Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, because of a screw-up with my doctor, I've been off hormones this week and just got my refill today.  There's something odd though, about this week...I've been in the middle of the worst depression of my life.  Since going off of them...I don't feel as emotional, I don't feel like a mess anymore, and it makes me wonder if my brain really was made to run on female hormones.  I want to be on hormones, and I love what they've done to my body (hopefully they'll do more though).  However, I did not experience the mental clarity everyone has told me I would have when I started hrt.  And, I didn't really...idk.  Does this mean I'm not really trans?  I want to be.  I don't know.  I don't want to go back, but...what if I just think I'm a woman, but I'm not?  I've just been feeling so dissatisfied with things lately, and now feeling GOOD after stopping E is really scary for me.  I don't want to go back.  Should I?

I'm opening up the discussion to any ideas, really.

And before anyone tells me to see a gender therapist, I do not have one nor do I have access to one right now because of where my college is and how difficult it is to get anywhere.

Do what feels right for you hun. You are intelligent and can make your own decision without us. We all experience things differently.

*hugs*

Hmm, that is a tough one.  How long have you been on hormones?
For me, after starting HRT my mind kind of did a reset.. that was then.. when I was on T and this is now.. on E.
As time went on, I realized just how trans I was and finally totally accepted my fate.
At this point, not only am I like totally female, I see the world from a female perspective.
So, that is interesting that you are questioning it.. and that is not a bad thing at all.
Last thing you want to do is make a mistake and regret it.. I don't feel I made a mistake but miss my old life in many ways.
So, I commend you on reaching out.. hopefully some other girls can help more than I can.
Dodie

I would think asking yourself these big questions about your identity based on being off hormones for a week is not a great thing to do.  I'm sure it has some effect on your body and mind by the end of a week, but there could be so many other factors as well. Also, I would think the long term effects of going off them would be drastically different than what you are feeling now. But I have no personal experience with it, these are all assumptions on my part.

I don't want to think i've made a mistake either; the last thing I want is to have to transition at a much older age where things would be more difficult.  I've been on hrt for two years.

We don't all get affected by hormones the same way. Only you can answer if transitioning is right for you and if hormones are. You need to discover what you need and what makes you happy because in the end that is all that really matters. Just because you were off them for a week doesn't mean if you were off them a lot longer time that you wouldn't feel a lot worse all over again instead of better. Whatever route you choose I hope you can find some peace and solace in it. Hugs
Mariah

I wouldn't agree with the statement that being on HRT necessarily brings clarity and peace of mind. Plenty of ladies on this site on HRT who are often quite depressed. When I was on hormones during transition 1.0 I was an utter emotional wreck, especially at the two year mark. I had a lot of stuff going on in my life at the time, I was under stress about transitioning and whole raft of other issues. Coming off HRT saw me ultimately get my brain and my $#*% together. This time, transition 2.0, it has been remarkably smooth sailing - thank goodness, and I hope it continues. What has changed? Yes, I'm older, yes I'm on different HRT and different delivery (most notably implant not injection for E)...but surely that can't be it? I guess I'm also less prone to depression now, I'm able to see that unfavourable events and situations aren't necessarily the end of my world. So maybe that's the difference, I don't know. I wasn't ready to transition twenty years ago but seems I am now. Do I regret not seeing it through the first time or not giving it another go sooner? Sometimes, but I did what I did in order to survive. You have to make your own choices about what you feel is right for you.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 06, 2015, 08:46:17 PM
I don't want to think i've made a mistake either; the last thing I want is to have to transition at a much older age where things would be more difficult.  I've been on hrt for two years.

Hi,

Have you discussed your mental fogginess while on hormones with your doctor/endo?  I can't believe you're the first to experience this.  I don't know but perhaps it's a dosage issue or maybe the way you administer?  Are your hormone levels good?

Just a thought,
Paige :)

I hope you ladies don't mind my intrusion.

From my experience having completely gone through female puberty before starting my hormones, and being surrounded by teenage females going through puberty, female puberty is a roller coaster of emotions and a little bit of fun, but mainly emotions. Heaps of them, all over the place. Now that I'm on T, when I get overtly angry and/or aggressive, I try to remember that I'm currently like.. a 13 year old boy.

Ultimately the decision is up to you, but my advice is that if you're happy with transitioning, and you know that's what you want, perhaps simply seeking a therapist or counselor to help you through the roller coaster of estrogen is the best option.

There are quite a few therapists that do sessions over skype.  If cost is a concern, many have sliding scales. 

I've had gaps a few times, and I found the longer I'd been on hormones the longer it took for the negative feelings to come back.

Do you Journal?

I found that when I started that journaling gave me a pre-stress warning on where my mind vs soul was.

Also here on the forum is a great tool to use.

Look back over your posts that you have made. Just yours and see if you can find a common issue, word or even a feeling. This is a way to see maybe what you have written about has already given you a answer?

Transition is a true marathon. sometimes we need to stop and re-fuel the body.

Breathe, Confidence I can not stress enough, with out confidence you are just existing and not living.

So look back and see what is your story. You been writing it since you have been here at Susans.

Hugs

Someone already mentioned this, but my first thought is that maybe your dosage/levels need to be adjusted a little, or perhaps switching to a new method would help you. I know plenty of people have told me they felt better on one verses the other (injection vs pills, just to give an example). Or, it seems some people don't handle a particular brand of anti-androgen well. Switching to a different brand of that or estrogen might help, too. These are all things you could discuss with your endocrinologist.

As for the supposed mental magic of being on hormones, I've yet to experience it, either. I felt a little better after I took my first doses, but it seems like it was just the excitement of finally being on them and the feeling of moving forward than any actual mental... err... 'transition,' I suppose you could call it. I seem just as prone to depression as before. I had what I'd consider a female thought pattern and female emotional responses before, and nothing really seems to have changed. I've been extremely down the past few days and have missed a bunch of doses (normally I take them three times a day orally). I didn't feel any different. I feel a little better being on them, if for no other reason than I know I'm not going to experience a physical transition without them, but... Other than softening my skin, I'm starting to wonder if these things are doing anything at all for me. It's pretty disappointing.

If I felt better off the HRT, I would have concluded that I am not really female-gendered, but rather a non-binary person who would have liked to be female. Therefore, I do think it should give one pause if the estrogen does not feel right. Supposedly, the estrogens can be very unpleasant for people who were not meant to be female. I know how painful it can be to want something that does not feel right, but in the end you will be happier if you can accept yourself, whichever way that is or somewhere in between. :-\

Before giving up on transitioning, however, I would agree with those who recommend adjusting dosages and route of administration. Estrogens can feel very different depending on how they are taken, and no one method or level is right for everyone.

Remember, though, that there is a difference between estrogens and anti-androgens. Most anti-androgens are actually androgenic themselves, including spironolactone and MPA. Even progesterone, usually considered a 'female' hormone, can have androgenic effects. Many trans women, myself included, do not like the physical and emotional effects of spironolactone and progesterone. For me, however, that is because I think they are masculinizing.

For me, estradiol is an effective antidepressant at low levels and has a euphoric effect at higher levels. I love everything about it, the mood swings included; it feels so good to finally 'feel' female. However, it was not until I went on estradiol that I felt confident in my femininity. Without it, I sink into depression and dysphoria in a matter of hours, and no longer feel female. It does give me mental clarity and makes me feel free to express myself. Even my family admits that I look and act more feminine now.

I might suggest discussing matters with your endo.

I am currently on HRT and an antidepressant. You can do the math. ;) HRT and transition alleviated (or more accurately, counterbalanced) depression for a while, but eventually my long-standing issues reasserted themselves. Interestingly, I have been *more strongly* depressed since HRT, because testosterone blunted my emotional affect enough that it also numbed my experience of depression somewhat.

I've also had endless rounds of "am I trans enough" because my story doesn't match the traditional narrative, so I  sympathize with you there. All I can say is, I finally decided to do what made me happy regardless of labels, and let the rest sort itself out. If you're happier off of HRT for a while, then you can go with that, but if you genuinely preferred being on it - then continue, even if you don't think you "deserve" it. We all deserve to have lives that are the most fulfilling and happy-making possible. Don't let someone else's idea of Truly Trans cheat you out of that.

Hi Painter... it's been a while since I weighed in on one of your posts...

Good heavens, if coming off E might have alleviated your depression, it very strongly merits further exploration.  Perhaps it's a question of dosage, or perhaps the type of estrogenic compound you're using, but that can only be determined through some experimentation.

I would really really NOT get hung up about whether you're trans or genderfluid or vegan or whatever if your body can't tolerate one or other type of synthetic estrogen.  At our age estrogen does not maketh the woman - it's what's in your head that does!

When I started therapy my psy asked me what I would do if, for medical reasons, I needed to stop taking estrogen.  Well, it's quite obvious - I'd just continue being The Girl.  I am her, and the chemicals are a help, but are very far from being the reason and justifier for my journey.

xxx
Julia

Hey,

I personally think we shouldn't let the kind of hormones that run in our veins determine how we identify. So if you feel at the moment that female hormones aren't for you, then in my opinion that doesn't mean you're not trans or can't identify as female.

If you feel you want to take a break from HRT and figure out what's going on, I'd say do it (I would consult with my doctor though and get their OK, especially if you're also on a t blocker, you need either e or t in your system).

That said, hormone levels can play an immense part in feeling depressed. I wonder if there's any possibility that your levels aren't in a range where you feel comfortable?

Thanks for the replies so far.

I'm really scared because of this; I really, REALLY want the physical effects of hrt.  I got a refil on my E yesterday, and I'm taking it again.  I still don't have spiro though, and the soonest I can get it is Tuesday which scares me because I worry my body might be begin to revert.  I'm not going to lie, this an a number of other things (passing, and relationship prospects to be specific) do have me seriously considering detransitioning as an option.  It's not something I *want to do*.  I feel very strongly the need to have a female body.  I don't want to lower my dosage because I need my body to keep feminizing-that's why I'm taking them, it has nothing to do with my mind.

If I do stop, I worry that it might cause issues because my doctor might not let me keep taking them after.  I'm not seeing an endocrinologist unfortunately; I just don't have the means to get to one from my collage campus.  I'm really frightened all of a sudden.  What if my body goes back?  I've had some major depression and anxiety issues since starting Estrogen; it really is screwing with my mental health.  But stopping...I don't want my body to go back.  I so desperately want a body I can feel safe in.  I am transexual.  Or do I just want to be transexual?  I am questioning the value of my transition right now, because I'm not happy like this.  Granted, i don't think I'd be happy as a man either, and if my body were to revert like that, I'd probably kill myself.  But if hormones are causing me to spend every night curled in a fetal position on my bed, quietly crying myself to sleep-well, that's a scary thought.  I need to figure out if I should go back.  I don't want to, that's not who I am.  But is transitioning really worth it?  I just don't know.  I really, really wish things could be better but my body is stuck in this disgusting in-between zone and I'm just too tall...I want to be female so badly.  But I feel like I'm failing at it for some reason.  I feel fake, and I know that nobody is ever gong to want me and I'm just losing it right now.  What can I do?  What can I do!?!?!?!?!

Painter : If you want HRT and the body changes, you should go for that. Seriously; it matters a lot to you, and there's no reason to give it up.

I'll mention again that I'm on HRT and antidepressants both. If HRT gives you depression as a side effect (and I'm not saying it does, but if) that's handled like any other lifesaving drug with a side effect - you take another medication to counteract it. Suboptimal maybe, but possible.

*sympathy*

Do you take progesterone?

When I started, I first took just estradiol and I felt calmer and happier.  When spiro was added in it affected how I felt.  It brought me down, and more moody.  For me taking progesterone made me feel normal again and less moody.  I know it does not work that way from everyone, but if you are not, it is something to try.

Painter, woah!!  Slowly!!  Try to see how you can step away from the immediacy of your situation and look at it a little more dispassionately - I know you have the analytical capability to do so, so do so!

You know that your body won't revert overnight if you explore other hormone regimes, and there's no either-or situation even though you are seeing it this way at the minute.  Before you conclude anything in either direction, first explore other treatment regimes.

If you want to talk, you've got my email address, or PM me.

Slowly sister....

xxx
A/J

Your therapist made a suggestion to try to live as a guy for a while... I dunno, maybe you can try that, as hard as it sounds.

As for transition later in life, it's not as hard as people make it out to be. Really.

Some of the body effects you already have will stay, but I am not sure how they will be affected. You may be able to survive on low dose.

You should really have a deep conversation with your therapist.

In the end I think the goal of transition is to get rid of or significantly reduce your dysphoria. Is that goal being accomplished?

Kate-but my therapist was wrong.  She wasn't a gender specialist, and I dknt want to live as male.  Besides, I don't see a therapist anymore.  I couldn't deal with her.

Hi Painter,

I am concerned you are crying ever night and are depressed. You said you are in an in-between state. Naturally you will question your future relationships and want to be feminized because you said you are a transsexual.

Going off your meds for one week will not cause the male hormones to rise significantly. If you were off your meds for a  while then the T will return and with a vengeance so will the dysphoria. E will increase your emotional state and depression and stress will also increase your emotional state. You may want to discuss with your doctor an antidepressant.

Cycling hormones is not a good thing to do frequently.

A good gender therapist (can be done with Skype) can help you work through some of the issues you are having and build your resiliency.

From what I have read from this post and others, to me, you may want to consider inquiring about antidepressants and work with a good gender therapist.

Oh, I almost forgot, you look beautiful in you avatar picture and models are 6'3". I do not know your height but it can be a good thing too.

I'm not a physician, but did you struggle with depression prior to starting HRT? Maybe the depression was pre-existing, and its being exacerbated by using female hormones which can intensify emotions right?

And depression is not something to take lightly, i would definitely recommend doing whatever you can to seek help with it, whether that includes taking meds for it or not. i myself am struggling with a small bout of depression/anxiety right now and I start HRT in 2 days.  So we will see how things improve, or if they are intensified by the HRT.

hang in there!!

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on March 07, 2015, 01:16:46 PM
Painter, woah!!  Slowly!!  Try to see how you can step away from the immediacy of your situation and look at it a little more dispassionately - I know you have the analytical capability to do so, so do so!

You know that your body won't revert overnight if you explore other hormone regimes, and there's no either-or situation even though you are seeing it this way at the minute.  Before you conclude anything in either direction, first explore other treatment regimes.

If you want to talk, you've got my email address, or PM me.

Slowly sister....

Why I love this forum.. help from others like Julia and all the others.  Love this response.....

xxx
A/J

As the girls said, I think new dosages or maybe progesterone could be the solution. The phenomena you are describing is quite common specially in high estrogen dosages: moodiness, anxiety, crying frequently, easily triggered. As you said, this is mainly: (number of things in your life) + (estrogen). You are more sensitive (for the good and the bad), so, if you got issues in your life (those that are disturbing you), the effect on your mood while being under estrogen is gonna be more severe and those things are gonna make you way more sad (as good things should trigger a happier response).

If you ask me, well, first find a dosage or a combo with progesterone to help stabilize your mood and then you will have something to work with. Second, well, begin working in solving those issues (passability, relationships, etc etc). Then, when you are done, prepare yourself to embrace the most valuable and remarkable truth in this existence: GIVING A F*** ABOUT WHAT THAT PEOPLE THINKS. Then, Nirvana.

And please, forget about "being trans enough", "deserving the HRT" or "if you are trans then your body accepts gracefully estrogen even administered in barrels". Come on, from that I have read, you look way too smart for that s**t.

Wednesday- Thanks.  Truely...it's what I needed to hear.  I do hope you're right.

*mod edit per ToS 2

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 09, 2015, 01:56:04 AM
I do hope you're right.

In fact this is the second most valuable and remarkable truth in this existence: wednesday is *always* right. :D

Quote from: Wednesday on March 09, 2015, 10:25:08 AM
In fact this is the second most valuable and remarkable truth in this existence: wednesday is *always* right. :D

I like this chick.. Keeping it real Wednesday.. love ur attitude..
Dodie

Quote from: Dodie on March 10, 2015, 01:21:34 PM
I like this chick.. Keeping it real Wednesday.. love ur attitude..
Dodie

^-^ Thank you so much! Took some time to realize this was the best way/attitude to do things and confront reality. As your quote implies, also for me it's way better no to be loved but staying true to myself than be cherished for what I'm not. This existence is so short and so precious... it's not worth to be wasted on living how other people say you should live it.

Correlation =/= causation. Since being on HRT I have had full scale breakdowns, psychotic episodes, bouts of self harm, suicidal ideation, suicide attempts and now have multiple diagnosed mental health disorders. None of which was caused by the hormones in my body.

The fact that you want to be seen as female and like the changes HRT is having makes it sound like on balance that it's the right choice for you. As it's been said it may be worth looking into your dosages and stuff