Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: cindy16 on January 28, 2015, 07:48:48 AM Return to Full Version
Title: legal recognition of marriage and parenthood post-transition
Post by: cindy16 on January 28, 2015, 07:48:48 AM
Post by: cindy16 on January 28, 2015, 07:48:48 AM
I have read about this on other threads and found that many here are still happily living with the same spouse and kid(s) they had before transition, but I want to know if this is possible only in the most liberal places which recognize the same rights of marriage, parenthood and adoption for the entire LGBT spectrum as for hetero couples? Or are there states/countries which do not recognize LGBT marriages and adoptions, but still recognize the validity of a marriage and a parent's rights regarding their child if the parent transitions afterwards?
All this assumes, of course, that the spouse and kid(s) in question have no issues with the transition. In that case, can courts order a separation/annulment/divorce simply based on their own opinion or what others in the extended family / society say?
This is relevant to me because my country does not recognize LGBT relationships, marriages or adoptions at all. One option for me is of course to just emigrate, but in case that is not possible, and if I do decide to risk transitioning here itself, I just want to know how these external factors may affect my personal life. My wife and I are constantly talking about my dysphoria and where it may lead us in the future, and so far her opposition to transitioning or concerns about it are mostly due to such factors, not because she personally thinks it is wrong. We do not have kids yet but may have one in the near future, and we really want it no matter what my decision is regarding transition.
All this assumes, of course, that the spouse and kid(s) in question have no issues with the transition. In that case, can courts order a separation/annulment/divorce simply based on their own opinion or what others in the extended family / society say?
This is relevant to me because my country does not recognize LGBT relationships, marriages or adoptions at all. One option for me is of course to just emigrate, but in case that is not possible, and if I do decide to risk transitioning here itself, I just want to know how these external factors may affect my personal life. My wife and I are constantly talking about my dysphoria and where it may lead us in the future, and so far her opposition to transitioning or concerns about it are mostly due to such factors, not because she personally thinks it is wrong. We do not have kids yet but may have one in the near future, and we really want it no matter what my decision is regarding transition.
Title: Re: legal recognition of marriage and parenthood post-transition
Post by: Jenna Marie on January 28, 2015, 08:35:44 AM
Post by: Jenna Marie on January 28, 2015, 08:35:44 AM
In the US, the marriage remains valid because it's what was true at the time of the contract that counts - that transition can't retroactively invalidate a contract. (This also proved to be the case with my mortgage; they couldn't change the name on the actual legal contract! Argh.) In the states where same-sex marriage isn't legal a couple can expect a lot more hassle proving it to confused bureaucrats, but their marriage will still be legal. Courts also can't order a couple to get divorced in the US, though obviously if one partner *wants* a divorce that's a different issue.
I'm afraid I don't know about other countries. You may be able to research it, but possibly not without outing yourself...
I'm afraid I don't know about other countries. You may be able to research it, but possibly not without outing yourself...
Title: Re: legal recognition of marriage and parenthood post-transition
Post by: ImagineKate on January 28, 2015, 12:40:57 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 28, 2015, 12:40:57 PM
In the US it's definitely true that the Government can't void your marriage if you transition. Parental rights too. Years ago they used to take away kids from transsexuals (it happened to Lynn Conway, IIRC) but today not anymore.
Plus the protections for (now) same-sex couples has been strengthened with the supreme court decision striking down DOMA.
In other countries? I seem to remember Cindy saying that in Australia they force you to divorce once you've had SRS and you'd be in a same-sex marriage.
Plus the protections for (now) same-sex couples has been strengthened with the supreme court decision striking down DOMA.
In other countries? I seem to remember Cindy saying that in Australia they force you to divorce once you've had SRS and you'd be in a same-sex marriage.
Title: Re: legal recognition of marriage and parenthood post-transition
Post by: cindy16 on January 28, 2015, 02:15:28 PM
Post by: cindy16 on January 28, 2015, 02:15:28 PM
Thanks Jenna and Kate.
I had read about the US laws already on this site, especially that what matters is what is true at the time of the contract.
It would be interesting to hear about Australia and some other countries which are generally liberal regarding trans issues, but do not recognize same-sex marriages. Does the same principle as in the US apply in these countries, or are there other interpretations too?
Actually in India (where I live), the situation is a little more complicated. On one hand, same-sex relationships have no legal recognition, but on the other, there are sometimes reports even in mainstream media of same-sex couples getting married, not just in the big cities but even in remote rural areas. This is possible because legal recognition matters only for 'registering' a marriage, not for getting a priest to officiate it at home or in a temple. In one case, a court even ordered police protection for a lesbian couple being threatened by their families. And there are also reports of same-sex couples raising children of one of the partners from a previous marriage. So I think it is all a bit fluid and varies by the specifics of each case.
But I did not find any case similar to mine here, so I was not sure. Although the bigger problem, as Jenna mentioned, might be dealing with 'confused bureaucrats' on a regular basis rather than a one-time legal battle. And even more so, dealing with social opposition which may have a greater and more frequent impact.
I had read about the US laws already on this site, especially that what matters is what is true at the time of the contract.
It would be interesting to hear about Australia and some other countries which are generally liberal regarding trans issues, but do not recognize same-sex marriages. Does the same principle as in the US apply in these countries, or are there other interpretations too?
Actually in India (where I live), the situation is a little more complicated. On one hand, same-sex relationships have no legal recognition, but on the other, there are sometimes reports even in mainstream media of same-sex couples getting married, not just in the big cities but even in remote rural areas. This is possible because legal recognition matters only for 'registering' a marriage, not for getting a priest to officiate it at home or in a temple. In one case, a court even ordered police protection for a lesbian couple being threatened by their families. And there are also reports of same-sex couples raising children of one of the partners from a previous marriage. So I think it is all a bit fluid and varies by the specifics of each case.
But I did not find any case similar to mine here, so I was not sure. Although the bigger problem, as Jenna mentioned, might be dealing with 'confused bureaucrats' on a regular basis rather than a one-time legal battle. And even more so, dealing with social opposition which may have a greater and more frequent impact.