Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I looked thru the large legal forum but could not find an answer. so here is my issue:

I was preparing some documentation for a gender change in my UK passport. Which seems to be reasonable straight forward, would rather have a professional consultancy do it (any recommendations?). Then I realized that I am still married. My city does not recognize same sex marriages; I believe Australia also does not recognize same sex marriages. So when I change my gender then my marriage is annulled?  Can anyone give me some advice?

Certainly it would be annulled in Australia - at the current rate it won't be until 2050 until we get marriage equality.

I will need to discuss this with my solicitors. This is an unwanted complication, I planned to stay married and thus no need for a financial settlement, now this is an issue......ayah

This can complicate things indeed :(. I suggest looking into this http://www.lawandreligionuk.com/2014/07/17/transsexuals-and-marriage-hamalainen-v-finland/ (http://www.lawandreligionuk.com/2014/07/17/transsexuals-and-marriage-hamalainen-v-finland/) which explains the current state of affairs under international human rights standards, but, yes, it appears that You will either have to divorce, or turn Your marriage into civil partnership (recognised under UK law), or try to find a venue through double nationality.

In Australia it varies a bit from state to state but you can change your gender on any document, passport, driving licence, medicare, ATO etc but not your birth certificate. If you do that (at least in SA) you cannot be in a same sex marriage.

Why? F knows!!

So I am now legally female ,married to a woman so I'm in a same sex marriage but with a male birth certificate and that means I'm not in a same sex marriage.

See it is obvious!

The law is a donkey!

um... a mule!!

ummm...

Thanks Cindy, just spoke with my solicitor (its 2:30pm here) and yes the loophole is the birth certificate. We were a former British colony so our laws are somewhat similar with Australia.

Quote from: warlockmaker on April 28, 2015, 01:42:31 AM
Thanks Cindy, just spoke with my solicitor (its 2:30pm here) and yes the loophole is the birth certificate. We were a former British colony so our laws are somewhat similar with Australia.

So you can change your passport and that is totally legal and your are 'legally' female and have full female rights under law.

I don't use my birth certificate for anything anyway so it is annoying bit of discrimination but that is all.

Politically and legally it is a test case waiting to happen and I have indicated that if a pro bono case is launched I'm very happy to be the test case considering the situation my wife is in. She is totally disabled and going through a divorce with to a woman she loves would probably kill her.

Bring it on!

Wait.. Unless I'm being totally silly - isn't gay marriage recognised in the UK now...? Or am I 19372817% wrong?

Quote from: eggy_nog on April 28, 2015, 03:44:42 AM
Wait.. Unless I'm being totally silly - isn't gay marriage recognised in the UK now...? Or am I 19372817% wrong?

I'm in Australia, Warlockmaker is in HK. The UK Government defers to the Law of its ex colonies.

If you can find any logic please be free to post it!

Same sex marriages are legal in a few states only in the USA. It would be interesting to hear from a knowledgeable person in the USA on how this is dealt with - as they face the same situation as us.

according to wikipedia same sex marriage in the US is somewhat legal or possible in 38 states and 70% of the population lives in a area where Same Sex marriage is recognized financially.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States)

Quote from: warlockmaker on April 28, 2015, 10:02:45 PM
Same sex marriages are legal in a few states only in the USA. It would be interesting to hear from a knowledgeable person in the USA on how this is dealt with - as they face the same situation as us.

I live in the USA, and in a state that does not recognize same-sex marriage -Missouri.  I changed my gender in court  in Missouri and my lawyer told me that my marriage is valid and the government cannot invalidate our marriage contract, since it was legal when we got married 24 years ago.  Lambda Legal agrees:

Quote
Q: Is a marriage still valid if one spouse transitions later on?

A: For a quick breakdown about transgender spouses and marriage law, see "The Basics: Gender Identity and Marriage Law," below.

Marriages remain valid if they were valid at the time they were entered into. The government cannot retroactively invalidate a marriage because of a change in eligibility criteria that occurs after the marriage is entered into.

It's an important principle to defend, especially in the face of openly anti-transgender policies and sentiments. That was the situation, for example, in 2007 when Lambda Legal represented a transgender man in a Florida alimony case known as Roach v. Roach n.k.a. Silverwolf. Julio Silverwolf (formerly Julia Roach) transitioned from female to male after 18 years of marriage to Lawrence Roach.

When the couple were divorcing, Roach argued that he shouldn't have to pay alimony because Silverwolf was "legally dead" as a result of his transition and because Florida does not recognize marriages of same-sex couples. But the court upheld the alimony agreement, basing its ruling on the determination that the marriage was valid at the time it was entered into.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/trans-marriage-law-faq#q5

Quote
THE BASICS: Gender Identity & Marriage Law

If you transition BEFORE getting married...

and you and your partner's gender identities are DIFFERENT-SEX the validity of your marriage depends on your state. But generally you can marry if you meet your state's requirement for gender marker change on your birth certificate. New Jersey, Minnesota and California courts have recognized the gender identity of transgender spouses and affirmed the validity of their marriages to different-sex spouses. However, some states refuse to allow gender-marker changes on birth certificates and do not legally recognize gender transition.
and you and your partner's gender identities are SAME-SEX, you may marry and receive respect for your marriage in those jurisdictions that issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. In addition, your marriage will receive respect in New Mexico. Also, you may receive some or all federal benefits, rights and responsibilities depending in which state you live.

If you transition AFTER getting married...

and you and your partner's gender identities are DIFFERENT-SEX, your marriage will be respected in all jurisdictions that respect marriages of same-sex couples and you may have arguments for respect in other states depending on a number of factors, including whether your state of residence legally recognizes your gender transition in this context.
and you and your partner's gender identities are SAME-SEX, your marriage should receive respect, as it was valid when you entered into it, and there is some legal precedent to support this.
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FOR MORE INFORMATION: Contact Lambda Legal at 212-809-8585, 120 Wall Street, Suite 1900, New York, NY 10005-3919. If you feel you have experienced discrimination, call our Help Desk toll-free at 866-542-8336 or go to www.lambdalegal.org/help.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/trans-marriage-law-faq#basics

from all I know, NJ, NYC and some other states around me are all for same sex. states that are so anti gay is Georgia, Alabama and tenenese as well as other deep southern states

Given a choice, I would take married over official gender change. However I would take name change over married. I'm going to start looking into that. I have some retirement funds I need to re-secure before I do though. They are setup through some backwards Ohio education system. That's completely different than now. My new funds are dealt with at the national level. I'm not sure what to do about it yet. It the only thing holding me back at this point.