Susan's Place Transgender Resources

As I transition, I realize that i could possibly be in danger trans bashing when I present more often. One of my trans friends carries and thinks that I also consider carrying and taking self-defense classes. I am taking her advice seriously, but I am also looking for some advice here and it makes me upset that any money that I spend on a weapon is money that won't be spent on hair removal, surgeries, hormones, therapy, makeup, clothing. Unfortunately trans-bashing is real and can permanently end a transition or leave the victim with extremely serious injuries. I am looking for some guidance on this issue.

Is it really a problem where you live?  Or is it a fear conjured up by reading what happens to some trans people in bad places?


Sure, its always a good idea to be safe, but you can do that without carrying a gun. Watching where you go, when you go, keeping alert of who is around you and what they are doing. Also you can carry a whistle, maybe some mace or taser. Basically stuff that many women have to do.

Learning to defend yourself in hand-to-hand combat is a good place to start. I grew up fighting, was bullied constantly, so I had to learn the hard way. I didn't realise how useful it would be until the first time I went out in girl mode late at night. I had to defend myself against a guy who had managed to clock me while I was downtown...luckily, all it took was me taking a defensive stance and vocalizing that I wasn't about to go down easy.

Knowing self defense is better than not knowing it. Beware, though, the woman who decides to take karate classes to defend herself at age twenty-five?  She's likely to be defending herself from a man who started taking karate at age eight. Drive by a martial arts studio some day. Food for thought.

Disclaimer: Not meant to flame men, karate, or anything else.

Hugs, Devlyn

Learning self defense definitely can help, but I'd like to point out that it should not be a method that you ultimately rely on. There will always be someone out there who is faster, stronger, and more determined than you are. This is true for everyone, and not just trans individuals. This also becomes much less effective when you are assaulted with a weapon.

One other option is getting a gun for self-defense. This works as long as you know how to use it and you realize what the possible consequences of firing it can lead to. Weapons can also be taken from you and used against you, so be careful with this route. Even if you have a gun, knowing other self defense methods are still useful.

Mace or stun guns are great options as well. They will help you defend yourself without the lethal consequences of a firearm. They are also allowed in more public and private locations. I recommend this for most people.

I personally use a combination of all of that, since it doesn't hurt to be too safe. I used to take martial arts lessons and I grew very comfortable with firearms in the military. I still carry a stun gun because I'd rather not have to use either of the other two options until they are absolutely necessary. So far I haven't had to defend myself, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Carrying is good but get some good training. I carry. A word about off body carry - I do not like putting a gun in a purse. I also don't like flashbang bra holsters either. Fanny packs are fine but leg, corset, shoulder and inside the waistband holsters are good too.

Just remember, even if you think you are prepared, it doesn't mean that its a good idea to take that shortcut you don't know well or down that dark alley to save time. Knowing the self defense and/or carrying should never be instead of taking smart precautions and being aware of your surroundings and avoiding certain things just to be safe.  Sadly, sometimes self defense isn't reason enough to keep you out of trouble if you had to use a weapon on someone.

my friend has to work in a somewhat dangerous area and doesn't live in the most trans friendly neighboorhood. The area I live in isn't exactly LGBT friendly but isn't a hot spot for for murders of trans women either. I wouldn't feel entirely safe going out at night not passing except for gay bars or other spaces for LGBT people. In the daytime people might stare and act like I'm some kind of an alien but they are also reasonably civilized for LGBT-phobes (or maybe they have never seen an actual trans person before and have the maturity level of toddlers). Maybe I am a little panicky but it's not like dangerous transphobia in the Midwest is entirely a figment of my imagination either.

My best advice is to avoid situations where you may need to defend yourself from violence.   I don't walk alone unless it's in a very public place.  There are places I won't go at night, and other places I won't even go in broad daylight.  There are certain bars I won't go to anymore, and there are neighborhoods where transwomen are more likely to end up as statistics.

It's fairly easy to avoid the bad neighborhoods where I live, but I'm worried about the group of rednecks/methheads in the wal-mart parking lot who think beating up a trans woman would be good entertainment on a Friday night or the fundamentalist whack job who is frothing at the mouth because they are once again on the losing side of history and decide killing an LGBT person will make them feel better. In any case, people around here are more accepting if you are into guns and gas-guzzling pick up trucks like they are and when I start passing better, I will need to get some Daisy Dukes and a camouflage tube top, or just wear cheap gaudy pajamas to wal-mart;D

Keep in mind that being trans means you are far more likely to be charged for assault for defending yourself than a cis person. And if you are a transwoman of color there is no such thing as a right to defend yourself.

This is one of the things that made it hard for me to accept this path. Luckily for me I'm quite good at taking blows to the head, natural gift and experience. As a man I quite enjoyed very late night strolls. I learned a few skills and intimidating stances and vocalizing are keys to safety. Confidence in your stride is another. Walk briskly, with direction and purpose, never listen to anything on earphones. Keep valuables out of sight. It is safer in a car or on a bicycle than walking. Selective hearing is good too. If someone is trying to engage you verbaly, keep moving and ignore, most people won't persist.

I supose though that my late night walks have reached their endpoint. And I'll probably never get another chance to hug my mugger, I did that once...I can have a silver tongue when I want to...

I made a decision to purchase a pistol today, and at least learn how to shoot. I also got some guidance on recognizing and avoiding bad situations in the first place from some cis girlfriends (things your never really taught growing up as a male in a fairly safe area). I still have a lot of doubts about carrying a pistol though, and still think pepper spray or a taser might be a better option. I don't want to be too paranoid, but I don't think I should pretend that trans bashing never happens either.

Quote from: rachel89 on March 10, 2015, 09:51:41 PM
I made a decision to purchase a pistol today, and at least learn how to shoot. I also got some guidance on recognizing and avoiding bad situations in the first place from some cis girlfriends (things your never really taught growing up as a male in a fairly safe area). I still have a lot of doubts about carrying a pistol though, and still think pepper spray or a taser might be a better option. I don't want to be too paranoid, but I don't think I should pretend that trans bashing never happens either.

Congratulations. But as you said you need to train. Train, train, train. Carrying a pistol you aren't trained how to use is extremely dangerous, IMO. However if you are trained in how to carry it and safely use it you will be good to go.

I would recommend the NRA basic pistol course as well as refuse to be a victim. The former is a general how to use and maintain a firearm and the latter is the flagship self defense course. The NRA basic course may also help qualify you for a concealed carry permit in your state.

Of course avoiding trouble is always best.

Quote from: Jill F on March 09, 2015, 08:29:20 PM
My best advice is to avoid situations where you may need to defend yourself from violence.

Yes. It is the best and the only one solution. If you every have to use a pistol or physical force, you already failed, and those methods are not so much effective, sometimes generating more serious problems.

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on March 11, 2015, 03:06:35 PM
Yes. It is the best and the only one solution. If you every have to use a pistol or physical force, you already failed, and those methods are not so much effective, sometimes generating more serious problems.

barbie~~

I agree with the general premise about avoiding stuff but I disagree about being prepared (I am a former law enforcement officer). Trouble happens when you least expect it. Being prepared is wise. Doesn't even have to be with a firearm because frankly one needs a lot of training before carrying one. But a kubotan or pepper spray or even simply learning to fight back can mean the difference between being killed or getting away.

So far, my approach to this is avoid bad situations, always carry my phone, carry a non-firearm weapon, learn martial arts (I need to get in better shape anyway), learn how to shoot and then make a decision about concealed carry, and avoid bad situations. Or maybe my fear of transphobia is just a little out of control?

Just always be aware of your surroundings.  If something doesn't feel right, then listen to that feeling.  I am not out yet in public, but I am a little paranoid and have gone to riding with a big can of bear repellent and a dashcam that records sound and is on a loop.  I live in an area where the violence is on a rise. 

The best self defence is to not be there.If you have to go to a rough part of town stick to busy well lit streets.If you get into a fight be prepared to fight dirty and take a DNA sample by pulling hair or scratching.Also scratching a face with nails will mark them for a week or so(as well as hurting like hell) and help tracing them.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 07:19:48 PM
I agree with the general premise about avoiding stuff but I disagree about being prepared (I am a former law enforcement officer). Trouble happens when you least expect it. Being prepared is wise. Doesn't even have to be with a firearm because frankly one needs a lot of training before carrying one. But a kubotan or pepper spray or even simply learning to fight back can mean the difference between being killed or getting away.

Yes. There are some differences between my and your country regarding self defense and pistol. Possession of gun is not allowed here. Even excessive self defense can be a serious crime here: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/culture/2014/12/135_169821.html

Yes. My experience tells that suburban areas of major cities of the U.S. are very dangerous. I was once  virtually raped about 12 years ago there. I was just lucky to survive. As I wore high heels, I could not run fast... After than, I did not repeat the same mistake.

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on March 12, 2015, 03:31:09 AM
Yes. There are some differences between my and your country regarding self defense and pistol. Possession of gun is not allowed here. Even excessive self defense can be a serious crime here: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/culture/2014/12/135_169821.html

Yes. My experience tells that suburban areas of major cities of the U.S. are very dangerous. I was once  virtually raped about 12 years ago there. I was just lucky to survive. As I wore high heels, I could not run fast... After than, I did not repeat the same mistake.

barbie~~

Well having lived in the burbs of America's biggest city I've never really had any problems. Then again I carry and I've had to draw my pistol in self defense a few times, most recently being Bridgeport CT, not exactly known for being a nice area. Didn't shoot at anyone, well at least not in my own personal self defense. I would have probably been robbed or dead had I not had my weapon.

Astonishingly enough the places with the fewest restrictions on firearms in the USA have the lowest crime rates. Vermont and Utah come to mind.

But anyway lots of people I know carry, you wouldn't know either unless they told you.

There is no place more dangerous than where I used to live (Venezuela). And let me tell you this, you don't need violence to defeat violence. If you are smart enough, you could get out of any situation just using your words.

I'm not really into the whole gun culture thing that much, I just don't want to be some kind of a martyr for trans people, we have far too many already, I am sick of it, I am sick of having the need for TDOR. I am still coming to a decision on concealed carry, I understand that handguns have many downsides, but I will learn and keep my options open. I wish this thread had no relevance to being trans in the first place.

I come from a horridly homophobic country. Only I know what I underwent until I escaped into the safe haven of Europe. Self defense is such an old-fashioned method. We are women in our head, most of us can't fight physically like dudes(some can though). It wont use a lot specially when they come in gang which is the case most of the time. Well try to walk with an automatic knife or pepper spray(specially if attacked by gangs) and panic alarm. It's how I use to repell random attackers from the streets of my country. They would always hurl projectiles on me as bottles, stones at times would attempt to snatch my wig and much worse stuff.

When I was transitioning I learned Tai Chi which had the benefit of calming and centering myself as well as useful exercise and learning how to defend myself.  The one time I had to face off a thief who was after my shoulder bag all it took was me shifting my stance into a defensive position with a no nonsense expression on my face and he immediately ran off.
Later on I attended karate classes for a while because there was no Tai Chi classes where I was living at the time, but I didn't really like it and many of the form movements were too different to those I already knew.  I don't like guns and even with handguns being illegal here in New Zealand I wouldn't want one.  The problem with weapons is that they can be taken from you and used against you.  I studied Iaido for a while, but purely for the self discipline of being able to properly handle a sharp sword.  There's no way on earth I would want to use a blade of any kind against anyone though and besides it's not exactly a good fit with being a Franciscan.

The only 'weapon' I did carry sometimes was a small plastic snap top container filled with black pepper because pepper spray is illegal here.  Again I did manage to stand off some youths who had been throwing stones at me by holding my pepper pot in my hand in a ready to click the top off kind of stance.  They didn't know what I had and fortunately they were too chicken to find out.

Fort Wayne, isn't that bad, but I wouldn't feel safe not passing at night in a lot of places. my idea of staying safe mostly involves not going alone after dark before passing, not that being female keeps you safe, but not passing exposes you to transphobia. it is a fairly conservative area, so it seems like no one would be in a hurry to help me if I were attacked.

I have not ever been in danger of being bashed or anything like that but I have had scary men come onto me in scary ways.  Being trans increases your risk, but so does just being a woman, don't forget that.

In one situation I am thinking of I felt like I had no way out of it except my wits and I vividly remember being so nervous and wishing maybe I had some kind of a backup if that failed.  On my way back home, once I wriggled out of the situation, I was thinking very seriously about getting some mace to keep in my purse or something like that.  Now that some time has passed though, my feeling is that I eluded trouble by diffusing the situation, NOT escalating it.  Mace could escalate a situation...a gun is the ultimate escalation.  If you have great skill and training, like somebody said they were in law enforcement, yeah I can see a gun being perfectly reasonable to have.  But if not, it just seems like a bad idea to me, certainly for me it's a bad idea.  Mace otoh... idk, it might be smart to have.

I honestly don't know the right answer to self-defense for women, or if the answer is different for trans women with our somewhat elevated risk.  I think the advice to just be careful is good.  I do think I have been very careful, often I feel like I am being hyper-viligant to a fault and I'm going to give myself an ulcer with all the worry.  But, ya know, I think the smart thing is just try not to put yourself in terrible positions.  One time I was being practically groped by two men on the train who would not leave me alone, and I was 1000% safer because it was the middle of the day and the train was full of people.  If I had been alone because it was in the middle of the night, prob a different outcome to that ordeal.

Generally speaking, if you don't put yourself in risk-to-the-max situations you'll almost for sure be fine.  It's mostly ghost stories that drive the fear into our heads and hearts, and maybe I have told some ghost stories of my own in this post.  But honestly, even though I have been scared, I probably have never been in real actual danger.  Also I'm speaking of one or two things that happened to me, but I feel like I'm making it sound like my life is full of terror.  It isn't, like not at all.  I actually don't believe there is any practical risk out there for most of us.  Can bad things happen?  Yes, of course, they DO happen, but the odds are very low if you just approach being alone like a woman and not a man.  Don't go walking out in the middle of the night by yourself!  You simply can't safely do that anymore!  Things like that...

Quote from: AndreaLinda on March 18, 2015, 05:44:14 PM
There is no place more dangerous than where I used to live (Venezuela). And let me tell you this, you don't need violence to defeat violence. If you are smart enough, you could get out of any situation just using your words.

I've been there (I am from Trinidad) you are not kidding!

I'm not sure myself of what to do.

I live in Brazil, and while I don't know its generalized violence or homophobia statistics, it's the country that kills the most ->-bleeped-<-s and transsexual people in the world - second place is Mexico, which has a 4x lower kill count per year, so... of course I try to stay safe, but pretty much everywhere in the city is a dangerous neighborhood, including where I live. I rely mostly on public transportation to get around, as we don't have money to get a car and the traffic jams are insane and a waste of time anyway. I don't have a bicycle either.

I do pass for the most part, including voice-wise, so on that side I'm ok. I've been sexually harrassed and verbally abused by youths back when I didn't though, and while I don't think it'd happen now, Brazil is still not exactly the safest place around in terms of transphobia, homophobia and sexism.

I know a bit of martial arts, enough for self-defense, but I'd likely be seriously injured if someone came at me with a stick or beer bottle or something (which is almost a cultural trait here). And the risk of an aggressor coming at me under the effect of crack, drugs or alcohol is very real, so just a self-defense stance might aggravate it...

If someone loaded with alcohol trys to attack you and you're sober you stand a good chance of winning.I'm no badass but I never lost a fight with a drunk when I was sober

I grew up in Flint, Mi which was the murder capital of the US for many years running.  I never felt like I needed a gun to feel safe.  Now, in middle Missouri I carry a gun in my truck simply because I am trans.  My wife and I get 'that feeling' many times around the city where we work and since Missouri allows a weapon in your vehicle, we carry it.  Some of the people in the neighborhoods I have to drive through will be standing on the corner where there is a stop sign and they stare us down so much that we feel more comfortable with our "force multiplier" in the vehicle.  ;)

Quote from: big kim on April 03, 2015, 01:25:34 PM
I'm no badass but I never lost a fight with a drunk when I was sober

Um ... Kim, the fact that you even got into a fight with a drunk (or anyone) makes you a badass. I have never, in my adult life, either gotten in a fight or been in a place where a fight happened.

I'm uncoordinated, skinny and klutzy. I'm pretty sure that anyone with any level of fighting skill could easily kill me, drunk or sober.

Quote from: big kim on April 03, 2015, 01:25:34 PM
If someone loaded with alcohol trys to attack you and you're sober you stand a good chance of winning.I'm no badass but I never lost a fight with a drunk when I was sober

Yeah. It's just, I don't really walk around armed, and it wouldn't be too fun for a drunkard or two to come at me with a beer bottle, a mace of some sorts or a knife, even if they're drunk. I'd definitely be able to get away if not gotten by surprise, but that relies on an if.

Muggers in Brazil (at least in São Paulo) that'd come at you are often under the effect of either crack or abstinence too, which doesn't lower their fighting progress at all, instead making it so that I most likely can't get away from the situation without either them getting what they want or me getting hurt. Not fun².

Sure, I pass, but if some dude ever attempts to rape me and I'm unprepared I'd be lucky to come out of it alive.

There are hate in every country sadly..

I have an LTC and a couple of guns but never carry. I don't want to put myself in a situation where i can potentially take a life or have a situation turn on me and have that gun used on myself.

Self defense is one of the things I´m going to start out with later this year. Regardless if you believe that there´s a "real" thread to yourself, one must not forget that in this misogynistic world we´re living in, women (whether cis or trans) are in constant danger. Just think about a walk home alone in the darkness. Being in an underground car park at night and you hear a distant noise coming closer,  or just taking the last subway home. There are myriads of situations where you can find yourself trapped in a dangerous situation, being actually attacked, raped, whatever.

For myself, I think Krav Maga provides with the best strategy, self defense tactics and mechanisms to cope with such situations. The idea of Krav Maga is to practice a form of self defense that takes "natural body moves", tenseness, and, of course, your everyday´s clothing into account. Going so far, to provide with courses where you can practice self defense in your everyday´s clothing in an everyday´s surrounding, which is very helpful. You should be able to defend yourself even when wearing high-heels  >:-)

It is very sad that we need to be so very careful and aware, I try to not be alone when I have to enter area's where I suspect trouble, When I need to travel I try to make contact with a local support groups in the area to learn area's to avoid. always be alert and listen to my feelings.
If you choose to use a weapon I highly recomend an advanced training program, I really like front sight they teach muscle memory for weapon alignment, they also have some very defined sessions on knife defense or hand to hand. if you do not have advanced training your risking so much to bring a weapon into an elevated situation.
Either way it is my experience that as a transsexual I was guilty of assault even with witnesses identifing my self defence and believe me jail really just makes the moment much worse, so packing has another risk even if you do not use it permit or not. Most of the kids who are on the new drugs you will not beat into submission if it goes to that level they are beyond pain, only the best tazers will put them down and not ever time.
avoidance is by far the best choice, when it is not possible. not sure yet and hope I never have to find out. I do not want to spend my life in prison now that I am finally starting to live.

I've seen just about everything and none of it scares me more than the thought of becoming someone who is too afraid to go outside without a gun. I feel far safer avoiding dangerous situations than being some kind of martyr for the gun culture who goes out looking for trouble.

Quote from: Jean24 on July 15, 2015, 10:07:20 PM
I've seen just about everything and none of it scares me more than the thought of becoming someone who is too afraid to go outside without a gun. I feel far safer avoiding dangerous situations than being some kind of martyr for the gun culture who goes out looking for trouble.

You have a huge misunderstanding of gun culture. We don't go "looking for trouble." Far from it. The responsible gun owner knows the consequences of pointing a gun - loaded or not - at someone. It can result in serious jail time and loss of their rights to carry or even own firearms.

I carry but I keep it concealed. There are some who carry openly to make a statement but that is direct pushback to gun control efforts. In other words, if people weren't so uptight about firearms and public carry, the open carry people would just leave well alone because they'd get no attention and get bored quickly.

Also, there's no fear. Just preparedness. A police officer doesn't carry her gun because she is scared someone will shoot her. She carries it to be prepared in case a criminal decides to try to take her life and she needs it to defend herself.

Anyway, since I keep it concealed, nobody knows, or at least doesn't tell me they know.

Quote from: iKate on July 19, 2015, 12:10:23 PM
You have a huge misunderstanding of gun culture. We don't go "looking for trouble." Far from it. The responsible gun owner knows the consequences of pointing a gun - loaded or not - at someone. It can result in serious jail time and loss of their rights to carry or even own firearms.
I carry but I keep it concealed. There are some who carry openly to make a statement but that is direct pushback to gun control efforts. In other words, if people weren't so uptight about firearms and public carry, the open carry people would just leave well alone because they'd get no attention and get bored quickly.
Also, there's no fear. Just preparedness. A police officer doesn't carry her gun because she is scared someone will shoot her. She carries it to be prepared in case a criminal decides to try to take her life and she needs it to defend herself.
Anyway, since I keep it concealed, nobody knows, or at least doesn't tell me they know.

The responsible gun owners who subscribe to gun culture have made it incredibly easy for anyone to get a firearm, and openly dare would be criminals to "just try it." That's blatantly asking for trouble. It also ensures that the would be criminal is armed with firearms, making crimes easier to commit and thus carrying becomes more necessary in the first place. If empowerment/looking for trouble isn't their thing, often times it is the fear of the uncertain that leads to it. Of course when someone is afraid they don't want to go through checks and training, they just want the firearm. And again thanks to the lax gun laws that enabled their purchase, the people that they fear are able to take advantage of this too.

The police have to go undergo countless hours of training, tests, and qualifications in order to become officers in the first place. Police officers are also charged with dealing with criminals and that is why they are armed. Joe and Jane gun owner do not necessarily receive any kind of training, nor is it their job to bring in criminals.

As for the stigma around carrying in public, there's a reason for it: You have brought a weapon capable of killing tons of people into a crowded area - like a restaurant or a mall. It's uncomfortable to have someone nearby who feels the need to bring something like that into a place that it doesn't belong.

We are not going to bicker about pro/con of gun ownership nor who gets the last word in about it here.  Keep in mind that this is a support site, folks.  If you aren't offering support, then keep your opinions to yourself on this divisive issue.

 :police:
Okay folks lets please stay on topic. I know that weapons tend to be part of defending ourselves, but this is not a gun thread so lets focus on self defense and not guns. Thanks
Mariah

I can't recommend self defence classes enough, trans or not.
Self defence gives you confidence in a confrontation and that confidence backed up with the right words can prevent abuse escalating to violence.
Unfortunately I now live in a rough area where I've had to rely on my training several times over the last few months, without this combination of tae kwon do & ninjitzu that some workmates taught me two decades ago things could have been much worse.

Quote from: Jean24 on July 19, 2015, 05:20:42 PM
The responsible gun owners who subscribe to gun culture have made it incredibly easy for anyone to get a firearm, and openly dare would be criminals to "just try it." That's blatantly asking for trouble. It also ensures that the would be criminal is armed with firearms, making crimes easier to commit and thus carrying becomes more necessary in the first place. If empowerment/looking for trouble isn't their thing, often times it is the fear of the uncertain that leads to it. Of course when someone is afraid they don't want to go through checks and training, they just want the firearm. And again thanks to the lax gun laws that enabled their purchase, the people that they fear are able to take advantage of this too.

The police have to go undergo countless hours of training, tests, and qualifications in order to become officers in the first place. Police officers are also charged with dealing with criminals and that is why they are armed. Joe and Jane gun owner do not necessarily receive any kind of training, nor is it their job to bring in criminals.

As for the stigma around carrying in public, there's a reason for it: You have brought a weapon capable of killing tons of people into a crowded area - like a restaurant or a mall. It's uncomfortable to have someone nearby who feels the need to bring something like that into a place that it doesn't belong.

Question for you. Have you ever tried to buy a gun? Do you know from experience how "easy" it is?

Concealed carriers are also the most law abiding citizens there are. In most states, to get a permit you can't be a convicted felon, or even have minor charges like drug offenses. In most states training is required.

In Texas they did a study among crimes committed by permit holders and the general population and found that by far that permit holders committed far fewer crimes by a wide margin.

Anyway, I'm not going to convince you, and I will continue to carry but don't worry it's concealed so you won't even know it's there. :)

(And as an ex LEO I can carry in all 50 states)

 :police:
You were warned and that is it. This is not a topic about guns, buy guns, gun ownership or the difficulties of doing any of that. Since we can't seem to stay on topic. Topic locked