Susan's Place Transgender Resources

She wants to know exactly what I spoke about with my therapist and I've told her all other things, but she knows there's something more. But this isn't gentle pressing; this is more like threatening and blaming me that my anger and mental illness is the problem in this family.  I almost blurted it out.  Then I cried, yelling I'm not ready.   

She is so angry with me.  I don't know what I'm afraid of since she's already furious with me.   I guess I'm afraid that as soon as I come out, she's going to tell everyone.  Or she's not going to believe me.  Or she's going to find someone to blame like my therapists or my dad.  Or she's going to make our probable divorce as hellish as possible.

She keeps saying our marriage is basically over, but when I agree with her, she gets defensive acting like I'm the one bringing it up just to hurt her and our daughter.

I don't want to hurt anyone anymore.  I don't feel suicidal, but I just don't want to hurt anyone and I don't want to hurt anymore.

I'm so sorry. IMO it's unfair to ask someone, even a spouse, what they're talking about in therapy unless they make it clear that they want to talk about it.

I think it's a good thing you held back from blurting it out. I would think that if you can possibly find a time when things are calmer, that would be a better time to come out, assuming you want to. Given what you've written here, though, I wonder whether or not that'd be a good idea. I don't think an already hostile and angry situation is going to be improved by bringing this issue into it.

Hi ChiGirl,

You did the right thing, you have to do this on your time.  As many therapists will say it's not a race.  When you do tell her you might first want to start by explaining how hard this is and why you didn't tell her right away.  The way many in society view transgender people, it shouldn't surprise anyone that transgender people are very cautious about coming out to others, even love ones.

Good luck,
Paige :)

I'd say tell her. The more she guesses the more her imagination can run wild.

I don't know if you'll be pleasantly surprised but atleast you'll get it out the way.

How worried about your wife outing you are you? I will say from expierence thst my wife did just that after telling her....she wasn't trying to be mean she was trying to be supporting I guess but she didn't understand how big of a deal outing someone can be. Though at least now after we split she refers to me properly as a woman.

Just my opinion, but check w/ a divorce lawyer first.  In some states (like the one I live in) coming out/providing proof that you are trans* can mean an at-fault divorce according to which judge presides, which is very bad financially for the trans* person who 'caused' it be being trans*.   >:(   

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I've really been in distress the last 24 hours.  She's blaming my father for my problems.  Without coming out to her, it's hard to argue specifics on why it is not about him.

I'm not going to come out yet.  Things are too fragile and chaotic.

Chris, very good advice.  I've already talked to a divorce lawyer, but I wasn't sure about bringing up the trans issue.  I've already put in a call and I'm waiting to hear back.

Hikari (or is it just Kari?)  I am VERY worried about her outing me.  I feel like if I tell her, that means I'm coming out to the world.  And it won't be because she means well.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 21, 2015, 11:56:16 AM
I'd say tell her. The more she guesses the more her imagination can run wild.

I don't know if you'll be pleasantly surprised but at least you'll get it out the way.

I'm inclined to agree.  My poor spouse's imagination ran extremely wild - affairs, god knows what else.  Turns out when she found out I was trans, she was like, "Oh, is that all?"

If you're headed for divorce anyway, at least try to save the marriage by admitting what's wrong.  What if you get divorced, then she finds out afterwards that you're trans (which she will, no matter how hard you try), and she tells you that she wouldn't have cared; that it was the secrecy and suspicion that ruined the relationship, not who you were?

If a divorce seems plausible, I would definitely talk to a trusted lawyer (!?) before letting this out, for exactly the reasons already posted. I donn't think there's a rush to tell anyone, and it could seriously be to your legal detriment.

I would not come out to someone I thought was likely to be hostile unless I had a very clear and specific reason for doing so.

I'm not sure I even want to save this marriage anymore.  I can't live with someone who's constantly hurling insults and blaming me for everything wrong with her life.  And if I'm such a bitch to her, why on earth does she want to stay with me?

(She actually did call me a bitch today.  Little did she know I took that as a compliment[emoji12].)

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 21, 2015, 03:27:03 PM
Hikari (or is it just Kari?)  I am VERY worried about her outing me.  I feel like if I tell her, that means I'm coming out to the world.  And it won't be because she means well.

Hikari means light in Japanese, the name is Vera actually, either Hikari or Vera works :P

I really wanted to control who I came out to and when. but once I told my wife, it did all fall apart....My advice is to try and own it if at all possible. If I could do it all myself, I would probably try and create a positive narrative related to my gender transition. Once it got out of my hands my ability to control how I was seen by others because diminished dramatically. I have been able to do good, and lost no one important in my life due to transition, but it wasn't easy.

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 21, 2015, 09:05:32 PM
I'm not sure I even want to save this marriage anymore.  I can't live with someone who's constantly hurling insults and blaming me for everything wrong with her life.  And if I'm such a bitch to her, why on earth does she want to stay with me?

(She actually did call me a bitch today.  Little did she know I took that as a compliment[emoji12].)

Was it this way before the whole trans thing came to a head? If not, it may just be temporary.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 04:48:12 AM
Was it this way before the whole trans thing came to a head? If not, it may just be temporary.

Oh, yes.  Very much so.  Things have been going downhill for years.  She started questioning my love for her years ago and it just got worse.  She was accusing me of affairs and threatening divorce which used to scare the bejeebees out of me. All this before my trans issues came to a head. 

I've been in therapy for 14 years now, doing everything I can to curb this depression.  Everything except admitting to my gender dysphoria.

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 22, 2015, 06:06:01 AM
I've been in therapy for 14 years now, doing everything I can to curb this depression.  Everything except admitting to my gender dysphoria.

Even to the therapist?

When I first started with therapy a few years ago I was depressed. In hindsight I was chronically depressed  for decades. I had also come to a place and time in my life when I finally realized I was, and most importantly why. How I was not handling being trans. Transition of any sort was the last thing on my radar. Been there tried it twice long ago. (Also Wife #1 divorced me after discovering my stash) I needed new tools, a new way of thinking, and had plenty of baggage to unload.

Now that I am seeing a gender therapist my wife will occasionally press me on what we talked about. I know she needs to know. She has fears of an unknown future just as I do. Our marriage was far from our ideal before I took on the trans-beast. Things have improved greatly as I became healthier. We still have our problems, mostly different ones nowadays as the old age together we envisioned is looking a lot different.

Quote from: JoanneB on January 22, 2015, 06:51:39 AM
Even to the therapist?

Yep.  I wasn't being honest with myself.  And when I first started seeing a therapist, I genuinely didn't think it was the problem.  I thought I was fine with it.  It was in my past and I was doing just fine.  There must be another reason for my depression.  It was only in the last year that I told my therapist about my gender dysphoria and even then I felt like it was something it was too late to do anything about.  So this bring honest with myself is fairly new. 

My therapists often came to the conclusion that was my wife was to blame for my depression and I refused to accept that because I knew I was depressed going into the marriage.  I left a number of therapists because of it.  And I guess I did start to blame her,but for the depression.  For knowing how to push my buttons and set me off.  I hate it and I hate myself.  I became like some sort of raving lunatic.

Now, I've figured out some inner calm by being honest with myself.  Now, I hate that feel like I'm lying to her, holding back this huge piece of myself.  I want to be honest, but she is so angry with me now.  It's just such a hostile situation and she's blaming me for everything.  I've told her I was wrong for blaming her, but she doesn't care. 

Thanks for listening.

At the time, 6 years ago, when I knew I needed to take on the trans beast for real, my wife and I were starting a long distance marriage. I lost a job, got a job several states away, was alone, isolated, and waaaaaay too much time to myself. I reached out for help, eventually finding a TG support group. The first meeting (my first one ever in my life) totally floored me. The following month the same result.

My marriage at the time was not all that well. Add to that a chronically ill, often depressed, sometimes suicidal wife seeing no hope for her future. Not the sort of person you want to drop the T-Bomb on. Being open and honest was not exactly my forte. Yet I knew I by that time I needed to, but couldn't. By my third meeting I knew I needed to be there, that I belonged there, and that my wife absolutely needed to know before it was way past too late to tell.

It was a difficult weekend back home. When I first said "We need to talk later" she instantly went into "You want a divorce, don't you?" mode. She didn't see the T-Bomb coming, yet she handled it surprisingly well.

I knew I told her just in time. Any longer and things likely would not have gone as well.

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 22, 2015, 06:06:01 AM

Oh, yes.  Very much so.  Things have been going downhill for years.  She started questioning my love for her years ago and it just got worse.  She was accusing me of affairs and threatening divorce which used to scare the bejeebees out of me. All this before my trans issues came to a head. 

I've been in therapy for 14 years now, doing everything I can to curb this depression.  Everything except admitting to my gender dysphoria.

Well then in my not so professional opinion these are your choices.

Don't tell her, she continues to speculate and emotionally abuse you and you continue to be miserable, perhaps permanently. I won't even say what else could happen. She may or may not leave. She may or may not change her attitude toward you, but if you're hiding stuff from her it only fuels the distrust. Your dysphoria is along for the ride with you possibly for life.

Tell her and she may either leave you or accept you. If she accepts she may have the same attitude toward you and you may leave. Or she may change her attitude. But you can live with yourself.

I am married. I took a chance. I couldn't go on living as I was. She may or may not leave but I'm prepared either way. The fights about transition more or less stopped. We may have a disagreement now and again but it's not nearly as bad as when I first came out.

That's how I see it.

Omigod omigod omigod.  I told her.  It wasn't the way I wanted to tell her and I felt pressed into it, but I told her.  She didn't walk out.  She didn't call me crazy.  She didn't laugh at me.  Okay, she laughed but it was nervous laughter.

Everyone here gave me awesome advice and I took all of it to heart Thank you.  I guess I figured with her ready to walk out, I had nothing left to lose.

I don't know how much she understands.  I think she thinks it's something good that can be treated or even cured.  But it's a start.  I feel a weight has been lifted.

Good luck!

I'm really happy that she took it in what sounds like as good a way as was likely. Now that the air is clear, I really hope that you are able to work out something positive from this.

And, I think she's 2/3 right from your last paragraph: this is something good that can be treated IMO.... but maybe not in the way she imagines!

:)

Good on you!

Give her some time and let her sit on it for a while. Remember this has been with you for a long time and she's just learning about it.

She may be in shock, or it may finally "click" with her why you are the way you are.

Let her ask questions and be honest. If full transition is what you're after, don't be shy to say so. But let her know it's not anything wrong with her, rather it's you revealing your true identity. It took a while for my wife to "get" that but she's coming around. She still isn't completely happy but we aren't taking about divorce anymore.

Either way what you did just did wonders for your life and well being. Good luck!

Thanks, Kate.  She sure is in shock.  Last night, she entered the betrayal stage.  She was furious and confused as to why I had lied to her for so long.  I said I understood that.  I reminded that I was lying to myself as well, but I didn't want to lie anymore.  I gave her some basic reading material.  I don't want to overwhelm her.  She says she's going to help me and stick with me, but I don't think knows what that might mean in the long run.  We're going to meet with my therapist and discuss things. 

Quote from: jeni on January 22, 2015, 06:30:22 PM

And, I think she's 2/3 right from your last paragraph: this is something good that can be treated IMO.... but maybe not in the way she imagines!

:)

I think you're right.  What's odd is that I didn't intend to write "good."  I didn't even realize it was there until after I posted.  But maybe it might be good for us.  At least she now understands a lot of my behavior over the years. 

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 23, 2015, 08:20:58 AM
I think you're right.  What's odd is that I didn't intend to write "good."  I didn't even realize it was there until after I posted.  But maybe it might be good for us.  At least she now understands a lot of my behavior over the years.

Funny, and I think you're right. Since it sounds like she's taking this news rather reasonably, I think it can only help you to understand each other. I think it'd be hard to imagine that anyone who just came out as trans was still hiding her "real problem."  ;D

Which is funny in a sad kind of way, because one of the most amazing realizations I've had is that this is not a problem I have. The only reason that I sometimes feel negative about it is because so much of the rest of the world has a problem tolerating people who break the neat system of pigeonholes. I feel amazingly lucky to have the life that I've had and I can't wait for what's next!

Anyway, good luck. I withdraw my earlier advice to wait on coming out, because it sounds like you really did the right thing. Good job.

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 23, 2015, 08:17:58 AM
Thanks, Kate.  She sure is in shock.  Last night, she entered the betrayal stage.  She was furious and confused as to why I had lied to her for so long.  I said I understood that.  I reminded that I was lying to myself as well, but I didn't want to lie anymore.  I gave her some basic reading material.  I don't want to overwhelm her.  She says she's going to help me and stick with me, but I don't think knows what that might mean in the long run.  We're going to meet with my therapist and discuss things.

Been there, done that. I got the B word over and over and over and over. I also got a heaping, steaming helping of "I married a man" and "I am not a lesbian" over and over.

Just give it some time before you know where she really stands.

I don't mean to give you false hope as many, if not most marriages do not survive transition, but you may be pleasantly surprised.

As for treatment first she suggested a psychiatrist. I told her, "ok cool, I'll see one but I'm 99% sure we'll get the same end result." She suggested hypnosis and I told her that it won't work and besides conversion therapy is banned in NJ.

Not for nothing (don't mean to brag) I am one smart cookie and I am armed with lots of information about everything I am doing. Also if I'm hell bent on something I will get it.

Don't be a jerk about it though.

Quote from: Brenda E on January 21, 2015, 04:43:10 PM
I'm inclined to agree.  My poor spouse's imagination ran extremely wild - affairs, god knows what else.  Turns out when she found out I was trans, she was like, "Oh, is that all?"

That was exactly my experience too about 9 years ago.  At the time my wife was giving me utter hell over crossdressing driving me to the brink of wanting to die.  Finally,, I told her I was transsexual all my life and explained what that was.  (that was not easy at all).

I think she was relieved and anyway sfopped the extreme accusations and arguments.  The truth is often easier to handle than the imagination.


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I try to imagine the situation in reverse. If id been in a serious relationship with someone for a long time, and theyd been getting increasingly unhappy and distant, possibly for years. Eventually they tell me whats wrong. I think if Id devoted 20 or 30 years of my young life to that person only for them to reveal their relationship with me had been lies and a cover for their transexualism... wow. the strength of wives who stick by their mtf partners is astonishing to me. Id be out that door and gone.

Quote from: alexbb on January 23, 2015, 01:19:45 PM
only for them to reveal their relationship with me had been lies and a cover for their transexualism...

I don't like this characterization, although I can understand how someone might believe this was the case. I know that for me, and I suspect I'm not alone, I've never lied or covered anything up. I simply didn't understand something about myself. In retrospect, I understand my behavior to have been suppressing feelings or avoiding asking myself difficult questions, but that's quite different from lying.

That's not to say I can't understand how someone on the receiving end of a coming out might see things this way, nor do I think it is unfair to exit a relationship after a change like this.

Fair enough! That was in retrospect very insensitive of me.

No worries, a lot of the topics on this forum are really hard to discuss without slipping up and saying something that can be taken the wrong way.

I guess I do feel like I lied to her.   She certainly feels that way, and I'm trying to own it.  I was in complete denial and supression.  I thought I went through a conversion therapy that worked!   So as far as I was concerned, it was a part of my past I was ashamed of and never wanted to think about or acknowledge ever again.

I really want to move forward at this point, but my wife won't.  I know she needs to absorb all this, but she's never been good at letting go of the past and forgetting the bad stuff.  This?  This is huge.  She will never let me forget it. 

Well, it's been almost two days since I told her.  She is mad and not talking to me.  All she thinks about is how I lied to her all these years.  And I did.  I don't expect her to forgive me.

I just don't think she really understands this.  She got mad at me saying I came out to her.  "You're not gay! That's what coming out means!"  I think she really thinks this can be cured or suppressed. And I'm at the point where I feel like it's transition or die.  If I have to go back to living as a man, I'll just not care about myself.  I don't want that to happen.

i already put my foot in it so im hesitant to poke it in again BUT from my experience so far, where youre at now is the worst part. Its the most conflicted upsetting time for you and those around you. Maybe take time out from eachother. me and my gf went through this and it was awful. we broke up, and didnt talk for a while, but we're friends now. im not saying i know what youre going through but i have a small feeling for it. and it was the worst time. since then, things have got better and better. there is no going back, theres nothing behind us but scorched rubble. but in front... in front is possiblity! no more denial, no more deceit, youll feel like  complete person. a person with problems, but a person with the energy and resolve to fix them. i felt in coming out like my life had jumped the tracks from the dark bleak future that i was going toward onto a new path, curving away to ???. it feels incredible. i wish you the very best. im just starting out too, and there are lots of us here also just starting, we can do it together!
xx alex

Oh go ahead poke it in, Alex.  [emoji1]
Thanks.

Okay, I read that again and now it sounds dirty to me.

hahahaha i didnt realise till you said it hahaha

Nobody has to read this or respond.  I just need somewhere to say this and I don't have anybody in rl to talk to. 

I know my wife needs time, but she keeps flipping on what she wants from me.  This morning she has asked to prove I love her by coming out to my family... today.  Or she's leaving.   Then she asked me to go back into the closet for another 20 years.  Heck, I did it once, I can do it again.  She keeps calling it a sexual thing, and when I try an explain, she yells at me to stop lecturing her.

I know she's hurting.  I'm not asking for her to forgive me or even to accept it.  I just want the freedom to be me.  And I can't do that with her.  I want to ask her if she'd rather have a dead husband or a living ex, but I feel that's over the line.  But it's the truth.  I can't live like this anymore.  I'm not suicidal, but if I have to go backwards, I have little reason to do anything.  It's all I can do to keep myself from running to MickeyD's and eating a double quarter pounder.

I know offering unsolicited advice specially as someone only a month since coming out must be annoying, but
Maybe book in to see your doctor, it really helped me to think of this as a medical issue not a wierd sexual abberation which made me a terrible doomed person. As soon as I did that it really stopped the vice turning on my brain and releasing that pressure helped me think straight. Stopped me snapping at people. She also gave me some diazepam which I used once or twice and it really calms the anxiety/panic. After a while, just having it in my drawer helped calm me, knowing it was there if i needed it. now i just keep the prescription pinned to my office wall, so its there, just in case. It helped me think clearly about my life and future. She also helped refer me to a gender clinic which im waiting on now.

Coming out to everyone helped too. No thats an understatement. It stopped me kiling myself. I guess ive become a bit of an evngelist for it, because it stops you suffering in silence. in fact, it stopped 95% of my suffering. These days im impatient to get laser hair removal and hrt and ffs and srs and.. but it makes every day seem sooooooo much happier. They say about LGBT people, the longer you stay in the closet the crazier you get. I was definitely going crazy! I dont feel crazy now. I must be, going out in a dress, but I dont feel it. Feel good all the way down for the first time since i was 3 or 4. There used to be a pit of dread under my mind, spoiling every pleasure, making every small problem worse, cutting me off from friends, family and joy. and it wouldnt take much for me to fall into that abyss. Now its gone. Or its outside t least. Inside, i dont feel like i have an irreperable flaw running through my soul anymore. Im on my side. Please consider just telling everyone and letting the chips fal where they may, instead of suffering in silence. A lot of my fams said 'i wish we'd known, we had no idea but if wed known we would have supported you because we love you.'
my 2c on that matter.

Im speculating but perhaps there is a similar support network to Susans for the wives of TG people that your wife might benefit from? Somewhere for her to talk to people in the same boat, blow off steam, learn, and be supported? Just an idea.
And hey, maybe you deserve a nice bit of comfort food once in a while. Maybe make it a fillet o fish with extra cheese extra pickle (my favourite). Maybe pick one up for her too? And if it weighs on your conscience make sure you run a bit further than normal to burn it off!
OK /terrible advice
You can do this. Itll be so much better in the end. We are with you.
xxx alex

Thank you Alex.  Advice is always welcome.  I do feel like I'm going crazy, but for once it's not the dysphoria. 

My reading of this very tough situation is that you are always on the back foot with her, she sounds very unpredictable and, to be honest, rather scary. It's understandable she will be in shock from your revelation but it's no excuse for threats, accusations, intimidation and ultimatums. She needs her own therapist methinks. You said several posts ago that you weren't even sure you wanted to stay in the marriage, I'd consider getting on the front foot here and plan for that eventuality. Make it clear to her you aren't going to stand by and be abused, maybe suggest that a trial separation might be useful for both of you to test the water. Some people have been in terrible marriages and it wasn't until they were free from it that they realised how much it was suffocating them.

See thats proper advice! I hope my noobish drivel helps a bit but this above is the real stuff.

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 24, 2015, 11:49:52 AM
Well, it's been almost two days since I told her.  She is mad and not talking to me.  All she thinks about is how I lied to her all these years.  And I did.  I don't expect her to forgive me.

I just don't think she really understands this.  She got mad at me saying I came out to her.  "You're not gay! That's what coming out means!"  I think she really thinks this can be cured or suppressed. And I'm at the point where I feel like it's transition or die.  If I have to go back to living as a man, I'll just not care about myself.  I don't want that to happen.

I'm really sorry that you're having to go through such a difficult situation.  Having just recently came out to my ex-spouse I know how emotionally rocky it can get.  Her and I were working on getting back together.  We've both said we still loved each other and that whatever happened to cause our separation and divorce was the wrong answer.  We have two small children together and it's made it much harder with me being so far away (thousands of miles).

I randomly outed myself to her a few nights ago.  She had almost the exact same reaction as your spouse.  "Why didn't you tell me?", "I don't even know you.", "Why have you lied to me for so long?", it went on and on until eventually she stated, "I don't want to know you or for you to be involved in my life anymore.  I'm moving on."  It was the worst case scenario and it hurt tremendously.  It's made me have doubts about transitioning and like I need to rewind back to that night before I said anything and duct tape my mouth shut.

She made it all about her instead of attempting to be supportive and it's been like this since I've known her.  Although it hurts something terrible, she is or was the love of my life, it has opened my eyes to the type of person she really is and I deserve better.  What is so incredibly unfortunate about all of it is that it's made me go back into an in-denial, fear of rejection and loss mode that has made me question, yet again, my motives and feelings regarding all of it.

And that's exactly where my therapist will come into play hardcore.  Since you're already speaking to a therapist I would definitely speak to him or her about everything and get the help you need to navigate through all of this, whether the final outcome includes her or not, for your own piece of mind.

If it is any consolation it has taken my wife about 5 years to really get over her sense of betrayal. For over 30 years I was "just a CD" untill the T-Bomb got dropped. She still isn't thrilled, nor cares too much for the direction things are going with me, but is no longer upset over the "Why".

Can't wait to see what develops for "Bargaining". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model)

Thanks, Joanne and Nikki.  I don't expect her to get over this right away.  I'm not that crazy, but I would like us to try and work on it.  All she wants to do is yell and scream and blame.  I would like her to talk to some people who could actually help, but she doesn't "believe" in therapists.  Like they're leprechauns or something.

I'm no angel.  My GD has turned my depression into anger and I've gone off on fits of rage.  I've broken things in the house.  I've scared my wife and daughter.  I hate myself for it.  But I feel every time I've tried to atone, she decides that's the time to remind me of awful I am.  And the cycle starts again.  My family wants nothing to do with her.  She wants me to cut out my family entirely.  I am stuck.  I am getting to the point I'm willing to give up any custody of my daughter just to be free of my wife, but I guess that's what keeps me going. I love my daughter.

Thanks again for listening.  I really need to find a local support group so I stop all yall. [emoji13]

My wife has said she will stand by my side and help me through this. BUT, she firmly believes I am a man and that I know it.  She will help me feel like a man.  In fact, she thinks my therapist is making me think this way.

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not.

I do community therapy and as part of that have access to professional therapists with vast experience for guidance.

They made the comment that for couples they need to talk to the couple together and separately. Even for wives that appear to be accepting when speaking as a couple they usually revert to referring to their partner with male pronouns when talked to alone.

Most relationships fail. Some of course succeed.

I would plan for the worse and hope for the best.

Many transwomen in divorce settings end up giving much more away than they legally need to, from some sort of 'guilt' feeling.

Do remember if the worst happens you will need money etc to support your life, it is not your fault that you are trans* and very few transwomen go into a marriage with any desire to hurt their partner. Indeed most go into the relationship in some hope that they will be 'cured' from being trans*. Or that their transgender character appears later in life.

It is a very tough situation for all concerned and my heart goes out to all involved.

Thanks, Cindy.  It's all very helpful.

I never expected the marriage to survive.  At this point, I think it's better we separate, but my wife refuses.  She won't get a divorce and now appears to be attempting to "cure" me. 

I understand her anger.  She's given up a lot for me, but she's given up things she never needed to give up or things I didn't want her to give up.  She selfless, but sometimes to the point of trying to be a martyr.

Thank you for listening. [emoji18]

Well, my wife snapped.  She spent our therapy session (technically mine that she demanded to go with to) screaming at me that I'm a man, I've always been a man, and I will die a man.  Then she twice threatened to kill herself if I thought about transitioning. 

I cracked.  I told her I choose her and I would work on my feelings.  I told her I was worried I would come to resent her, but she swore she would work to not let that happen. 

Less than a day later, I already resent her.  I am so angry that she is so manipulative to pull this on me.  She has problems that go beyond our marriage, but she won't accept that.  SHE'S fine.  I'M the one with mental illness. 

I don't know what to do.  If I go backwards at all, I don't know if I can live with myself.  I'm still exercising and eating right, but if I can't be who I am, I don't feel it's worth it.

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 31, 2015, 09:54:22 AM
Well, my wife snapped.  She spent our therapy session (technically mine that she demanded to go with to) screaming at me that I'm a man, I've always been a man, and I will die a man.  Then she twice threatened to kill herself if I thought about transitioning. 

I cracked.  I told her I choose her and I would work on my feelings.  I told her I was worried I would come to resent her, but she swore she would work to not let that happen. 

Less than a day later, I already resent her.  I am so angry that she is so manipulative to pull this on me.  She has problems that go beyond our marriage, but she won't accept that.  SHE'S fine.  I'M the one with mental illness. 

I don't know what to do.  If I go backwards at all, I don't know if I can live with myself.  I'm still exercising and eating right, but if I can't be who I am, I don't feel it's worth it.

Hi ChiGirl,

What did your therapist say while all this was going on?

Life definitely isn't easy sometimes.
Hope it starts to get better,
Paige :)

Thanks, Paige.

My therapist knew she was a handful, but I don't think he expected this.  He was concerned for our safety, but more importantly our daughter's safety.  He made me come up with an action plan if either one of us trues to hurt ourselves.

She also kept screaming about my taking hormones making it sound like that's all I talked about.  I brought it up once among other things that would be needed if I transitioned.

No doubt she is using emotional blackmail to manipulate you. No doubt that you feel like you do now. I feel so sorry for you both. I cannot imagine how badly you must be feeling for your daughter. This must really really hurt.

It might just be a case of too much too fast for her. Too much might even be TMI. You seem unsure as to what path you are going to wind up on. Uncertainties may be feeding her anxieties. I'd also try to stop that equating HRT with transitioning.

Transition, is to change. Something you want to do, need to do. Change does not have to mean blow it all up and start all over again. I've been on HRT for 5 years now. I still present male. I changed a TON. Like you said, the depression leads to anger. One of the few emotions men know and are allowed to feel. Hell encouraged to feel! Just the other day I had a "WTF am I doing???" meltdown after my TG group meeting.  The pain of dealing with the dysphoria often seems much more intense then it ever was. I don't like feeling pain, feeling depressed, feeling like a failure, etc.. But then I got to thinking. I FEEL. I actually feel an entire spectrum of emotions now from great joy (the previous evening) to profound sadness (that morning). I can enjoy the beauty and wonder of the world around me.

All entirely new to me. I am a beginner. A mere emotional infant. I don't have 50 years of driving experience with these. But you know.... as much as it all scares me, as painful as falling down is, it beats the crap out of being the walking dead I was.

My wife has also seen these changes in me. She has accepted that transition, embraces it, encourages it. It took time for her to notice but she has. I know.... the situation for us is not yours. But, still pretty bad with the absolute chance of her committing suicide, between dealing with me, me and trans, and her health issues.

If you can, keep up the work on your emotional health. I went through a ton of different self-help books favoring the ones that fit my philosophies on life, yet alternate ones were good to explore too. A for real gender therapist is especially important if you are not actively working towards a full-time transition, rather trying to figure out how to manage life as it is now.

So by her definition you are not actively "transitioning". In fact you are, in truth, sorting out how to manage being male.

God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The Courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference.

Thank you, Joanne.  Wise words.  Yeah, probably tmi.  She wanted honesty and now look where that got us. 

I have to look at this as a journey, not a destination.  I want to be a better person.  I think just admitting to myself has done a great deal for my self-esteem.  It's going to take time. 

You gals are just so awesome.  I always feel better coming here.

Hang in there ChiGirl, this storm too shall pass.  Now that you've embraced your true self, the rest will come in its own time. 
Hugs

-Alana

Hi ChiGirl, I'm sorry for all of this. This is so tough and really hard for a person. Here I'm just worried about losing a few friends in the process, when that's very insignificant to someone like you, who has a daughter and a wife. Losing a family is one of the hardest things I could imagine.

The hard part here is trying to get your wife to understand, which is likely that she probably never will. She's a regular cis woman. She can only think female thoughts, it's how her mind works. Where as we have the female thoughts but the body of a men. It's nearly impossible to show the difference. They simply just won't get it.

One of my friends dad is a mtf transgender. The wife understood kind of where he was coming from but said she could not live as a lesbian. She meant them no disrespect, but she said it would never work. So they ended up splitting. I can really only see this happening to you in the near future, which is unfortunate. Your wife might not fully understand the whole word of being transgender and perhaps she's too afraid of losing you.

I would ask her how she feels. Ask if the reason she feels that you are a man is because she's afraid losing you or ruining the marriage. maybe she's worried of the effects it'll have on the daughter. This is where the therapist won't be able to help. She needs to understand the truths of life. You need to have a one on one conversation. Get out everything you can on each persons opinions. If she says it's all a lie or whatever bs she can think of tell her its over. Tell her you want to be happy, and if that means splitting up then it's the only solution. I don't want to play the hands of fate here, but if she can not accept you for you, then the time for moving on has come.

Best of luck friend, you can talk to me anytime. I'm here for you

Marty (Sammi)

Thanks, Marty/Sammi  (do you have a preference?)

First, don't be sorry.  We all have our problems we face and I never want to compare my suffering to others.  Truth is once I get past this problem, a lot opens up for me.  I have finances and family on my side.  Even if the worst happened and I couldn't see my daughter, she'll be 18 in a few years, and will have the choice to be in my life or not.  I hate feeling like I'm complaining.  I'm just so stumped on how to handle my wife, apart from just divorcing her straight out.

I know what she's feeling.  She doesn't want to be alone.  She does love me, but she's more driven by this fear of being alone. 

Thanks so much for your thoughts. 

Quote from: ChiGirl on February 01, 2015, 04:59:24 PM
Thanks, Marty/Sammi  (do you have a preference?)

For now it's Marty, until I can truly start living. Someday down the road (Hopefully soon) I'll be ready for Sammi ;) She's a bit too wild for even me right now lol. No preferences, Whatever you feel is better :)

Well now that we understand its the fear that's causing all of this, I hope you'll be able to figure it out. Losing someone who's been so important in your life, has to be among the tops for pain and suffering. I wish there was more we could do for you other than just giving advice. We've got your back through all of this.

Do the best that you can.

RANT ALERT!  BE WARNED!  POSSIBLE TW!  SORRY!

I don't know what I'm going to do.  My wife has told me in no uncertain terms that she will kill herself if I even consider transition.  She expects us to grow old together and if we don't, and once our daughter goes away to college, she will have nothing and she will kill herself.  It feels more like manipulation than a genuine threat, but I gave told her, and I meant it, that if I cannot at least consider transition down the road and I have to go backwards and live as a man completely, I will go back to my old habits and probably eat myself to death. 

I know it's only been 3 weeks and I've been dealing with this for 35 years.  She needs time.  But I also know my wife.  She holds on to grudges.  She's mad at people for insulting her but she can't even remember what they said, only that she felt insulated.

I see my therapist in a few hours and she's supposed to see someone tonight.  But I feel like everything will still be the same tomorrow.  I just want to get away from her but I am afraid what she'll do.  Hurt me?  Hurt herself?  Out me on Facebook?  She's threatened all three.  I'm ready to check myself into the hospital to have time away.  That is how messed up this all is. 

Gosh that's terrible. I wish there was more I could do to help you. If she's threatening herself with suicide, It might be best to put life on hold until you can get her stable again. We don't want anything bad to happen to her or you. This is now getting serious. You guys need to see a doctor or a therapist now.

I'm sorry for your struggles. You got lots of family and friends here for comfort.

Hi ChiGirl,

Three years ago I began my journey to my authentic self.  I was not taking hormones, nor was I in therapy, I was reading all I could find and trying to locate myself under all the fat.  Running and walking and biking and diet have made a huge difference, and for me was necessary before I entered the psychic space to transition.  Still my wife pulled most of the manipulative strategies you describe.  We began couples therapy and I was screamed at, my gender identity denied, and one night I was assaulted.  The insistence that I had mislead her and the description of me as a betrayer of her trust  Had me questioning both my motives and my integrity.

All those behaviors were fear driven, and I bought into her issues for most of a year.  She was certain that she would be laughed at as the spouse of a transexual freak.  She was afraid that her future would be alone, that my decision to transition was crazy,  that I would never be accepted as a woman and that she would always be a victim of my search for self.  She is not a victim, and her fears need not be mine.  I did not mislead, nor did I betray.  I lived with the best understanding that I could muster at the time.  The betrayal portrayed was to choose life over continued sadness and depression.  That is not betrayal, that is survival.

I've been on HRT for thirty months, living full time for eight.  We are separated and the divorce will be complete sometime over the next few months. 

She is still alive and beginning to even treat me with courtesy.  She will never use my name, she will never call me by my gender.  But that is not my issue.  I am no longer invested in her rage, hurt, perception of betrayal or anything else.  It all passes, it is her burden and no longer mine.  You are not mentally ill.  You are a soul seeking yourself.  Keep seeking.

Living authentically is a pilgrimage to self.  Like all odysseys it has many detours and may change in nature or scope as it goes along.  There is no one path, there are no fixed milestones.  For most of us this is not a choice, it is existential.  For decades I felt lonely, angry, different and afraid.  I knew for sure that I was either wrong, bad, or crazy.  Those were all lies.  I live a lovely beautiful life. 

Transition has cost me much of my family and nearly a half million dollars.  So it goes.  I am the woman, friend, lover, person that I have always dreamed of being.  I am sixty-two years old and finally finding the voice of the girl within.  She is kind, honest, and she is me.

You will find yourself, trust it and walk through the fear.  You have help here, you have yourself to discover.

Peace,
Julie

Wow.  Thank you, Julie.  I feel for your pain and sadness.  I hope I can summon that courage for myself and truly be the woman I know I am.

Thank you to everyone who has listened to my ranting and raving.

Quote from: ChiGirl on February 06, 2015, 02:18:06 PM
Wow.  Thank you, Julie.  I feel for your pain and sadness.  I hope I can summon that courage for myself and truly be the woman I know I am.

Thank you to everyone who has listened to my ranting and raving.

You can, you have integrity, you have love.  Those are the two necessary ingredients to blend with infinite patience to seek yourself.

Wishing you Fair Winds,
Julie

Quote from: ChiGirl on February 06, 2015, 10:30:15 AM
RANT ALERT!  BE WARNED!  POSSIBLE TW!  SORRY!

I don't know what I'm going to do.  My wife has told me in no uncertain terms that she will kill herself if I even consider transition.  She expects us to grow old together and if we don't, and once our daughter goes away to college, she will have nothing and she will kill herself.  It feels more like manipulation than a genuine threat, but I gave told her, and I meant it, that if I cannot at least consider transition down the road and I have to go backwards and live as a man completely, I will go back to my old habits and probably eat myself to death. 

I know it's only been 3 weeks and I've been dealing with this for 35 years.  She needs time.  But I also know my wife.  She holds on to grudges.  She's mad at people for insulting her but she can't even remember what they said, only that she felt insulated.

I see my therapist in a few hours and she's supposed to see someone tonight.  But I feel like everything will still be the same tomorrow.  I just want to get away from her but I am afraid what she'll do.  Hurt me?  Hurt herself?  Out me on Facebook?  She's threatened all three.  I'm ready to check myself into the hospital to have time away.  That is how messed up this all is.

TRIGGER ANSWER

I'm not sure if you know this. But a response many help line people and psychiatrists use when someone uses the threat of suicide to manipulate people is to say.

"If that is your choice then you should do so. You have free will."

"She spent our therapy session (technically mine that she demanded to go with to) screaming at me that I'm a man, I've always been a man, and I will die a man.  Then she twice threatened to kill herself if I thought about transitioning. 

I cracked.  I told her I choose her and I would work on my feelings.  I told her I was worried I would come to resent her, but she swore she would work to not let that happen.

My wife has told me in no uncertain terms that she will kill herself if I even consider transition.  "

Ditch the bitch. Even if you werent going through tradition she sounds toxic. Your kids will be happy in the long run because you will be happy doing what you have to do. Theyll admire your guts. i would.

"So it goes.  I am the woman, friend, lover, person that I have always dreamed of being.  I am sixty-two years old and finally finding the voice of the girl within.  She is kind, honest, and she is me."

Bingo. im sure any kids would much prefer super happy loving supportive woman Dad to sad depressed upset current Dad. when they have troubles theyll need you to be on form. you owe it to yourself and them. all the best! xx

I feel so bad for you Chi-Girl. My wife is such a major part of who I am. A lot because I would not have achieved the spirituality I have, the love of life, nor the wonderful ways of looking at the world that I do without her as a shinning example of what it is to be a real person.

You say she needs time. Let's say that is absolutely true and in time she may come around. If you are a member of the "Transition or Die" club, time is not something you really have to spare. Since you are willing to go back to that "Through the shear force of will I can survive as a male" mode that sort of temporarily excludes you from that club.

So now we have, She needs time, and You have time. To me "Transition" is simply "To Change". Change for me was from the chronically depressed, soulless, lifeless thing I was into something resembling a for real person, whoever or whatever that was. Unlearning 50 years of unhealthy ways to look and think about myself takes time. After 6 years I am still working at it. Changing how you think of yourself, changing how you see the world around you, changing how you experience the world around you takes time. Changing how you treat yourself, from substance abuse, negative self talk, over-everything in that fruitless search for a moment or two of feeling alive, takes time. Changing so that you feel you really really do DESERVE TO BE HAPPY, can take a lot of time.

All those may not require wearing a dress. For me being all that while presenting as female just moves me from the feeling 90% genuine to 100% bar. 90% is far better then -20%, which is where I was, if not lower.

Thanks, Joanne.  I actually do consider myself part of the "Transition or Die" Club and I've made it clear to her.  Unfortunately, she's got her own club: "Stay with me or I die."  It's scary.  I don't feel I have much time, but I know I've got a lot of weight to lose and hair to remove before I even start hormones. 

The weird thing is she's taken a huge turn.  She spoke with a therapist yesterday and he encouraged her to take me shopping for some clothes and makeup to wear at home.  At first she screamed at me for the ride home.  Then she took at 180. She wanted to buy something.  She wants me to be happy.  However, I do know this is coming from the fear of losing me.  If it helps her through it and I move closer to transition, I'm all for it.

Any movement towards your goal is good.

My wife has often said "I did not marry a woman." etc.. As my emotional health improved she has also said she cannot imagine being able to live with anyone else.

I am really sorry to hear this, that is a really terrible situation.

IMO, "if you leave I will kill myself" is not a reason to stay with someone whom you would otherwise separate from. It's like a tantrum from a four year old. You will not fix anything by acquiescing to the demand. Especially if your spidey sense is telling you it's manipulation---you are probably right.

Keep doing your thing.  Show her your getting better with your transition, that the grass is greener on your side, so come and play over there;)

My wife and I were in close to the same boat.  I just told her it's my turn after 20 years of her and our son.  I don't wear dresses,  but about every other thing is done except srs which I've done something different and doubt srs..  but we go out to eat 2x a week at new places, we go shopping together.   I play equal.  I buy me at bra, and her one too.  We have always saved our pennies, last week was the first time she ever got a bra over 5bucks.  And yes 30 bras are still cheap, but alot better than $5 ones;)  we got our ears pierced, hers grew shut after 20 years.  I ordered a variety of nice studs for now.  I do metal working and plan on making pure gold jewelry as a hobby...  I made this cute trasgender symbol that will be remade out of silver and gold inlay..
It's my bday tomorrow,  40:(  but rounding up to 25!  We are going up to this town Ruidoso tomorrow to go shopping if all works out.  Hope to set us up w dual massages!
Basically I'm showing her I want to start over, but want her always with me.  If she can see nothing bad will come of it and these are our golden years, then it's going to work out!

You have kids still, just show her nothing will change.  Nobody who matters cares as long as your happy!  I've dumped a few people overboard already, but they were dead weight.  Over the years, I did more for them than they for me, so it was better to dump them.. 
Only family member who has a problem is my little brother.  He supposedly found god with his 3rd wife and 5th kid, so he thinks he can tell me what todo while he is begging for money..  I have been messing with his religion and homophobic tendencies, he will be seeing the light soon;)  if not, it's his loss.  He doesn't even know I buy his kids xmas and birthday presents while he is just lucky new mexico doesn't extradite him for child support..  opps, I think I have issues with him;)  but you get my gist..  don't give up, show its a better you.  Hopefully she doesn't have messed up morals, usually a god involved, but she will come around..  not picking on religion,  but I thought god supposedly loved everyone.  It's sad how people can distort a once good thing!
Good luck..  hopefully you got her a good gift today, and some nooky tonight;)

Thank you.  I am so conflicted right now.  I'm solid on my desire and need to transition.  But I don't know what to do with my family.

My wife has started to come around a little.  We made an agreement that I would not engage in any "gender issues" outside the house for 6 months.  Therapy is fine and maybe I can dress at home soon, but that's it.  For her part, she has to stop picking fights and stop with the insults.  All I had planned for now beyond losing weight was hair removal.  I'm nervous about waiting to start, but if it helps us, okay.

My wife is slowly coming around, but my teen daughter is not.  She's mad at my wife for "giving into me."  So my wife asked me to cut my hair yesterday for our daughter.  It wasn't that long, so I did it, but since then my GD has spiraled out of control.  It helped though that my wife actually bought me a pair of panties for Valentine's Day.  It was a huge step for her and meant so much to me.  But then she was upset I didn't buy her something sexy.  I feel stupid, but I also feel like I can't do anything right with her. 

I look to the future and I think we want different things.  She wants to grow together and have her husband take care of her.  I think she believes us getting through this means I don't transition.  She originally asked for 3 years before I do anything regarding transition.  I told I couldn't wait that long. 

I feel do guilty about wanting to leave.  I really feel like I won't be able to transition while we're together.  I know she needs me, but I'm not strong enough for the both of us.  She's driven away my family.  They're supportive of me, but they want nothing to do with her.  I feel like I've lost my friends trying to make her happy.  And I can't make her happy.  But now I have the chance to make myself happy, but it's at the expense of my wife's mental health.

I don't know how to leave.

Do you really want to leave?  Here's the part where from what she's saying,  she wants a man.  Women can be manly.  Is your gender thing going to make you completely helpless?  I lost my balls over a year ago, but not my spirit!  Be that man she wants in just taking charge..  take her out tomorrow if today didn't make her happy.  Feb 14th is just a day made up by Hershey to make money..  you can celebrate my bday tomorrow;)  but your daughter doesn't like your changes?  Tough, who makes the money, I bet as just being her parents you already embarrass her..  kids are just that way..  if you gotta cut your hair, then go all the way a while and shave it with a razor and use Rogaine on it, so the day you let it grow it is perfect.  I bet a bald drug dealing, axe murdering hairstyle may change their minds and let you grow it out..  be the man!  Either they work with you or give them boot camp!  Your daughter is a teen, she will be gone soon, but not really gone..  hopefully she goes to college,  gets that first lesbian experience out of the way and comes home and is on your side!
Now as for your wife, are you wanting a life with her.  Or were you a real man, did the right thing and just was there for the kids.  If so, I salute you too..  but this you need to know..  I don't see you answer here.  You already know the answer..
As for compromise, ever thought of subtle changes..  wear sweatpants of pastels and bright colors.  You may not get the full woman yet, but what's wrong with gender neutral to just start easing into the roll..  she wants a man to take care of her.  Show her you can be whoever you want and still that in charge person..  but upon writing this I do remember she wants whoever to take care of her and in charge..  soo, is that what you want to when you transition?   Both of you cannot play the weak roll.  2 can play the dominant roll, but I don't see that here..  be honest, do you want a man or woman to sweep you off your feet, you cook and clean while they work or is it the other way around..  2 people cooking and cleaning is a wife's dream, but who's making the dough and hard decisions?   I may sound like a male pig, but you already told us what your wife expects, I'm trying to tell you how to fill the roll if you wanna stay with her.  I'm not a therapist, I'm tired of them telling me what todo..  I'm telling you what I'm doing, and in my case it's working just fine! 
My wife doesn't want a lesbian lover.  I will still be the same man to her.  Just slowly transition into my part and play the dominant roll.  If down the line I'm not enough for her, I will give her more options.  I never have plans to cheat or leave her.  But the door is always open for her to leave and come back if she needs to see if there is better..  these are my plans.  It may hurt a little, but I see no other options.. Now what are yours;)  pm me if you wanna chat more someday. 

My wife just tried to commit suicide.  I had to take her to the ER.  I am so scared.  She told me she couldn't live without me.   She didn't take enough pills to do any real damage, but she's going to be admitted.  I feel like this my fault.  I know it's not, but I dumped this huge thing on her while she's dealing enough other garbage.  I don't want to hurt her.  I don't want to hurt my daughter.  I just have to be strong for her. 

Oh god, that is so horrible, I am so so sorry. Thank goodness she will be ok, and that you were able to help her to the ER. I have no words, except that this is not your fault. :-( Please be strong.

Thank you.

This isn't your fault. I don't know what to say except I'll say a prayer for you and pray for things to get better for you. My thoughts are with you.

As others have said, this is NOT your fault, any more than being trans is your fault.

Still, I'm sure this is shocking and painful, and my heart goes out to you...

Thank you, Eveline, Melanie, and Jeni.  And everyone else.  She's stabilized and alert.  Her parents and our daughter think she's here because she collapsed.  She's not in the psych ward (which I have mixed feelings about), but she's in a secure ward with a sitter all night. 

I could look at this crisis as an opportunity to ensure she gets the help she needs that I cannot provide her, but I feel that it's not and it's going to end up being brushed off.  I just to be strong for my daughter right now.  She is so scared mom won't be home, and she's still pretty pissed at me after my coming out. 

It's nice to know I have this place to come to and talk if I need it.  And right now, I NEED it.

I feel pretty bad about what i said re ditching the bitch, im sorry!
i hope this turns out alright. xxx

I am so sorry to hear this news. I won't bother with "It's not your fault". My wife has often been suicidal due to her chronic pain. I held off a dropping the T-Bomb on her because she was totally on the edge. Even today she has her bouts.

And through it all, I can not help but to think, to know, that It Is My Fault. Perhaps not all of it, certainly a good part of it. Like what sort of a future can she look forward to? She doesn't want to be married to a woman. Certainly is not having the life she desired. Now all this crap from me, Her Rock. Ole Reliable.  At the very least, if it weren't for all the extra crap I dumped on her, dealing with the other stuff would be far easier. She'd have Something to look forward to.

Be strong, for yourself, for her, for your daughter. You know what you need to do for yourself. You know being there for those you love is not mutually exclusive with being there for yourself.

Quote from: alexbb on February 18, 2015, 08:04:09 PM
I feel pretty bad about what i said re ditching the bitch, im sorry!
i hope this turns out alright. xxx

Thanks!  I forgot you said that and that made me laugh.  I needed that. [emoji5]

UPDATE: She is spending her 2nd night in the hospital, but she hasn't officially been admitted to the psych ward.  She's been in a secure ward with a "sitter."  She's barely talked to a doctor, but we're hoping to get some answers tomorrow.  If she has to stay, she needs to be somewhere she's actually getting help, not just stuck in a room all day.  She's blaming me for being in there.  No surprise.  She needs help that I can't give her.  And it makes me realize I need to leave this marriage sooner than later.  She's so terrified of being alone, she's ready to kill herself. 

UPDATE: She's out and we're setting her up with an outpatient program.  Thanks to everyone for their wishes and prayers.

Bit of a baptism of fire but sounds like you made it! kept it together and handled it all well. youve gotta feel proud about that. leadership achievement unlocked. its clearly going to be tough, but youre clearly tougher. becoming a woman isnt for the weak it takes BALLS! hehe! this was where it all turned a corner toward somewhere new and good.
later on, a few months or years from now, when your wife is cheerfully doing her own thing, happy to no longer in a failing marriage, and you guys are getting on as friends, and youre well into your transition and loving it, and things are generally going great, kids are overjoyed with their reinvigorated new woman Dad and stuff, and all the things you used to like you still like only with real bright feelings not muted ones, and youre in charge and every day is full of promise and joy, and its summer, it will all be super worth it.

Thank you, Alex.  I really needed to hear that.  I really really hope you're right.  This has made it clear that I have to leave.  She starts outpatient care on Tuesday where she'll be in all day care, but come home at night.  This is going to help her get through and learn to cope.

And we like to call them "ladyballs" or "Thatchers".  Maybe next year we can rename them "Hilaries."

oh I like that!!!

how it going ah?

Well... She's in an outpatient day program for therapy.  So that's going to help.  But on Monday, I told her that I didn't know if we have a future together.  I'll always be there for our daughter and I'll always be her friend, but I can't be the husband she wants or needs me to be.  I told her I thought separation would be best.

She's mad and scared.  She's begging me to stay.  I've told her I'm not rushing out the door and we can take time to work on things and give her time to adjust.  At this point, I think she's willing to say or do anything to get me to stay.  She said she won't mind being married to a woman.  I think about staying long term, but then little things happen that make me realize that I can't. 

She keeps telling me I'm only looking back at all the bad things, but I tell her that all those bad things have added up to create the way I feel now.  There's a lot of good stuff, but in the last few years, the good stuff is far and few between.  You can only threaten divorce and question someone's love so many times before that person has had it.  And I've had it.

I know she needs to get some stability in her life, but I'm not the one who's going to create that stability for her.  She needs to do it on her own.  And I don't feel like it's fair to either of us to stay in a loveless relationship just for the sake of... staying?

Thanks for asking.

I feel like I'm backwards of so many married transwomen.  I keep reading how they're trying to save their marriages and here I am, ready to separate from her despite the fact that she is working so hard to be accepting.  It's tough.  I care about her, but I don't love her anymore.  I haven't in a while.  I also feel like her supporting me will actually keep hinder my transition.  She's come a long way in 7 weeks, but I never know when she's going to breakdown again.  Plus, she thinks she's the only one who supports me when my whole family supports me.  She doesn't see it, but I do.  Maybe I'm just being selfish.

It's perfectly understandable, you want to get on with being who you really are and you feel she's holding you back.  That said, if you can get her to accept a reasonable timeline, maybe not starting HRT in the next month but within the year or even 6 months (say as an example).  I'd say, even if you feel like you don't love her, that you ought to consider it.  In the scheme of things a few months here or there won't make that much of a difference, as the complete process takes about 5 to 10 years.  Just consider you're getting a Phd in Femininity.  The fact is you'll always be linked to her, as least by your daughter but also by the years you two put into your relationship.  I wish you the best, it's a hard road, take some time and think it over.  Even pray about it, if that's who you are.  The more intouch you are with your true self and inner feelings, these choices will become clearer. 
Hugs,

-Alana 

Everyone's story is different. The reason to work to save your marriage is because you want to save it. Whether anyone else wants to save her or his own marriage is irrelevant.

I can't tell you what you should do, but now is a very emotional and difficult time for both of you. I don't believe her behavior was at all reasonable, but people do make irrational decisions when faced with stress. If you can safely put off making a permanent decision about your marriage, maybe that would be an option. Even if you're certain that you're done with the relationship, as Alana points out, there is not a hurry to put it permanently in the past.

But it's hard. There is no comfortable path here. In contrast to the above, sometimes it's better to pull off  the band-aid and get it over with.

Thank you, Alana & Jeni.  Wise words.  I'm definitely not rushing to end it.  We're working on things and this summer will be the big decision time for the marriage.  The two biggest issues are stability and support.  She goes back and forth with her attitude, it's hard to get a handle.  Like this morning, I did her a huge favor and she was so grateful, but less than an hour later, she's ripping into me for something that happened a week ago. 

The issue of support comes to not only her believing she's the only real support I have, but that she gets jealous of other people supporting if she doesn't agree with them 100%.  Truthfully, it's the same problems that have plagued our marriage for years.  And she doesn't or won't see it.

Thanks for listening to me complain. [emoji13]  And thank you for the thoughts. 

chigirl

thx for the time line, and many updates. reading this sounds like my situation, or could be my situation when i finally declare finally to her I'm mtf.  I'm trying to come out, wife pushing me back in closet sort of thing.

as a question through all of this, is there anything you would do differently with your wife in coming out? any advice on how i might smooth out my coming out to my fiery red head of a wife?

did you have to deal with laments of 'you ruined my life' and 'I have no where to go' type anger? ( which btw is not true at all, and i would support het fully if she choose to leave me)

Hi, Megan,
A fiery redhead?  Ooh, good luck!

Seriously, I think I would have a coming out letter written, even if I decided not to use it.  At least she could read it later on.  I would have had some information on gender dysphoria she good read when she was ready.  I was going to do all that, but it kinda got pushed out sooner.  If you have kids, I would hold off on telling them right away, but not too long.  If your wife is supportive, both of you showing a united front will help.  Most importantly, be honest.  As honest as you can be without totally freaking her out.  But don't tell her something you think she wants to her.  Consider her feelings, but be honest!  Trust will be an issue.   From then on any lie she catches you, no matter how small, will be a big deal.

I definitely had the "ruined my life" type comments and anger.  About 8 hours after I told her, she went into an anger that last 5 days.  There have been a lot of ups and downs.  She ended up in the hospital because she couldn't take it.

But it ended up being a good thing.  She got therapy and we started marital therapy.  She's become very supportive.  In fact, I dressed in front of her tonight and we had a very good night.

Things aren't perfect.  She still doesn't want me to start hair removal or HRT.  There's still a lot of work ahead. 

It's not easy, but I can say my coming out lifted a weight from shoulders and it was the best thing I did. 

Good luck and hugs. Remember you are not alone.  Let me/us know how it goes and feel free to ask more questions.

Quote from: ChiGirl on March 27, 2015, 11:27:03 PM
I definitely had the "ruined my life" type comments and anger.  About 8 hours after I told her, she went into an anger that last 5 days.  There have been a lot of ups and downs.  She ended up in the hospital because she couldn't take it.

But it ended up being a good thing.  She got therapy and we started marital therapy.  She's become very supportive.  In fact, I dressed in front of her tonight and we had a very good night.

Things aren't perfect.  She still doesn't want me to start hair removal or HRT.  There's still a lot of work ahead. 

That is really fantastic news, I was just wondering how you were doing. I am really in awe of your strength and perseverance.

Thanks, Jeni.  It's been interesting to say the least.  [emoji6]   I think my will to push through has been as much for my daughter as anything else.  And it has helped us.  I think no matter what happens to our marriage, I think we'll be able to stay friends. 

Thanks so much for your thoughts and concerns.  I hope all is going well with you.

Megan when I spoke to my wife I started the discussion talking to her about my depression and how my dysphoria was causing it. I spoke with a transsexual male pastor who has been giving me advice over the last few years and he told me that was a gear way to start the conversation by letting her know of the pain I have been in.  I didn't realize it at the time but that's how I started things. Just a thought in case it helps. Melanie.

These shares help, appreciate all your thoughts, ChiGirl, glad things are getting better by the day, this is a great chronicle.

Well, keeping up with this, things feel like they're falling back to where they were back in January.  My wife is still accepting, but all the issues we had prior to coming out are rearing their ugly head.  There's plenty of blame to go around, but she once again feels like I'm not there for her or our daughter.  Despite spending Easter with her family and missing work on Monday morning to go to an MRI with her, it's always a "What have you done for me lately" attitude.  Today, she says as soon as our daughter recovers from her shoulder surgery, they are both out of here.  I think separation may be for the best, but it won't happen.  She's done this so many times, and I feel like it's just to force me to do what she wants.

We had an incident with my therapist yesterday.  She demanded to go with.  I said no, it's my therapist, but she wouldn't let it go.  We got there and she started by going off and had 3 lies in the first minute.  I said I can't do this and started to walk out.  My therapist stopped me and my wife ended up leaving.  My therapist told me he was proud of me for standing up to her.  Now my wife says is my therapist won't help both of us, I have to choose between him and her.  And this is not the first time she's done this with my therapist.

I know I'm not always the best, but since I came out, I've been so much happier.  Except in my marriage.  I don't know what do anymore.  I don't feel the marriage counseling is helping.  I don't think her therapy is making her any more aware of what she's doing.  And I'm just getting angrier.  I'm scared.  Transition is going to be hard enough without being confused about the person who claims to be not only my biggest supporter, but my only true support. 

hi ChiGirl,

I'm starting to think there is no easy road here, for those that have long term partners/spouses they have come out to. I'm in a similar boat with my wife, I'm hoping something will click and I will get the support I need. but so far its not happened. I wish you best of luck and hopes are with you. Hugs.

Thanks, Megan.  Yeah, no easy road here.  I feel weird that while so many girls here have (or had)  SOs who were not supportive, I'm lucky to have one that trying hard to be supportive.  YET, I'm the one who's ready to leave the marriage.  She is just an insufferable person to be around.  She always plays the victim and finds a way to blame other people.  There are too many issues that have gone on too long that she won't see as problems. 

I wish you good luck with your wife.  Hugs!

This is road you white knuckle your way through, never knowing in the dark and pouring rain where the next twist, turn, or pot hole lays. It takes time, time for things to sink in for both of you. Time to heal wounds ripped open in the heat of anguish and heartache. You feel your way through through the darkness, Your mutual love hopefully keeps you careening off into the weeds of hate and dispare.

We try our best. Keep the lines of communication open. The imagination can conjure up things far worse then a potential reality in most cases