  That's what I love.  And if it causes me some pain, well, I deal with that.  Because it's not actually my soul that causes me pain.  My soul is my joy.  It's the bloody body my soul was given to inhabit that causes me pain.

I love my son.  On occasion I've had some worries about him.  Not really his fault.  I'm a worrier by nature.  So would I want some drug that might make me love him less, hence worry about him less?  Absolutely not.  And neither would I take anything that would diminish my love of my soul.

Don't get me wrong, I am past the point of no return now, but it seems day by day my wife is road blocking my transition. Not outright but stealth. I wish I didn't have to deal with this. Every time I do something she gets upset. She looks at me and gets all depressed. She complains about losing "us" and losing "me." Guess what honey, you aren't losing me. You're gaining the real me. But she doesn't see it that way. She mourns it like I'm dying of a terminal disease or something.

In light of this sometimes I just want to give up and if there was a magic wand to make it all go away I would probably seriously consider it. I'm afraid of losing my kids and having one vindictive ex spouse who almost ended my life as I know it isn't exactly helping. I really don't want to lose my kids. I would be depressed beyond any measure.

I mean I really badly want to be reconciled with myself but I feel that I will have to deal with the cost of it all, and that kills me to no end. So my approach now is that I'm marching forward at full speed, and ignoring outside resistance. I feel it's better to just get it over with.

No

What fun would that be?  I just love everything about estrogen and being one of the girls.

Quote from: Jill F on November 15, 2014, 04:36:42 PM
What fun would that be?  I just love everything about estrogen and being one of the girls.

I'm finding the changes too impossible to give up

Quote from: Eevee on November 15, 2014, 03:26:21 PM
I've struggled with who I am for most of my life and tried changing in so many ways. I've also tried forcing dysphoria away by medicating the depression it caused. I can't force myself to be what I'm not anymore because that's just been too traumatizing before. Now I'm happy for the first time in my life, and I don't want that feeling to go away.

That is how I feel, too. I was forced to take all kinds of psychological drugs as a child in an unsuccessful attempt to change me. The drugs merely silenced me; the pain never went away. It took a while but I finally found a medication that is far more effective than any other: estradiol. It really changed my whole outlook on life and I would never look back or try another route.

My feminine side is what makes me who I am, and I would never want to be happy with a male body or male behavior, because that is not my style. I am not a man, so I would never accept medication that would make me want to be one. To do so would be to lose myself forever.

This is an amazingly well posited query.

For me the answer would be no. A pill to alleviate the issues caused by dysphoria would not appeal to me. It would be masking the root cause rather than treating it. I need to align my physical, spiritual and mental forms and a pill would not suffice.

Though the very question intrigues me I feel for me it would not be a worthwhile tradeoff.

Kami.

So after all that time to lose sight of the real me and be confused and lost again? No thanks.

Transsexuality taught me that you get nowhere denying yourself for who you are. Dysphoria is not an illness you can cure it is a sign from your 'soul'... To stop the self harm and start changing

I posted a very similar question (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,145547.0.html) in the form of a poll a while ago. More than three-quarters said "no".

I wouldn't take it either.  I wouldn't be me anymore.

I'd have to agree with a lot of the things said, I wouldn't take it either.
I haven't even started transition yet but I still know I wouldn't take it, because then I wouldn't be me.

To help with my dysphoria in some ways I just keep reminding myself a Dr Seuss quote: "Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You"
My dysphoria is a part of me so taking the pill would, in my eyes, be removing a part of me.

Before it got bad enough that I had to transition, yes, I would have. Because let's face it, life is a hell of a lot easier when one isn't trans. But now that I'm ten years in, no, going backwards would be troublesome at best.

Gosh, skimming through the responses.. I feel like I'm the only one who would honestly consider it.  :icon_sadblinky:

Personally, I don't believe that removing dysphoria removes the identity (obviously. I mean otherwise you'd no longer identify as that gender after transition). Rather, the identity (plus body mismatch) causes the dysphoria. But I don't believe that it always results in dysphoria.

As for me, I do experience dysphoria.. But I'm starting to feel like there's no "cure", in my case.  :icon_frown: Yes, transitioning would remove the dysphoria.. but I feel like it would also cause dysphoria, because I feel male and female.

And for that reason, I think that yes.. I would take the pill. My male identity would remain, but it's existence would no longer cause me pain.

I don't  know what the  h### I would do, this cra$  started when I was 4 .I've lived a lifetime of torment .  I would of preferred transitioning at 4,but it was the era of institutions and aversion therapy. I had no way to get  the help I needed. I wasn't able to reach out to anyone until life meant absolutely nothing to me. so, I don't know what I would of done, but this is who I  am and I'm leaving this planet the same way I came in as a transgender

Quote from: stephaniec on November 16, 2014, 06:47:05 PM
I don't  know what the  h### I would do, this cra$  started when I was 4 .I've lived a lifetime of torment .  I would of preferred transitioning at 4,but it was the era of institutions and aversion therapy. I had no way to get  the help I needed. I wasn't able to reach out to anyone until life meant absolutely nothing to me. so, I don't know what I would of done, but this is who I  am and I'm leaving this planet the same way I came in as a transgender

This is gonna sound so messed up on so many levels and a big freakin' cliche', but steel, to be as strong as it is, has to be tempered by fire. If not all you have is iron that will bend and break. I would think that who we are and who we become would have to be the result of the hell that nature, life, or something way deeper heaped on us. Or just chance. No if I was a real man I wouldn't be me. Who I would be if I was Cis is a mystery, but that isn't important. Probably the least important thing in my life. I really think the dysphoria and being trans and all the other crap that comes with it, has made me more caring, more compassionate, more empathetic, more loving, more forgiving, a little deeper thinking and an inner understanding of myself and self identity.

Actually the pill would make me fake. It would change the inside to match the outside and the outside isn't who I am.

I wouldn't take that pill, because I'd be effectively killing myself, and replacing myself with a fundamentally different person (i.e. different gender) so no.

Quote from: Jess42 on November 17, 2014, 07:42:13 AMI really think the dysphoria and being trans and all the other crap that comes with it, has made me more caring, more compassionate, more empathetic, more loving, more forgiving, a little deeper thinking and an inner understanding of myself and self identity.

Actually the pill would make me fake. It would change the inside to match the outside and the outside isn't who I am.

I agree; the self-exploration that comes with this has made me much more open-minded and changed my whole attitude towards others. Because, when I was in self-denial, I always hated people and I think it was because I hated myself. I have always wanted to be female at least since I was 5; being unable to express that turned me into a sad, lonely, and hateful person. Now, I feel like you described above. I think the hormonal changes help with this, too; it cannot be attributed entirely to our experiences. My gender is a fundamental part of me and a pill to change it would be the death of my true self; I would not take it even if someone offered me $1,000,000 to do so.

Quote from: Steph34 on November 17, 2014, 07:55:41 AM
I agree; the self-exploration that comes with this has made me much more open-minded and changed my whole attitude towards others. Because, when I was in self-denial, I always hated people and I think it was because I hated myself. I have always wanted to be female at least since I was 5; being unable to express that turned me into a sad, lonely, and hateful person. Now, I feel like you described above. I think the hormonal changes help with this, too; it cannot be attributed entirely to our experiences. My gender is a fundamental part of me and a pill to change it would be the death of my true self; I would not take it even if someone offered me $1,000,000 to do so.

I say this all the time but until we can accept ourselves, we can't accept others. If we can't at least like ourselves, we'll never be able to love others.

There are a lot of people that hate themselves. You see it everyday in the way that they hate others.  They may not even know it. But usually what others hate or dispise in someone else is what they hate and dispise most about themselves. I really don't really care for society too much because society tends to force what it thinks as normal on everyone. But individual people that may hate me, they were conditioned and maybe just maybe a little part of what makes me who I am is inside them too and that is what they hate. :-\ It wouldn't be the first time.

Pfff. I'd rather have my body like this, but then again I'm not sure if the compulsion would be the same without dysphoria? I'm pretty keen on having breasts. >_>

Dysphoria is pretty normal, hormones are normal, trans is normal. What's not normal is denying part of you exists and wants to be heard. Dysphoria can be the instigator to motivate some to transition and live their lives.

I don't think the dysphoria is a single thing that can be turned off. I'm dysphoric because I have the wrong body. My dysphoria is a symptom and not the problem. Maybe my perception of it could be dulled or masked, but the fundamental problem is the me part of me doesn't match the physical shell. Changing the right me to match the wrong shell isn't something I'd want to do.

I want the other pill. :)

What would the pill do though, make me happy in the born body or give me the 'new' body?

I grew up and became who I am now also because of my dysphoria. No it is not an amusing thing but from the other side I learned so much of it. I became a much more open minded and accepting person because of it. I became more creative and gotten a lot more confidence, by accepting who I am.

Taking away the dysphoria also takes away all of that, the good things it gave me. So.. neh, I rather just be who I am and struggle with some difficulties.

Quote from: Kirey on November 18, 2014, 06:30:56 AM
What would the pill do though, make me happy in the born body or give me the 'new' body?

I grew up and became who I am now also because of my dysphoria. No it is not an amusing thing but from the other side I learned so much of it. I became a much more open minded and accepting person because of it. I became more creative and gotten a lot more confidence, by accepting who I am.

Taking away the dysphoria also takes away all of that, the good things it gave me. So.. neh, I rather just be who I am and struggle with some difficulties.

I agree with this so much.

I wouldn't be who I am today, appreciate myself, others, friends, and life as I do if I hadn't had the experiences that defined what hurt me.

At one point I would have said never in a million years, but now... yes. Yes I would.

Quote from: Sephirah on November 18, 2014, 01:48:17 PM
At one point I would have said never in a million years, but now... yes. Yes I would.

it can get to be quite challenging

I agree with Kirey and JenLotus ....... I don't think I would as tempting as it may be. So much of this struggle and journey has taught me so much about myself, my friends and family, and so much else. I don't think I would trade my compassion, understanding and acceptance that I've learned throughout all of this.

no I want more then anything to be seen as a women and to look in the mirror and see a women... Like if my dysphoria over gender was gone because I took a pill, I would lose the opportunity to be the person that I am inside. My dysphoria is such a heavy burden but it is also a driving force. My dysphoria has made me stronger. caused me  to look past what society views  me as in order let the real me exist.

With all that being said dysphoria sucks....

_______________________________________________________________________________________________ What elegant responses to a great question. Unlike many of you, I came to understand this dynamic later in life (just turned 64). The pieces were all there, but they were not coherent. When it all clicked, and I knew what this was, I was euphoric. I remember telling my SO, "You don't understand, I not only feel like a woman, I AM a woman." It was a spiritual experience; and, I see this, in my life as a calling. I am not religious, but I know now what it feels to be called to do or be something. If I could take a pill, I would not, because it would deny me the best part of my being human.  Blessings and hugs, Sheila Grace
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Simply removing dysphoria for me wouldn't end my constant questioning about my identity. So no I wouldn't take that pill because it would just make it harder to find the source of my confusion.

In a way I lived like that when puberty hit at 13. I didn't know what dysphoria was and couldn't understand why I still didn't feel right, which led to the beginning of my depression. Before that I was pretty happy as a kid but at the same time dealt with a lot of "weird moments"

Honestly yes I would take it. I'm stopping my transition so I'm a bit biased but still.

I've come to realize transitioning would lose me my friends and family, and likely derail my career as well. I probably already lost the friends I've told... if not made my relationship extremely strained. Ultimately I'm just replacing the negative feelings I feel from dysphoria with negativity from losing my relationships, support network, being alone and leaving myself in an uncertain financial situation.

What it also comes down to is that I don't think transitioning will fix my dysphoria, at least not fully.

The only thing HRT has dealt with so far was my hormonal dysphoria which has been a blessing but I'll take the short time I was on hormones as a chance to experience true calmness in my life and move on.

My body dysphoria is only going to get worse if I transition as I realize how much I don't look like a woman --- body-wise or face-wise or voice-wise. Sure hormones will help fat redistribution but it can do nothing about my male skeleton. It can do nothing about my male facial structure. It won't ever give me back a high pitched voice. I can try my voice but that feels so forced and fake. Ultimately everything I do towards "passing" just reminds me how I am a fake woman. To be accepted as a real woman by society I'd have to subject myself to surgeries to fix my face, my voice and my body.

And ultimately, my social dysphoria is never going to go away until I do reach that point of "passing" and I can be accepted as a woman. I know some of you have this "who gives a <not allowed>" attitude, but when my family tells me they see non-passing trans woman as freaks and they and my friends are embarrassed to be with me in public if I present as a woman I don't see the point in transitioning. What am I gaining by destroying all my relationships and becoming a social pariah? It's certainly not my mental health.

When my dysphoria hit its crisis phase in 2011-2013 I would have said "yes, give me the pill!"

But now, almost past the point of actively transitioning altogether, I'd say no.  Allowing myself to be a woman rather than forcing myself to be a man has changed my perspective drastically.  I learn a little more each day about the highs and lows of being a woman and I think it's made me a better person for having lived fully in two distinctly different gender roles in my lifetime.

Also I have to say, I love putting together cute outfits!  It just wasn't as fun when I was trying to be a guy. ;D

15 years ago I would have said hell yes. Today not on your life.

Quote from: Nevara on November 18, 2014, 10:35:13 PM
Honestly yes I would take it. I'm stopping my transition so I'm a bit biased but still.

I've come to realize transitioning would lose me my friends and family, and likely derail my career as well. I probably already lost the friends I've told... if not made my relationship extremely strained. Ultimately I'm just replacing the negative feelings I feel from dysphoria with negativity from losing my relationships, support network, being alone and leaving myself in an uncertain financial situation.

What it also comes down to is that I don't think transitioning will fix my dysphoria, at least not fully.

The only thing HRT has dealt with so far was my hormonal dysphoria which has been a blessing but I'll take the short time I was on hormones as a chance to experience true calmness in my life and move on.

My body dysphoria is only going to get worse if I transition as I realize how much I don't look like a woman --- body-wise or face-wise or voice-wise. Sure hormones will help fat redistribution but it can do nothing about my male skeleton. It can do nothing about my male facial structure. It won't ever give me back a high pitched voice. I can try my voice but that feels so forced and fake. Ultimately everything I do towards "passing" just reminds me how I am a fake woman. To be accepted as a real woman by society I'd have to subject myself to surgeries to fix my face, my voice and my body.

And ultimately, my social dysphoria is never going to go away until I do reach that point of "passing" and I can be accepted as a woman. I know some of you have this "who gives a <not allowed>" attitude, but when my family tells me they see non-passing trans woman as freaks and they and my friends are embarrassed to be with me in public if I present as a woman I don't see the point in transitioning. What am I gaining by destroying all my relationships and becoming a social pariah? It's certainly not my mental health.

it's good to find your place

Wow reading back over Tessa wrote something that brought tears to my eyes. If my parents would have known if I were to have been born trans and Eugenics. I may not even be here now. It is hell for sure. It sux and sometimes I just want to lay me down to sleep and just die. Like yesterday. But without the transness I would probably be just another redneck guy that would be a racists and possibly homophobic and transphobic. But I'm not. So I f I have to walk through hell in order to accept and love others for themselves and not who or what they are, then so be it. I will burn happily. Life is about sacrifices. Without the hell that I have been through and if life was all peachy and keen, who would we be? Just a philosophical question. So I would never take a pill to change my essence. That is me and who I am. My body will be nothing but dust in a thousand years. In a thousand years if consciousness is eternal, I may actually be a normal female. Again philosophical because right now I am hanging by a thread. :( Not hijacking this one though.

Quote from: Nevara on November 18, 2014, 10:35:13 PM
I've come to realize transitioning would lose me my friends and family, and likely derail my career as well. I probably already lost the friends I've told... if not made my relationship extremely strained. Ultimately I'm just replacing the negative feelings I feel from dysphoria with negativity from losing my relationships, support network, being alone and leaving myself in an uncertain financial situation.

What it also comes down to is that I don't think transitioning will fix my dysphoria, at least not fully.

The only thing HRT has dealt with so far was my hormonal dysphoria which has been a blessing but I'll take the short time I was on hormones as a chance to experience true calmness in my life and move on.

My body dysphoria is only going to get worse if I transition as I realize how much I don't look like a woman --- body-wise or face-wise or voice-wise. Sure hormones will help fat redistribution but it can do nothing about my male skeleton. It can do nothing about my male facial structure. It won't ever give me back a high pitched voice. I can try my voice but that feels so forced and fake. Ultimately everything I do towards "passing" just reminds me how I am a fake woman. To be accepted as a real woman by society I'd have to subject myself to surgeries to fix my face, my voice and my body.

And ultimately, my social dysphoria is never going to go away until I do reach that point of "passing" and I can be accepted as a woman. I know some of you have this "who gives a <not allowed>" attitude, but when my family tells me they see non-passing trans woman as freaks and they and my friends are embarrassed to be with me in public if I present as a woman I don't see the point in transitioning. What am I gaining by destroying all my relationships and becoming a social pariah? It's certainly not my mental health.

Wow, just when I think I have it bad, I read something like this and it makes me realize just how lucky I am to have always had such a neutral face and voice that some people saw (or even heard) a woman in me pre-transition. Then again, my hair is falling out and even with my T and DHT suppressed, I know I will never have beautiful hair. Life is not perfect this way, but it is the best I can do.

I am definitely risking a lot by transitioning. I could lose my money, my home, even my life, all at the hands of my frightfully intolerant father. As a result, I am still in the closet at home, and dying a little more inside every day I have to put on that act (46 more days... can I do it? :(). In the end, however, it is my life, and if I were to pretend to be a man for financial or safety reasons, I would never truly live. Nor would I ever get a job or make any friends, since I am unwilling to put myself out there in the wrong gender. From my perspective, I was always a "fake" man, pretending to identify with a gender that is antithetical to everything I stand for. The real 'me' is a woman, and being transgendered does not make her any less real in my eyes. I understand that some people will not accept me, but if that is how they feel, then they have no place in my life, either personally or professionally. Now, when a normally peaceful person like me can make such a strong statement, I know I have found my calling. I have been to the edge of a cliff before (a 200-foot high one, no less) and the chance to finally let the real 'me' shine through is the only thing preventing me from falling over the edge.

Back when I tried to present myself in the wrong gender, I had crippling mental illnesses - social anxiety, avoidance, depression, suicidal ideation, and OCD to make me worry non-stop about the other ones. For me personally, HRT is a miracle cure for those mental health issues that did not respond to conventional medications. Even my heartbeat and digestive issues responded positively to HRT. After 23 years in silent suffering, I finally found a way out. If someone could invent a pill that would make me happy as an ugly bald guy, I would not take it. Maybe in a year or two, I will be as beautiful on the outside as the person I see inside of me. If not, well at least I can say I tried.

You did get me thinking, though: If I had no hope of ever passing, would I still go through the process? After much thought, the answer is yes. The list of physical and psychological benefits is overwhelmingly long, even if I will still feel inferior to cis females in some ways.

Quote from: Steph34 on November 20, 2014, 08:52:58 AM
Wow, just when I think I have it bad, I read something like this and it makes me realize just how lucky I am to have always had such a neutral face and voice that some people saw (or even heard) a woman in me pre-transition.

Maybe I would've had the will power to go through with this if even one person in my life was able to see my feminine side, but every reaction I've gotten so far has been overwhelmingly negative.

I don't feel like going through life with everyone saying that my feelings aren't real.

Quote from: Nevara on November 20, 2014, 02:30:29 PM
...

false, probably not the answer you look for. But you found yourself and you are you. This is my oppinion. It's you vs the other's their vision.The thing is that the people who don't see that side of yours don't know you... And that's sad to me, will you live to be a full time actor for a fictional character in everyones life. Or will you push through and prove your existence?

Alas that is my view,the choice is yours