Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Really hard for me to post pics here because internet makes me nervous sometimes, I did it once but they were not very clear and so here are some clearer ones. I fear that hormones will do next to nothing for my face, especially since I am almost 33 years old. I have been reading that once you get into your 30s, the effect of hormones on your face is greatly diminished from when you are a teen or in your early 20s.

Please, Ladies, be completely honest with me here. I know my male self is very ugly and odd so I can take some brutal honesty. Will I need FFS? Could this man mug ever possibly pass for a woman? Here:

http://imgur.com/Y2qQbNm
http://imgur.com/3SEHbeN

Don't I like have brow bossing or some stuff like that? I'm not sure.

In the end you don't need anything more than you want yourself

Also personally I would wait to think about things like those when you aren't yet on hormones.

Hormones don't change your bones but I would be lying if I haven't seen peoples faces structure wise grow more feminine

I think hair removal and hormones will do A LOT for you!!

You look fine! I started at exactly your age (32) and haven't been misgendered since about six months on HRT, and I was SO very square-faced and heavy-jawed when I began. It's true that HRT doesn't change bone structure, but you can't underestimate how drastic a change "merely" soft tissue changes can be - it's like magic, and take a look at the before and after thread to see some remarkable transformations on HRT alone.

I still have the moderate brow bossing I started with, but it's unnoticeable compared to the rest of my face, apparently. (I don't know how that works either, but hey, I'm grateful.)

Hey Petti,

Nice to see that face of yours. I say give hormones sometime to work on your face.
Then you can re-asses after 2 to 3 years sometimes 7 as my friend would say who also transitioned.

One step at a time. Get those hormones first :)

xo

April

yeah you have some brow bossing but if you can't get ffs for whatever reason a good fringe, side part, bangs, etc.. can help minimize and cover it. Grow out your hair, it'll make a big difference!

Everything what Jenna said like hrt will add fat to your cheeks and overall hrt softens your face but not everyone sees a big change there. Its like a hit or miss provided that you're on a good diet to be able gain the fat.

I think you have a good starting point though! Its best to go into hrt with minimum expectations. As far as passing goes I can't say if you will be able to or not because there are so many more factors that go into passing other than just looks.

Also get your eyebrows done in a feminine shape. That helps a bunch too!

Are there any feminine features of my face or anything that works in my favor? Isn't my nose and head too big? How important is it to rid myself of this brow bossing? Honest assessment, is my look very masculine? Do any ciswomen have brow bossing? The arfea around my eye, I believe, is called orbitals - are mine very masculine. I won't cry, hurt myself  or anything like that if you all are real with me. Also, I really value the opinions here because I know you girls aren't trying to sell me anything like $30,000 worth of FFS surgery.

I know I am a pest, you all - I know, I know. I am so very humble. At the moment, I just have no where else to go. I really appreciate the help. Oh, I am working on growing my hair out, but I have a looooong way to go there.


About how much hormones changes one's appearance: I have read many times that some people are more receptive to hrt and I wonder if there are any signs that one may be more receptive. For instance  I see that some of the psych effects of hormones is that they can make one cry or be more emotional, but I have always been like that - so could something like that indicate that someone is more likely to be receptive to changes since maybe they have more receptors in their body?

Hard to tell but I would say your lips and chin. Your forehead bossing isn't too too bad either.

Signs? You'll only know if/when you start and maybe not for a while. Remember it takes cis women years to fully develop. So give it some time. At least 2 years on hormones before you go for ffs.

Hey Kate, thank you for responding. But my lips and chin what? Look feminine or look masculine? Will need surgery?

They look somewhat feminine. In particular your chin is narrower which is good.

Well I started HRT at 58 and you would not believe how I looked!!

I'm now never misgendered, and indeed hit on quire regularly :laugh:

For you, laser and electrolysis. Grow your hair out and get a nice feminine hairstyle. Get your eyebrows styled professionally.

HRT takes at least 12 -24 months to change your face. Make up works wonders as well.

I have some girlfriends who looked like cro-magnon man and they needed FFS to get anywhere. In my opinion you just need time to see how you go.

And Hey, we all worry like crazy and we are our own worse enemies.

Hugs young lady.

Of course, I agree you should wait until HRT before deciding if you should do anything. Also, it is up to you.

Okie, it's good to hear you all say I should wait to consider FFS which leads me to believe some of you think there is some potential with HRT. I just feel like my face has very sharp and deep masculine features that HRT could not fix in 1,000 years. I just thought there were zero "base" or natural feminine features about my face. Here's to hoping I am one who's receptive to hormones.

I really want to avoid FFS, but if I had to do it, I would. oO

Sorry, I left out the main point I wanted to make from my last post.

You may find yourself FAR less concerned about your feminine appearance after you start transition as well. If it lifts your dysphoria (like it tends to do) you may be surprised how quickly your priorities change. It is also amazing what you can do when you are skilled with makeup, but it certainly takes practice.

Looking female can be a lot of work for any woman but, a sense of self is what really seals the deal.

You will not know until you transition, who you really are, and you should wait until then to decide how you wish to look.

I have gone through so many phases since I began HRT, almost all of them happy. One month I want to look uber femme, the next I feel Andro or like a Tom boy, sometimes I crave a mani pedi, sometimes I want dirt under my nails.

Transition does take a long time, and it can be quite the teenage journey, no matter what your age it is a puberty. It can be an emotional roller coaster for MTFs as we learn how to think while under the influence of estrogen, which is SO vastly different from T.

You won't know how you look until you have transitioned for a while and you won't really know what you want to look like, either.

I have grown rather fond of my masculine features in great part, because people around me have been so accepting of my transition I feel no need to hide that part of me (to my surprise). I may always look manly but I really don't care because people like me better now, than when I was a suicidally dysphoric drunk.

Looks may not be as important after HRT, or they may be more important.

Every journey is unique.

I personally am gendered the way I present, I am in a slight debate but leaning towards no breast implants myself. To get back on track give the lady hormones some time. I thought i would need so much done, especially wigs or hair surgery. Two years in my transition is going fantastic and I am comfortable in my own skin. You honestly have a great face that will really smoothe out over time. give the lady drugs a chance sister :)

Quote from: Tori on February 08, 2015, 01:03:32 AM
Sorry, I left out the main point I wanted to make from my last post.

You may find yourself FAR less concerned about your feminine appearance after you start transition as well. If it lifts your dysphoria (like it tends to do) you may be surprised how quickly your priorities change. It is also amazing what you can do when you are skilled with makeup, but it certainly takes practice.

Looking female can be a lot of work for any woman but, a sense of self is what really seals the deal.

You will not know until you transition, who you really are, and you should wait until then to decide how you wish to look.

I have gone through so many phases since I began HRT, almost all of them happy. One month I want to look uber femme, the next I feel Andro or like a Tom boy, sometimes I crave a mani pedi, sometimes I want dirt under my nails.

Transition does take a long time, and it can be quite the teenage journey, no matter what your age it is a puberty. It can be an emotional roller coaster for MTFs as we learn how to think while under the influence of estrogen, which is SO vastly different from T.

You won't know how you look until you have transitioned for a while and you won't really know what you want to look like, either.

I have grown rather fond of my masculine features in great part, because people around me have been so accepting of my transition I feel no need to hide that part of me (to my surprise). I may always look manly but I really don't care because people like me better now, than when I was a suicidally dysphoric drunk.

Looks may not be as important after HRT, or they may be more important.

Every journey is unique.

This is so very true. And you will not know until you get there. It's a very long journey for all of us, but in the end it's so worth it. Dysphoria totally sucks. =(

Hiya Petti

Having had a reasonable amount of FFS done, after seeing your photos I don't think it's an essential thing for you right now. 

You have an attractive face (gorgeous lips, by the way!) and the others have all made valid suggestions:  fix your eyebrows and facial hair, grow your hair, and see what HRT does for you. 

Here is a test that I found to be very useful:  get someone professional to do your makeup, and use a wig that would realistically show how your hair could be when long.  Looking at yourself with makeup as a woman may allow you to see whether there are any bits that look very wrong. 

But don't be obsessed by pursuing some idealised female face.  Pre-FFS, with makeup, I had a very interestingly androgynous look, and I got quite a bit of attention from guys on the street.  Now, post-FFS, I am never misgendered, but surprisingly I get less attention, not that I care really.

Good luck!
Julia

I'd definitely give HRT some time to do its thing. I started age 47 and it's worked wonders.

In your favour you have a small chin and great lips. Your nose is neither here nor there. Compare it with other genetic women from your racial background.

Your forehead/brow would seem smaller with a different hairstyle that sweeps down at the front.

Please disavow yourself of the notion that you are "ugly" as I believe you will become a beautiful woman with no surgical intervention. :)

I think your transition between forehead and nose is very masculine and very prominent. Another important thing are masculine orbital rims. These two areas will not change with 30 years of HRT, and any softening as a result that would happen there, wouldn't make a significant difference. This whole forehead-eyes area and transition to nose is essential for masculine or feminine facial expression. But hey, this is fixable, thats a good thing, right? Your brow bossing isn't too bad, and your forehead angle gives you a possibility for nice transition curve from top of forehead to the tip of the nose. As far nose goes, definitely a smaller typical afro-american upturned shape- shortening at the tip which results in higher feminine angle.. and overall narrowing of the nose. Hairline advancement and brow lift automatically happens with forehead-orbital work. And the last thing I see would be a lip-lift. 

Based on this 2 photos, I think you have quite good starting point for good FFS result. You chin&jaw area doesn't look problematic > that saves quite some $$$ compared to full FFS.

Will you need FFS to pass? Well that depends on what you mean by pass. Many people here have very different view on what passing is, and who is passable and who is not. So it's really up to what you think you need for you to be comfortable and happy. 

Quote from: Petti on February 07, 2015, 10:45:33 PM
Are there any feminine features of my face or anything that works in my favor? Isn't my nose and head too big? .....

Next Friday evening or Saturday morning spend a few hours of "Quality Time" in the checkout line at the grocery store honestly looking at real women doing real world stuff. They come in all shapes and sizes with all manner of flaws. Even facial hair, andro faces, deep voices, tall, big, balding, you name it. You know... real people. Not Hollywood or fashion women with a 2 year half-life

If you ever saw me in male mode you would never believe it's the same person. 6 ft tall, big boned, very balding, super-sized super orbital ridges, you name it. Aside from muscles no mistaking me for anything but male. Total opposites! While living part in rural West Virginia working for the largest employer in the area with several thousand others, some 500 or so seeing me everyday, I had no fear of being recognized in biggest of 2 grocery stores.

We are our absolutely worse (or is it best?) critic. We obsess over every little tiny detail that isn't perfect, that may just 'Expose' the truth about us to the rest of the world. We have intimate knowledge of what is important making it real easy to push those buttons. This is true while presenting in either gender. We are imperfect in either, and want to pass.

If much to all your energy for happiness and peace within is directed towards the outside, what really counts, the inside, will suffer. When I started this journey almost 6 years my one goal was to bring those two and very important aspects of myself together in order to make one whole, healthy, and hopefully happy person. I'm getting there.

I totally envy those that have a "F the World" attitude about their looks. But for all of us the time comes when the joy of being out in the real world as the real you far exceeds the pain of not being a super-model, or even close to one.

Feel genuine, at peace within, happy finally being you inside your own skin is the end game.

I will second Joanne, I started noticing women on the subway, offices, mall and grocery stores etch and most if not all have some masculine aspects on their faces. Now for our sisters, one would argue that they have some hyper masculine features and would pursue FFS. I would honestly go back to my initial advice to wait it out and let estrogen do its work in softening your face. However, this is YMMV kind of situation. I remember Leila advising me weeks ago maybe start saving money now just in case. However, if in case you really don't need it then you have this stash of money that you can use to purchase dresses, shoes and make up or a downpayment for a house, car!!!!!  :D

Also, if I have to look for every single flaws in my face, there are tons - brow bossing (slight), big nose, big jaw, imperfect skin etch.

Now will I focus my energy on them, on some days yes some days I really don't care.

So far I am passing ok. I have never been misgendered  for awhile now. Unless I would deliberately want them to.

One step at a time babe, get a referral for an endo appointment or a GP that's willing to give you our beauty pills.

Hugs,

April

Quote from: JoanneB on February 08, 2015, 08:14:49 AM
Next Friday evening or Saturday morning spend a few hours of "Quality Time" in the checkout line at the grocery store honestly looking at real women doing real world stuff. They come in all shapes and sizes with all manner of flaws. Even facial hair, andro faces, deep voices, tall, big, balding, you name it. You know... real people. Not Hollywood or fashion women with a 2 year half-life

If you ever saw me in male mode you would never believe it's the same person. 6 ft tall, big boned, very balding, super-sized super orbital ridges, you name it. Aside from muscles no mistaking me for anything but male. Total opposites! While living part in rural West Virginia working for the largest employer in the area with several thousand others, some 500 or so seeing me everyday, I had no fear of being recognized in biggest of 2 grocery stores.

We are our absolutely worse (or is it best?) critic. We obsess over every little tiny detail that isn't perfect, that may just 'Expose' the truth about us to the rest of the world. We have intimate knowledge of what is important making it real easy to push those buttons. This is true while presenting in either gender. We are imperfect in either, and want to pass.

If much to all your energy for happiness and peace within is directed towards the outside, what really counts, the inside, will suffer. When I started this journey almost 6 years my one goal was to bring those two and very important aspects of myself together in order to make one whole, healthy, and hopefully happy person. I'm getting there.

I totally envy those that have a "F the World" attitude about their looks. But for all of us the time comes when the joy of being out in the real world as the real you far exceeds the pain of not being a super-model, or even close to one.

Feel genuine, at peace within, happy finally being you inside your own skin is the end game.

Wait for HTR to change a lot of your face shape before making a judgement about needing FFS or not.  It will make your face rounder, skin softer and after that you will look very different. 
After those changes have happened you can maybe start to look into what you want to change. 

Your lips, chin, and nose definitely look feminine to me, and a lot of *apparent* eye shape and size can change on HRT. (again, not the bones, but don't underestimate what soft tissue changes can do.) Also, yes, pretty much all gendered traits exist on a spectrum; they tend to be more pronounced and more visible in men versus women or vice versa, but there are cis women with brow bossing and aggressively square jaws and heavy facial bone structure and so on. In the end it's about the overall balance of a face, and one or two "masculine" features will be drowned out if the remainder of the face is highly feminine.

I've even seen photos of cis actresses posted as examples of women who are a) obviously trans and b) need FFS. :) The general public is also not as observant or as demanding as people who are experts on these issues... so much less likely to seize on individual features and suspect someone is trans.  (Heck, I went out a couple weeks ago with a trans friend of mine who's early on HRT an also hadn't shaved in a few days [for electro]. Nobody batted an eye, and she was reflexively gendered female everywhere we went.)

Hey you all, your responses mean the world to me and I think you for your honesty and assessment. I thank you for giving me an understanding on not only my actual face, but on what passing actually means.

I took my pictures down from imgur because first and foremost I am super ultra self-conscious about my looks to the point where I don't even have pictures of me hanging anywhere in my house and forbid anyone from hanging them. And also because posting images of myself on the internet makes me nervous. Hopefully you all understand.

It will be interesting to see what hormones do to my appearance, and it'll be interesting to see what long hair and makeup does for me as well. So many thoughts and concerns and I have a great deal of optimism mixed with just as much pessimism.

You girls have really worked to make me feel better and to also gain some understanding at a period in my life where so much is a blur. I am ever grateful.