Susan's Place Transgender Resources

(Note: I'm approaching this discussion from a mtf perspective, but the genders can be reversed when considering the ftm perspective.)

I've been curious to hear a bit more if anyone has tried to embrace the gender ambiguity possible during transition and every step of it.  I've been thinking about this lately and how it might ease the psychological difficulties of simply trying to pass as the gender you identify with when you haven't fully developed into that appearance and might have certain insecurities about that.

Andreja Pejic is an example, but perhaps not the best example since she already looked so feminine.  In any case, it's an example of someone who was male but androgynous, ambiguous, and feminine, and then all of the sudden underwent the final stage of the transition they always wanted.  This would seem to ease things psychologically as people are practically not surprised at that point and simply accept you as feminine.

I've been thinking that I should, instead of trying to go full time early on, or being upset about either coming off as masculine or not passing along the route to fully transitioning, about whether I might try to embrace a certain androgyny and cherish that in the interim.  I realize that for many people that many not be possible if their dysphoria really puts them off of any aspect of their masculinity.  However, I feel like for those for who the discomfort is at least bearable, it might be a worthwhile consideration insofar as it may make transitioning easier. 

Also, there might be a certain beauty in that in-between stage, that stage of ambiguity.  A stage that represents a certain androgyny that even many female beauty icons capture, including women like Freja Beha Erichsen. 

I won't be happy until I can fully pass as female, but I think it might be a bit easier, at least for people who perhaps might share in a certain shyness about simply having an abrupt change in the face of their peers (and can't, for practical reasons, simply go stealth), to proceed through a certain phase of androgyny, that perhaps one can embrace as beautiful in-itself (despite only being a transitory stage to the final stage).

I'd be curious to hear any experiences or thoughts on the matter (whether for or against)

When I came out and first started my transition I wore skirts like they were a religion because I wanted to take a flying leap into being me.  Looking back it wasn't a great idea and was no doubt strongly influenced by the prevailing medical opinion of the time that you had to live in a fully female role or else the gatekeepers would keep you shut out.  Praise be that those primitive and old fashioned notions have gone because they did a lot of harm.

Eventually I settled into a kind of Dieselpunk/biker girl type of androgyny and things were a lot better after that.  Mostly I wore denim, - jeans and jacket, a femme Tee shirt, official Tomb Raider II baseball cap,  fingerless leather gloves and boots.  Silver jewellery and feather earrings used to feature too with my very long hair either plaited or worn in a ponytail.  I think I used to scare people sometimes and certainly the catcalls became a lot less than they had been.  I certainly was an angry wee thing back then, but at least that androgynous state let me get on with being me and eventually led to me going back to school and studying for a new career.

It's been pretty rough and I'm not a fan of the androgynous state really. I've had such a rough time recently trying to meet friends and s/o that it's led me into depression. ._.

That's a great idea. It's 4:30 am and I can't sleep because I'm thinking about exactly that: how do you present when you change?

How do you deal with the difference? It might be fun to have decent boobs this summer (I'm praying every day!), but it won't be fun to have to wear a top while still looking very much like a guy.

Like you said, I won't be happy until I can fully pass as female. Others may feel different. I don't want to be seen as a drag, not because it's offensive, but because that's not who I am. It's nice and beautiful and I respect those who feel it's them. It's just not me.

Dex, how different is that from the androgyny you mention? Practical example, how do you suggest to solve the swimsuit situation?

For me, the discomfort seems to be more in the middle that in the extremes, just because society is binary and punishes those who are not.

You might find it curious to look into non-binary section of the board ;).

Swimsuits?  I used to wear a black one piece and tuck and tape.  I was living on a coastal island for a while there and the sea was everywhere so not going for a swim when I wanted to was out of the question. 
I would go running on the beaches in the early morning too, running on sand is a good workout.

Well I'd say usually people do a few things that might be noticed and taken as small hints...
growing hair out...
maybe using some kind of clothing of their gender...

and people might kind of notice and say later they have guessed...

Of course its up to you if you want to cherish a state of androgyny...
some people simply make gradual changes, and over time its not that obvious...

but I'd say it also depends on the person... some people prefer a faster change...



Concerning boobs you might try breast massage... a few times a day... you might look it up...

Quote from: Jean24 on April 14, 2015, 03:39:15 AM
I've had such a rough time recently trying to meet friends and s/o that it's led me into depression. ._.

Well sometimes if we remain calm and explain it might help... saying you basically are the same person, with the same sense of humour...
and if you feel better with a certain style it might show... I'd just not overdo it...
often we overthink things...

please reach out if you are depressed... I'd say look for a good counselor or call one of the helplines :
glnh dot org/talkline/
translifeline dot org


hugs

Society only really finds androgyny acceptable in either attractive women or attractive young androgynous men. Andreja Pejic could pull it off because she looked so amazing, whether she was modelling men's or women's clothes. Now imagine, say, Russell Crow trying to pull of an androgynous look.

Quote from: Squircle on April 14, 2015, 04:17:55 AM
Society only really finds androgyny acceptable in either attractive women or attractive young androgynous men. Andreja Pejic could pull it off because she looked so amazing, whether she was modelling men's or women's clothes. Now imagine, say, Russell Crow trying to pull of an androgynous look.

That mental image is going to haunt me for days!  :icon_eek:

Yes, this has been my approach - to own the in-between stage.

I don't feel equivalent to 100% female - yet. It could happen in time.

Putting a focus on the day I reach '95-100%' is to me like living in the future. Which of course is impossible. Furthermore, trying to so do caused me a lot of conflict and discontent.

I can't touch or even imagine the future. But I can own the *now*. I can own being in-between. I can embrace being transsexual.
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Doing all this *has* made things so much smoother and more comfortable for me. I am learning from the experience of transitioning and loving it - instead of feeling discontent and impatient.

Also, doing away with the concept or an image of a future-me has allowed me to really notice and appreciate the progress I am actually making.
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The best thing we can do, is be kind to ourselves - whatever that means and entails for each of us.

I spent countless hours lately thinking of exactly this and I have also decided to embrace this in-between state.

Of course there are days when I get impatient, especially when crossing the wrong mirror with the wrong light ... damn beard. But on other days, I get complimented on how young and svelte I look in this new style and I must admit it feels good !

As for the swimsuit problem raised by Charlotte, I'm thinking of the doing the sporty surf girl style: beach style swimming shorts with a wet shirt. It could work, right ?

Cheers


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I kind of do but I now realize how silly it is.

For me, going out in a femme top and pants is ok but not a dress or skirt? Why? I have pondered this myself often... I'm reaching my breaking point where I'm just going to throw my arms up and dress how I want.

I have lived with ambiguous androgyny most of my life and consider it seriously valid self expression.  Now 2+ years into transition I don't wear skirts and dresses every day like I did the first 6 months.  Sure plenty of people probably still consider me gay and I am not always passable.  Being non binary, it is no big deal ;D  I aspire to care less about what others think of my appearance and appreciate what my friend Julie says; "nobody can misgender me as it all fits."  I also appreciate what SarahBoo says and feel much the same about not feeling or calling myself a woman and living in the here and now.

Quote from: SarahBoo on April 14, 2015, 05:15:27 AM
Yes, this has been my approach - to own the in-between stage.

I don't feel equivalent to 100% female - yet. It could happen in time.

Putting a focus on the day I reach '95-100%' is to me like living in the future. Which of course is impossible. Furthermore, trying to so do caused me a lot of conflict and discontent.

I can't touch or even imagine the future. But I can own the *now*. I can own being in-between. I can embrace being transsexual.
---

Doing all this *has* made things so much smoother and more comfortable for me. I am learning from the experience of transitioning and loving it - instead of feeling discontent and impatient.

Also, doing away with the concept or an image of a future-me has allowed me to really notice and appreciate the progress I am actually making.
---

The best thing we can do, is be kind to ourselves - whatever that means and entails for each of us.

Quote from: Tessa James on April 14, 2015, 04:05:31 PM
I have lived with ambiguous androgyny most of my life and consider it seriously valid self expression. 

Go to the top of the class :~)
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Sometimes one could wonder ... what forum does a 'non-female' male-to-female visit?

The fact is though we are mtf. Gender and sex are different things indeed ...