Susan's Place Transgender Resources

(I hope this is the right group for it; I couldn't find one that seemed more appropriate.)

I'm thinking of getting electrolysis, as the first step in a maybe-transition.  I know nothing about what is involved.  I once asked at our local TG support group on one of the rare times when some M2Fs showed up, but didn't get much help.  Can anyone here fill me in?

Some questions:

•   Does it hurt?
  
  
•   What actually happens during a session?
  
  
•   How many sessions does it typically take to eliminate beard and mustache hair?
  
  
•   How often and how long are sessions typically?
  
  
•   Are electrolysis places likely to have a problem with a man wanting to remove facial hair.  That is, how important is it to find a TG-friendly one?  FWIW, I'm in the NYC (USA) area.
  
  
•   What does it typically cost?  (Mainly: how many digits are we talking about, in USD?)
  

Are there questions I should be asking that I didn't?

Currently, I have a beard and (small) mustache, but shave my neck.  My thought is that I'd start with the neck hair and gradually reduce the area with beard hair.  I haven't considered laser because they say you need to have dark hair and mine is gray/white.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM
(I hope this is the right group for it; I couldn't find one that seemed more appropriate.)

•   Does it hurt?
  
•   What actually happens during a session?

Yes, it hurts. They are sticking a needle in your hair follicle and zapping it. There are ways to minimize the pain, and some areas aren't bad. But some areas bring tears to my eye like the upper lip. Things that help with pain. Drink lots of water the day before and of electrolysis. Stay away from caffein 24 hours prior to electrolysis (reduces bleeding and pain.) Use Emla cream (requires a prescription fro doctor and HRT doctor will be more than happy to prescribe it.) Take 2 Advil 45 minutes prior to electrolysis session.

Quote

•   How many sessions does it typically take to eliminate beard and mustache hair?

It really depends on how much hair you have. So it's a YMMV type of thing. It can take 1-2 (even 3) years of weekly hour sessions. If you can do laser that will shorten it. I had 60% dark hair and that cut mine time to a little more than a year. Mine wasn't that thick (Irish and Cherokee Indian ancestry.) If you Italian (Mediterranean decent) it will take longer.

I was able to go full time with hardly any shadow after 4 moths of electrolysis and 3 laser sessions.

Quote

•   How often and how long are sessions typically?

Typically an hour long, but sometimes you can do 1 1/2 hours or 2 hours

Quote

•   Are electrolysis places likely to have a problem with a man wanting to remove facial hair.  That is, how important is it to find a TG-friendly one?  FWIW, I'm in the NYC (USA) area.

Look to see if there is a transgender friendly electrologists in your area. Many times Yelp will have a review and I've seen TG friendly listed. I live just right across the water in NJ and I got to NYC (just a quick PATH train ride) to my electrologists who is also transgender. I go to Affordable Permanent Electrolysis at 201 West 21st Street in Chelsea. Shelly (the owner) is great and her number is (212) 633-1503. Also in the Callen-Lorde Transgender Resource Guide (http://callen-lorde.org/graphics/2012/03/NYC-Metro-TGNC-Resources_Updated-9_12_2013.pdf) there are several others listed. BTW, Shelly uses the galvanic method and is very skilled with it.

Shelly does give a free no obligation 15 minute trial session so you know what it feels like.

Quote

•   What does it typically cost?  (Mainly: how many digits are we talking about, in USD?)

$75/hour

QuoteAre there questions I should be asking that I didn't?

Currently, I have a beard and (small) mustache, but shave my neck.  My thought is that I'd start with the neck hair and gradually reduce the area with beard hair.  I haven't considered laser because they say you need to have dark hair and mine is gray/white.

Typically they start on the upper face and clear that area then work their way down and up on the neck to make it look natural, as it changes. You will have to shave you beard and mustache and let it grow about 2-3 days (longer if you on HRT) so the length of the hair is optimum for electrolysis.

Does it hurt? Oh wow, yes it does. Especially the upper and lower lip, but numbing cream can help. Not every hair hurts as much as the other, some barely at all, some excruciating but most are midway. Some of it will depend on the skill and experience (number of hours the tech has worked).

What happens? Depends on the method - there is thermolysis, galvanic and blend (bit of both). I can really only comment on galvanic as that is what I use. You shouldn't shave for at least two days, the tech needs to have long enough hair to be able to see the follicles and remove the hair. You lie down on your back. The tech sterilises your face. I have my eyes covered, they use rather bright lights so the covering keeps that out. And away they go... galvanic typically is a multi probe process. I have 32 probes, one probe is inserted into follicle (that's usually the bit that hurts) and left in there for about a minute. You need to be holding onto a metal thingy that helps close the circuit, it kills the follicle by alkalising the root, the probe is removed and hair is then plucked out (painless). Then it's onto the next set of 32. My tech usually starts with 32, removes and reinserts the first 16, then removes and reinserts the next 16, etc. it's a long tedious process, but it is effective and hairs do not grow back.

How long? For galvanic it can be between 150-200 hours depending on how thick and extensive the beard is. I'm hoping mine will be about 130, have done about 85 hours, started over a year ago.

How often? The skin needs time to heal. Typically you shouldn't shave for two to three days afterwards to avoid scarring (by knocking off the micro scabs) or infection. It's good to use alcohol swabs on your face for a couple of days afterwards. So you could do them every week if you were keen. I've generally done them every two weeks but sometimes take a break for a month or more. Sessions can range from one to three hours. Generally they should start with one hour sessions so you can get used to it. Longer sessions are more cost effective. I've done two three hour sessions on the same day, that was quite a marathon. Yeesh, only did it twice. The first five hours were easy compared to the sixth! Usually I chat with the tech the whole time, really helps the time to fly!

Discrimination? I can't imagine you'd have trouble finding a trans friendly clinic in NYC. Use Google. I'd look for a place that does electro as part of their core business not just some corner beautician. The latter may say they've had years of experience, but that might only be a few hours a month on old ladies wanting a few hairs in their mo removed. My electro in Sydney does it all day, every day, all year. You should be asking them what method they use and how much experience in hours their techs have had.

Cost? Mucho dollars. I don't know about the US but I pay about $450AU for three hours. Yep, it really hurts the purse too!

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM
(I hope this is the right group for it; I couldn't find one that seemed more appropriate.)

I'm thinking of getting electrolysis, as the first step in a maybe-transition.  I know nothing about what is involved.  I once asked at our local TG support group on one of the rare times when some M2Fs showed up, but didn't get much help.  Can anyone here fill me in?

Some questions:

•   Does it hurt?
  

Yes. Like a needle prick each time they zap a hair.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM

•   What actually happens during a session?
  

I lie down on the table and she sticks a probe into each hair folicle one at a time, every few seconds. I feel the sting and she uses a tiny tweezer-like instrument to pull the hair out of my face. That's really all it is.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM

•   How many sessions does it typically take to eliminate beard and mustache hair?
  

Not clear and YMMV and all that. For me, I've been at it 2 hours a week for a year, and probably only halfway done. And that was AFTER laser took out the dark hairs.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM

•   How often and how long are sessions typically?
  

Most people seem to do an hour a week. I do two hours a week.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM

•   Are electrolysis places likely to have a problem with a man wanting to remove facial hair.  That is, how important is it to find a TG-friendly one?  FWIW, I'm in the NYC (USA) area.
  

I've been told that not all electrologists are adept at removing male hair. My person has made a career of serving us. I've seen one other electrologist and she also had a number of trans women as clients.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM

•   What does it typically cost?  (Mainly: how many digits are we talking about, in USD?)
  

I pay $150 for a 2 hour session.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM[/list]
Are there questions I should be asking that I didn't?

No. It's pretty straightforward.

Quote from: Asche on January 10, 2015, 02:08:54 PM

Currently, I have a beard and (small) mustache, but shave my neck.  My thought is that I'd start with the neck hair and gradually reduce the area with beard hair.  I haven't considered laser because they say you need to have dark hair and mine is gray/white.

I'd agree. Laser seems to work much better for the dark hairs.

Wow $600 a month? That's ridiculous.

Quote from: Curious on January 14, 2015, 03:00:49 PM
Wow $600 a month? That's ridiculous.

True that. Got an alternative?

I went for a consult, a couple of weeks ago, for laser and electrolysis. I was thinking of starting something before I start HRT. The 'quote' was $7500 for full body and face and face treatment. It could be paid in two payments. I guess I will be waiting awhile! I will continue to have my 'full body waxes, and see how HRT affects hair growth.

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on January 10, 2015, 03:10:53 PM
I go to Affordable Permanent Electrolysis at 201 West 21st Street in Chelsea. Shelly (the owner) is great and her number is (212) 633-1503. Also in the Callen-Lorde Transgender Resource Guide (http://callen-lorde.org/graphics/2012/03/NYC-Metro-TGNC-Resources_Updated-9_12_2013.pdf) there are several others listed. BTW, Shelly uses the galvanic method and is very skilled with it.

Shelly uses thermolysis (short wave), not galvanic.

Going to see her this afternoon. It's been over a week and I'm scruffy and miserable.

So I might be considering laser to speed things up. I just wish my face would hurry up and clear up already. The regrowth is extremely annoying.

Quote from: Curious on January 14, 2015, 03:00:49 PM
Wow $600 a month? That's ridiculous.

Hair removal is expensive. Probably one of the more expensive parts of transition.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 15, 2015, 09:36:52 AM
Shelly uses thermolysis (short wave), not galvanic.

Going to see her this afternoon. It's been over a week and I'm scruffy and miserable.

So I might be considering laser to speed things up. I just wish my face would hurry up and clear up already. The regrowth is extremely annoying.

Just saw her this morning (my usual Thursday 8am slot), I prefer thermolysis over blend as long as it's someone that is extremely skilled (like Shelly). Even though blend has a better kill rate, it's 4 times slower since the probe has to stay on the hair follicle longer. Long term, thermolysis is cheaper than blend for full beard removal.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 15, 2015, 09:38:41 AM
Hair removal is expensive. Probably one of the more expensive parts of transition.

More than some FFS surgeries when you add it all up, but less than SRS. At least the costs are spread over time.

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 14, 2015, 03:54:17 PM
True that. Got an alternative?

Not really.... You can always take a class, and buy your own machine. But, that would still need years of practice to perfect the technique. Electrolysis is almost an art, if not one.

 I have actually fallen asleep when my electrologist is doing my cheeks.  The upper lip makes me cry just thinking about it.

Quote from: Stevie on January 22, 2015, 09:50:23 PM
I have actually fallen asleep when my electrologist is doing my cheeks.  The upper lip makes me cry just thinking about it.

Same here. Cheeks are no problem. Chin is slightly more problematic. Upper lip has me in tears about 15 minutes in. I get 45 minute sessions so she'll do about 22 minutes per side, starting at the corner of the mouth and working up. As she gets closer to the nose it gets more painful, the EMLA cream has worn off on that side, and I'm tearing up so bad she'll stop and wipe them off now and then. I'm typically pretty emotional the rest of the night after a session on the upper lip.

I've been getting electro since July last year.

I have been having Galvanic for 3 years, with 2 operators going at once.  Not a candidate for laser.  The first 2 years was very regular (weekly for most) and the 3rd year every 3 weeks or so.  Now I gowhenever I feel like it for an hour or so.  I have stopped caring too much since nothing is all that visible.  Cost has been around $20K Aussie.  About the same as my FFS but more than GRS is going to cost.  Facial hair removal is up there with the majors and shouldn't be underestimated.  As the those who have gone before say all the time...start yesterday!

One other thing about skin care.  As Grace said, keep your skin very clean afterwards and keeps your hands away.  I switched to an electric razor years ago.  I do not believe blades should be near our faces ever and more so once you start electro.

Quote from: EmmaD on January 30, 2015, 05:06:26 PM
I have been having Galvanic for 3 years, with 2 operators going at once.  Not a candidate for laser.  The first 2 years was very regular (weekly for most) and the 3rd year every 3 weeks or so.  Now I gowhenever I feel like it for an hour or so.  I have stopped caring too much since nothing is all that visible.  Cost has been around $20K Aussie.  About the same as my FFS but more than GRS is going to cost.  Facial hair removal is up there with the majors and shouldn't be underestimated.  As the those who have gone before say all the time...start yesterday!

One other thing about skin care.  As Grace said, keep your skin very clean afterwards and keeps your hands away.  I switched to an electric razor years ago.  I do not believe blades should be near our faces ever and more so once you start electro.

I never feel nice and smooth using an electric and I've had a high quality razor. I always felt stubbly which aggravated me to no end.

Quote from: Wynternight on January 30, 2015, 05:37:06 PM
I never feel nice and smooth using an electric and I've had a high quality razor. I always felt stubbly which aggravated me to no end.

Good point.  I just lived with it BUT I was not full time until it was done and not really part-time until there weren't many dark hairs left.  Also, I am a bit older and much of my facial hair was grey, white or light brown so any shadow wasn't very noticeable

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 15, 2015, 09:38:41 AM
Hair removal is expensive. Probably one of the more expensive parts of transition.

Sadly, I have to agree.  Because hair removal with laser is now the most common technique, in some cities (like mine) there are now few places still offering electrolysis,  it's costly.  My budget for hair removal exceeds my budget for GRS.  Isn't that crazy?

As an aside, the Austrialian and US Dollar prices given here are broadly in line with what I'm paying in Euros in Madrid.

I'm starting some laser next week. Electrolysis is just soooo sloowwww. I'm hoping I can knock out a good bit and finish up with electro.

I would definitely agree with the recommendation to try laser if it'll work for you to get rid of as much as you can. I've done 7 months of laser and have now beard shadow and only a few dark hairs remaining. The rest of the hair it's light hairs. I'm starting electrolysis this weekend and so won't be shaving on Friday and Saturday, so I'll get a really good idea of what's left after 7 months of laser. But I've decided to now move to electrolysis.

Cost in Perth, Watern Australia is  AU$110 per half hour. There's not many places, in fact I think two that I could find. One referred to me as a man, lol, so decided not to go there. The other sounds lovely with 23yrs experience so looking forward to Saturday.

Bree xx

Yay for necroposting!

Looking for the TG friendly ones in Perth Au, and I'm having less success than I'd like- I KNOW there are peeps here who do it, but it's a secret society  8)
BreezyB?
The only one I've found is in Joondalup/Cottesloe and I haven't got the courage yet to phone- I've sent many unanswered emails to many studios (including Joondalup) and am starting to wonder. Anyone had any experience with 'Skin Dynamics' ?

There is a place in Chicago that uses sedation, two people working on you at once for 8+ hours at a time.  Each session is $3030.  Yes three grand.  They told me to expect 3 to 5 sessions to get to a place I would be happy with.  Sessions are a few months apart.

They also said most clients have been on hormones for a while since that can reduce facial hair

Reading all the comments, I come to the conclusion that it will cost a fortune anyway.
Blond, red and already gray hairs are no good starting point for laser treatment, so I really consider this Intensive electrolysis program (http://2pass.eu/hair/intensive-electrolysis-program-for-clearing-of-facial-hair/) in Europe.

8k Euro and after 6 months and it's over....compaired to 100 Euro / Hour her in Vienna.