Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello, I turned 18, almost one month ago, so as I was reading the website even trans women are required to register right? Well, if I decide to not do, what it's going to happen to me? I don't care, I don't want to register, just the thought of registering makes me feel like I am a man, and I'm not, so I'm not going to. That's completely discriminatory.
Why do people even need to do that anyway? I know that no one is probably going to get drafted anymore, but still, it's discriminatory.
No, I haven't changed my gender marker, and just in case, I'm not even an american citizen, I've only lived here 2 years in the US, and I do have a green card (which apparently you still need to register even if you are not a citizen). I'm pretty sure my uncle didn't register, but I can't know for sure. I really hope someone will change this. My family doesn't even know of this selective service stuff, if they knew they would probably want me to actually join the military or something, knowing my mom she would think I would change or something.
Also, I think I read somwhere that you are not allowed to get financial aid for college without registering, is that true?

I heard it on my high school bell announcement too, and I was cringing I really can't. It's a principle, I am not a man and I will not register.

If you do not register you will not be eligible for student financial aid, loans or grants, vocational training under the workforce investment act, government employment or a security clearance.

You will not be able to become a U.S. Citizen unless you register for the selective service.  More information here:

https://www.sss.gov/FSbenefits.htm
 
Transsexuals are not exempt:

SEX GENDER CHANGE / TRANSSEXUAL
Individuals who are born female and have a sex change are not required to register. U.S. citizens or immigrants who are born male and have a sex change are still required to register.

unforutnately unless your gender is legally changed, all males must apply if your planning on using financial aid and such . i had to and its a headache. literally had a recruiter call me a few weeks after my first semest

If your planning to get a US citizen ship and its required just go down and register I know it sucks but its the law and once its done you can more or less just forget about it.   

I joined the military when I turned 18 and got the notice after I went to boot camp and argued with them for a couple years because I thought that I was in the military why should I register for selective service but when I went back home on leave I met the postal clerk (where I was supposed to register) and we talked and he said I understand where your coming from but its the law so just register and then forget about it and if they ever do a draft you can show you did your time. 

So I registered and forgot about it and have only thought about it when applying for jobs and loans when the number was asked for.

I don't think you have to worry if you complete transition as you would be viewed as a woman and I don't see the laws changing to include women in the draft.

Quote from: Emily E on April 18, 2015, 09:56:56 AM
If your planning to get a US citizen ship and its required just go down and register I know it sucks but its the law and once its done you can more or less just forget about it.

I can't forget about it, this is some serious stupidity, that american government need to change, and it's super discriminatory. I feel like crying now, well even if I was about to change my gender marker I would still need to register because it says that you need to because of being assigned male at birth.

though i had to register, i wont be able to be draft because i can claim mental disability which bars me from serving. but i agree, it shouldnt happen but thats what it is

and I don't care that would not be drafted because then I would be considered unfit, then why do you need me to register to begin with? I am not a man.

*shrugs* honestly i really don't know and i dont mess with military laws or political laws. i can't say for anyone else but i think its all superiority. men are naturally built for combat. as long as your genes have the XY chromosome, no matter what you do, to the eyes of the government, your still a man. its like their still stuck in the 40's

You may have been automatically registered when you got your green card, so there's really no getting around it.

It's stupid and it sucks but that's what it is for now. I think all genders should be required to register though.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 10:39:23 AM
and I don't care that would not be drafted because then I would be considered unfit, then why do you need me to register to begin with? I am not a man.

Women serve in the military, and they are even going to be allowed in combat roles sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.

There really isn't going to be a draft unless there's armageddon and in that case you have bigger things to worry about.

Quote from: Emily E on April 18, 2015, 09:56:56 AM

I don't think you have to worry if you complete transition as you would be viewed as a woman and I don't see the laws changing to include women in the draft.

I disagree, I see it happening sooner rather than later. Women are going to be in combat roles by 2016 and with that will come the possibility of a selective service requirement down the line. And why not. Equality and all that good stuff.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 10:39:23 AM
and I don't care that would not be drafted because then I would be considered unfit, then why do you need me to register to begin with? I am not a man.

I would say screw it. Why would they want someone who is not a US citizen anyway? And to top that that you'd be transexual and the US military doesn't like transexuals unlike some other more progressive  countries where they are allowed in the militaryvh.

If you need financial aid for school or if you're ever hoping to have any kind of government job (federal, state, or local), you will unfortunately need to register.

I'm putting in for a bunch of federal jobs right now under my new name and gender marker, and I needed to fill out an exemption form because I was born female and transitioned to male. I don't think it's required for MTFs to fill out the exemption form, but that might make you feel a little better about it? You just need to fill out your personal information and attach copies of your transition documentation.

Quote from: iKate on April 18, 2015, 12:03:48 PM
I disagree, I see it happening sooner rather than later. Women are going to be in combat roles by 2016 and with that will come the possibility of a selective service requirement down the line. And why not. Equality and all that good stuff.

oh I'm sure it will happen but the question is when... this country (the United States) hasn't had an active draft since the Vietnam War in the 60's and other then selective service registration changes nothing about it has really changed.  True there are people running for office as well as anti-war protesters that regularly bring it up trying to scare everyone into seeing their point of view but realistically it's extremely unpopular with everyone... the military doesn't want it (I mean really why would anyone want to have a bunch of people working for them that want nothing more than to be somewhere else) the politicians don't want it because it wouldn't get them reelected... the general public doesn't want it because drafting someone is like grabbing someone and telling them it's their turn to jump into a volcano... no sane person wants it. 

People (men) generally worry about women and don't want to see them hurt... even when a women volunteers herself everyone worries about her.   

The United States had a women who was captured during the gulf war (I forget exactly when) she was serving in a combat support role (which means she was working right alongside the men in combat roles) and if I remember right she was held for like a month before she was found but the whole time she was held everyone was worried about her (with good reason) and what would happen to her... so when you look at events like that you can see that that kind of purposed change would be very unpopular.  In my opinion the equal rights movement will have to be around a long time or the United States would have to be very desperate before that kind of change would pass.

Quote from: CB on April 18, 2015, 12:51:21 PM
I would say screw it. Why would they want someone who is not a US citizen anyway? And to top that that you'd be transexual and the US military doesn't like transexuals unlike some other more progressive  countries where they are allowed in the militaryvh.

There are a lot of non U.S. citizens in the military right now. They can apply for citizenship after a year of service, so that is a huge incentive. As for the military itself they want people to sign up and they aren't really turning them away because there is a need.

Also openly trans people will be included sooner rather than later. Steps are being made.

Just saying "screw it" has more consequences than just not being drafted. You lose federal student aid which is a major component of how college students pay for college. You also cannot take a federal job.

https://www.sss.gov/fsstateleg.htm

27 states have laws that will automatically register you for the selective service when you apply for a driver's license.

It gets even worse if you reach the age of 26 without having registered.  At that point you can never register and will be forever barred from government employment and many benefits.  You will be prevented from attending many state funded universities.

It's great to stand on your principles, but you will pay a heavy price.

basically as a human being you have the freedom to do whatever you want , but you need to accept the consequences of your choices as relating to living within the framework of society.

Quote from: Echo Alcestis on April 18, 2015, 10:46:09 AM
*shrugs* honestly i really don't know and i dont mess with military laws or political laws. i can't say for anyone else but i think its all superiority. men are naturally built for combat. as long as your genes have the XY chromosome, no matter what you do, to the eyes of the government, your still a man. its like their still stuck in the 40's

Not quite true.  I know a girl with CAIS, and can't join  because she's Intersex.  She has a karotype of XY, but is fighting to join.

Ironically, if I wasn't blind and joined, I would have found out about being Intersex a long time ago.

Quote from: Rudy King on April 18, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Not quite true.  I know a girl with CAIS, and can't join  because she's Intersex.  She has a karotype of XY, but is fighting to join.

Ironically, if I wasn't blind and joined, I would have found out about being Intersex a long time ago.

well thats just wrong on so many levels. is she wining the case?

Quote from: Echo Alcestis on April 18, 2015, 07:21:16 PM
well thats just wrong on so many levels. is she wining the case?

So far, no.  she's trying to go up the chain, but no luck.  she's really getting bummed about it, and trying to see if she could join a different branch (she want's to join the Navy).

I guess, because we have medical issues, due to our condution, there afraid we might not be able to heal normally or something?  idk.

Quote from: Rudy King on April 18, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Not quite true.  I know a girl with CAIS, and can't join  because she's Intersex.  She has a karotype of XY, but is fighting to join.

Ironically, if I wasn't blind and joined, I would have found out about being Intersex a long time ago.

Was she AMAB?

Quote from: iKate on April 18, 2015, 07:37:58 PM
Was she AMAB?

No one with CAIS, or Ccomplete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) is ever born male.  Their bodies can't use any of the testosterone that their bodies make.  They are born and raised as girls.

For what it is worth, you can request a SIL or Status information letter and use that instead of registering for the draft.

i wish there was a way to get out of it -.- though i know by the time i even get called, the fighting would be over but still, who knows what they would do next

Quote from: ftmax on April 18, 2015, 12:57:51 PM
I don't think it's required for MTFs to fill out the exemption form, but that might make you feel a little better about it?

No, actually it's even worst, because that's practically just for ftm guys, who would be seen as "women" from this discriminatory program and are not required to register, while I am because assigned male at birth.

Well, I guess I wasn't registered yet, because I needed to for my fasfa application for financial aid, and I had to push the register me thingy, so yeah... I guess, I am registered now, and I feel super bad about it. Again, even if there would never be going to be a draft ever again, it's just the principle, why are trans women required to register, and even if I was to change my gender marker to female, they say on the website that they need all the people to register who were assigned male at birth.

yea and even if you change you marker legally, they will still get you. even if you put F on the application, they run you through the system and thats how they get you. sometimes i wonder if privacy really does exist -.-

You actually are forced to register even if ou are an illegal immigrant here, so me having a green card and being considrred american resident then it's not any less than that, but you know even if this was in Italy (where I was born), it's not about the fact that I don't want to fight to protect something, well first of all, I wouldn't want to, because I am a pacifist, it's the principle that trans women are technically considered men because of the assigned male at birth clause.

And I don't have no freedom, it's either you do this, or you have no way to go to college.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 11:36:14 PM
You actually are forced to register even if ou are an illegal immigrant here, so me having a green card and being considrred american resident then it's not any less than that, but you know even if this was in Italy (where I was born), it's not about the fact that I don't want to fight to protect something, well first of all, I wouldn't want to, because I am a pacifist, it's the principle that trans women are technically considered men because of the assigned male at birth clause.

And I don't have no freedom, it's either you do this, or you have no way to go to college.

You can. You just can't get federal student aid.

Quote from: Echo Alcestis on April 18, 2015, 11:35:13 PM
yea and even if you change you marker legally, they will still get you. even if you put F on the application, they run you through the system and thats how they get you. sometimes i wonder if privacy really does exist -.-

It doesn't. Snowden should have showed you that. :)

Quote from: iKate on April 18, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
It doesn't. Snowden should have showed you that. :)

seriously? dang it all. i hate our government sometimes. actually scratch that, hate is to strong. i strongly dislike our government. i should really be asleep right now. working the graveyard shift tomorrow.

Increasingly it's ourselves. We walk around with portable GPS trackers and share so much information about ourselves to complete strangers.

Quote from: iKate on April 18, 2015, 11:37:52 PM
You can. You just can't get federal student aid.

No I can't afford college. Here in the us is too expensive, and even if it wasn't, it still is for me.

Quote from: iKate on April 18, 2015, 11:42:38 PM
Increasingly it's ourselves. We walk around with portable GPS trackers and share so much information about ourselves to complete strangers.

in the name of the anime "welcome to NHK" i call conspiracy xD joking. dont need to think of those theories right now.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 11:43:09 PM
No I can't afford college. Here in the us is too expensive, and even if it wasn't, it still is for me.

Local community colleges are very low cost. However I think state run ones require selective service.

i go to community and i ad to register. its the financial aid that requires you to register because your getting government grants to pay for your tuition, books and classes. but yes, kate is right, community college is a good route. many people go to community for 2 years than transfer, seriously reducing the cost of the 4 year college 

Here's the thing though - say you register and can show that you are MtF undergoing medical care for transition. Guess what? Current service regulations will not let you be a member of the service under any circumstances anyway.

That may change in the future but we'll see.

Quote from: LizMarie on April 19, 2015, 01:11:24 PM
Here's the thing though - say you register and can show that you are MtF undergoing medical care for transition. Guess what? Current service regulations will not let you be a member of the service under any circumstances anyway.

That may change in the future but we'll see.

That's not the problem, the problem is that they are using our genitals and the assigned at birth to force us to register to being with, if they won't let us be a member of the service, then why force us to register?

The laws were drafted before transgender rights were a thing, or even on lawmakers' radar.  I would guess that they are due for an overhaul soon.

You must register because it is currently the law on the books.   Failure to do so can only work against you, and is illegal under federal law.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 19, 2015, 01:14:32 PMif they won't let us be a member of the service, then why force us to register?

It's the same reasoning as why someone who is obviously disabled and would get classified as 4-F anyway must register.

your right its such bull and infuriates me just thinking about it! the sent me a letter saying they singed me up or something already so I didn't have to or I probably wouldn't....America is such a "free" country isn't it?? Support the troops?? um no....

I had a couple of thoughts about Selective Service's policy (I believe it's merely their policy and not in the law or based on a court decision) determining gender strictly by what's on the original birth certificate:

1. What would the registration rules be for someone whose sex was left blank on the original birth certificate or was not classified as either male or female at birth?

2. I thought of the ultimate scenario for a court test to this SS policy (and possibly the male-only registration requirement to begin with): Someone who has unambiguous male genitalia, XY chromosomes, and identifies as male, but "Female" was mistakenly put on his birth certificate. Under their current rules such a person should not have to register (even if his BC was later corrected, just as they ignore transgender peoples' amended BCs) but the SS will likely insist he should. If he were to take it to court, one of three things would probably result: 1) if they uphold the policy he'd be exempt (along with any other males shown as female by mistake on their original BC), 2) the policy dealing with non-cut-and-dried gender would have to be modified, or 3) rule that the male-only requirement is unconstitutional (especially possible if women are allowed to serve in combat, as that was why the male-only rule was upheld originally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostker_v._Goldberg)).

Im in the military... lord have mercy on my soul since suicide crosses my mind very often (I simply hate it... and force into a job I hate... but too afraid to get kick ouf... so life is hell). the country waste a lot of money on the needs of the army.... dude, I gave my best efforts into a military occupation, technically failed out, and over 2 yrs of a garbage job being plunge down my throat that I hate.... I rather had gotten kick out last year when it wasnt so bad I guess, but I should have a say over my life for signing up.... but no!!! Stupid idiocracy. No money is worth doing something your force too... or dishonarable discharge. Why ruin someone life with that
?? Its like prison. Im held by that fear tactic... and then i say people not even putting equal efforts that i am and getting away with it. I hate it. Like... I didnt sign up to drive too, hate driving, hate everything about life.... THIS is PRISON.

But no.... all likelihood you wont serve, and even if you did... transsexuals arent allowed.

Yes the whole thing is stupid, but I had to register myself. Its not that big of a deal. I haven't heard anything back since I registered. I'm reasonably certain they never would have wanted me anyway. I don't even have the card anymore. I lost it several years back. Trust me its not a big deal and you'll completely forget about it.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 11:30:28 PM
No, actually it's even worst, because that's practically just for ftm guys, who would be seen as "women" from this discriminatory program and are not required to register, while I am because assigned male at birth.

Well, I guess I wasn't registered yet, because I needed to for my fasfa application for financial aid, and I had to push the register me thingy, so yeah... I guess, I am registered now, and I feel super bad about it. Again, even if there would never be going to be a draft ever again, it's just the principle, why are trans women required to register, and even if I was to change my gender marker to female, they say on the website that they need all the people to register who were assigned male at birth.

you know, I can't even find my card either. since I was high risk, I'm sure they took my name off the list anyways. hmm, now imma go home and see if I can dig it up after work

Quote from: Echo Alcestis on April 20, 2015, 12:54:28 PM
you know, I can't even find my card either. since I was high risk, I'm sure they took my name off the list anyways. hmm, now imma go home and see if I can dig it up after work

No, you remain registered for life.

You can't be drafted once you turn 26, however.

Don't worry about losing the card. I lost my card so I asked for a letter. I had to get one for US citizenship.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 19, 2015, 01:14:32 PM
That's not the problem, the problem is that they are using our genitals and the assigned at birth to force us to register to being with, if they won't let us be a member of the service, then why force us to register?

How about instead of complaining about a law that you don't like, you work to have it changed?

From a strict legal point of view, your argument is invalid anyway. From my reading of the the laws in question, they care only about your birth sex, not your gender identity.. So if your birth sex was male, you have to sign up. Now, I'm not saying this is right or fair, just telling it how it is.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 19, 2015, 01:14:32 PM
That's not the problem, the problem is that they are using our genitals and the assigned at birth to force us to register to being with, if they won't let us be a member of the service, then why force us to register?

When I turned eighteen, ever though I am legally blind, I still had to sign up.  I got quite a few phone calls, and after their two minute speech, I'd politely let them know I was legally blind, and they would just say, "Oh, sorry!  There's nothing we can do for you.  Have a good day!".  And they would hang up.

I knew I couldn't serve, but I still had to sign up.  It's just the law.

Not that I'm complaining, but I wonder why I never got any calls. However I moved into my own place not long after and my parents moved out of state. As a result any phone number they had would be invalid. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

haha, actually that reminds me, my cell phone number actually changed and i don't answer the house phone. so basically if i was called (unlikely since i can plead insanity and therefore incapable of serving) they'd have to send the police to pick me up. i can feign innocence because i just didnt know

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 20, 2015, 03:15:05 PMFrom a strict legal point of view, your argument is invalid anyway. From my reading of the the laws in question, they care only about your birth sex, not your gender identity.. So if your birth sex was male, you have to sign up. Now, I'm not saying this is right or fair, just telling it how it is.

Actually like I said (assuming I'm correct, which is more likely given that you're not from the U.S. where all this doesn't apply) it's not the law but rather how the agency is interpreting it. (The act says "male persons" without defining that, so if anyone thinks it's unfair - or wants to take advantage of the flaw under the right circumstances like I suggested in my last post - they can take it to the courts to get their opinion.)

I actually still have my card it's in my wallet, though I am still presenting as male. Back then I even signed up for the military entry program, even though I knew I was transgender. I sorta regret not actually going but I know it would have been a mistake, note to anyone thinking about it they won't let you off easy. Despite being very closeted at the time I payed out of pocket like 75$ a session for 3 sessions seeing a therapist who had never dealt with gender issues before, so that she would write me a note that basically said. This person is crazy don't take them.

On the positive side I have found the card useful on occasion over the years when I needed another form identification. It's rarely on a company's list but it's hard to argue with military identification.

But ya it's dumb that the rules haven't been revised in the last century.

--Serena

They told me I was automatically registered when I enlisted and they still sent me letters about registering after I got out. I had no fear of being drafted though. I actually tried to get back in when 9/11 happened and because my discharge says "Personality Disorder" they said I wasn't eligible for re-enlistment.

My issue with it is why do only men have to register? There are women begging to serve in combat these days, but only men have to register? Are they saying women aren't capable soldiers and therefore don't have to register?

Women can register if they want to.

Quote from: LordKAT on April 21, 2015, 09:37:14 AM
Women can register if they want to.

Actually they can't (on the online registration page (https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfRegistration.aspx) once you scroll down it says below the gender radio buttons that "Current law does not permit females to register").

Quote from: iKate on April 20, 2015, 02:30:56 PM
No, you remain registered for life.

You can't be drafted once you turn 26, however.  

Don't worry about losing the card. I lost my card so I asked for a letter. I had to get one for US citizenship.

Not true. During the Viet Nam War the age was either 26 or 27 (not sure) if you never had a deferrment or 35 if you had a deferrment for school or other.  There was another requirement for married with children.  I would suspect that the age was also greater than 26 for both Korea and WWII.

Women have always been able to enlist for certain areas of service but have not been eligible for the draft.

@mac1 - iKate referred to the maximum age they can call you up for the first time (and not how long they can call you up after receiving a deferment).

Maybe not online but my sister and I did register for the draft. Right out of high school.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
I can't forget about it, this is some serious stupidity, that american government need to change, and it's super discriminatory. I feel like crying now, well even if I was about to change my gender marker I would still need to register because it says that you need to because of being assigned male at birth.

What is actually super discriminatory is that females aren't required to register.  Females serve in the military as well.  I agree that the government needs to change, but that change would be requiring everyone or no one to register.  Real equality is a bitch, sometimes.

The military isn't for everyone, but I enjoyed my 6 years and I enjoyed the 4 years of paid college.  I think everyone, male and female and non-gender conforming and everything in between regardless of sexual orientation, should be made to do at minimum 2 years of service.

Once you're done with those two years you'll feel one of two ways: Hate the establishment even more because you lack the intestinal fortitude to adapt and overcome the unique challenges that life presents, or you'll have far more respect for your freedoms and for those who defend them.

Sign up, write your congressman/woman so that you can express how you feel about it, and get it over with.

For what it's worth, I served 6 years.  I still work for the military as a contractor and have for the past 9 years.

Quote from: Nikki G on April 24, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
Once you're done with those two years you'll feel one of two ways: Hate the establishment even more because you lack the intestinal fortitude to adapt and overcome the unique challenges that life presents, or you'll have far more respect for your freedoms and for those who defend them.

Wow.. What a load of self righteous crap. America has long passed the point where it's military spending is unsustainable and it's "superpower" status is more of a laugh than serious - maintained only by it's nuclear weapons. While there is a place for all countries to have military forces, the time is long passed that it's main aim should be enforcing it's will on other countries.

I've got all the "intestinal fortitude" I need, I transitioned.

Quote from: Nikki G on April 24, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
The military isn't for everyone, but I enjoyed my 6 years and I enjoyed the 4 years of paid college.  I think everyone, male and female and non-gender conforming and everything in between regardless of sexual orientation, should be made to do at minimum 2 years of service.

Once you're done with those two years you'll feel one of two ways: Hate the establishment even more because you lack the intestinal fortitude to adapt and overcome the unique challenges that life presents, or you'll have far more respect for your freedoms and for those who defend them.

Sign up, write your congressman/woman so that you can express how you feel about it, and get it over with.

+1 for that!

Hugs, Devlyn

I wish I was military but I had LE service which was similar in some respects and I still miss those days. I worked with a lot of ex military people, plus my brother is an officer in the navy and enjoys the life. I always enjoy visiting bases with him. I am always in awe of the military and the sheer power and technology they have. Despite the bad press I think the military does a ton of good. He was hoping to go go Korea with me but is being deployed. Ah well.

Quote from: Nikki G on April 24, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
I think everyone, male and female and non-gender conforming and everything in between regardless of sexual orientation, should be made to do at minimum 2 years of service.

Sorry, Nikki, I can't agree with you. I want my country defended by people who want to be doing that.