Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone,

i get hormones for 2 years now, including CPA/Finasteride as antiandrogens. My bloodlevels around 100 pg/ml (8h after application), testo around 0,2 ng/ml. Now i had a breast augmentation 3 weeks ago because i had absolutely now breast growth. All fine there. My problem now is my whole bodyshape. Sure ive breasts now but in summary it still looks very masculine. The fat shape around the belly and the hips didnt change in the last years and it makes me masculine. I cant wear any swimwear because it looks terrible!

Its a very discouraging situation for me. Im waiting 2 years for any hormone effects and nothing happens. CPA and finasteride works fine - less hair, less muscles - but nothing more. I reduced my masculinity but theres no feminization!

Ive no solution! Why doesnt work it? Problably it will be part of my further life and thats a hard way for a women in my eyes.

Thanks for reading
Galaxy

What age did you start at?

35, i'm 37 now

Quote from: galaxy on December 01, 2014, 05:17:52 PM
35, i'm 37 now

That probably has a lot to do with it. My friend started at 25 & she didn't see any hard changes til like 2-3 years on HRT. She's going on 4 years now & she's still seeing more changes

Does it mean thats all? I feared that moment.  :-\

Quote from: galaxy on December 01, 2014, 05:32:38 PM
Does it mean thats all? I feared that moment.  :-\

No, it means that for anyone, it takes years to reach complete feminization & if you're older, it might take a bit longer

'hugs' maybe messaging/stimulating areas daily will help fill out areas, like massaging breasts does?

I had a augmentation 3 weeks ago.
I cant believe that anything should happen now after so, so long time.  :embarrassed:

some people take longer, some people don't take as long... not sure if age has anything to do with it, I've seen girls in their 40 develop quickly... whilst girls in their 20s struggle.... as for belly fat, could try waist cinchers in the mean time, I had started with that until my stomach started to go down with my diet..also have kinds that add a little curve.

Quote from: galaxy on December 01, 2014, 05:59:06 PM
I had a augmentation 3 weeks ago.
I cant believe that anything should happen now after so, so long time.  :embarrassed:

:( Two years must feel like ages, especially for those of us who have days that are time dilated from feelings of dysphoria. I know it might feel like it's never going to happen, but it will, your body still has changes to come just give it time xx

The problem is to believe after so long time. I'm waiting for whole 2 years and every day later was a new needle in my soul. So much people told about effects, even here, and i was believing that all and was happy to become a "woman now" and after a year i recognized that something is going wrong ... my doctor has no ideas, we tried so much.

Who was defined these values? Are these facts or options?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fopenmindedhealth.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2FScreen-Shot-2013-09-10-at-7.19.11-AM.png&hash=044af96897a31baaba8e5ead83cd1a16ecdc06ab)

You may need higher levels of estradiol and sometimes, adding bio-identical progesterone helps a lot. This was my case. I feminized poorly on levels of E below 1,000 pg/ml. You should talk to your doctor about this and hopefully, they will help you with this.

Those are averages. Unfortunately the only constant with HRT is that there are no guarantees. Only probabilities. You may want to consider another endo. I've heard of a couple of cases where someone had no effect for 2 years changed doctors and in just a couple of months saw major changes. Unfortunately for me, I'm only just finished my first week. I have a LONG way to go and so all I have are probabilities. I'm looking forward to next week when I supposed to double my dose. I heard the mental changes are supposed to happen quickly and either the effect is minor on my current dosage or haven't happened at all. The only thing I've noticed (which may or may not be a placebo effect) is my nipples feel sore. However if I attempt to verify this with my hands, they don't feel any more sensitive to touch than normal. From what I've heard though, its actually smart that my endo started me on a lower dosage for the first 2 weeks. I've heard that starting too quickly can cause problems.

Quote from: galaxy on December 02, 2014, 08:04:01 AM
The problem is to believe after so long time. I'm waiting for whole 2 years and every day later was a new needle in my soul. So much people told about effects, even here, and i was believing that all and was happy to become a "woman now" and after a year i recognized that something is going wrong ... my doctor has no ideas, we tried so much.

Who was defined these values? Are these facts or options?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fopenmindedhealth.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2FScreen-Shot-2013-09-10-at-7.19.11-AM.png&hash=044af96897a31baaba8e5ead83cd1a16ecdc06ab)

I think my estrogen-dosage is in a higher range already.  ???
Today i was looking after a new doctor and hope this will be the right decision.

My body has not changed much to me. My breasts are growing & nice, softer skin, less hair growth..... However I still do not have any curvy shape at all, I do not think my hips have increased at all, maybe some. My midsection is still too thick & way too big of a waist for a normal female body. I'm very close to seeing my plastic surgeon to have all mid section fat removed, maybe areas on my back & even upper arms to remove old muscle/now fat. I feel great but my body is just not very female yet & it's frustrating so I understand other GF's.

Like I said, I've noticed a big change in my body shape after adding progesterone and switching to injections...within months BUT I also gained in the stomach which SUCKS! I don't have the perfect hourglass shape but still curvy, butt is more prominent, so are thighs, face is fuller/younger looking, hair thicker, breasts a little better.

I had progesterone for 1,5 years and i dont know if it worked to me. I started to take it again. My doctor doesnt give my injections. Here in Germany you have to get from other countries and thats what my doctor doesnt want.

I didn't get the curves I was hoping for, and I've been on HRT for several years, so, I've come to the realization that the only way I am going to get the body I want, is thru surgery.  I had a BA three years ago, and early next year I am having liposuction, fat grafting to my hips, and butt implants. 

 :-\

I am starting to see more significant body fat redistribution at the moment, which adds some extra curvature to some parts and makes other parts looking hideous. I still have some upper muscle bulk left on my back and shoulders, but muscles around ribcage appear to be going away (which makes my ribs to stick out and gives that anorexic look).  I have no idea if this is simply my timeline, genetics, E levels or I had finally figured things out concerning diet and workouts (atm, I am staying mostly on buckwheat and doing one hour of daily hard-cardio on treadmill).

I'm 36 and have been on Oestrogen nd anti androgens now for just over 5 months. I'm seeing good early fat redistribution around the hips, thighs are getting squishy when I sit down and Breast growth isn't quite an A but very close. I was quite fit when I started and didn't have a lot of excess fat.

So I think it's a bit of luck in terms of our biology and our bodies acceptance of oestrogen as well as the shape of our body when we start.

In the end, there are surgeries you can get to provide some of that shape if it's needed. If I hadn't seen anything at all after 2 years then I would be looking towards body augmentation/contouring surgery.

Hugs honey, I know it's hard and we do want things to happen, and sux when they don't or don't happen fast enough. But hey, you have boobs girlfriend! That's a good thing right  :)

I had much less apparent body feminisation during my first attempt at transition than I have had this time, and I'm twenty years older...so I'm not sure age is a factor against you. But I'm also on different meds this time and I figure that must play a part. I have an E implant rather than getting injections, I'm on progesterone, and on Spiro instead of Androcur (and some other anti-T I can't remember the name of). My current endo has told me androcur can result in weight gain around the waist (that was certainly my experience...big belly with tiny boobs).

Anyway, yes HRT plays a part but a lot of it might come down to how your body reacts to it (not the same from person to person) and genetics, there are cis women who don't feminise much either.

That said, that chart you posted is a useful guide and that is all. You said you had muscle and skin softening and it sounds like you are well on track for that. Possibly you are for a number of other things too. As for the female shape that may come down to diet and exercise, many cis women don't have the female shape they desire.

I wish you luck, maybe the new endo will help you more!

Quote from: galaxy on December 01, 2014, 05:59:06 PM
I had a augmentation 3 weeks ago.
I cant believe that anything should happen now after so, so long time.  :embarrassed:

Remember puberty? Did it take 2 years? You are essentially going through puberty again - changes will continue to happen for some time.

I don't get where people get the idea that it all happens overnight?

I think 2 years is not "over night". Its a very long time!!! I often read that people see differences after 1 year. In my opinion it will not be happen anymore to me. Like you said, its on my genetics and my body dont like the estrogen, have a megafast metabolisim and i never felt the estrogen - even in high dosages. I only had limit money for surgeries. Ive no boobs, that are implants! After my augmentation, nose job and SRS i have no money anymore. I hoped that a few things will come with the HRT and that was a big mistake  :'( ... i think my frustration will never end. Its all to bad for a happy end.

Quote from: galaxy on December 04, 2014, 05:12:24 AM
I think 2 years is not "over night". Its a very long time!!! I often read that people see differences after 1 year. In my opinion it will not be happen anymore to me. Like you said, its on my genetics and my body dont like the estrogen, have a megafast metabolisim and i never felt the estrogen - even in high dosages. I only had limit money for surgeries. Ive no boobs, that are implants! After my augmentation, nose job and SRS i have no money anymore. I hoped that a few things will come with the HRT and that was a big mistake  :'( ... i think my frustration will never end. Its all to bad for a happy end.

2 years in puberty terms is nothing - not when it can last for up to 10 years. My gynaecologist told me that I can expect 7 - 10 years to see all possible changes and growth, something my therapist also told me.

But you are obviously going to believe that you are different and that no further changes are possible. I just hope you don't end up like someone I know, who had to have her implants removed after about 2 years, as she'd had a growth spurt.. Between her natural growth and her implants, she looked like she had 4 boobs.

Now, I've not seen pics of you, so I can't comment as to whether your body really is as bad as you say, but I'm going to say a lack of confidence is a bigger issue for you.. I'm the classic shaven ape in a dress and no one questions me.. Why? Because I know who I am and I own who I am - I have confidence.

We are all very different and react to similar issues in different ways - that's just human life. Before undergoing gender reassignment treatment, having been diagnosed with gender dysphoria way back in 20012, I spent the intervening years researching the issues that this condition produces - and every paper produced different time lines and effects.  Eventually I decided I needed to progress as my condition was not getting better!
I have been on HRT for only 8 months (Climaval) starting low and slowly increased to my current level, but Finasteride for 7 years (prostate growth for over 50's males!) and it is my Gender Psychotherapist who is not happy with the speed of my feminization and has prescribed an anti-Androgen to be administered as a monthly sub-cutaneous injection.  (I'm not looking forward to that bit!)  But as I am over 70 now, I would love to see changes in my body - but I still feel masculine with (sensitive) pre-pubescent breasts growing ever so slowly on what used to be an athletic frame (I'm told I look more mid 60's than early 70's!).    (Rib cage 40", Breasts 44" and waist and hips a very masculine 37" at 5'11")
So the message is: stay with it.  Everything come to those who wait!Stay well and try not to rush things.

So, so long ago, in a galaxy far away.. Galaxy, I remember you lamenting about how ugly you thought you were. When I saw your photos, I had to do a double take and check to make sure it was really you. Maybe you sent your sister's photos, eh? If that was really you, and I don't know how you could call yourself ugly, then perhaps you're viewing your body through the same distortion lens? Two years aint a lot of time. I'd give it 5 years, at least. If you're underweight or have no fat to spare, it'll take longer for fat redistribution to have a visible effect. In the meantime, try doing lower body resistance training, like squats or glute bridge.

Maybe the face is a very individual view. When i took 10 pictures, 1 is good and this 1 could upload to any pages. Why should i upload my bad pictures on which i'm looking masculine, old, etc.? Thats not good for a soul and sure i'm looking for some compliments, too ... I'm human. But my pictures always illustrate a "better me", not a realistic. Thats how our virtual world works.

For my body i'm using measuring and it is something doesnt lie. Waist was before HRT 75cm (29,5 inch) - now its 76cm (30 inch). Same on the hips - before HRT 95cm (37,4 inch), now 96cm(37,8 inch). My weight gained by 4kg (8lbs). My chest became a bit thinner - around 1,7 inches because of losing muscles. In the same process my breast also went back by nearly 2 inches. I think theres no possibility to distort numbers.

Quote from: galaxy on December 04, 2014, 06:56:53 AM
Maybe the face is a very individual view. When i took 10 pictures, 1 is good and this 1 could upload to any pages. Why should i upload my bad pictures on which i'm looking masculine, old, etc.? Thats not good for a soul and sure i'm looking for some compliments, too ... I'm human. But my pictures always illustrate a "better me", not a realistic. Thats how our virtual world works.

For my body i'm using measuring and it is something doesnt lie. Waist was before HRT 75cm (29,5 inch) - now its 76cm (30 inch). Same on the hips - before HRT 95cm (37,4 inch), now 96cm(37,8 inch). My weight gained by 4kg (8lbs). My chest became a bit thinner - around 1,7 inches because of losing muscles. In the same process my breast also went back by nearly 2 inches. I think theres no possibility to distort numbers.

Measuring? Against what standard? I'm built like a male and yet still within the standard deviation for women..

But then, I give up.. You are convinced that you will never change and no amount of information will ever change your mind. I still say it's not your looks but your confidence and self worth - and you could look like a supermodel and, without confidence and self worth, you will still never pass. And that's a concept you need to grasp.

EDIT: I should also point out that you are the worst person to judge your own pics.. I also noticed you avoided dealing with the suggestion that confidence is the issue - a sign that you lack confidence.

Quote from: galaxy on December 03, 2014, 06:47:22 AM
I had progesterone for 1,5 years

Progesterone or a progestin like cyproterone acetate? Not exactly the same, some significant differences between both.

Quote from: galaxy on December 04, 2014, 05:12:24 AMits on my genetics and my body dont like the estrogen, have a megafast metabolisim and i never felt the estrogen - even in high dosages.

Did you try gel? Before concluding you are doomed because of your genetics/metabolism, all possible HRT must be tried, always in accordance with your doctor of course. So if they refuse injections, perhaps gel...and bio-progesterone? Ask them, see what they say. I felt the same for several years but then we changed things around and there was significant improvement. :)

Quote from: kelly_aus on December 04, 2014, 05:21:27 AM
2 years in puberty terms is nothing - not when it can last for up to 10 years.

True but there should still be some sort of significant change within 9 months to a year. I tend to agree with Galaxy.

Yes i had real Progesterone like Uterogest - these little small balls. They told me the breast will hurt and grow with it but this never happend to me. First i wanted progesterone short after beginning HRT for better sleep. My changing-phase was very long. 4-8 weeks a had massive problems with sleeping and other side effects.

We tried all forms of estrogens: pills, patches and gel. Since over 1 year i have a split-medication with pills and gel. Gel is better for the liver but pills will increase the SHBG. My SHBG is very low (37 nmol without CPA, around 15-20 nmol/l with CPA). I had really a lot of talks to other transgender an nobody could tell me why my body is "ignoring" the estrogenes. I had some changes in my face and some side effects like striae on my knees, very very dry skin, but no breast growth or fat distribution - the main effects of E2. I also had the effects of CPA/BIC - less muscle, less bodyhair.

I'll throw my 2 cents in  but I have  a feeling it won't matter. your face is beautiful. as far as your body goes, did  you ever hear of the model Twiggy or Kiera Nightley .

Try to stay hydrated all day. Drink lots of water. Drinking water instead of coffee made a huge difference. I can see the difference withing hours after drinking a cup of tea instead of coffee. And exercise, of course.

I've been on low dose HRT for the last 3 months. However, for some reason I can see some changes happening quickly after my 2nd month mark. I believe genetics play a part in your development. Check your female siblings and your mom - are they curvy, skinnier - what's their body type like?
I once read that when you fully feminized your body you will look exactly like them.

Just be patient, I know 2 years is a long time but Rome was not built in 2 years thats for sure.

You are a woman - affirm that to your self and I swear you will see more changes that you can imagine.

Stay Beautiful!

First of all, i'm really not like Twiggy. My BMI is 21.5 and thats really good. My figur is a little athletic, because i really like to do exercises. On the other hand i measured the part of body fat and my body doesnt store more fat than before HRT. A man has bodyfat around 15-20% normally, a woman 20-25% ... I'm still in the masculine range around 17%. Gaining the weight goes to my belly only. A few pounds more means i get a good visible belly - no fat on the breast, hips or legs. I tried it 5-10 times over the 2 years.

I lost a few pounds during my surgery now. My belly is all the same, but i lost some fat on my legs and butt. Its really crazy, because i feel it on my jeans, theres space in the upper part again  :'( ... my body "goes back" and has no feminine evolution. Why?

My family - sister and mom - both have a very feminine shape. My sister has really wide hips and awesome legs. It looks so good. Ive nothing. Every skinny jeans is to big for me, for my little butt. I'm very sad about this fact!

Galaxy, I'll make a guess that its related to hormone blood levels.

I started around 10 years later than you, my levels were quite low for around 5 years, and I didn't get much body shape changes. Using the chart from Wikipedia to convert to your scale my blood levels were around 50 pg/ml (half yours). This was using patch and sometimes gel. My T was in between male and female ranges, and my BMI is over 30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estradiol_during_menstrual_cycle.png

My endo increased my estrogen to about 150 pg/ml and T below female, using implant and spiro. I definitely noticed that. Then I had another estrogen implant with progesterone, and so I'd guess my estrogen is probably at least 300 now (not had a blood test since). I have been seeing way more body shape changes over about 6 months since I started increasing it. I've also started getting a much more noticeable reduction in body hair as well, and I feel great.

I asked my endo what the safe limit was, and he said cis-women's can go into the 10's of thousands at times. You can see huge variation on that chart. Perhaps you can look at increasing yours and and see what happens.

I really believe there is no "one size fits all. My T levels never dropped below what they were before I started HRT no matter what meds I was on, I didn't start till I was 51 and in a few years, I have 36C breasts. I had them stop testing my blood work because it showed zero change from my pre HRT bloodwork, the HRT shouldn't have been doing anything, but it was. The doctor was like "well ur right, the bloodwork shows no change but your body says differently".

I couldn't tolerate estradiol, ended up on estriol creme, medroxy progesterone and spiro. I was on spiro only for the first year as we were fighting with trying to find some sort of estradiol (in any dose) that didn't make me feel like utter crap. Was on spiro with the estriol ramped up slowly for the next year and then added P the third. I don't buy this stuff about "you started too late", see way too many people who didn't start till 50+ get good results. You just haven't found the mix of meds that work for you.

I just had an orchi and I'm trying to figure out what post op mix of meds is going to work.

Quote from: Stephe on December 08, 2014, 12:06:43 AM
I really believe there is no "one size fits all.

I'd agree with you on that, but how else could you have a female blood chemistry and not have a female body?

I think its got to be one or more of age, time on hrt, genetics, or not actually having the right chemistry.

Quote from: Stephe on December 08, 2014, 12:06:43 AM
I don't buy this stuff about "you started too late", see way too many people who didn't start till 50+ get good results. You just haven't found the mix of meds that work for you.

Have to agree with this as well. I'm unfortunately 50+ and my progress is looking quite promising these days. I try not to think what it would have been like a lot earlier though.

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 07, 2014, 11:52:48 PM
I asked my endo what the safe limit was, and he said cis-women's can go into the 10's of thousands at times. You can see huge variation on that chart. Perhaps you can look at increasing yours and and see what happens.

Thats my dilemma. My dosage is high already, other trans are getting half of my estrogen.  In other words: i take the double dosage and have the half of the blood levels of that trans women. I dont know how it happen but i never get more that 100 pg/ml. I tried gel, patches and pills. Implants and injections are not available in germany. If i know how to increase my levels i wouldnt ask.  :embarrassed:

I wasn't doing to well on patches either, and my endo said that people's absorption efficiency varies. I guess you're unlucky with that.

I've not experienced it yet, but apparently after the first few implants its possible to go a year between them.

I didn't realize Germany was like that. Can you travel elsewhere for HRT? Depends how desperate you are, but perhaps you can emigrate? There must be somewhere in the EEC that's better. Sydney's nice...

I was going through a difficult period a while ago and was considering what to do if I didn't get what I needed. I decided to look into travelling to Thailand for HRT if I had to. Thailand's a lot closer to Australia than Germany of course, but perhaps there's other places. I never heard of anyone traveling for HRT before, but I was getting worried. Luckily I didn't need to.