General Discussions => General discussions => Polls => Topic started by: mythy on March 03, 2015, 01:31:01 AM Return to Full Version

Title: Are you out at work?
Post by: mythy on March 03, 2015, 01:31:01 AM
Just curious to see what other peoples' experiences have been coming out at work. I am out to some people but most people see me a a cis man. People who know me better know I am trans though.


Sorry if this is already a poll, I didn't see one yet..
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: antonia on March 03, 2015, 01:52:11 AM
I'm out at work, transitioned on the job and did it slowly progressing from male to female in front of their eyes.

Everyone is awesome about it, the newer people (read guys) tend to behave a bit differently than the guys that knew me before but both the guys and the girls have been super supportive and I could not be happier.

One of the things that I did before going full time and starting HRT was do a 1h powerpoint presentation on being trans and trans etiquette for the entire company, I think this helped a lot and even though it wasn't easy to do it was worth it in the long run.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: ToniB on March 03, 2015, 02:12:29 AM
Hi I am in a halfway position at Work .I have reached a position in my transition when I can no longer hide the feminisation of my face breasts and personallity .I got approached by several ladies and was asked descretely what is going on plus i had a problem with my breasts getting crushed by a part of my job .I went to Occupational health and the nurse said I need a BRA to support my boobs .that led to having to approach HR and it was decided that for my protection against harrassment I declare myself transgender.We decided that it was better to come out to the workforce and scotch all the talk and gossip that had started .I am still a while from dressing at work due to the wife having grat difficulty coming to terms with my transition .But I have found so much support at work .I decided I had to come out to my grown up daughters and they both said tell me something we dont know so no problem there..So if I can get the wife on board I can transition at work anytime I want
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: LordKAT on March 03, 2015, 02:37:30 AM
Yes, but the choice or not choice leaves to much to interpretation.
I wasn't outed by other people, I transitioned at work. My choice would be to work without my status being known by anyone.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Cindy on March 03, 2015, 03:57:58 AM
I just went FT. Friday male, Monday female. Their problem not mine. Women accepted me straight away, men had a struggle. I didn't.

To be honest in my opinion is that there is no way to hide transition, so why hide?

Just do it?
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Kellam on March 03, 2015, 06:54:35 AM
I'm still a month or two from the start of hrt, although I have begun the process. So I am not ready to come out at work. That being said, I have started doing little things to make me feel better that folks may or may not be noticing. Shaved my hairy arms and legs, wearing a pink ball cap instead of ratty grey, women's pants and I am not restraining my mannerisms. I haven't done it all at once either, slow trickle is what I am going for. I have worn women's pants to work in the past so there may be years old rumors about me, I don't know. I will either wait for hrt to take noticeable effect, or maybe once the beard is gone, or the more likely option, I will just reach a point where I can't stand not saying anything. Or perhaps one of my nosey workmates will ask me something and give me an opening. I'm looking forward to it either way. Also, Boston is a small city and I have been dressing way more fem when I am out and about in my own time. I am fine any which way and the museum I work at is probably as close as one can come to a safe place.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Jerri on March 03, 2015, 08:21:34 AM
For me, my anxiety and dysphoria was so extreme after my break down that it was not healthy to continue with trying to support a dual identity. So I came out and 6 months later went full time in every aspect of my life. I had worked for 25 years at the same location and continue too as I physically continue to change before them, I also find that many of the guys seem to struggle a bit more than most of the women. I use the term most because it seems to be based on the person not so much their genetics. Over time my position with 99% has improved as they have witnessed so much improvement in my demeanor and focus living as me. And as with everything in life some are just appalled and don't care why.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: ainsley on March 03, 2015, 09:05:08 AM
Like Jerri, the duality of going to work male and being myself outside work was too much. 

I just went into HR one day, popped down and asked what the corporate policy was on transgender and if there was any threat to a person's job if they presented other than their assigned birth gender.  My company had no trans* out, and the diversity policy made no mention of gender identity or expression.  The HR girl understood that I was talking about myself, although I avoided that because I did not want to be let go from my job (ours is a traditional, private company of about 1700 employees).  She consulted the HR VP and came back with their position on it; they wanted to be fully supportive.

So, I met with her again, came out to her, and basically got the go ahead to dress how I want and use w/e restroom I felt comfortable in.  They even designated the first gender non-specific single occupancy bathroom for me.

HR then did something I was a bit take aback by: They called my bosses in and outed me to them!  They were intending to prevent any discrimination toward me by them, but still!  So, my boss had a chat with me, and she was awesome about it.  She said HR wanted to call everyone in from my department one by one and explain to them the corporate expectations toward trans* and the respect of the diversity policy.

So, they basically fully accepted my coming out, supported it with changes in the corp., outed me to my bosses, then had a little chat with all of the people in my department about respecting my decision.  And, they have been nothing but supportive since.  Every once in a while I will get a call from the girl in HR and she will ask if anyone has mistreated me in any way, or even said anything to me about being in the ladies room.  She keeps telling me that if I experience anything ill intended to contact her immediately.

The only thing they will NOT accommodate for me is removal of the specific exclusion in our medical coverage for "sex transformation operations and related services".  argh!

-Ainsley
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Myers on March 03, 2015, 09:17:53 AM
No, and I like the way it is.

I know my coworkers are trans-friendly, cos we had discussed it a couple of times already. And one of the coworker's relatives is a transgendered woman.
Also I suspect one of the guys from another office being a post-op transman (you know, sometimes it is just obvious).

I was thinking about coming out. Don't know why thought.. But I changed my mind, I would prefer living stealth. It makes me feel much comfortable
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: StrykerXIII on March 03, 2015, 09:30:06 AM
Coming out almost certainly spells "termination" for me. Most of the individuals under the employment of my company are male (I'd estimate around 95%), with 99.9% being cismale "macho" types (the other 0.1% being myself, obviously).
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: FTMax on March 03, 2015, 01:44:38 PM
I am. With the doctors appointments to start HRT and surgery consultations, my boss was concerned that I was having some kind of major health issue. He felt better after I told him I was transitioning  :D
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Sunderland on March 03, 2015, 02:04:10 PM
My "boss"was actually the first person I came out to, since she is a family member. I'm not sure how much it really counts, since I don't work around other people, but I voted in the poll anyway.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Miharu Barbie on March 03, 2015, 02:23:38 PM
Nope.  Not a good idea for me.  For the past 9 years I've worked in the accounting office for an order of Catholic nuns.  As far as I know, no one at work has any idea about my trans history, and I shudder to think how the 600 nuns I work for would react.  It was challenging enough for them when I met and married another woman 7 years ago.  They raised an eyebrow when got a half-sleeve tattoo on my left arm last March... they raised the other eyebrow when I got a half-sleeve tattoo on my right arm 3 weeks ago. 

I think that's enough testing my luck with the Catholic Church for one lifetime.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2015, 02:34:33 PM
I came out at work and before long I didn't have to worry about getting up for work anymore.
The company was part of a group that sells magazines, I won't name them for legal reasons. On a completely unrelated topic I'll never walk into a branch of WH Smiths for some reason
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Virginia on March 05, 2015, 08:08:52 AM
The duality of living of as both a man and as a woman is not difficult for me; it is the solution. Being a cisgender man is as fundamental to my role in my System as being a cigender woman is to my female alter.

The battle between us for control of the body was a bloody one. Misdiagnosing my Dissociative Identity Disorder/Multiple Personality Disorder (DID/MPD) as transsexualism, my GT insisted I begin to develop a more feminine presentation as a step towards what she saw as my eventual coming out and transition. Coming out is not and has never been right for me or my wife, while I was still working or now that I am retired. The more I incorporated female grooming and clothing into my style, the worse my dysphoria became. I went from the frying pan into the fire, from not meeting my female alters needs to not meeting either of our needs.

I am still my System host but agreeing to split fronting 70/30, both me and my female alter get 100% of what we need. Achieving this very basic level of self acceptance set the stage to begin recovering my memories and healing the scars of childhood trauma.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Eva Marie on March 05, 2015, 09:25:10 AM
I was living a dual lifestyle - presenting male at work and living as a female everywhere else and it was getting harder and harder to keep each life separate from the other. I was also experiencing more and more male fail, and I knew it was time to get on with my transition. I approached the CEO and came out to her, and a few weeks later I had my legal name and gender change on 9/15/2014 and showed up to work as Eva on 9/17/2014. I work in a semi-smallish office (about 50 people) and the reaction has been 99% positive from most people, but there is still that one person that constantly misgenders me  ::) but its more of a forgetful thing than done from any malice.

The women generally accepted me immediately and i've noticed that that the men have all gotten much, much nicer to me, and i've observed a few of them surreptitiously checking out parts of my anatomy. Work is just work now and I quickly became old news around the water cooler. I have some close associates/spies in the office and they say that they have never heard anyone talking bad about me.

Prior to my coming out and at my suggestion my company hired a gender therapist to come into the office and make an educational presentation about what was happening with me while I was taking a few days off before the 17th. I think that people learning about it from a professional went a long, long way toward them being ok with me and accepting me. The other thing that really helped was that management made it perfectly clear that they supported me 100% and no shenanigans or disrespect would be tolerated from anyone.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Call me Ray on March 05, 2015, 10:19:55 AM
Mine's not yet, pre-transition. Mostly because I don't start T until (hopefully) next week and we're still working with HR to get everything finalized for coming out and transitioning at work by the end of the month.

So, not yet but soon!
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Jill F on March 05, 2015, 12:53:17 PM
I think everyone at Susan's Place probably knows that I'm a transsexual by now.  :D

And yes, most of my former employers know.  There's one that I'm not telling because I know he hates all things LGBT and has the means to have me whacked.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: ErinReign on March 05, 2015, 01:21:11 PM
My direct co-workers, male and female, are pretty vocally against anything LGBT related, and from the CEO down the company throws off an old boys' club vibe. So no I am not out at work nor do I intend to be until I get a new job.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Tripdistrans on March 06, 2015, 08:15:53 AM
I started working at McDonald's before transition, and they have been absolutely great about it. The Store Owner herself sat down every single manager, even the ones I don't work with, and explained that I must be respected as male and that if crew are not respecting my gender, that they must do something about it.

Now, I'm not saying the Managers are hot diggity damn at making sure this happens, but if I point it out to the right Manager, they do go and talk to said crew member. It also sort of helps that my older sister worked (until last week) in the same store as me. There's still the maintenance guy that I've already mentioned way too many times.. I'm waiting on one of the managers to get back from her holiday so I can ask her to address the situation, for some reason I feel like the male managers just won't deal with it appropriately.

As for Coles, I started working there after I started my transition, and they have no problem with it. I don't think I ever really explained that I'm transgender, I think I just sort of told them briefly when explaining the name difference and stuff and they were like yeah cool. Because I pass 99% of the time, I've got no problems over there. I've only told one work friend about it, and I've got no idea at all if the others know.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Greeneyedrebel on March 06, 2015, 11:28:25 AM
I have been out to the department I work in, HR,  and a few others I work closely with since the first shot. Thankfully, it's a small department within a huge company and even in the building I work in, 98% of the people don't know my name.

It's been a slow transition, I began binding before T, so the changes have been subtle to those that see me in a hallway etc. Thanks to not knowing my name, those that didn't know me as "old name" will only know me as my true name, no re-introducing necessary.

Since I have been here for years, there was the bathroom dilemma, which I think I solved in a creative way. When I began transition, I began using the bathroom furthest from my little office cave. This gave me the benefit of NOT having those people know who the heck I was. When I switched to the men's room, I began using the one closest to my desk, without incident. But I avoided the issue of someone realizing this person went in one door last week and now a different door. Yes, it was more inconvenient for me in some ways, but easier in others.

The company is amazing with it all though, I have had full backing all the way up the chain since day one, including a note from the CEO and COO. I can not imagine an easier workplace transition that what I experienced.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Carrie Liz on March 06, 2015, 11:34:15 AM
No, I'm not out at work. I'm considering it, but I'm so scared of no longer being treated like a normal girl by people, so I've kept it quiet even though I'm also feeling guilty for not being honest with people about my past.

Pre-transition, I had two awful experiences with work.

I stayed closeted while I was working at my original job. The distress from being stuck as male caused my stress level to be so high that I had a meltdown one night, I blew up at a supervisor after I made a mistake, and I got fired for it.

At my second job, I came out as trans at work, and let the manager know that I was planning on transitioning once I started passing as female a reasonable amount of the time. Less than two weeks later, I mysteriously found myself fired for absolutely no reason. (But with no legal protections since I was only a probationary hire, and no way to legally prove that it was because I was trans, there was nothing I could do about it.)

I started this current job legally post-transition and stealth, and I've kept it that way ever since.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Mariah on March 06, 2015, 11:52:01 AM
Out at work as in having transitioned at work yes. However, I'm not going around telling everyone their I'm trans. Since my job takes me into clients homes only those people who knew me before have any clue otherwise they know nothing of my past and that is the way I plan to keep unless the need arises. They know me as Mariah and that is that.
Mariah
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Anna-Maria on March 06, 2015, 12:09:33 PM
I´m a Legal Counsel in a bank and recently  I came out  to my supervisor. I asked him for a personal meeting and I was super anxious before and hell, I didn´t know how but eventually I told him blatantly that I´m trans and on hormones and I´m planning to transition at the workplace.

Astonishingly all went so fine, I´ve never even dared to imagine. He was supportive from the very beginning and being a liberal and a  father of 4 daughters obviously gave him a deeper sense of understanding for feminity. In our discourse he suddenly confessed that he just guessed for quite a time before our meeting that something´s up with me and he was literally the first person I´ve ever met who guessed that I might be trans. I sat there like I was struck by a lightning. He immediately assured me for every possible support, he is backing me up and he led talks with HR and they´re absolutely fine with me transitioning at the workplace also. In a few weeks we´re going to start individual talks with the colleagues at the Legal Department. I think, coming top-down with this issue and the fact that most of my colleagues are really nice and liberal people (we are counting approximately 70% women in the department) gave me a pretty improvement in confidence.

I´m so happy about this!  :D

xoxo
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Devlyn on March 06, 2015, 12:21:04 PM
I voted Yes, by choice. It's a small company, and they love their Devlyn!   :-*

Hugs, Devlyn
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: DogSpirit on March 23, 2016, 06:47:12 PM
I'm a work-at-home freelancer now, but I outed myself at the interview for my previous employer. I wanted to set that tone, and my employer was fine about it. (My "outing" was simply that I was a married gay woman.) Actually he was better than fine. He gave me a project one day with the introduction that it was "right up my alley": a collection of readings on deviant behavior. I loved his sense of humor.

-- Sue
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: SophiaBleu on April 11, 2016, 01:33:12 AM
I'm not out at work yet, but considering my FB page and all the trans stuff I post to it, also considering that a lot of my friends on FB are work mates. I'm sure they think something...
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Kylo on April 11, 2016, 04:31:03 PM
Interesting question... there's no way for people to know unless I broadcast it, as I'm self-employed and sell my works via the internet.

I don't see broadcasting it in my profession as advantageous or even relevant, really. My works don't have a trans theme. If they did, it would probably be very advantageous to be out and proud, so to speak, and might even mean I sold more in the right areas. But they don't and it would probably alienate or disgust a few buyers if I mentioned it in my listings, or on the "about me" information for my stores. If it's something I can possibly keep as private as I can, I will. I wasn't sure if I'd want to be out in the years before now, but at this point I don't think it's necessary to be out to customers. It just seems like TMI in this case.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: HappyMoni on April 11, 2016, 08:30:06 PM
I am out at work. I personally told about 80 people and it went extremely well. I work in the school system and know many parents pretty well. My problem is that I am not out to them. I don't know how to handle coming back next year after FFS and presenting as Moni. Does anyone have experience coming out to parents in a school setting? There is no way to hide and I am not changing schools.
Moni
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: arice on April 11, 2016, 09:28:12 PM
I don't work now. When I did work, I was very free to be myself. I never came out per se but I didn't need to. I was seen as a guy even without ever saying anything or transitioning. I acted like one and was therefore treated as one no questions asked.
The only time anyone cared about my sex/gender was when management decreed that I couldn't share a hotel room with male technicians when we were in the field... so I missed out on a major 3 province trip because we didn't have the grant funding for two hotel rooms.

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Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: steyraug96 on April 12, 2016, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 11, 2016, 08:30:06 PM
I am out at work. I personally told about 80 people and it went extremely well. I work in the school system and know many parents pretty well. My problem is that I am not out to them. I don't know how to handle coming back next year after FFS and presenting as Moni. Does anyone have experience coming out to parents in a school setting? There is no way to hide and I am not changing schools.
Moni

Wish I had answers for you.
In my situation, I'm hoping to be taken for female first, and then use the law as a shield. (I'm living in a blue state that's fairly accepting. If I could get them to care about the IMPORTANT differences, and STOP caring about the BS ones, it'd be perfect - but neither here nor there...)

It SOUNDS like, you should be able to either BS your way through it ("I had work done" should anyone ask; could be an accident, could be vanity, could be none of their business.  ;-) )
Or you officially leave, and are someone new.
A cousin, maybe.  Again, if anyone cares, asks, and you're willing to tell them.

But I'm in a technical role, and my skills are far more important than my looks. (I'm hardly the ugliest person here.  ;-)  )

-Dianna
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: sparrow on April 12, 2016, 10:47:25 AM
Yes... ish.  My wardrobe is all over the map.  I wear a purse to/from work, I wear women's skinny jeans, cardigans, bright saturated colors... 100% women's clothes except for one men's shirt, actually.  But only 4 people know:  HR and my supervisor, since we're planning my "gender rollout" and another two people because they randomly intersected my outside life.  I recently bought a bunch of work-appropriate dresses and skirts, and I'll bust 'em out the day after rollout.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: DogSpirit on April 13, 2016, 06:35:51 PM
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 11, 2016, 08:30:06 PM
I am out at work. I personally told about 80 people and it went extremely well. I work in the school system and know many parents pretty well. My problem is that I am not out to them. I don't know how to handle coming back next year after FFS and presenting as Moni. Does anyone have experience coming out to parents in a school setting? There is no way to hide and I am not changing schools.
Moni

I salute your courage: a school system would seem to be an especially difficult situation for gender truthfulness in many ways. Yet such good people work in school systems. I hope Moni is accepted kindly.

-- Sue
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: HappyMoni on April 15, 2016, 07:27:23 PM
Quote from: DogSpirit on April 13, 2016, 06:35:51 PM
I salute your courage: a school system would seem to be an especially difficult situation for gender truthfulness in many ways. Yet such good people work in school systems. I hope Moni is accepted kindly.

-- Sue
Thanks, Sue! I work with amazing people. They have been incredibly kind.
Quote from: steyraug96 on April 12, 2016, 10:39:01 AM
Wish I had answers for you.

It SOUNDS like, you should be able to either BS your way through it ("I had work done" should anyone ask; could be an accident, could be vanity, could be none of their business.  ;-) )
Or you officially leave, and are someone new.
A cousin, maybe.  Again, if anyone cares, asks, and you're willing to tell them.

-Dianna
Dianna, this actually helped. I realized I can not lie about this. I work with students with autism, so I am very close to some parents. Any deception would not be right. I am just afraid the principal will move me to avoid problems with parents. I dread the thought of losing my "guys." I need to tell my most familiar parent and hope for the best, I guess.
Moni
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: JayceeTG on November 10, 2016, 10:47:36 AM
I am not out at work and I am not sure I would get that much of a positive vibe from people if I did. Plus I live full time as a man anyway so I would only come out if I was on hormones and started to see body changes because hiding breasts would be hard to do lol
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Jin on November 10, 2016, 11:05:58 AM
It was pretty obvious when I showed up on day 2 in a dress and heels. Never had to say anything to anyone, I just let them see me as I am. Some days I dress male, some days I dress female. And some days I mix styles. Why not be open with yourself?
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Sspar on November 10, 2016, 11:38:57 PM
Best advice for coming out at work.. positive attitude and own it 100%
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: sarah1972 on November 11, 2016, 06:38:19 AM
Out to one person at work and two at a customers (main customers I work with). I guess once HRT starts kicking in, I have to tell more...
I am working home office and over the years have been more at the above two mentioned customers than I have been in any corporate office, so I guess letting them know is almost more important since I spend a whole lot of time time there and it is getting harder by the day to hide...
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: eyesk8rboi on July 05, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
I chose I'm only out to certain people....

I'm not technically out, but I wouldn't say I'm in.
I haven't had an official conversation with management, but I haven't done anything to try and hide it either. -shrugs-
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: RobynD on July 05, 2017, 10:39:10 AM
Self-Employed with a company that has a business partner, employees and contractors. Have been out since 2014 before HRT but basically they had seen me dress and present feminine well before that.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Julia1996 on July 05, 2017, 11:44:29 AM
I'm out at work but they totally don't care. Except for when I told them I was trans when I started working there no one has ever said anything about it or asked me any questions about it. I don't think any of my customers knows. At least that I know about anyway.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Megan. on July 05, 2017, 11:49:06 AM
Yes,  I work in the UK for a major international business,  I'm out, visible and an active member of our LGBT network. X

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Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Mirath on July 23, 2017, 11:35:17 AM
I came out at work Thursday before last (about 4 days after my team leader witnessed my Deed Poll). I expected it to go a lot worse than it was, but maybe that's because I wasn't the first trans person there - I guess if I had been the first then it would have been a different story.

They don't seem to care.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: CynthiaAnn on March 21, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
Yes, I am fully out at work since 2013. Many newer people I work with have no idea of my past, I like those relationships !
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: NatalieRene on March 21, 2019, 01:53:02 PM
I came out when I was transitioning but since completing I haven't mentioned it to any other employer. So I'm post op and not out but I work as female so I guess you could say for work I am stealth.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Sophiaprincess2019 on March 21, 2019, 02:01:32 PM
I interviewed and disclosed I was trans during both interviews. They accepted me with open hearts and arms! Couldn't be more happy! I think it was easier being open form the beginning, no hiding or wondering who might find out and when. Definitely set my mind at ease.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Megan. on March 21, 2019, 03:45:27 PM
They published an article/interview on me with photography on our corporate intranet that became the most read ever, 20k reads. Also my face (with others)  fronts the homepage of our LGBT network; so yes, I reckon I'm out ROFL!


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Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Victoria L. on April 03, 2019, 12:57:48 PM
No, and even if I start transitioning right now, I'd best keep it to myself. My job has a relatively small crew that is pretty tight-knit (I say that, but... There is drama lol). With my foot problems right now, it is really bad when I have to work by myself. Thus, not ostracizing myself is important, otherwise they might all turn on me and leave me by myself. Most of them are middle-aged or older, and I can not tell you how a single one of them would react. Well, I can say I know some would not react well. So it's more of a matter of I can't say that any of them would be supportive.
Title: Re: Are you out at work?
Post by: Margrit on May 26, 2019, 01:15:22 PM
Yes, by choice