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I hope this topic isn't taboo here...but I really never saw myself as just this, and yet, I don't want HRT, and am not really wanting what's currently offered as SRS, so in a sense I am just a crossdresser, though I've been identifying as genderfluid lately...

What really is the difference?

I don't understand genderfluid. Oh well. My understanding of crossdresser is someone who likes to wear clothes of the opposite gender without needing or wanting to medically transition. I could be wrong.

Quote from: LordKAT on March 15, 2015, 10:28:40 PM
I don't understand genderfluid. Oh well. My understanding of crossdresser is someone who likes to wear clothes of the opposite gender without needing or wanting to medically transition. I could be wrong.

That seems to fit where I am right now. That doesn't mean genderfluid was entirely wrong description of me, though it never felt perfect. The definition I was going with was a dynamic mix of masculine and feminine. Perhaps, the difference, if any, is if one wants to focus more on behavior vs what one feels...or is there something more profound I am missing...

That works too. Either way, it is pretty much 'just' a label.

Yes, it is just a label, but what you label yourself as does change how interactions with others go. Genderfluid is tending to creep others out with it's multiple personality connotations...

I think the difference between a cross-dresser and a trans woman would be that cross-dressers have no cross-gender identity. Despite wearing the clothes and adornments of the opposite sex, they still identify as their birth sex, and have no problems with that either socially or bodily. But they like to express themselves in the manner of the opposite sex. A male cross-dresser would probably see their cross-dressing more as "expressing their feminine side," in the manner that it purely is presentational self-expression, but without actually wanting to be a woman physically or socially. He would be content living his life as a man who expresses himself in feminine ways.

A transsexual person identifies as the opposite sex irregardless of clothes and adornments. What's important to them is either having the body of the opposite sex, or being socially accepted as a member of the opposite sex. They want to be treated as the opposite sex always, and their fundamental gender identity, how they see themselves, is that of the opposite sex. A crossdresser presumably identifies as their birth sex, and yet enjoys dressing in ways associated with the other, even though their internal sense of their own gender identity is not actually that of the opposite sex.

Also, presumably, and this is my own opinion, as we're coming toward more cultural acceptance of male-bodied people expressing themselves in feminine ways, I expect that some crossdressers very well might become like the male equivalent of a masculine lesbian... someone who wants to wear clothes that are culturally "supposed" to be for the opposite sex, look beautiful instead of handsome, be able to wear "feminine" things, have longer hair and wear jewelry and the like, and yet still socially be seen as male. Because they're presumably more interested in the feminine things themselves, and in being beautiful, and in being able to be appreciated for that gender expression, than they are about actually being accepted as female by other people.

Genderfluid would be more that your internal sense of which gender you are and which gender you want people to see you as and accept you as changes... it moves between several different identities and desires acceptance as those identities. A genderfluid person would hypothetically dress as a woman because they actually felt like a woman that day, not just because their same unchanging identity just decided being pretty and feminine.

It's a confusing categorization thing, since technically "cross-dresser" is also an umbrella term for someone who wears the clothes and adornments typically associated with the opposite sex, so it really isn't a special separate category that separates it from someone with a transgender identity. So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, anybody... I'm just basing this on my limited experience with the one or two self-identified cross-dressers who come to our local trans* support group.

I don't declare my sexuality. I like who I like. The trans label I try to avoid as much as possible.  Others will label me with out any help, so why give them a label that makes them wonder.

Note: that is how it is for me. You may label yourself as you wish.

"Just a crossdresser" is an phrase similarly demeaning to people in the same way "just a ->-bleeped-<-got" might be in reference to homosexuals. There often seems to be a perceived hierarchy of legitimacy when discussing transsexuality and other conditions that involve similar activities. A "crossdresser" is usually looked down upon as the less valid fetishist or something. I find myself constantly taking issue with the idea, though.

For one thing, what you may be thinking of as "crossdresser" is not just one condition. There are a number of different situations that result in someone of one gender dressing in a way they or others consider that of another gender. For that matter, there are multiple trassexual conditions as well. Personally, I feel you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to fit yourself into a common definition, anyway. In the long run your happiness is going to depend upon establishing your own distinctive self-definition rather than trying to fall into some perceived category. Don't get hung up on labels.

There is nothing dishonorable or demeaning about wishing to perceive yourself as two genders, either serially or simultaneously. That sounds a bit like what some refer to as "bi-gendered". Anyway, being that way is just as legitimate as being gay or bi or "trans". It's who you are.

I have done some research on this topic for my own benefit and this seems to be the perfect opportunity to share what I have found.

First, we are all transgender whether we identify ourselves this way or not.  The difference between a crossdresser and a ->-bleeped-<- is that a ->-bleeped-<- will live their day to day lives as (in the sense of MTF) as a woman whereas a crossdresser dresses from time to time and is more likely to be "in the closet".  I think I read here one time that "a ->-bleeped-<- can't wait to get home to take her bra off and a crossdresser can't wait to get home to put hers on."  That seems to be a very accurate distinction.

The majority of crossdressers are not gay.  Again in the case of MTF crossdressers, we simply have an attraction to all things feminine, usually in the form of feminine clothing.  It is this attraction that drives us to do what we do.  I would actually go out on a limb by saying that I would be willing to bet that crossdressers, when we look at porn, we would prefer lesbian porn.  My reasoning on this is due to the very feminine aspect to it.  I would love to hear other opinions on that.

Another interesting fact is that 7% of the male population are crossdressers (more than 1 in 20).  I think I also read somewhere that the number is likely to be higher than that due to errors in the polls (some people will not give an honest answers no matter what, and others are, but just don't know it nor identify with it).  Either way, 7% is a large number.  Just to put this in perspective, a city of 300,000 will likely have at least 21,000 crossdressers.  That is a lot of people!

I feel like I definitely fit the bill as a crossdresser, do you?

Hope this helps.


 

Quote from: Lyric on March 16, 2015, 10:41:08 AM
"Just a crossdresser" is an phrase similarly demeaning to people in the same way "just a ->-bleeped-<-got" might be in reference to homosexuals. There often seems to be a perceived hierarchy of legitimacy when discussing transsexuality and other conditions that involve similar activities. A "crossdresser" is usually looked down upon as the less valid fetishist or something. I find myself constantly taking issue with the idea, though.

For one thing, what you may be thinking of as "crossdresser" is not just one condition. There are a number of different situations that result in someone of one gender dressing in a way they or others consider that of another gender. For that matter, there are multiple trassexual conditions as well. Personally, I feel you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to fit yourself into a common definition, anyway. In the long run your happiness is going to depend upon establishing your own distinctive self-definition rather than trying to fall into some perceived category. Don't get hung up on labels.

There is nothing dishonorable or demeaning about wishing to perceive yourself as two genders, either serially or simultaneously. That sounds a bit like what some refer to as "bi-gendered". Anyway, being that way is just as legitimate as being gay or bi or "trans". It's who you are.

I have also used bigender as my label from the to time. I'm really more looking for a label not so much for me to fit in with but to quickly describe myself when mislabeled by others, usually as a gay male. I guess bigender works best for that in that it does give the best parallel, I'm not bisexual, I'm bigender... 

I am also a crossdresser, from a more action based perspective, I crossdress, pretty much every chance I can, but I can live with the fact that I have to dress like a guy for work and really for dating women as well...as long as I'm a good looking guy and not some fat slob...

I know I'm far more complicated than can be described in one word also...

Quote from: Patricia2 on March 16, 2015, 04:04:26 PM
I have done some research on this topic for my own benefit and this seems to be the perfect opportunity to share what I have found.

First, we are all transgender whether we identify ourselves this way or not.  The difference between a crossdresser and a ->-bleeped-<- is that a ->-bleeped-<- will live their day to day lives as (in the sense of MTF) as a woman whereas a crossdresser dresses from time to time and is more likely to be "in the closet".  I think I read here one time that "a ->-bleeped-<- can't wait to get home to take her bra off and a crossdresser can't wait to get home to put hers on."  That seems to be a very accurate distinction.

The majority of crossdressers are not gay.  Again in the case of MTF crossdressers, we simply have an attraction to all things feminine, usually in the form of feminine clothing.  It is this attraction that drives us to do what we do.  I would actually go out on a limb by saying that I would be willing to bet that crossdressers, when we look at porn, we would prefer lesbian porn.  My reasoning on this is due to the very feminine aspect to it.  I would love to hear other opinions on that.

Another interesting fact is that 7% of the male population are crossdressers (more than 1 in 20).  I think I also read somewhere that the number is likely to be higher than that due to errors in the polls (some people will not give an honest answers no matter what, and others are, but just don't know it nor identify with it).  Either way, 7% is a large number.  Just to put this in perspective, a city of 300,000 will likely have at least 21,000 crossdressers.  That is a lot of people!

I feel like I definitely fit the bill as a crossdresser, do you?

Hope this helps.

It took while for this to sink in, but that is a lot of people.

I crossdress, but honestly, after some thought, why I do so is that I'm transgender and am not in a position to do anything more about it that wear what I want when I can, and grow my hair longer.

I sometimes think all of these label options just distract me from the reality I just stated. Maybe sometimes, I need that distraction, since I have to have this male persona for work and other reasons, even though I don't want to.

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on March 15, 2015, 10:09:06 PM
I hope this topic isn't taboo here...but I really never saw myself as just this, and yet, I don't want HRT, and am not really wanting what's currently offered as SRS, so in a sense I am just a crossdresser, though I've been identifying as genderfluid lately...

What really is the difference?

A crossdresser (i.e., MtF) is a man who likes feminine things (clothing, perfumes, etc) and wears or uses them. While wearing them, he is still a man. When he changes to male clothing, he is still the same man he was while wearing women's clothing. (Contrast this to a male-bodied pre-HRT MtF TS...she is female in the heart/mind/soul (h/m/s), but male in the body no matter what clothes she is wearing.)

Someone who is genderfluid, as I understand it, is sometimes "male" in the heart/mind/soul realm, and sometimes "female" (keeping in mind, of course, that a binary definition is very inaccurate; gender is best represented by a spectrum, not just the two extreme end points). This person may be physically male or female, but will be female-feeling inside one hour and male the next, or moment to moment, and they simply ride that wave throughout the day. Depending on different things, they may dress girly or guy-y on random days, but inside they transition--like a fluid in a container--from male H/M/S to female H/M/S.

Hope this helps, and that I didn't offend anyone. No intent

What about a "crossdresser" that is on hrt, gets laser hair removal and ffs? Or a transsexual that has no gender dysphoria or conflict with their bio sex? Or how about a trans person that identifies with being trans vs cis polarity?  Trans pride!

Maybe just put anything that doesn't match strict categorical definition in its own catch-all category: non-binary.

Not an argument for the sake of arguing,, surely that castle made of sand will slip into the sea without my having to kick it over. I maintain that categories are useful! They are a great tool used internally - for self discovery, they make you ask interesting questions. Used externally - to label groups or make broad assumptions, not as useful I think.

p.s.  And sadly what about the person who has to fake dysphoria to stay within the dsm guidelines so they can get hrt? Category: LAME

Quote from: Patricia2 on March 16, 2015, 04:04:26 PM
First, we are all transgender whether we identify ourselves this way or not.  The difference between a crossdresser and a ->-bleeped-<- is that a ->-bleeped-<- will live their day to day lives as (in the sense of MTF) as a woman whereas a crossdresser dresses from time to time and is more likely to be "in the closet".  I think I read here one time that "a ->-bleeped-<- can't wait to get home to take her bra off and a crossdresser can't wait to get home to put hers on."  That seems to be a very accurate distinction.

I think you have terms mixed up. A ->-bleeped-<- is a crossdresser.

A transsexual is someone who identifies as someone of the opposite sex. Maybe you're referring to those when you refer to ->-bleeped-<-s. I am not a ->-bleeped-<-, because it goes well beyond clothing for me.

Gender Confirming Surgery does not define a transsexual because there can be post-op, pre-op and non-op.

Transgender is an umbrella term describing many gender variant people.

However I think we illustrate very clearly that there are no hard states either. Some will identify squarely on one side (i.e I am MTF transsexual, I identify as female but I was assigned male at birth). Some won't quite identify on one side and for others it progresses from cross dressing into full transition.

You mean like: I did some crossdressing as a kid that led to a bad case of transvestism for which my doctor prescribed hrt...
Wait... isn't ->-bleeped-<- just Latin for cross dresser?

Quote from: femmebutt on March 18, 2015, 10:22:01 AM
Or a transsexual that has no gender dysphoria or conflict with their bio sex?

A transsexual that has no gender dysphoria or conflict with their bio sex is post-transition transsexual

Yes.tnx for clarifying. And, duh.

I think I hate categories because I hate the word "gender queer". Which is my category: medically transitioning gender queer. Deeply offensive to my linguistic aesthetic sensibilities. And don't start me on "gender fluid"... Sounds like what happens after sex!

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on March 17, 2015, 12:42:51 AM
not some fat slob...

I know I'm far more complicated than can be described in one word also...

Don't let insensitive be one of those words that CAN describe you...

(I'm sorry, I'll leave your thread alone now... too much coffee!)

Categories, like closets, are useful at times but I wouldn't want to live in them!

:)

Maab crossdressers don't identify as female. they put on female clothes and what not for fun not to express themselves in a way that matches their gender identity.

Quote from: femmebutt on March 18, 2015, 12:14:17 PM
You mean like: I did some crossdressing as a kid that led to a bad case of transvestism for which my doctor prescribed hrt...
Wait... isn't ->-bleeped-<- just Latin for cross dresser?

No. Nothing "leads to" anything.

This is the primary difference with transsexuals vs ->-bleeped-<-s (cross dressers).

Transsexuals dress because we want to be aligned with the gender not assigned to us at birth. Dressing doesn't cause us to transition. It may make us realize that we need to transition, but it doesn't cause anything. It simply reveals what was there already.

Understand that for transsexuals dressing is just one aspect. Eventually I hope to reach the point where I am viewed as female no matter what I wear. If you look at some of the posts by MTFs here we are often overjoyed when someone genders us female when we're dressed in male clothing. Male fail and I've experienced it a couple of times and I was extremely happy when it happened.

Sorry if I was misleading, I was just being silly. Jokes!  But I still maintain that a good fitting pair of heels is a gateway drug that leads to harder stuff like Spironolactone. 

Seriously tho, and back to the original post, I think it's a girl inside us that is reaching out for that first pair of stockings. The focus on clothing makes sense to me - what else is most readily available that can have as immediate a transformative impact?  I'm sure some people just like the feel of silky  panties on their body - but they could just as easily reach for a silk scarf or pajamas, etc. And fetishizing the clothes certainly does not necessitate wearing them!  I think (as the OP and) many of us have come to realize that the motivation for dressing is gender related. Dislodging a few repressed blockages and relaxing a too rigid conception of gender roles and/or self image is all that separates the "boys from the gurls."  And yes, sometimes that takes 2 years as the saying goes. In my case and sadly it took a lot longer...

Quote from: amber roskamp on March 18, 2015, 03:57:09 PM
Maab crossdressers don't identify as female. they put on female clothes and what not for fun not to express themselves in a way that matches their gender identity.

It is really this concept and type of crossdresser I don't really understand. I do agree that is fun though...

Thanks everyone for your replies. I think now that I am not entirely genderfluid mentally, though I am situationally fluid, by necessity, and there's also some situations that make me feel like a guy. Mentally, I have always wished I was a girl. If some genie were to give me just one wish, that has always been the one. On the fence still on whether I am going to transition medically, but I'm not going to stop wearing women's clothes, ever. Even though it might limit my choices, I also am not willing to hide who I am from the women I date anymore. Everything seems so clear right now. May it please stay that way.

I think we often start off as "just a crossdresser" - particularly as children. Its the easiest way of coping with gender identity issues and certainly gave me feeling of well-being. For some of us a light bulb then comes on and we realise there is more to it. Dressing as a woman is no longer a transitory moment of pleasure but becomes the new normal. It's what we should be wearing because we are women.

As I embark on my journey wearing my male clothes has become cross-dressing. The relief at throwing away all my male underwear was palpable.

Quote from: femmebutt on March 18, 2015, 11:15:17 PM
Sorry if I was misleading, I was just being silly. Jokes!  But I still maintain that a good fitting pair of heels is a gateway drug that leads to harder stuff like Spironolactone. 

Seriously tho, and back to the original post, I think it's a girl inside us that is reaching out for that first pair of stockings. The focus on clothing makes sense to me - what else is most really available that can have as immediate a transformative impact?  I'm sure some people just like the feel of silky  panties on their body - but they could just as easily reach for a silk scarf or pajamas, etc. And fetishizing the clothes certainly does not necessitate wearing them!  I think (as the OP and) many of us have come to realize that the motivation for dressing is gender related. Dislodging a few repressed blockages and relaxing a too rigid conception of gender roles and/or self image is all that separates the "boys from the gurls."  And yes, sometimes that takes 2 years as the saying goes. In my case and sadly it took a lot longer...

Yup.

Truthfully I do believe a lot of CDs are actually transsexuals. But I think most are not. People like drag queens do it for show, as a form of artistic expression it seems. Not transsexuals. We do it because that is our identity. For example I wear pretty normal clothes. Mostly jeans, t shirt and a sweater. Occasionally I will wear a dress. Always female underwear but pretty drab cotton ones most times. It's my identity, not a show for anyone.

But as I said its a spectrum. People do it for different reasons. Some do it for themselves, they may like the look, the attention or simply like the feel.

It's all good.

For me, I identify as a crossdresser, just a crossdresser. On occasion, and in private, I like to dress in women's clothing. I dress in SECRET, I have one friend who knows in real life, and numerous friends who know in Second Life.

IT is a sexual fetish, that is, I do it because I enjoy it and because I will masturbate while dressed as a woman. I feel a little shame about this, but, 20 years later I can deal with it.

I am only interested in passing as a woman in so far as I'd like to dress correctly and appropriately for my age and size; which is mature and 6-2 @ 190 lbs ( a bit big for a girl ). I am not interested in dressing full time any more than I am interested in taking-on any of the specific clothing from my hobbies on a full time basis. (Garter and suspenders for hockey, spandex shorts for cycling, motor cycle boots as well?)

The private and secret part of this hobby is part of what attracts me to it, I really don't want to discuss it with most people on a regular or irregular basis.

Does that help? It helps me... I confess that I do like the online crossdressing community.. thanks for being cool.

It's unfortunate that people experience shame about such things. I've often thought it odd that the "LGBT" groups are considered together, when the groupings should be a bit different. Transgender describes a person's identity, but does not necessarily describe a condition of sexual desire. "Lesbian", "Gay" and "Bi" all describe a condition of sexual desire. Therefore, I would say that a person like you, Cherry, is more rightly grouped with those than transsexuals. Sexual crossdressers have oddly lacked this kind of respect. Their sexuality is just as valid as any other.

I am a very sexual person, I actually like that about me, and that's a big part of why I'm on the fence on transitioning medically. I'm not really ashamed at this point, though I'm very aware that a lot of people look down upon me for being something other than a masculine guy. I am who I am and I don't like faking being a masculine man, and I'm not even very good at it. I don't want my crossdressing to be some secret I keep. I want to dress and act feminine all the time, and I don't see why I should have to change my body to do so.