Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Good morning guys and dolls.

Is everyone who transitions a member of their target gender?
If you think it's probably true that everyone who transitions is in fact a member of their target gender, vote 'true'.
If you think it's probably false that everyone who transitions is in fact a member of their target gender, vote 'false'.

Elaborating on your vote is strongly encouraged and appreciated.
Tell me why or why not you believe every transitioner is their target gender.
Nero will not challenge your view. (at least not in this thread :laugh:)
This poll is not meant to denigrate any person or group. I simply want a reading on the consensus of opinion from our members on this topic.

Thank you for participating in this survery.




^{This informative poll was brought to you by our sponsor 107.6 N.E.R.O. Bringing you the best in inspired rants and informative polls non-stop, every hour on the hour with no commercial breaks.}

I guess it all depends on what people think of gender.  In my case, I am female and my goal was always to conform my body/roles with my female gender.  I suppose things are different for people who consider themselves to be bi-gendered or androgynous.  On the other hand, there are also many people who have a very odd/vague/fantastic understanding of what gender/TS'im is but transition to "their target gender" anyway without measuring the consequences.  Well, we all know what happens to these people then, don't we?  Just take a peek at the "transsexual" regrets thread and read their stories. 

tink :icon_chick:

P.S.  Based on my post (especially what has been highlighted), I voted NO.  Not everyone who transitions is a member of their target gender.  They may think they are but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

Hmmmm

I transitioned to be a functioning member of society and gain a life which I can relate to.

I guess, yes... I did become a member of my target gender, but no, I can never truly be one as I will always have the chromosomes of a Male.

So I think True and False both apply.

Buffy

Quote from: Nero on August 13, 2007, 12:41:27 AM

Is everyone who transitions a member of their target gender?
If you think it's probably true that everyone who transitions is in fact a member of their target gender, vote 'true'.
If you think it's probably false that everyone who transitions is in fact a member of their target gender, vote 'false'.

Nero, I really think you should ask more controversial questions of us. You hold back way too much.  :)

You are quite a child of Eris, dear.  :angel: And I am just perverse enough to love it!

Well, Maybe I am her child as well.

I agree with Tink. I think there are many reasons that people find themselves uncomfortable in their lives. TSism is one, but, like a lot of other reasons, that one can be passed (no pun intended) with the proper actions taken by the sufferer. Of course, a person prolly needs to be certain she or he is actually a sufferer.

MY experience has been that a lot of TSes diagnosed as such, prolly are not. They may be ->-bleeped-<-s or CDs, but they cannot quite make the transition to a sex other than the one they are born into. But, they make the journey and find themselves no more calm and self assured than they were before their transitions. I imagine they are not TS.

IMO, this journey is not a way to overcome a sexual identity that one finds uncomfortable. It is not a way to make one's life easier because people of the other half of the binary have easier lives. Such reasoning, although what I imagine is that there is not much reasoning in such choices at all, leads them right back to the misery they were trying to alleviate in a way that was never going to work.

My guess is that we cannot accept too readily the statistics on srs, hrt, etc as a valid way to count TS prevalence as Lynn Conway does. My guess, from my experience, is that TSism is more rare than many of us would like to think. But, I think a lot of folks use it as a false hope of relief from themselves. I would imagine that all of the regretters and many of those who consistently post in places like this about the misery of their lives as they transition are simply chasing the wrong means of finding peace.

So, I answered False.

Addendum: IMO, the idea that chromosomes mean someone cannot 'really' be woman or man is another mistake we often make. Tink, Buffy and I are real women. You are a real man. One's gender/sex is a matter, imo, of soul/mind/heart, not a matter of stains and specimens on a slide. In order to reach that state of feeling and knowing that one is a functioning member of society and humanity one can pretty much discount the chromosomal aspects.

When I lived the way my chromosomes insisted I should, I was not functioning well. Now that I am living in my sex/gender, I function much better, for myself and others. A four cylinder car can run and function on two or three cylinders. It functions best and most efficiently on four. I function on four now.  ;)

Nichole

My answer is "no".  Moreover, I agree with Tink and Nichole.  Not everyone that transitions is transsexual (possess a gender opposite to their biological sex).  Quite an unfortunate reality but it happens.

The old cliche "a man born a man is always a man".  Doesn't work for me.  My chromosomes only define my biological sex. Gender identity is psychological & can't be defined by gametes. 

The question as far as I understood it was "is everyone who transitions a member of their target gender"?  and not "is everyone who transitions a member of their target biological sex?  big difference between these two questions. 

http://www.gendersanity.com/diagram.shtml

This is too clearcut. All it takes is one person to vote no.

Is everyone who transitions a member of their target gender?

False.

some discover that they are neither gender or both.

all hail discordia

i said no, but all of them want to be.

of course not.  there have been many instances when tg's tv's and cd's have transitioned because their philosophy concerning their core identity was disjointed.

How come only people who answered NO are explaining why they think no/false?

There are 5 votes for yes, but I honestly have no idea why someone would believe that.

I think I'd be more comfortable answering this if it was:


In that case, of course they don't. We know people change their minds and untransition, decide they're androgyne, etc.

But the way it's worded now leaves it up to me/us to judge whether someone else is or isn't a "real" man or woman. Same old elitism and prejudice again. NO ONE knows if someone else is or isn't a man or woman inside. NO ONE. Oh sure, you (generic you) can have opinions on it, and spend your time putting others down to patch over your own self-doubts, but in the end... YOU DON'T KNOW. It's their life, and their choice to identify as they please, whether we "approve" or not.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on August 19, 2007, 10:44:13 PM
I think I'd be more comfortable answering this if it was:

"true or false: Everyone who transitions (continues to identify as) a member of their target gender."

In that case, of course they don't. We know people change their minds and untransition, decide they're androgyne, etc.

But the way it's worded now leaves it up to me/us to judge whether someone else is or isn't a "real" man or woman. Same old elitism and prejudice again. NO ONE knows if someone else is or isn't a man or woman inside. NO ONE. Oh sure, you (generic you) can have opinions on it, and spend your time putting others down to patch over your own self-doubts, but in the end... YOU DON'T KNOW. It's their life, and their choice to identify as they please, whether we "approve" or not.

~Kate~

Why is there a wood sprite knocking my poll?

Of course it's their right to do as they please. I'd say that painting those who don't feel every transitioner is in fact a member of the gender they claim as self-doubting is pretty unfair.
Why do you think blacks laugh at wiggers? Give you a hint - it's not because they have doubt as to their own blackness.

Quote from: Nero on August 19, 2007, 11:17:56 PM
Why do you think blacks laugh at wiggers? Give you a hint - it's not because they have doubt as to their own blackness.

I don't know. Why does *anyone* laugh at other people?

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on August 19, 2007, 11:20:35 PM

Quote from: Nero on August 19, 2007, 11:17:56 PM
Why do you think blacks laugh at wiggers? Give you a hint - it's not because they have doubt as to their own blackness.

I don't know. Why does *anyone* laugh at other people?

~Kate~

That's just the way the world has always been.

Quote from: Katia on August 19, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
of course not.  there have been many instances when tgs tvs and cds have transitioned because their philosophy concerning their core identity was disjointed.

I couldnt have said it better.  Incidentally we do live in a cruel world.

QuoteIs everyone who transitions a member of their target gender?

This statement is as false as any statement that implies that every person who believes himself or herself to be transsexual is really so.

Does it matter?

I think the relevant question is "will the person be happy after transitioning". It doesn't really matter what gender they are (and do we mean self-identified gender or gender that other people think the person is representing or something else) as long as they are happy.

that may be the relevant question, but is it the question that will get people to talk?

Quote from: Fer on August 20, 2007, 11:09:25 PM
Incidentally we do live in a cruel world.

And loving, kind and compassionate as well ;)

It's the mix that makes it so delicious!

~Kate~

QuoteDoes it matter?

I think the relevant question is "will the person be happy after transitioning". It doesn't really matter what gender they are (and do we mean self-identified gender or gender that other people think the person is representing or something else) as long as they are happy.

Absolutely! Whether or not a person is truly their "target gender" doesn't matter, and who is it to say if they are. If someone wants to transition and they understand the ramifications involved, all power to them. Only they really know what's inside their heart. The question as I see it doesn't really have a choice for gender outside the binary.

Zythyra