Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm MtF, trust me on that. Although my experience doesn't conform to the standard narrative – I never felt like a female, never wanted to play with girly toys, crossdress, etc. – my reactions to my transition have been exactly like other MtFs. I'm thrilled to see myself as a woman, thrilled to be seen by the world as a woman, and thrilled at every physical change that feminizes my body.

But I still "feel" like a man most of the time. This doesn't bother me, and my gender therapist is not concerns. How I live my life is more important than how I feel inside. I am assured that non-binary folks have just as much a right to transition.

Lately though, it's gotten kind of strange. I had SRS last summer so I now have a body that's female from top to bottom and it's strange weird still to be man. Like I'm a man in a woman's body. It's not unpleasant. Actually it's kind of fun, like the kid in the science fiction flick who finds an extra-terrestrial spacecraft and figures out what it can do. I've been given this female body and female life and it's an adventure, in a good way, to find out what all that means. I've started dating men since my surgery after spending the whole rest of my life as a straight male, and it's like I'm exploring a foreign country. I love it, don't want to go back, but it still feels really alien.

Can anyone else relate?

Not all girls are attracted to traditional female things. There are cis girls that are mechanics and interested in cars, motocross drivers, truck drivers etc.

Though we tend as people, to be gravitate to either being male or female, that doesn't mean there aren't shades of gray in there. The bottom line is that you are happy as you are. You're right. Life is an adventure and for all the stress and soul searching over who we are and whether we need to change our gender, in a way, we are lucky. We have had the opportunity to see both sides of the gender fence. Before we transitioned, be that by passing, HRT and surgery or a combination of both, we were essentially able to observe the other gender's world whether we partook in it or not. We also live in the gender we identify with and now see that world.

Is there a way you could explain what you mean by "I still feel like a man inside.)? That could be take a few ways. Just trying to understand.

sam1234

That is really interesting that you mention this. I have never been interested in girly things either. I just started hrt last week so it will be fun seeing all the feminizing changes. I wonder if maybe I am non binary as well? My therapist hasn't shown any concern either. I guess I will have to wait a few years to see if I can relate to your experience lol

I sometimes have conflicting feelings that "I'm not trans enough to be more feminine ", while also feeling "I wish I was more feminine." Honestly, knowing that you went through SRS while still feeling non-binary brought me a ton of relief and is very validating.

I can definitely relate. I've always liked girl things. But I've also enjoyed lots of men's stuff too. I had my own workshop and ran a business there. And I still get that old cringe feeling that I'm not real once in a while. I used to get that much more often but now, maybe once a year or so.

I've just learned to accept myself as "me" without limits or lines. Sometimes I don't think of myself as "female' but I can always accept myself as a woman. Does that make sense?

Cindi

What brought me to this thread lol?

I feel like a woman in a man's body at the moment. Its not pleasant.

Theres nothing masculine about me.

Im okay about my male genitals though.... its like okay, I just need to be a woman to the public. But I need to be view as a woman or feminine being psychologically.  Like just to have a man accept me as the girl in the relationship, and if I had a  more feminine face and body shape could be just enough.  I also need long hair and be feminine in general.

Ladyboy-like perhaps.

Its like just enough... for peace of mind.

Quote from: sam1234 on March 10, 2015, 02:28:47 PM
Is there a way you could explain what you mean by "I still feel like a man inside.)? That could be take a few ways. Just trying to understand.

My understanding of my gender is that I'm a man. If you shook me awake at 2AM and ask whether I was male or female, I'd say male. In my spacier moments, I wonder why all these straight guys are interested in me since I'm really man.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 11, 2015, 08:26:54 AM
My understanding of my gender is that I'm a man. If you shook me awake at 2AM and ask whether I was male or female, I'd say male. In my spacier moments, I wonder why all these straight guys are interested in me since I'm really man.

Wow, I would say some totally different things (wont give any examples because of ToS). 
Still, I regard myself as human being first and the rest really just "depends on".

Suzi, this reminds me of the Genderbread Person (http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/03/the-genderbread-person-v2-0/) approach to identifying the elements of trans selfhood.

Are you saying that for you, this is true?

Gender identity: mostly "man-ness"
Gender expression: feminine (completely)

Quote from: Eveline on March 11, 2015, 08:51:15 AM
Suzi, this reminds me of the Genderbread Person (http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/03/the-genderbread-person-v2-0/) approach to identifying the elements of trans selfhood.

Are you saying that for you, this is true?

Gender identity: mostly "man-ness"
Gender expression: feminine (completely)

I think there's a third thing that the genderbread man hasn't yet caught up with: Internal gender wiring. What gender are you wired to want to be. For me that would be 100% female.

Wow, that's interesting. So would that split Gender Identity into something like "Perceived Gender Identity" (how you see yourself now) and "Desired Gender Identity" (how you are wired to want to be)?

Quote from: Eveline on March 11, 2015, 09:35:35 AM
Wow, that's interesting. So would that split Gender Identity into something like "Perceived Gender Identity" (how you see yourself now) and "Desired Gender Identity" (how you are wired to want to be)?

Yes. That's the way it feels to me.

I think a lot of people think the two are the same. That being transgender means you "feel like a woman" but are born to a male body. For me, I've never felt like a woman (though nowadays I do once in a while). The way it's felt like to me before and throughout my transition is that something in my brain *wants* me to be a woman while intellectually I still think of myself as a man.

This reminds me of the Imposter Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome), which I have long experienced and which apparently afflicts many successful people.

Quote from: WikipediaNotably, impostor syndrome is particularly common among high-achieving women.

So maybe there's a Gender Identity version of Imposter Syndrome?

Quote from: Eveline on March 11, 2015, 10:00:21 AM
This reminds me of the Imposter Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome), which I have long experienced and which apparently afflicts many successful people.

So maybe there's a Gender Identity version of Imposter Syndrome?

I never thought of it that way. For most of my transition, I felt like an impostor as a trans woman. It felt like I was pretending to be trans so that I'd be allowed to transition and get the female body I've always wanted. It's only in the past few months that I've reached some sort of certainty that I'm every bit as much an MtF as anyone on this forum.

High achieving. Hmm. If you're saying that spending the past 14 years teaching teenagers in the same classroom means I'm high achieving, well I'll take it!

Quote from: AnonymousThose who can, do; those who really can do, teach.

Yay for teachers! :eusa_clap:

yup, but good for you that you can be with a man

Suzi, I can relate to this. In less than 3 months here, I have gone through a couple of changes in how I identify myself, and I still can't get over the feeling of being an impostor here as well as among women even if I were to transition.

Part of it is probably because like you, I was neither interested in 'traditional' girly stuff since childhood nor did I question my gender so strongly until very recently. Even now the dysphoria (physical, mental, social) is troubling and sometimes depressing but not as severe as it seems to be for so many others.

Another part is because I know I can never be a 'complete' woman (sorry but couldn't think of a better term), i.e. once you strip away all the stereotypes and even all the physical stuff that can be changed, what remains as the essential difference between men and women is the reproductive system, which (at least at present) cannot be fully changed. I know it's inappropriate to say because there are cis men and women who partially or fully lack it and they are no less of the gender they identify with, but still, it feels like a block which can't be overcome in fully accepting myself, let alone acceptance by others.
I think there are also skeletal and brain-level differences which cannot be changed but it seems our brains are anyway wired more to the side of female or wanting to be female as you said.

Yet another part is because I wonder whether I will miss some things or not like some new things if I were to transition. Will I be forced to change jobs, maybe my entire career path? Will I be forced to leave my wife? How will I react to male attention, chivalry, chauvinism, prejudice etc?
I have a certain way of looking at each of these right now but I am not sure if it will remain unchanged through transition, and if it changes, which one of that would really be me?

Do I relate? Very much so, of course, on the "opposite side of the fence" (if that applies, which it probably doesn't). I like being seen in the world as male and related to as male, but mostly I see myself as very much in between, and sometimes I think I say or do something so "girly". And I don't actually mind this either. I lead a very trans existence that is very much in the middle of genders.

I don't entirely relate as I don't see myself really as a woman at all. But more in the middle, but having aspects of both.

For the record, I've partially medically transitioned. I have had top surgery but not lower, may not ever have lower. I'm sort of comfortable in that thing of thinking, "I can do whatever I feel like because I'm trans". I don't necessarily dislike penetration, say, because I can just do what I want to.


--Jay

Suzi,  No GF I cannot relate. I've always been a girl or female since as long as I can remember. My body still has some wrong parts on it however I'm all woman. Good luck to you. That must feel so strange.

 Dear Suzi,

What a spectrum we are. I struggle, occasionally, to think what it must have been to be a man. I rarely think of it to be honest. That whole life has gone.

Its hard to be sure, but I think I might be heading down this path myself.

I'm still presenting male, which is messing with my head a bit so I'm not really sure, but its a definite possibility. I'm fine with whatever happens.  I'm happy now, not happy before, that's all that matters.

Quote from: AnonyMs on March 13, 2015, 08:15:59 AM
Its hard to be sure, but I think I might be heading down this path myself.

I'm still presenting male, which is messing with my head a bit so I'm not really sure, but its a definite possibility. I'm fine with whatever happens.  I'm happy now, not happy before, that's all that matters.

It will keep messing with Your head even more, dear, so tread very carefully there to see what works and what does not for You! Doing so sounds easy but in the long-term it does mess with one's head and adds extra stress or even hidden depression. I did that for very very long time, but it becomes emotionally difficult and sometimes people will see You as female irrespective of what You are wearing.

As for the topic of this thread, I am happy now because it seems that my core identity, which was suppressed for decades, was female and now I can enjoy and celebrate it. Nevertheless, I do have urge from time to time to act out in a masculine way, take risks and test my limits - and I do so gladly because it brings emotional joy and sometimes even physical pleasure (dopamine hormone release,huh?) - but if I try to suppress that part of myself, it usually does not end well.

Suzi, you sound a lot like me, although I haven't started transition, so I don't know if I'll feel the same way once I finally stop procrastinating and actually do it.

I can't say I've ever felt male, other than anatomically, so I don't know if I'll feel like a man in a woman's body if/when I do.  I actually talked about some of this with my gender therapist (who I saw for the second time last night -- this one seems pretty good, even gave me the name of a place that does electrolysis for M2Fs.)

When I'm by myself, I don't feel like any gender.  I'm just me.  I put on skirts and dresses and such because I like them, not particularly to be seen as female.  I like building things, too, and the only reason I'm not making windows and rewiring my house is because I now live in an apartment and the management frowns upon such things.  I'm considering the M2F body modifications (HRT, SRS, etc.) because I think I would like looking at myself in the mirror more if I had a more female shape.  (I don't like how male bodies look, even when they're in great shape, unlike mine.)

When I'm dealing with other people, I unthinkingly try to pass as male, but I always feel like it's an act.  It's a way I have to behave so the male tribe won't look too closely and notice I'm actually the wrong species and eliminate me, like "Piggy" in Lord of the Flies.

I wonder if I'll feel the same if/when I transition -- will I feel like I'm just acting "feminine" as a way to keep a low profile and be accepted by my adopted species, as opposed to being myself (whoever that is)?  I hope I'll feel like Suzi, that it's a wonderful adventure, and not that it's simply another disguise that I have to maintain so people won't notice I'm really the wrong species.

(I guess when I grow up, I want to be suzifrommd :) )

Quote from: Asche on March 13, 2015, 01:46:58 PM
I wonder if I'll feel the same if/when I transition -- will I feel like I'm just acting "feminine" as a way to keep a low profile and be accepted by my adopted species, as opposed to being myself (whoever that is)?  I hope I'll feel like Suzi, that it's a wonderful adventure, and not that it's simply another disguise that I have to maintain so people won't notice I'm really the wrong species.

FWIW, Asche, this was a fear I had when I first started thinking of transitioning. From the very first post I ever made about needing to transition (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121680.0.html):

QuoteTop three reasons why I don't think transition is in my future:

3. It takes a lot of work. Shopping, fashion, makeup, all these things I'd have to learn to become a woman. While it sounds like fun to buy pretty things, I can easily see it becoming a chore.

2. ... [nonsense about not wanting SRS]

1. It seems a great deal of pressure to have to "act" like a woman 24 hours 7 days. I don't want to act like anyone but ME.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Quote from: Asche on March 13, 2015, 01:46:58 PM
(I guess when I grow up, I want to be suzifrommd :) )

:icon_smile:

I have thought a lot about why I have never had the feelings of a woman trapped inside a man's body. My feelings about being female are subtle. That said, ignoring these feelings result in a bad case of dysphoria. I have been reading and thinking about my situation and have come up with two cases that could explain my feelings.

When I was very young (7-8 years old), I knew that I was different because of the trans-related feelings. Even at that early age, I decided that no one could discover my secret, so I took on a masculine role for much of my life. Early on, it was awkward being male socially, but I persisted. It was not until I enrolled in college a number of years when I finally reached a point where I was comfortable as a male socially, but the dysphoria never went away. Would my identity today be much clearer had I taken a different approach when I was younger? Possibly.

The second theory comes from reading papers on the topic. There are multiple studies that compare pre-HRT trans brains to that of CIS, and they found significant differences. Generally speaking, brain structure in trans individuals represent an intermediate form between male and female CIS. Transwomen tend to have certain structures closer that of a CIS female, and transmen have similarities with CIS men. Yes, I know it is a big stretch to say that, based on a handful of studies, that structural differences translates to behavioral differences. However if trans brains truly represents intermediate form, then could it be possible that we capture unique characteristics of both genders? Of course this is my interpretation of the studies as a non-expert on the subject, so please keep that in mind.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 13, 2015, 06:55:10 PM
FWIW, Asche, this was a fear I had when I first started thinking of transitioning. From the very first post I ever made about needing to transition (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121680.0.html):

Many thanks for your kind words.  Your replies to me (and most of your posts) always give me hope and make me feel welcomed here at susans.org.

Can relate a little bit. I've long said I'm a lesbian in a gay man's body, but I don't use the word "trapped" because that would imply that it's causing problems for me.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 13, 2015, 08:32:31 AM
It will keep messing with Your head even more, dear, so tread very carefully there to see what works and what does not for You! Doing so sounds easy but in the long-term it does mess with one's head and adds extra stress or even hidden depression. I did that for very very long time, but it becomes emotionally difficult and sometimes people will see You as female irrespective of what You are wearing.

I did the depression bit, not much fun and I'm not doing that again. I tried staying on low dose HRT and nothing else, but the depression more than anything is moving me forward towards transition. Its extremely scary. I may not have a clear idea of where I'm going, but I do know that backwards is not an option.

Assuming I fully transition I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with however I end up male/female internally. I don't feel any need to be the same inside as everyone else, although outside is a different matter. Where Suzi is sounds fine to me.

This may sound silly.

I never ever imagined where I would be, emotionally, physically anything'lly (sorry). this journey is one like no other.

Hormonal, physical. mental, acceptance, perspective, everything changes. I think if you fight it you end up with endless worry and questions. If you go with the flow it is 'why do I feel this way now?' and just enjoy it.

Quote from: Cindy on March 15, 2015, 05:13:25 AM
This may sound silly.

I never ever imagined where I would be, emotionally, physically anything'lly (sorry). this journey is one like no other.

Hormonal, physical. mental, acceptance, perspective, everything changes. I think if you fight it you end up with endless worry and questions. If you go with the flow it is 'why do I feel this way now?' and just enjoy it.

Sounds very sensible to me now, but I'm not sure it would have at the start of my journey.

As I've learned the hard way, if you fight it your only fighting yourself and there's no way you can win that battle. And the harder you fight the more its going to hurt. Obvious in retrospect.

Thank you Suzi for posting here, as there may be others who are like you that need to see this.

Now I'll say that the majority of the time I do feel subtly male (of course, I'm still living in mostly male mode.)  I don't feel male in terms of identifying with much of the male stuff, but I feel just subtly male.  Sometimes I do feel very male (which is IMO still 1/2 male) and other times, especially in "favorable" conditions, I do feel unmistakably female (especially when aided by dressing or talking with my female voice.)

I always feel like i'd be a pariah or be outcast because I've wanted to have a female body, present as female, and enjoy all the womanly things, but not actually be able to say that I'm a female on the inside fully (thus, I'd be seen as a freak, a "sicko that thinks that he has the right to have female privilege!  How dare I!" especially by other women.)  I have to be honest that I've been jealous and wanted to be like the other transwomen, but I am not like them.  I've wanted to be fully justified in transitioning but couldn't.  I've seen the progress that trans people have done and have wanted a piece of the action.

If I allowed myself to feel female all the time, I wouldn't be able to get away with it in male mode because my gestures start being very feminine, and so does my voice.

And there are times when as a woman, like when being with a pretty woman, that my male side comes out and I feel male, and it REALLY irritates me, because I want to be feeling female, plus I do feel like an imposter. 

I really wish there was more representation in the area between transsexuals and cross dressers, including between gender-queer and transsexuals.

Because I'm virtually in the middle now, it has taken a toll on my social life.  I don't feel comfortable making a name for myself and doing progress socially unless I have a solid, presentable identity.  I need something where I can feel comfortable building on.  This is my big challenge now.

Quote from: Katelyn on March 16, 2015, 03:38:30 AM
I always feel like i'd be a pariah or be outcast because I've wanted to have a female body, present as female, and enjoy all the womanly things, but not actually be able to say that I'm a female on the inside fully (thus, I'd be seen as a freak, a "sicko that thinks that he has the right to have female privilege!  How dare I!" especially by other women.)

There is an opinion in some circles that non-binary people aren't "truly trans" and don't "deserve" the gender presentation that works for us.

That's total malarkey.

There is no law that says non-binary people must be relegated to the sidelines as the cheerleaders of the transgender community, cheering on binary trans people as they find the presentation that works for them.

Non-binary people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to transition to the presentation that works for us as anyone else does. Please don't listen to any voice, either within you or from someone else, that tells you otherwise.

I have been thinking about this ever since I flipped the switch and jumped the gender fence. Here are the conclusions that I have come to:

1.  It has become extremely obvious to me for whatever reason that my brain needs a chemical that my body cannot make (estrogen). My prior life without estrogen was really, really..... really bad.

2.  A side effect of taking estrogen is that very obvious changes in my physical appearance will occur.

3.  These physical changes in my appearance have forced me to legally change my name and gender because people were starting to get confused about who I am. I had feminine features before and taking estrogen has enhanced those features.

4.  As a result of legally changing my name and gender I now must interface to the world as a woman, and I must do the kinds of things a woman does to maintain my appearance. Existing in female spaces and dealing with women at a female level comes naturally to me, as do female mannerisms.

5.  I don't particularly mind these changes and extra maintenance per se and I find it kind of neat that I seem to "pass" out in the real world, but I cannot say that these changes were something that I always desired - they were forced on me by the physical changes that were happening because of estrogen.

6.  When someone refers to me as "she" or "mam" it still takes me by surprise. I haven't really gotten comfortable owning those labels.

7.  I still feel like "me"; I really don't feel like a guy or a girl.

There are a lot of things about "his" life that I really miss these days. "Her" life has removed those things that were causing "him" grief, but "her" life is necessarily different than "his" life was. I don't feel like a guy or a girl, but interfacing to the world as a girl works a lot better for me than interfacing to the world as a guy ever did.

I never ever envisioned my life turning out this way, but it did. John Lennon once said that "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" and I think this is right on the money.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 16, 2015, 06:06:23 AM
There is an opinion in some circles that non-binary people aren't "truly trans" and don't "deserve" the gender presentation that works for us.

That's total malarkey.

There is no law that says non-binary people must be relegated to the sidelines as the cheerleaders of the transgender community, cheering on binary trans people as they find the presentation that works for them.

Non-binary people have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to transition to the presentation that works for us as anyone else does. Please don't listen to any voice, either within you or from someone else, that tells you otherwise.

Yes but I'm talking about acceptance from other people, we are social creatures after all.  Trans and gay people have used the "born this way" argument that IMO doesn't really advocate for true acceptance of gender diversity.  I think if we have general acceptance in society will be because people have just gotten more accepting in general, regardless of whether they think its a "choice" or not.  This is more likely in big cities and environments that are not conservative.  However if you want to freely go around the world, it's not safe IMO to be so open about one's inner self (it still isn't safe anyway for trans and gay people in general.)

I think I'm semi-fluid, but always twords female. I think I'm 60-80% female depending on the day. There are a lot of male things I really want to let go of, but struggle with. Aggression is one. I get PISSED off big time at times. I also have experienced days where you can't piss me off no matter how much you try. I like those days SO much better. I actually experienced it once before HRT. I was hoping HRT would give me that the majority of the time, but it hasn't. Fortunately I got one yesterday. I had major issues with my Unreal Engine 4 game, yet it didn't bother me. I had a family in a car drive up to me and all of them tried to insult me. I didn't give a crap.

BTW, I'm not really that much different from other transwomen.  I have many of the same likes and desires to be feminine.  My desire to have sex as a male has been very little to zero, and my desire to have sex as a woman has been much much higher.  My desire to have a female body has been pretty consistent.  I can be really feminine and at my best I'm like a bubbly feminine young woman, and it's all natural to me, like effortless.  I feel female at times.  Just not all the time, and not even sure if I'm more bi or tri-gendered in this regard.

When you've seen some important truth about yourself, it's hard to go back and deny it.  And for me I so much loved being a feminine woman, that it triggered really bad dysphoria that is not as bad as it used to be, but still can be bad at times.  Seeing a very passable transwoman and seeing how she looked before transition can trigger feelings that I'm trapped in a life I don't want, and can still be really painful.