Susan's Place Transgender Resources

US Officials: Military Worries About Easing Transgender Ban

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ap-sources-concerns-easing-transgender-ban-military-29887691

Mar 25, 2015, 2:02 PM ET
By LOLITA C. BALDOR Associated Press

U.S. military leaders have expressed reservations about any move to lift the Pentagon's ban on transgender people serving in the armed forces, an issue since Defense Secretary Ash Carter's suggestion that he is open to the idea, officials say.

Carter told troops in Afghanistan that he was open-minded when asked if the Defense Department was planning to remove one of the last gender- or sexuality-based barriers to military service. But some defense officials have said they have broad concerns about the impact of such a change.

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Saw this earlier today.  Thought it was a very interesting article!

I think every one of these issues is a red herring.

House the men with the men and the women with the women. Give them medical care like everyone else.

Problems solved. Didn't take a genius.

All just a cover-up for narrow-mindedness and prejudice.

:eusa_wall:

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 27, 2015, 06:17:12 AM

All just a cover-up for narrow-mindedness and prejudice.

:eusa_wall:

Narrow-mindedness?  In AMERICA?  No!!! 

I couldn't agree with you more.  They are talking about it to talk about it and push the subject to the back burner

Other countries seem to manage OK..

do people really believe that a bullet fired by a transsexual is any less deadly than a bullet fired by cis-gender person?

On the one hand, i don't take it personally as these are basically the same questions the military asked bringing in women, and blacks, and gays.  On the other hand, they've now been through this routine often enough they really should know it's just not a big deal. 

If they can figure out how to integrate women into submarine duty the whole transgender question should be easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 27, 2015, 06:17:12 AM
I think every one of these issues is a red herring.

House the men with the men and the women with the women. Give them medical care like everyone else.

Problems solved. Didn't take a genius.

All just a cover-up for narrow-mindedness and prejudice.

:eusa_wall:

Yes but in an open barracks; what about a woman with a penis or a man with breasts and/or a vagina?

Quote from: mac1 on March 30, 2015, 11:20:02 AM
Yes but in an open barracks; what about a woman with a penis or a man with breasts and/or a vagina?

Yes. What about them? What makes them any different?

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 30, 2015, 07:46:47 PM
Yes. What about them? What makes them any different?

As much as I don't wanna agree, it can cause a problem. Openly gay and lesbians soldiers already get ->-bleeped-<- and, at basic I hear from others and personal experience, get called in because of SHARP and sexual harassment and activity going around simply because of their sexuality. Putting a transgender man in the male bay with other cis-gendered men is only asking for trouble and maybe put the persons safety at risk. Same goes for transgender women. While the females are faster to report "problems" and try getting the person removed, the males will argue and fight first, get authority second.

Like mac1 said, woman with a penis and man with breasts and/or a vagina. That will cause problems because many people aren't really gonna feel comfortable, and reasonably so, showering and changing near another female with a penis. I wouldn't simply because I'm more interested in lady parts and the bottom half just kills it.

Quote from: LatrellHK on March 30, 2015, 08:14:14 PM
As much as I don't wanna agree, it can cause a problem. Openly gay and lesbians soldiers already get ->-bleeped-<- and, at basic I hear from others and personal experience, get called in because of SHARP and sexual harassment and activity going around simply because of their sexuality. Putting a transgender man in the male bay with other cis-gendered men is only asking for trouble and maybe put the persons safety at risk. Same goes for transgender women. While the females are faster to report "problems" and try getting the person removed, the males will argue and fight first, get authority second.

Like mac1 said, woman with a penis and man with breasts and/or a vagina. That will cause problems because many people aren't really gonna feel comfortable, and reasonably so, showering and changing near another female with a penis. I wouldn't simply because I'm more interested in lady parts and the bottom half just kills it.

I do see your point Latre (Nice picture for your avatar by the way!). But couldn't we just look at what they're doing in England, Israiel, Australia, etc? See what they did and what worked? The U.S. isn't the first military to try this. It's been done, so why aren't we simply looking at what our allies did to resolve any issues?

Quote from: LatrellHK on March 30, 2015, 08:14:14 PM
As much as I don't wanna agree, it can cause a problem. Openly gay and lesbians soldiers already get ->-bleeped-<- and, at basic I hear from others and personal experience, get called in because of SHARP and sexual harassment and activity going around simply because of their sexuality. Putting a transgender man in the male bay with other cis-gendered men is only asking for trouble and maybe put the persons safety at risk. Same goes for transgender women. While the females are faster to report "problems" and try getting the person removed, the males will argue and fight first, get authority second.

Like mac1 said, woman with a penis and man with breasts and/or a vagina. That will cause problems because many people aren't really gonna feel comfortable, and reasonably so, showering and changing near another female with a penis. I wouldn't simply because I'm more interested in lady parts and the bottom half just kills it.

How do you think they'd do it? All the countries that allow transgender service have regulations as far as surgeries that are required. So IF it ever happened there certainly would never be any men with vaginas running around a squadbay or shop. If it happened before I'm 30 and after my transition I'd definitely go back in personally.

Quote from: JHeron on March 31, 2015, 12:18:00 AM
How do you think they'd do it? All the countries that allow transgender service have regulations as far as surgeries that are required. So IF it ever happened there certainly would never be any men with vaginas running around a squadbay or shop. If it happened before I'm 30 and after my transition I'd definitely go back in personally.

Odd, I'm not finding any surgical requirements for the Australian Defence Forces..

The Australian Defence Force provides all medical assistance including counselling, HRT and surgery free of charge for Trans troops.

Quote from: LatrellHK on March 30, 2015, 08:14:14 PM
Openly gay and lesbians soldiers already get ->-bleeped-<- and, at basic I hear from others and personal experience, get called in because of SHARP and sexual harassment and activity going around simply because of their sexuality.

And African-American soldiers were harassed by white soldiers. Muslim soldiers were harassed by Christian soldiers. Soldiers from rural areas were harassed by urban soldiers.

Two solutions: (1) Never let a soldier join a unit unless everyone in the unit is exactly like him/her.

or

(2) Train troops and enforce discipline.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 31, 2015, 05:02:39 AM
And African-American soldiers were harassed by white soldiers. Muslim soldiers were harassed by Christian soldiers. Soldiers from rural areas were harassed by urban soldiers.

Two solutions: (1) Never let a soldier join a unit unless everyone in the unit is exactly like him/her.

or

(2) Train troops and enforce discipline.

Sizi I agree with you that it would be great if all barriers could be eliminated and we (cis F, cis M, trans, etc.) could be fully integrated in all areas of life (employment, recreation, sports, communal dorms, restrooms,  locker rooms, shower rooms, etc.).  That degree of respect for each other would be great and should be possible.

As for the military; cis women and men have been integrated in most areas including combat but not yet in communal barracks, restrooms and showers. Given the military environment what do you think would happen if in a communal barracks, restroom or shower you had: (1) just one or two people with a female body or genitals in with all others with a male body and genitals; (2) just one or two people with a male body or genitals in with all others with a female body and genitals?  Both situations could lead to problems but the greatest risk would be for the person with the female body or genitals. At the minimum a more full and balanced integration would be necessary.

Quote from: JHeron on March 31, 2015, 12:18:00 AM
How do you think they'd do it? All the countries that allow transgender service have regulations as far as surgeries that are required. So IF it ever happened there certainly would never be any men with vaginas running around a squadbay or shop. If it happened before I'm 30 and after my transition I'd definitely go back in personally.

I would feel pretty uncomfortable with that, as I don't have plans to have a phalloplasty.  EVER.  The solution can't just be, remove your bits that we don't like.  Not every transman avoids bottom surgery because of the cost, but I don't feel like that ought to remove them from being able to serve if they wanted to.  Also, where does this put any genderqueer folks?  I would assume if one was allowed to join as gender neutral, you'd probably have to choose men or women's quarters anyways, but if someone wnats to be a man or wowman I don't beleive they MUST have their body altered surgically just to fit in...

To fit into the military standard you do. That's just how it is. I'm sorry but as far as the Corps I don't see them making a seperate platoon for those with half surgeries. Boot just wouldn't work that way, especially cause during showers and other things you're completely naked. So while you might be able to get away with a meta surgery the scrutiny you'd get would probably make any trans man go over the rails before they even get to the fleet.

I don't get this at all.  Everyone who is willing to put their ass on the line for the sake of their country has my full respect.  Why the same can't be said for the top US Military brass is beyond me.

The US military, doesn't allow Intersex people to serve as well.

Quote from: Aazhie on April 19, 2015, 05:14:35 PM
I would feel pretty uncomfortable with that, as I don't have plans to have a phalloplasty.  EVER.  The solution can't just be, remove your bits that we don't like.  Not every transman avoids bottom surgery because of the cost, but I don't feel like that ought to remove them from being able to serve if they wanted to.  Also, where does this put any genderqueer folks?  I would assume if one was allowed to join as gender neutral, you'd probably have to choose men or women's quarters anyways, but if someone wnats to be a man or wowman I don't beleive they MUST have their body altered surgically just to fit in...

How do you see yourself fitting in as a man without a penis (with a female crotch with or without a vagina). How would you manage in the barracks, showers, restroom, etc?