Susan's Place Transgender Resources

hmmm, okay, just a question, a curiosity of mine....

what happened/is made of the women who transitioned in the 1950-80 and are now old women? are they well adjusted? are they deep stealth? did they get jobs? how did transition happen back then? how could you access medical care? marry, adopt children?

thankies for the answers!!! input appreciated, especially from the women who transitioned that time but everyone is welcome :)

I'm here - I transitioned originally in 1965 as a child... then because puberty blockers hadn't been invented had to temporarily detransition when puberty hit me at 16 and I could no longer pass - so lived "fully" as a male for almost the first time in my life from late 16 to my early twenties - and at that time in the UK you had to be 21 to get treatment. I actually waited a couple more years and then self transitioned with no medical supervison - presented myself to a sympathetic doctor who arranged my gender confirmation surgery. I've never needed counselling or much in the way of medical supervision.

As for the last part I dispute that I am an "old" lady. I am well adjusted witness the fact that I am now a third year medical student - so I have beaten a LOT of the brightest and best twenty and thirty year olds to gain a precious state funded place (I was actually offered places by FOUR medical schools so this was no fluke either!) I did this while openly declaring my trans history too - so I'll leave it to you to work out whether they think I am well adjusted and stable, because its pretty obvious they do.

As to whether I'm happy - yes beyond a doubt! I've had a great life. I've worked in the early 80's on the NASA space shuttle as an engineer. I worked in broadcasting for the BBC. I've worked with the Royal Navy, I've worked as a consulting engineer on various aerospace projects and now I'm training for medicine. I did all this while openly trans - I have two degrees already - one in physics the other in Creative writing, I'm about to gain a diploma in History of medicine, and God willing in two years I will gain my third degree and be a qualified doctor. My career has spanned from the 1970s and I have no intention of retiring before I hit 80 - so I have about anothe 25 years left.

I've been married twice - once for 5 years and once for 25 years. I've fostered children too. Sadly my partner died a couple of years ago, which was one of the triggers to go study medicine. I've never really encoutered any prejudice or hostility. I had the support of my family from day 1 (aged about 5) when I first expressed my need to be female, and of course my friends, have mostly never known me as anything other than I am now. So I've lived a pretty charmed life really.

I know a lot of this may sound incredible to those who are struggling with some of the terrible hostility I read about on here, and believe me my heart goes out to you. It doesn't seem very fair I know, but there are people here who know me (cindy for one - she wrote one of my testimonials for med-school) and they can largely verify that it really did happen like I say. So yes - life has been exceptionally kind to me.

sounds awesome Jenny!! I wish I could accomplish half of what you did! You see, I'm 18, and I'm worried about my future living as a woman.  Did you happen to meet other trans women? were they successful? how about family reactions? those were different times and transsexualism was still a tabbo, even more than today. I want to have a good life but sometimes it seems so hard.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on April 10, 2015, 06:22:58 PM
sounds awesome Jenny!! I wish I could accomplish half of what you did! You see, I'm 18, and I'm worried about my future living as a woman.  Did you happen to meet other trans women? were they successful? how about family reactions? those were different times and transsexualism was still a tabbo, even more than today. I want to have a good life but sometimes it seems so hard.

Yes - if I'm honest its a mixed bag - some were if anything more successful than me - others not so much, but by and large those of us who started the journey early in life did better than those who started later. The one who struggle are those who get married have two kids and then aged 40 something suddenly decided they needed to be women... By and large those of us who transitioned before our mid twenties achieved a level of passability which means that even if we do decide to live "out" we get accepted pretty well because we look, sound and behave like any other woman.

I don't have a lot of trans friends maybe ten or fifteen - but they've all gone on to make lives for themselves.

Its probably difficult to imagine when you are struggling in the early stages of everything, but it does work out and the horror stories you hear are usually because people have done stupid things!

Stupid things like, going alone to a bar where people hang out that are known to be transphobic, or having sex with a man without first doing him the courtesy of being honest with him - which is apart from anything else just plain bloody rude and disrespectful in my book, or I don't know generally just not respecting other peoples rights and boundaries. If you do that, you blend in, you play it honestly and you respect others - you'll be fine.

People tell me a lot about how transsexuals were less socially acceptable back then, and I suppose thats true, but actually I never once encountered any major problems so you know - I think a lot of it is just fear. The reality wasnt that bad.

Oh you asked about families too. Yes - mostly they were pretty ok. The ones who had a rough time were those unfortunate enough to have parents who practiced churchianity - now note I said CHURCHianity and NOT CHRISTianity - because there is a vast difference.

Many people who profess to be christian and go to church sadly don't understand their faith at all. I call them churchians and they can be a pretty tricky lot! Another of my unlikely achievements is that I have been an auxilary minister in the United Reformed Church. Now in my experience those who get the "judge not lest ye be judged" and the compassion of Jesus, will be fine. Unfortunately some people do not practice christianity but instead are modern day pharisees - and they tend to get all up themsleves and pass "bathroom bills" and all that sort of judgemental false morality harsh cruel rubbish! I'm sure they think they are doing a fine job, but actually they are a bit of an embarrassment to those who do get it. I digress...

Anyway to cut a long story short - mostly families do come around once they get over the initial shock. Its not something that most families expect, and of course the fear reaction makes some people initially seem quite hostile, but eventually when they see that its working for you, they generally come around.

I will add in closing that there are at least three or four other old-timers on Susans. No doubt they will pop up in this thread shortly. For other examples look at Tula (the bond girl), Professor Lynn Conway, April Ashley, I don't know there a lots and lots of us around.

Some of them have been coming back to the community to offer support and encouragement. The most famous example I can think of is Lynn Conway. She was treated by Harry Benjamin himself and was apparently straight, married and had kids before she transitioned. Unfortunately back in those days the kids were taken away because we were deemed mentally ill unfit parents and stuff. She was also fired from her job at IBM for attempting to transition, and after that lived in stealth for a long while. She came back out to offer support to the community in the 90s as well as get recognized for her work at IBM. She remarried (a man) who she has been happily married to for a long while. Won awards from IEEE and stuff, pretty happy ending if you ask me.

I guess I am one of those old-timers.

Childhood was miserable because I never identified as male and certainly did act like one. I got hauled off to a shrink in my early teens for being delusional in not accepting my gender and was threatened with all kinds of nasty stuff (like forced androgen therapy, aversion therapy, and even a lobotomy!). At 16 I was diagnosed "Type VI Transsexual" by Dr. Benjamin in New York and by 17 I had found a sympathetic doctor who started me on HRT. It wasn't until Dr. Biber began doing SRS in Colorado that surgery became a viable option so I was 24 when I finally had SRS in 1974. (It will be 41 years ago this coming Wednesday!) My family disowned me.

Life was great after surgery. I moved straight into deep stealth and never looked back! I was pretty wild at first (repressed sexuality? LOL!) but settled down and got married a couple of years later. My first marriage was a disaster and only lasted 6 months before I walked out - I was incredibly naive! Work became a fairly successful career and I moved a number of times following opportunities.

I married the second time at age 30 but never had children (for reasons unrelated to me). The second marriage lasted 13 years but the career went on for the rest of my working life. I am now 3 years retired.

SRS/transition was a complete cure for body dysphoria but 24 years of a screwed up life left me with lots to learn when starting life as "just a woman". Life wasn't all sunshine and roses - it was a struggle, just as much as it is for any woman - but it was genuine and it was MINE.

I was deep stealth for the first 10 years after SRS - even my first husband didn't know - but after being outed I simply refused to acknowledge the rumours and ignored it all. The gossip faded out and never came back. I have told some of my close friends about my childhood but they simply can't grasp it - it doesn't fit with their perception of me. What strangers think, I could care less.

Had it not been for SRS/transition, I would not have survived to age 25. I am now 65 and have lived a good life so that's 40+ good years I would never have had. For me, there was NO choice, no alternative.

There's a Dutch documenatary called "I am a woman now" about MTF who transitioned during the late 50's/late 60's/early 70's.

Here's a clip...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhxYoXiTBcg

I`m here too..........transitioned as a teen in 1970`s under the somewhat variable care of the British NHS; whom didn`t seem to know whether to treat 'us' as psychiatric patients or deluded sexual deviants......I found myself in the unenviable position of being sat in front of a medical consultant whom knew far less about transsexuality than I did, even as a 16 year-old.
I fell lucky early on, as my newly-qualified family GP (female) had a distant cousin whom was "like me", so I had a much smoother ride with regards to understanding primary healthcare, endocrinology and later on {when they had sorted themselves out} a surgeon to perform GRS.

I had the full support of my dear-parents and that wonderful, unending support made-endurable every one if the many challenges of daily life in a country where the 'News of the World' {tabloid newspaper} then regularly outed those they proclaimed as "gender-benders"{sic} for the shallow-titillation of its readership....I wonder how many innocent lives in transition did that awful-rag, ruin?  :'(

Despite the initial gender 'hiccup' in life, after transition I bloomed physically and intellectually under the magic of HRT & GRS: I worked hard for my Ph.D and enjoyed a full career in scientific research.

Yes, I`m old(er) now........I have long since risen above the negative attitudes of some, and society`s supposed limitations of being too "other".......I`ve dreamed, loved and lived-well in contented happiness........I know that had I not followed this Road less Traveled I would not have survived.

So you were a Christine Evans girl then? She was a little after my time but I've heard interesting things about her work. Surgically I date from the era in the mid 80's when Peter Philip was just handing over to James Dalrymple. This pre-dates even the venerable Mr Michael Royle, who trained the current generation of Uk surgeons (Bellringer & Thomas) and with whose son I ironically went to school.

Who was the shrink you saw? I had a famous run in with the notorious John Randall in 1976 which ended with me telling him he was way crazier than I was. Needless to say he didnt react well... ;D Then again he had just told me that he wouldn't treat me until I was 21 and that in the meantime perhaps I should try being male... (bear in mind that since five I had been living as a demi-girl so that wasnt entirely the answer I was expecting to my request for help) ironically I eventually took his advice and detransitioned for a while. Didn't really suit me though!

Your testimonies are incredible! I'm young and I've expressed my feelings of difference since I was 14, and came out to my mom when I was 17, my parents don't support me at all. In fact, if I don't bring it up, they never do either. I'm scared for the future. I want a job in nursing or some other social job and I hope I can get it. I need this done before i graduate so job prospects are maximized. And I also am worried about passing. Not worried, PARANOID!

And then I have all these issues. who will love me as trans woman? will I be pretty, will guys like me? I've never even kissed or been kissed by anyone. I feel undesirable, and people are uncomfortable around me. It sucks and I feel like a trap not a girl. I wonder how I will be 30 years from now. I can't remain a guy as I would be miserable. And I've went to the gender therapist and am going to start the psychological process, and I'm very afraid.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on April 10, 2015, 06:22:58 PM
sounds awesome Jenny!! I wish I could accomplish half of what you did! You see, I'm 18, and I'm worried about my future living as a woman.  Did you happen to meet other trans women? were they successful? how about family reactions? those were different times and transsexualism was still a tabbo, even more than today. I want to have a good life but sometimes it seems so hard.

I worried about my future too when I transitioned back in 1999, but life is what you make of it. When I transitioned I met a few women who had transitioned long ago. They seemed like just ordinary normal women, you just wouldn't know. I myself probably turned into the same person that they were. The funny thing is, I find myself saying the same things now they that said to me oh so many years ago as well. Don't worry, don't get hung up on the passing thing, just be happy with yourself and do the things you love doing (in excess I might add). With enough time, one can learn the skills of one's gender and fit in perfectly.

Aurora - I get where you are coming from entirely. When you first start out it does seem daunting and not having the support of your parents can be difficult.

On the other hand as I'm sure you probably worked out for yourself, they probably do support "you" they are just frightened because this isnt something they expected to encounter and they don't quite know how to react yet. People tend to try and ignore or become hostile to things they perceive as a threat to their harmony and they are probably terrified of all the same things you are - which of course because they love you they don't want you to face. Unfortunately because they don't know enough to reassure themeselves their only recourse is to fear withdrawl and hostility, and your only solution is to slowly and gently reassure them that its going to be ok. If you can get them to look at some of the more balanced portrayals of this you may be able to help them slowly break through the fear - but its tough to have to do that when you are grappling with it yourself. So I fully empathise!

As for the rest - well hopefully in two years I will be a doctor and I didn't hide my trans background when applying. Now in fairness I think the UK is a little more accepting of this than parts of America so I can understand that if you are in the USA it may be a bit more tricky - but really I don't think you'll have a problem. Just make sure you do as well as you can in any exams because that will be your best defense. People always want able, intelligent, reliable, and hard working employees, so if you can show those qualities then any other aspects are far less important.

Of course I understand that ideally you want to start everyting as soon as you can. That's a natural desire give how you feel.  I wanted to start HRT before puberty but it didn't happen, and in hindsight it hasn't really done me any harm. It's changed who I am for sure, I'm never going to be a delicate hyperfeminine girly type, I'm more of a farmgirl - but realistically it's no big deal, I still get seen as female and I have had no shortage of freinds and lovers of both genders. In reality there is a lot of hype about this early transitioning business. I do think that the later into your twenties you leave things the more difficult it gets, but really the differences between starting at 16 and say 20 are very marginal. So don't fret about what you can't do. Just do tackle what you can.

I think the really important, but arguably difficult, thing to grasp particularly when one is starting out is that the important thing is to aim for authenticity!

I've never tried to "become" female or "appear" this that or the other - I've just concentrated on being authentically myself and left others to decide how to interpret that. In fact I'm constantly suprised that most people seem to find me much more stereotypically female than I think I am.

I think this is genuinely the key to being accepted. If people perceive that you are putting on a big act - a lot of flummary and show for want of a better word, then they start to feel that it is false - and that leads to all the questions. Whereas if you just be yourself then generally people will take you as they find you and you don't get much backlash.

As for finding lovers, the same thing applies. Of course I'm Bi - so I can love men and women, but the important thing to me is that I'm with someone who loves the person I really am - so I've never tried to hide anything, and really my track record speaks for itself - I've had relationships both inside and outside the LGBT community and they have all lasted well and ended on friendly terms.

So fear not - concentrate on finding out who you are - and then learn how best to express that and let the rest take care of itself.

Oh and one more thing... when you are a mother, which one day you may well be, you will come to understand that as a mother you would do anything, and say anything to protect your child from harm, as you see it.

However one of the harsh lessons of being a mother is that as we watch our offspring grow we sometimes realise that we were wrong. I know this because I've been a foster mother to two people, and I know that I've always done what I thought was the best for them. However on occasion I have unintentionally hurt them and done or said the wrong thing. When that time comes around the best one can hope as a parent is that your child will be able to understand that the hurt they suffered was not intentional. I don't know your parents of course, but I'm sure that they actually only want you to be happy, and when you start to blossom, as I know you will, I think you will find that many of your fears were unfounded.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on April 12, 2015, 06:25:36 AM
Your testimonies are incredible! I'm young and I've expressed my feelings of difference since I was 14, and came out to my mom when I was 17, my parents don't support me at all. In fact, if I don't bring it up, they never do either.

You often ask me and others how we led a straight-cis life for so long before transitioning. This is one reason why.

The first reaction from my mom when I showed any cross gender feelings was one of extreme alarm. She was mortified that I would try on her clothes. This was when I was 4 or 5 years old. Later on my dad did his best to turn me into a manly man. Even little things like saying words like "caress" would garner the worst reaction from him. Eventually I just figured it out and shut up. He would take me to some of the rough, manly places such as an old barber shop where the barber looked like an old sailor. Caribbean style, the barber also sold coconuts. I longed to go to the salon to get styled. Having short hair was one of my biggest triggers of dysphoria.

So yeah, I totally "get" not being supported, but I dealt with it by living in denial, trying to lead a "normal" life rather than kicking and screaming. Maybe kicking and screaming would have gotten me transitioned earlier in retrospect. Oh well, you live, you learn. Not for nothing though I got to have kids which I am very happy about. I am 36 now, I am not very old, and I certainly have a lot of life left in me. The good news is that I seem to be responding well to hormones now and I can afford surgeries that I need and I have a lot of physical attributes that already fell into the female range.

Jenny, I realize that now. My parents did hurt me in the past, a lot, I can see now how it was to protect, even if very clumsily. And I'm not a fake person at all, I never lived in denial about these feelings either, and I've always been very very visible as a boy due to my effeminacy or whateva. I'm not putting on an act. Transition is really the option that would best suit me and I can be myself more freely. I have a slim body and a femme voice and mannerisms that give me trouble living as I am now so I guess I will pass with HRT, I hope. I wouldn't change my attitude, mannerisms or personality at all, but I would try to pass physically to keep me safe and so I have more chances in every way.

Yeah, I'm starting the psychological process so hormones may be soon, like in 6 months or so. I don't know for sure. It depends a lot. My mom accepts me not cutting my hair...so maybe we're getting there. I HOPE SO OMG. I want cute guys like me :( Guys don't like me at all, they'd rather kick my butt, it saddens me and it's frustrating. And no gay guy would date me, eva, as I'm too girly for their tastes.

another question: how did guys tell with a woman they're dating being trans back then? DIid they run away? do you have a steady relationship? marriage??

Quote from: Auroramarianna on April 12, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
Jenny, I realize that now. My parents did hurt me in the past, a lot, I can see now how it was to protect, even if very clumsily. And I'm not a fake person at all, I never lived in denial about these feelings either, and I've always been very very visible as a boy due to my effeminacy or whateva. I'm not putting on an act. Transition is really the option that would best suit me and I can be myself more freely. I have a slim body and a femme voice and mannerisms that give me trouble living as I am now so I guess I will pass with HRT, I hope. I wouldn't change my attitude, mannerisms or personality at all, but I would try to pass physically to keep me safe and so I have more chances in every way.

Yeah, I'm starting the psychological process so hormones may be soon, like in 6 months or so. I don't know for sure. It depends a lot. My mom accepts me not cutting my hair...so maybe we're getting there. I HOPE SO OMG. I want cute guys like me :( Guys don't like me at all, they'd rather kick my butt, it saddens me and it's frustrating. And no guy guy would date me, eva, as I'm too girly for their tastes.

Yes I hope you didn't misunderstand me there - I wasn't suggesting for a minute that you were fake - but rather I was trying to answer your expressed fears that other people would see you in that way. You said

Quotewho will love me as trans woman? will I be pretty, will guys like me? I've never even kissed or been kissed by anyone. I feel undesirable, and people are uncomfortable around me. It sucks and I feel like a trap not a girl.

and I was trying to assure you that if you are trying to be authentic to yourself there is no danger that you will be seen as a "trap" and of course people will like you.