Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I mean, I'm looking at photos and it seems the people who have real results, you know, people you'd think couldn't pass and then end up passing totally from HRT, seem to have started at 20-21 or younger.  Is there even a point in starting at 26, a few months from 27?  I mean, my HGH must be all but used up and I'm sure I've shut up shop for puberty in the last couple years.  I can be on HRT tomorrow, but I just don't know...

I just can't see having drastic results like some girls do and to be honest, I feel like I'd need drastic results.  I just can't see it at 26 and with a full on male skeleton.  At my age and weight it seems pretty unlikely that I'll have adequate changes.  I'm sure I'll get breast growth, but I'm also sure they'll end up being very underdeveloped and strangely shaped.  I can't see getting any fat on my butt or hips either.  I'd love to watch my face chance and my body as well, but I feel I'd have to weigh a lot for that to happen, enough that I'd look huge based off the weight alone and I just can't see how I could end up looking more feminine.

I don't really know what to do or even what I'm looking for in posting this, but is there a huge difference between starting at 20ish and starting at 26?  I'm pretty sure there is and I'm having a difficult time coming to terms with that.  On ->-bleeped-<- there's a girl who started at 20 and after 4 years has a totally different face and body.  She was skinny like myself, actually had a very similar built to me, until I grew a bit more that is.  She seems to have developed to around a d-cup.  I've read plenty saying that at 20 a female body is still achievable, but at 26 is it just kind of minor changes?  I just feel like there's no point.

Hi TQ. Seems like me and you share a lot of concerns. I freaked out a bit and deleted my account. But ye I've become kind of obsessive about looking on ->-bleeped-<- and anywhere on the internet tbh of transitions of people age 25-30ish. I'd also really like to hear what other people think. Like when I hear someone around 21 worrying about whether they will pass I think-of course you will because of your age-so I'd really like to hear what older people think when they hear someone like me at 25 saying the same thing. It could be bad news but I'd rather know. I mean there does seem to be an age where miracles literally are possible, but I don't know what that is. Probably not helpful but from what I've seen it seems like there is this age between like 25-35 where although puberty is long over if you have a good starting point some pretty amazing transformations are possible. Not that people who are older don't but you know on average. Think for me the fact that I went through puberty pretty early is a killer. But I think you'll be ok :)

Hey OJ, yeah, what kills me is that I went through puberty late.  I got tall real fast, but I didn't broaden up until rather late.  I basically would say that I could still be experiencing the tail end of puberty.  A few hairs have popped up on my shoulders over the last year or so, still have acne breakouts, and my face only just recently seemed to stop changing.   

OK, I'm 45.  I started HRT at 43.  I'm 6'2" and have a bigger ribcage than most of the NFL.

Guess what?  I'm happy.  People see me as an amazon cis woman 99.9% of the time, and the other .1% are usually other transwomen.  I don't give a rodent's rectum if I'm "hot" or have big fat knockers.  I'm finally free to be me, and that's all that matters.

Comparing myself to other women, or playing the "what if" game doesn't get me anywhere, and I refuse to go there.  It's all about feeling better about myself.  Honestly, the day I stopped caring about what anyone else thought of me was the best day I ever had in my transition.

You never know what will happen until you actually try, even if it takes FFS and a BA in the end to make you like what you see in the mirror.

Screw societal expectations.  The point was to feel comfortable in my own skin and drop the ridiculous "dudebro" act. 

Mission accomplished.

Quote from: Jill F on December 03, 2014, 06:13:09 PM
OK, I'm 45.  I started HRT at 43.  I'm 6'2" and have a bigger ribcage than most of the NFL.

Guess what?  I'm happy.  People see me as an amazon cis woman 99.9% of the time, and the other .1% are usually other transwomen.  I don't give a rodent's rectum if I'm "hot" or have big fat knockers.  I'm finally free to be me, and that's all that matters.

Comparing myself to other women, or playing the "what if" game doesn't get me anywhere, and I refuse to go there.  It's all about feeling better about myself.  Honestly, the day I stopped caring about what anyone else thought of me was the best day I ever had in my transition.

You never know what will happen until you actually try, even if it takes FFS and a BA in the end to make you like what you see in the mirror.

Screw societal expectations.  The point was to feel comfortable in my own skin and drop the ridiculous "dudebro" act. 

Mission accomplished.

I respect that Jill and I understand what your saying, and you are right, but I just feel really bad that I may have waited a measly couple years too long and TBH, I do want to be hot.  I feel like if I pass I'll be attractive, but I just don't know if I could pass.  Everything would just be easier for me if I passed, and I'd regret it if I didn't pass.  I guess pass or not, is 26, in most cases, too old to expect real soft tissue changes, etc?

well, you just need to ask yourself why you want to be the opposite gender from your birth. I'm 60 something, wish
I was 18, but I'm not.

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 06:22:04 PM
I respect that Jill and I understand what your saying, and you are right, but I just feel really bad that I may have waited a measly couple years too long and TBH, I do want to be hot.  I feel like if I pass I'll be attractive, but I just don't know if I could pass.  Everything would just be easier for me if I passed, and I'd regret it if I didn't pass.  I guess pass or not, is 26, in most cases, too old to expect real soft tissue changes, etc?

I thought at first that I'd just look like a shaven ape in a dress and spend all day dodging objects being thrown at me. We all have our doubts.  It's normal.

I definitely had some noticeable soft tissue changes.  I even had a man call me "beautiful" last week.  Hell, I pass without makeup now.  In fact, I get more attention from men that I ever wanted.  That wasn't the point.

The thing about being "hot" is that it can also be a curse sometimes.  I have a friend who is a drop-dead gorgeous actress who sometimes will just stay at home because the creeps out there won't ever leave her alone.  Last time we went out, she wore baggy sweats, a baseball hat, and very unflattering makeup- AKA, "beat with the ugly stick". 

Be careful what you wish for.

A big part of why I want to be female is the way I look and I'm afraid it can't be changed much.  I literally have a hard time looking in the mirror these days.  I hate the way that my body looks...

Quote from: Jill F on December 03, 2014, 06:37:20 PM
I thought at first that I'd just look like a shaven ape in a dress and spend all day dodging objects being thrown at me. We all have our doubts.  It's normal.

I definitely had some noticeable soft tissue changes.  I even had a man call me "beautiful" last week.  Hell, I pass without makeup now.  In fact, I get more attention from men that I ever wanted.  That wasn't the point.

The thing about being "hot" is that it can also be a curse sometimes.  I have a friend who is a drop-dead gorgeous actress who sometimes will just stay at home because the creeps out there won't ever leave her alone.  Last time we went out, she wore baggy sweats, a baseball hat, and very unflattering makeup- AKA, "beat with the ugly stick". 

Be careful what you wish for.

Well, I can wish all I want, but I don't think that will end up happening to me TBH.

have you talked to a therapist

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 06:39:14 PM
I literally have a hard time looking in the mirror these days.  I hate the way that my body looks...

So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't?  I get it.  I was there. 

I transitioned. 

Basically I traded one set of problems that were unsolvable for a set that I could solve.  The problems are now all being resolved, but I definitely could not go on like I was before.  I would have drank myself to death by now had I not transitioned when I did.  I thankfully got to it just before male pattern baldness reached the point of no return.   If you're in your 20s, do you think you can go on like this and feel this way forever?   I thought so as well, and I tried to suck it up so I'd take my deepest, darkest secret to my grave.  And I almost did.  Twice inside of a month.  Waking up in the hospital really sucks.  The $75K in ER bills could have easily paid for my transition right there.  The problem (and a lot of us older transitioners can back me up on this) is that gender dysphoria just gets progressively worse over the years.

Please address this as soon as you are able.  See a gender therapist if you are not doing so already.  The damned if you do, damned if you don't thing ate me alive and tortured me for years.

Hugs,
Jill

Quote from: stephaniec on December 03, 2014, 06:48:04 PM
have you talked to a therapist

Extensively.  I can be on HRT tomorrow.  I've even gone into see my therapist all dressed up and she pretty much told me that she could see me passing already, even at this early point in the game and that I looked "good, more than good actually."  Told me that 26 is still more than young enough to get pretty dynamic results, but I just have a hard time seeing that.  I partially feel like she's just humoring me/has bad eye sight.  When she first met me she said that she felt I had a high likelihood of passing, but I just really don't know what people are seeing.

Quote from: Jill F on December 03, 2014, 06:53:47 PM
So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't?  I get it.  I was there. 

I transitioned. 

Basically I traded one set of problems that were unsolvable for a set that I could solve.  The problems are now all being resolved, but I definitely could not go on like I was before.  I would have drank myself to death by now had I not transitioned when I did.  I thankfully got to it just before male pattern baldness reached the point of no return.   If you're in your 20s, do you think you can go on like this and feel this way forever?   I thought so as well, and I tried to suck it up so I'd take my deepest, darkest secret to my grave.  And I almost did.  Twice inside of a month.  Waking up in the hospital really sucks.  The $75K in ER bills could have easily paid for my transition right there.  The problem (and a lot of us older transitioners can back me up on this) is that gender dysphoria just gets progressively worse over the years.

Please address this as soon as you are able.  See a gender therapist if you are not doing so already.  The damned if you do, damned if you don't thing ate me alive and tortured me for years.

Hugs,
Jill

Good points Jill, and I can sympathize.  It's already gotten pretty bad for me.  I've been in two hospitals over the last 6 months, including a weeks stay at a psychiatric hospital.  Problem is, I'm not depressed because I'm trans; I'm depressed because I have a hard time seeing how I'd pass at my age and I feel that I just barely missed the chance for drastic changes.  That's really hard for me.  I was going to see a therapist when I was 18, but I was still under my mothers insurance and didn't want her to find out.  If I was 10 years older, then I may feel better in thinking that I wasn't even close, but when your only a couple years removed from puberty, if not just finishing, it's sort of an extra punch to the stomach.  I'd say it's going to happen.  I'm going on HRT, but I just wish I could be realistically thinking that I could end up looking different when I sort of feel like I'm clinging to false hope.  I seem to be losing more and more hope as I think of beginning HRT.

If you are thinking about, or wanting to, transitioning to look 'hot', forget it!  Some of us do, most of us don't.  If you are transitioning because you have to stay alive, (like a limb amputation of a gangrenous growth), then do it to stay alive.

What you look like will develop and generally improve with HRT, given enough time and money.  I played tight end in HS.  I transitioned at 22/23.  I never had a problem passing despite my height or my slender build.  (Yes, I lost about 15lbs in muscle mass due to the hormones, but I have replaced that weight over the decades with fat in all the right places.)

Nope, not transitioning because I want to look hot, BUT what woman doesn't want to be attractive?  I'm pretty worried about my appearance because I KNOW I'd have been hot if I'd have gotten some help before 20.  I'd be kind of devastating to look in the mirror and see a man when if I'd begun just a few years earlier I'd have totally passed.  I'm a good looking guy and at that point I'd have been an easy transition.  Mostly I just want to blend in and barring some drastic results, I don't think that'd be possible.  My frame is definitely masculine, but it could potentially still be diluted if I had good results in terms of body changes.

I started at 32, and went from a big square guy to blending in as a woman within six months (I have never been misgendered since then, and have had people argue with me when I say I was born male). There are plenty of people who are older than 25 who've had fantastic results, and barely even look related to their former selves.

As Jill says, the worst that can happen on HRT is still better than where you are now...

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 09:29:36 PM
Nope, not transitioning because I want to look hot, BUT what woman doesn't want to be attractive?  I'm pretty worried about my appearance because I KNOW I'd have been hot if I'd have gotten some help before 20.  I'd be kind of devastating to look in the mirror and see a man when if I'd begun just a few years earlier I'd have totally passed.  I'm a good looking guy and at that point I'd have been an easy transition.  Mostly I just want to blend in and barring some drastic results, I don't think that'd be possible.  My frame is definitely masculine, but it could potentially still be diluted if I had good results in terms of body changes.

You assume that you'd pass if you'd started younger. Something I've learnt about transition is assume nothing.

I started way later than you.. And I've been on hormones for almost 4 years now. I've got a masculine body, no boobs worth mentioning and plenty of other 'male' physical markers. Doesn't seem to matter - I'm seen and accepted as a woman - by both people who know and those that don't. The right attitude and some confidence go a long way.. As does having a handle on all the things that are not looks-specific. Doesn't matter how 'good' you look, if you are standing like a man, someone will notice..

I transitioned at 18  at planning on getting ffs in about five years to be total stealth but for Now i pass

If this forum had a dollar for every time that question or similar is asked it would be doing well! Look there may be some physiological benefits to transitioning early but you're losing nothing by starting now. If you don't do it now you'll be asking yourself "is 30 too late" in a few years. I had the chance to transition when I was 23 and blew it then spent the next twenty years telling myself I was too old. Guess what? Turns out I'm not.

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 06:22:04 PM
I respect that Jill and I understand what your saying, and you are right, but I just feel really bad that I may have waited a measly couple years too long and TBH, I do want to be hot.  I feel like if I pass I'll be attractive, but I just don't know if I could pass.  Everything would just be easier for me if I passed, and I'd regret it if I didn't pass.  I guess pass or not, is 26, in most cases, too old to expect real soft tissue changes, etc?

I kind of wish I started when I was 10 but I'm glad I now have an established career and kids. Kids would have been out of the picture if I transitioned earlier. Sure there is adoption but to me it's not the same as having your own.

Quote from: Ms Grace on December 03, 2014, 10:33:52 PM
If this forum had a dollar for every time that question or similar is asked it would be doing well! Look there may be some physiological benefits to transitioning early but you're losing nothing by starting now. If you don't do it now you'll be asking yourself "is 30 too late" in a few years. I had the chance to transition when I was 23 and blew it then spent the next twenty years telling myself I was too old. Guess what? Turns out I'm not.

Is it possible to be happy with transition when transitioning after age 25? When I saw this topic, I thought, "Where's Grace!"

As someone else mentioned, they transitioned younger and are still looking at doing facial feminization surgery.

Will you have better results at a younger age? Possibly. Is it possible to be happy with transition later in life? Yes (Source: GRACE). Something I had to deal with before starting HRT was the thought that I won't get my youth back (which, due to never really living it because of how I felt, I feel was completely lost to me). I've lost the chance to be a young girl, a teen, and a single 20something flirt and such that my sister and friends got to experience and enjoy. On top of that, jumping into womanhood seems incredibly unfair to do at 33/34 with no real experience.

To me, transition isn't even about becoming a woman, because I feel I already am one. To me, doing this is about being me. I don't want to die having never been able to live. I've seen people (For various reasons) do that, and it is by far the saddest thing I think I will ever witness. I don't want that to be me. Worrying about my looks ... well ... even if I pass and I'm not particularly attractive (or if I just don't feel I am) that's something most women my age do anyway.

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 06:39:14 PM
A big part of why I want to be female is the way I look and I'm afraid it can't be changed much.  I literally have a hard time looking in the mirror these days.  I hate the way that my body looks...

So....

- You do not like the way you look now

- You worry that you would not like how you look after transitioning

That sounds like a no-win situation to me, but it also sounds like a "What have you got to lose?" situation as well. If you do not transition now then I can guarantee that you will be older if you change your mind. Every day makes you older, so by your own outlook the longer you put off transitioning the less point there is in doing it. The problem is it does not go away. The desire just gets stronger and stronger as you get older and older.

Only you know if you need to transition, as opposed to wanting to transition. If it is a "need" then you will do it.

25+ is too late? Shi.. I am 26 and started today. Age is overrated with transitioning, for real. It is genetics, luck, personality and confidence. You do not become a woman just with looks but also a huge part of how you feel.

It is way too easy to look at people who pass now, even if you see a before and after. I now get told I pass just fine even pre-HRT which is awesome but do you think you see all of my photos? People like to look pretty, especially on photo's and people who show before and afters do not show the awkward stages because you have those. The most awkward stage is when you are just starting and completely new to it.

You probably have gotten compliments already now as a man. Anyone, even if just your grandparents. You probably know what makes you stand out, what makes you unique. That can be your eyes, your chin, your height, anything. Although now for you it stands out as the most masculine there is and the most hated point, big chance it becomes your best feminine trait further unto transition. Masculine jawlines look so nice often after transitioning. So.. stop doubting yourself and make yourself feel bad of what should make you feel unique and beautiful.

Quote from: Kirey on December 04, 2014, 03:51:20 PM
25+ is too late? Shi.. I am 26 and started today. Age is overrated with transitioning, for real. It is genetics, luck, personality and confidence. You do not become a woman just with looks but also a huge part of how you feel.

It is way too easy to look at people who pass now, even if you see a before and after. I now get told I pass just fine even pre-HRT which is awesome but do you think you see all of my photos? People like to look pretty, especially on photo's and people who show before and afters do not show the awkward stages because you have those. The most awkward stage is when you are just starting and completely new to it.

You probably have gotten compliments already now as a man. Anyone, even if just your grandparents. You probably know what makes you stand out, what makes you unique. That can be your eyes, your chin, your height, anything. Although now for you it stands out as the most masculine there is and the most hated point, big chance it becomes your best feminine trait further unto transition. Masculine jawlines look so nice often after transitioning. So.. stop doubting yourself and make yourself feel bad of what should make you feel unique and beautiful.

Thanks Kirey, thanks everyone really.  I don't think my face is bad, with HRT and electrolysis I'd say I may not need FFS, although I'd at least like my forehead recontoured.  I'm just disgusted with my body, large part may stem from the fact that I've had no electrolysis and even when I shave stubble can be seen, and the red marks from shaving as well.  I'm not terribly hairy, but I am hairy to an extent and that makes me feel awful.  I can never get over the fact that I have hair growing in as soon as I shave it.  Having a totally smooth body with no hair growing back would probably do a lot for me.

Anyway, I just signed consent and will be grabbing my mones tomorrow.  So, yeah, I don't know...

good luck

Since you are starting, " 'mones", will you be starting electro as well? 

*mod edit under ToS #5

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 04, 2014, 04:10:29 PM
Thanks Kirey, thanks everyone really.  I don't think my face is bad, with HRT and electrolysis I'd say I may not need FFS, although I'd at least like my forehead recontoured.  I'm just disgusted with my body, large part may stem from the fact that I've had no electrolysis and even when I shave stubble can be seen, and the red marks from shaving as well.  I'm not terribly hairy, but I am hairy to an extent and that makes me feel awful.  I can never get over the fact that I have hair growing in as soon as I shave it.  Having a totally smooth body with no hair growing back would probably do a lot for me.

Anyway, I just signed consent and will be grabbing my mones tomorrow.  So, yeah, I don't know...

Hair grows deep in the skin. You would be surprised. It's like 2-3 mm deep. Try plucking one gently and you'll see exactly what I mean. That's why you have a shadow and the only real way to get rid of it is to do electrolysis or laser hair reduction.

Lowering T should slow the growth to some degree but it won't be significant enough to get rid of your beard shadow.

Since I am somewhat adept at tossing hand grenades, I'll put the question  a slightly different way.

I see all these 20 somethings going on about about transitioning and how great and wonderfull their totally miserable life that it has been up untill now will be so much happier and better. I think. Are they F'n crazy? Do these people maybe have an independent life, as in a job, their own place, have to buy food, do laundry etc. Mostly not, still in school, still living at home. Yet they see their life as over unless.... Teenage angst taken into the new "Twenty five is the new fifteen" era we life in. How the heck can you make such a life changing decision and be so sure?

This is from a 58 y/o pre-jurasiac dinosaur who twice experimented with transition in my early and mid twenties, and started experimenting again 5 years ago and still going. Perhaps it is from being a major target as a kid but to me success at passing is not being laughed at, pointed at, rocks thrown at, or far worse. My big Sanity Test I tell everyone who is unsure, is just spend some quality time in grocery store checkout lines Friday nights and Saturdays to see what REAL women look like. All shapes, all sizes, some petite, some line backers, some with plenty of facial hair, or more.

I am 6 ft tall, big boned, giant hands, even bigger feet, deep voice, and even almost bald. Not a whole lot of that changed physically between 25 and 55 beside a little less hair. Emotionally, spiritually, life lesson wise PLENTY. Though I still present male, nothing makes me feel more genuine then presenting female. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Most importantly I achieved the dream to become a for real person.

Life isn't, nor will it ever be perfect. Likely not even close to perfect. Life is hardship, life is adversity. Life is work, hard work. Life is as real as it gets. If I knew what I do know would I take that first ever Premarin again? NO. OK maybe no. I wish I was that wise back then. I don't wish I transitioned then. Five or six sure. Before I had a history. Before I was fully culturalized. Before all sorts of expectations were ingrained into my psyche. But I was only a really really big fat stuttering mouth breathing kid back then that felt I should have been born a girl.

well spoken

Hey worriers.

I started aged 25 and a half. I am having really good results so far. So long as you have a half decent base it is not a problem to start at this age and not have to worry about the things you guys are worrying about, so long as puberty was not overly cruel then you will not have lost out that much. I get it right, I had all the same worries as you and that feeling that if you had just done it a bit earlier like the real young transitioners now how great it would be. You know though, you can still do great, 25 is still really young, so is 26. Think how dumb you will feel if you wait another 5 or 10 years and really miss the young transition boat. If this is something you are sure you want, you should get on it.

Speaking of dinosaurs, I am "offended".  At 68 I am probably one of the oldest survivors here.  You know what? Many of you might suffer under the misapprehension that people of my age group suffer from a diminished capacity or belong in a wheel chair, being spoon fed in/at some rest home.  Well here is a news flash for ya.  Next week we, (my husband and I) are flying to Utah for some skiing.  We like Utah because the powder there is some of the driest and hopefully the deepest, as in 2-3 feet.  After the New Year, we are meeting the kids and grandkids for a month in Maui.  We have our own place there so I am looking for some warm "cozy time", along with the requisite scuba diving and body surfing in 80+ water.

So how did I get to be so "privileged"?  Well it really was not all that difficult.  I finished school, got a "good job", decided it did not pay nearly enough to satisfy my tastes and had too many "bosses" with too many "rules" at their disposal to "moderate" my behavior and inhibit my life.  So I quit.  I took care of those things in my life which were preventing me from living my life on my terms, and then got busy doing what I enjoyed doing the most, which was making obscene amounts of money.

Is this getting just a little too "strong" for you.  Well, I won't apologize because if you have a problem with my life and how I live it well, I guess that is your problem.  Not mine.  So lets back up a bit to this question of "Is their a big difference between age 21 or 25?"  In a nutshell NO.  But beyond that this is just another, (insert PC appropriate adjective here), question, like "are my tits too big/small?" or "how can I feel or have sex like a girl with a penis?" or "should I wear pink nail polish or red?"

I mean excuuu-uuuuse me for asking, but is this really the relevant question here.  Maybe a good question might be WTF am I doing, or pretending to do, or planning to do with the rest of my life?  Or something 'kinda "stupid"' or dumb or boring, like that.

Disclaimer:  The above rant was not in anyway intended to ffend or damage anyone's delicate sensibilities or violate any rules or TOS.

I have a problem with the abuse of power and authority in the name of "protecting" people from reality.

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 06:22:04 PM
I respect that Jill and I understand what your saying, and you are right, but I just feel really bad that I may have waited a measly couple years too long and TBH, I do want to be hot.  I feel like if I pass I'll be attractive, but I just don't know if I could pass.  Everything would just be easier for me if I passed, and I'd regret it if I didn't pass.  I guess pass or not, is 26, in most cases, too old to expect real soft tissue changes, etc?

No.  I'm 25 on one month HRT and I'm getting nice results already.  My friend who is 34 started a week before me and already could pass if she wanted.  Only thing she's waiting on is further development.  26 is a great age to start.  You'll have some boobs (albeit small) in a very short time.

Quote from: TheQuestion on December 03, 2014, 05:33:53 PM
I mean, I'm looking at photos and it seems the people who have real results, you know, people you'd think couldn't pass and then end up passing totally from HRT, seem to have started at 20-21 or younger.  Is there even a point in starting at 26, a few months from 27?  I mean, my HGH must be all but used up and I'm sure I've shut up shop for puberty in the last couple years.  I can be on HRT tomorrow, but I just don't know...

I just can't see having drastic results like some girls do and to be honest, I feel like I'd need drastic results.  I just can't see it at 26 and with a full on male skeleton.  At my age and weight it seems pretty unlikely that I'll have adequate changes.  I'm sure I'll get breast growth, but I'm also sure they'll end up being very underdeveloped and strangely shaped.  I can't see getting any fat on my butt or hips either.  I'd love to watch my face chance and my body as well, but I feel I'd have to weigh a lot for that to happen, enough that I'd look huge based off the weight alone and I just can't see how I could end up looking more feminine.

I don't really know what to do or even what I'm looking for in posting this, but is there a huge difference between starting at 20ish and starting at 26?  I'm pretty sure there is and I'm having a difficult time coming to terms with that.  On ->-bleeped-<- there's a girl who started at 20 and after 4 years has a totally different face and body.  She was skinny like myself, actually had a very similar built to me, until I grew a bit more that is.  She seems to have developed to around a d-cup.  I've read plenty saying that at 20 a female body is still achievable, but at 26 is it just kind of minor changes?  I just feel like there's no point.

Look up Sona Avedian on you tube she started at 32 I think it was 30 or 32, but she is smoking hot and she started ou as a huge frickin musle bound marine, there are several others that started older, and look HOT! Sona didn't look like she could ever passed, just have patients and let hrt work, you can achieve a female body, you just have to work at it. There are several excersises that will give you hips and a bum, just research and work at those excersises until you have the hips and but you want. I met a former body builder that transitioned, she was a big muscle bound Arnold lookin dude, now she is a shapely hot chick. you can do it!

I'm on HRT now, so I guess well see.  I'm just worried that I did in-fact get hit too hard during puberty, or more specifically, from about 19-23.  I'm 6'0" and generally run anywhere from 145-155, but you could stand someone next too me, same height and about 30lbs heavier and they'd likely look smaller then me.  I'm just worried about my bone structure.  I've seen Sona Avadian, and other "big dudes" transition into tiny women, but she was a tiny person with a lot of meat on her.  I'm a big person with not much meat on me.  I push about 1/8" of fat and I can feel my ribs.  I know I don't have a small frame lurking beneath.  Even with no weight on me at 6'0" my band is about 38", at best it could get to maybe 36".  I just worry my upper body construction and torso length is too long and big in comparison to my bottom half.  Sorry if I pissed anyone off, I'm just trying to make the best decision I can atm, and despite whether or not you think in similar ways, you're not me and don't fully understand the variables and risks I'm taking which are unique to my own life.  I'd have a hard time in not passing, some people don't have any issue with not passing or simply don't even want to.  I've always had social anxiety problems and not passing wouldn't make that any easier.  Plus a lot of other things.

Regardless, I'm on day one of HRT, so I guess I'll know soon whether or not I'm a good responder.  Sorry again if I aggravated anyone, but in my case, I just had to ask before making the final decision.

There is a big difference between looking 'hot' and being perceived as a woman.  I am sure that there are a lot of women here who will agree with me that 'HOT' is just a 'look', that can be put on or taken off like make-up or a 'hot dress' or shoes.

Quote from: Susan522 on December 05, 2014, 11:58:31 AM
There is a big difference between looking 'hot' and being perceived as a woman.  I am sure that there are a lot of women here who will agree with me that 'HOT' is just a 'look', that can be put on or taken off like make-up or a 'hot dress' or shoes.

I never really said that I'm doing this to be hot.  Would be nice, but I want good results because it's what I'd need to be perceived as a woman.  I can look pretty hot when wearing make-up already.  I can make my face look like a totally normal woman's face.  What I'm looking for is the ability to see a woman when I do take that make-up off.  I don't want to have to wear make-up all the time just to be seen as a woman.  I think you have it backwards in thinking that I associate good results with becoming "hot," when all I'm really saying is that I'm a pretty sturdily constructed 6'0" (despite being thin) and I'd need noticeable changes if I were ever going to be able to blend in realistically.

QuoteI think you have it backwards in thinking that I associate good results with becoming "hot," when all I'm really saying is that I'm a pretty sturdily constructed 6'0" (despite being thin) and I'd need noticeable changes if I were ever going to be able to blend in realistically.

OK.  I get that.  You described yourself as 6', 150lbs., sturdily built.  You are describing my body age 22, although I never quite reached 6'.  I too was quite wiry and in fact I played HS football.  I was fully masculinized with plenty of facial and body hair.  I was never 'bullied' and was easily able to function as a male in my world...except for that nagging reality that it was all a sham; a lie.  I knew that my behavior, my "presentation" was a lie.  Just a big fat lie.

The "changes" that you are looking for will come with time and the effects of HRT, but more importantly they will come as a result of your inner being, your "true self" being finally free of that manly persona that you struggle so hard to project to the world.  All the plastic surgery in the world will not change you, or "trans" you in a woman.

You might want to give a bit more thought into just how you see yourself living, earning a living, working, and loving.... as a woman.  The 'looks' which you seem so concerned about are frankly, just quite literally, only skin deep and will ultimately fade with age.

Quote from: Susan522 on December 05, 2014, 02:19:18 PM
OK.  I get that.  You described yourself as 6', 150lbs., sturdily built.  You are describing my body age 22, although I never quite reached 6'.  I too was quite wiry and in fact I played HS football.  I was fully masculinized with plenty of facial and body hair.  I was never 'bullied' and was easily able to function as a male in my world...except for that nagging reality that it was all a sham; a lie.  I knew that my behavior, my "presentation" was a lie.  Just a big fat lie.

The "changes" that you are looking for will come with time and the effects of HRT, but more importantly they will come as a result of your inner being, your "true self" being finally free of that manly persona that you struggle so hard to project to the world.  All the plastic surgery in the world will not change you, or "trans" you in a woman.

You might want to give a bit more thought into just how you see yourself living, earning a living, working, and loving.... as a woman.  The 'looks' which you seem so concerned about are frankly, just quite literally, only skin deep and will ultimately fade with age.

HS Football, huh?  I have no less then 30 trophies from baseball, basketball, track, soccer and karate.  I was a 2x MVP in baseball (I live in a big city and our league had hundreds and hundreds of kids), never missed an All-Star game, and disappointed college scouts when I decided to retire at 18.  I'm less bulky then I was then (probably bigger in bone construction though), but I'm still foolishly strong even for a man considerably bigger than me.  That was sort of my claim to fame is that I'm a freak athlete.  I use to race kids on bikes, and when I say I use to race kids on bikes, I mean I'd run a streets length and beat kids who were riding bikes.  My friends use to have a thing where they'd all jump on me and try and wrestle me to the ground, big kids (some bigger then me) who were also athletes mind you, and I'd just toss them off.  It use to take like 4-5 or more people to get me to the ground. 

The fact that I'm so athletic, and I've never worked out really, sort of bothers me.  I know there are strong women, but I'm sort of on another level in terms of natural strength, even more so then the majority of men, and people have noticed how unusually strong I am.  Part of me is scared that I'm so strong based off my skeletal structure and how it intertwines with my muscles, regardless of their size.  I just had someone tell me I should play Nighting or Daredevil in a movie.  It was like, WTF?  I'm getting told I should play superheroes at 6'0" and 147lbs?  Just sort of makes me worries that my body just won't allow me to pass.

Regardless, I'm on HRT right now and the more I think about not passing the more I want to stop.  Thing I'm taking away from this is that thinking about it isn't doing it and I'll never know unless I try.  So, I'm basically abandoning the topic.  I do appreciate you and everyone sort of trying to alleviate my concern though; thanks for that.

I don't think age is such a big deal. I'd say: genes and genetic talent.

Many people can play the piano, few can become classical concert pianists. The difference is usually small, such as better motor skills. Still, there is a difference. The best ones are being shown, while thousands will never make it to be a classical concert pianist no matter how much or how early they started to practice. So we only tend to see the lucky ones. It is the same on youtube. We only see the ones that were lucky. The thousands of non passing trans aren't visible as much, no matter the age.

A friend of mine had surgery on the age of 20, but still grew to a towering 6 foot 5, and she has stronger brow bossing than me, age 36. I have larger breasts than her. So age isn't defining, but the chances are that the younger you start the more luckier you can be to exploit genetic talent.

Quote from: Susan522 on December 05, 2014, 02:19:18 PM
The "changes" that you are looking for will come with time and the effects of HRT, but more importantly they will come as a result of your inner being, your "true self" being finally free of that manly persona that you struggle so hard to project to the world. 

Give me a BIG Amen Sister!

THAT is the absolute truth! I am practically bald, 6 ft tall big boned, barrel chested, yet when I look at myself in the mirror I see a woman. Even when I am naked. It has taken me a good 6 years now to only BEGIN to heal and ALLOW myself to feel and be myself.

Quote from: JoanneB on December 05, 2014, 06:56:16 PM
Give me a BIG Amen Sister!

Amen!!!  :D

Oi..things hare are starting to get a bit "my way is the right way". 

Listen, wanting to assimilate is by no means the only goal you should reach for.  Certainly, passibility does have many benefits, but I've personally concluded that I'm a lot happier if I am just honest with the people I trust wrt who I am.  I mean, yeah, being perceived as cis will help you a lot professionally, out in a harsh world.  But passing without question at all times can't be the only acceptable outcome...I'm betting some of the deepest stealt girls here still get clocked every once in a while, even if it's just in passing with a stranger who knows what to look for.  My point is that if assimilating is your highest goal here, then you need to reconsider what it is that you want.  A lot of people here have managed that; meanwhile, I've embraced being a part of the counterculture.

And wanting to be attractive...come on, who doesn't want to be attractive?  Perhaps it does fade, but it's possibly to be older and still look good.  I think beauty is something we all strive for as trans women (trans men too, in some cases) because we spend so much time obsessing over our bodies that we become fixated on the concept of beauty-for the same reason we tend to be a lot more feminine than cis women, at least starting out in many people I've met before. 

A final thought, all of the "perfect" trans girls you see on websites, and in youtube videos: Would you publish an unflattering photo of yourself online? Of course not!  The people on talk shows, on youtube videos, on websites-they're wearing makeup, having the camera at flattering angles, in good lighting...all of these different factors matter a lot when we're evaluating how well someone passes.  If you see a photo of Laverne Cox without makeup, or a head-to-toe pic of Janet Mock wearing something not so flattering in the shoulder region-you'll get what I'm saying.  This is why comparing yourself to others can be so dangerous.  Not because that comparison is a bad thing; it's just that people tend to play up their best selves!

Well, I admit that this adds an extra layer of difficulty...but if I ever have children, I plan on doing so while in a position where I will be able to provide for them without being stealth.  What works for you works for you, and obviously that you've chosen to take this route is perfectly fine if you're happy with it.  I was simply reminding everyone that there is more than one "right" way to do things, and I think it's very important when someone is facing something as scary as this to be exposed to a wide variety of perspectives. 

 I wasn't meaningto demean any one it just kinda hit me hard when people say if your a certain age that passing isn't a possibility, hearing that has kept me from going forward with transition,and I know we don't want to be gate keepers to anyone, obviously there are many different factors, but age is not one,
I am mostly self educated, which used to be a lofty goal by  the likes of several before the acent of institutional learning, I have studied human bone structure I depth avg shoulder width, height, shoe size, radius, femur, waist and seriously men and woman mostly are not that far off that it cant be negligible, many super models that are cis have broad shoulders and are 6 ft with size 10 feet,  my point being is people like Sona Avedian and several others that have transitioned would have been looked at and tol by others your to old and to muscular and masculine looking you will not pass or look good. She was 6ft tall and has broad shoulders, hrt is always a ymmv kinda thing but from research I have done you tend to lose height and even in some cases ligiments and other things tend to shrink in some also, so just because there is something you don't like about yourself does not mean it wont change even enough to make a difference. The truth is the more mainstream plastic surgery becomes the less it will costs and being passable is achievable it just may be harder for some than other. Any thing worth doing is usually hard, just don't use a blanket statement that if your not 10-18 you wont pass well. That kinda got me and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Wha...you're absolutely good!  I mean, to be fair, she had a TON of plastic surgery and I doubt most of us will ever be able to afford such things, but you didn't say anything at all that offended me personally.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on December 06, 2014, 02:17:42 AM
Wha...you're absolutely good!  I mean, to be fair, she had a TON of plastic surgery and I doubt most of us will ever be able to afford such things, but you didn't say anything at all that offended me personally.

Thanks and I have to say of the pics I have seen of you you are pretty. I remember you telling me a while ago things you didn't like but you look good.
from what I have read of Sona, all she had was breast implants. I may be wrong, I don't think she had ffs. I just have seen a sort of accidental gatekeeping in a lot of forums because of the whole age debate, I just think that its a you don't know until you try, and knowing what you don like in comparison to logic. Like dysphoria makes us dislike things that probably aren't as big a deal breaker but because of our dysphoria with ourselves we tend to nitpick. Like having size 10 feet isn't the end all of passing, so maybe we just have to pick our shoes more carefully, but if you have size 14 feet you might have a problem logically, still not a reason not to transition, but I being a logic driven person have to say that the whole if your past 18 your screwed debate is a dead horse, hormones are getting better, more people are getting work done and the price is coming down on plastic. The truth is a lot of our unemployed or cant work and plastic may be off the table, but I know some good looking women who transitioned at 30 that look hot, and there is nothing wrong with trying to find your own hotness or saying someone is "hot", And age doesn't mean you wont pass, nor does t mean you will need a lot of surgery. There are so many different factors, I honestly don't think age is, for some it is, if your 60 you cant reverse time and medical issues may prevent you from taking the required amount of hrt to change, but certainly 30 or 36 or 40 isn't to late to pass. A person had to look at there own features LOGICALLY and plan accordingly, if you have a leno chin, or Charleton Heston jaw, you might have to start saving for ffs. Or a Matt Damon fore head you might need brow work. I am lucky enough that I have a pretty narrow face when I am skinny, I kinda think I have some medical things going on from birth have worked in my favor, and if I knew what I know now I would already be transitioned, I know foresight, Im just saying can we work on the misconception that 26 is too late because I know how bad I fealt thinking I had feet that were to big, I am to old, I just don't want others to be unhappy because they think they are to old or there hands or feet or whatever.

So, for those who think being a lil older makes it impossible to be accepted(I hate the term "passing" as it makes things seem more like your being tested and your not), Take a good look at my Avatar pic. It's 3 months old. In fact, here's the full photo:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaBLi0qw.jpg&hash=418143d8ac948893eb12268929ceb48eaf559adb)

I "pass" every day without thinking about it, not even one teensy iota. I'm more concerned with things like: "do I have enough gas to do the things I need to do," or, "Did I forget something." I'm only at my 1 year mark of hrt but my male fail was 6 years ago and I've been full time since way back then and off and on before that. How old am I?

Well, I just celebrated my 15th anniversary of my 35th birthday. If your not into the math that means I just turned 50! Soooooo, IMHO your never ever too old to be who you are.
I still rock a mini summer dress or mini skirt, and other skimpy outfits I wear sometimes, and I'm told by many I only look like I'm in my mid 30's. Hey I live in Florida where most of the year it's too hot for unnecessary clothing, lol!

Don't get me wrong and please don't misunderstand this post. My only points here are to help the OP and any others realize worrying about your age with regard to transition is moot. Yes, some things are easier if you can transition younger. However we unfortunately can't turn back the clock. So it does not do you any good worrying your too old. As someone else posted: If you wait over worry in a few years you'll be 30 wondering if 30 is too old for transition. Unfortunately the dysphoria only gets progressively worse as you get older.

Anyhoo, I hope this post helps some. :)
Best wishes :icon_bunch:
Ally :icon_flower: