Susan's Place Transgender Resources

There's something about not having a straightforward gender that makes it ultra hard for people to understand what it means.
Whether youre androgynous or whatever, how are you able to 'come out' so that people actually understand that it's a thing, and don't just look at you with eyes that say 'huh? are you stupid?'

And, if you 'came out' as non-binary, were people around you at least somewhat able to understand?

While not NB myself I know that when I have tried to explain NB to people, even if they are supportive of me and my transition, they are often baffled by and even a bit hostile towards the concept. I think a lot of it depends on who you tell and how/what you tell them.

I guess the thing is, if you want people to understand you need to be able to explain to them what it means for you and what you need them to know. That can be hard without going into a lot of detail. So work on an "elevator pitch" version that imparts as much info as clearly as possibly in just a few minutes. If they want or need to know more then you can elaborate. I know someone who is NB and that's been their fairly successful approach.

I tell people I'm part boy, part girl. Sometimes I say I'm somewhere in between. If someone isn't getting it, forget about them and move on. They probably don't understand particle physics either, but is it worth explaining?

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Majj Wynn on April 29, 2015, 01:11:13 AM
There's something about not having a straightforward gender that makes it ultra hard for people to understand what it means.
Whether youre androgynous or whatever, how are you able to 'come out' so that people actually understand that it's a thing, and don't just look at you with eyes that say 'huh? are you stupid?'

And, if you 'came out' as non-binary, were people around you at least somewhat able to understand?

I had a very brief, frustrating period of openly identifying as non-binary. I gave it up. I had those same problems you mention. I ended up transitioning and living as a woman and only telling people I'm non-binary if they're curious.

I've been on these boards over 3 years now and haven't yet come across a good way to be out as a non-binary. I think people are wired to gender people as one of the binary genders. Procreation of the species sort of depends upon it, so it's awfully hard to overcome without a lot of effort.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 29, 2015, 06:10:57 AM
I tell people I'm part boy, part girl. Sometimes I say I'm somewhere in between. If someone isn't getting it, forget about them and move on. They probably don't understand particle physics either, but is it worth explaining?

Hugs, Devlyn

That might be a good way to look at it. They can't understand it because they haven't gone through what we have... we actually had to think more about it and make sense of it. It just sucks that most people don't even have an open mind, to trust that it's important, you know?

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 29, 2015, 06:48:41 AM
I had a very brief, frustrating period of openly identifying as non-binary. I gave it up. I had those same problems you mention. I ended up transitioning and living as a woman and only telling people I'm non-binary if they're curious.

I've been on these boards over 3 years now and haven't yet come across a good way to be out as a non-binary. I think people are wired to gender people as one of the binary genders. Procreation of the species sort of depends upon it, so it's awfully hard to overcome without a lot of effort.

There must be someone around who's had some success, right? I'd be curious to hear about that.

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 29, 2015, 03:00:36 AM

I guess the thing is, if you want people to understand you need to be able to explain to them what it means for you and what you need them to know. That can be hard without going into a lot of detail. So work on an "elevator pitch" version that imparts as much info as clearly as possibly in just a few minutes. If they want or need to know more then you can elaborate. I know someone who is NB and that's been their fairly successful approach.

That's a good point, I guess we have to get better at 'selling it'. Though really we shouldn't have to. But I'll have to think further about how I'd go about doing that and that it make sense to regular people. Maybe we can list some options or something :P

Are you able to ask your friend how he/she was able to be ok at it? Ya know, just ever if it's in the cards :)

That reminds me, I'm not quite up to date with NB pronouns..

It seems like the more complicated and the less "binary" any lifestyle choice is, the harder it is for people to embrace it. This is true of non-binary gender identities but also I think of things like veganism. When people think "transgender" they think "a man wants to be a woman" or vice versa and that's easy to understand from a mechanical perspective but add in additional qualifiers, in the case of veganism "no animal by-products," and what you may consider something intrinsic to who you are now appears as an eccentricity to others. Still, there's value in coming out and no longer having to hide any part of who you are. You gotta be you.

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 29, 2015, 03:00:36 AM
So work on an "elevator pitch" version that imparts as much info as clearly as possibly in just a few minutes.

Yes, that's exactly what I found myself doing if someone asked, which most people didn't. People generally just picked a gender (nearly always male, in my case), and assumed that's what I was. They ignored the long hair (which, face it, was marred with MPB), glossy fingernails and jewelry.

I got really tired of giving the elevator pitch, since people seemed not to understand it or believe it anyway.

Quote from: Majj Wynn on April 29, 2015, 01:14:04 PM
There must be someone around who's had some success, right?

I hope so. I've heard of people trying to genderf--- by fine tuning their presentation so no one can tell what sex they are. I never went that way, since it's really hard and it really plays havoc with people's circuits since they're used to being able to gender nearly everyone.

Good question Majj, 

I cannot claim to be a success story but living with a somewhat androgynous presentation for 20+ years was my way of coping with what I could not say out loud to myself for too long.   I wore very long hair, those buffed and feminine nails, colorful and ambiguous apparel.  Being a cyclist, tights and shorts were part of my daily look.  I had dolls attached to my bike that also had rainbow stickers all over.  Like crossdressing in private, this "worked" to reduce but not eliminate my dysphoria that got worse until I fully accepted myself and began transition.  All of these clues and more were not enough to really understand the root of my gender identity issues.

My friends and family knew I was queer as I came out in 1982-3, while most people seemed to think I was gay and/or eccentric.  I like to think that my being out helped the next generation in pushing open the boundaries of gender expression. 

I think that people will continue to have that unconscious bias for wanting to instantly gender everyone while more will begin to pause and think a bit longer and question their assumptions.  I can't adequately explain myself after six decades so I accept it will take a while to sink in for those who cannot feel what we know as a daily truth.

I look to your generation with renewed hope.  My younger nieces and nephews are far more accepting and diverse.  I see them surrounding themselves with circles of support and a colorful cast of characters.  I love your avatar and feel very comfortable with ambiguity.  We may capitulate to some degree and I use terms people understand like girl and trans woman.

Pride and self confidence go along way too.  I consider you the vanguard of change for an ever evolving humanity and urge you to rock on!

Quote from: Boo Stew on April 30, 2015, 08:45:20 AM
[...] what you may consider something intrinsic to who you are now appears as an eccentricity to others. Still, there's value in coming out and no longer having to hide any part of who you are. You gotta be you.

thumbs up to this!!  :icon_clap:

Quote from: Tessa James on April 30, 2015, 12:08:01 PM
Pride and self confidence go along way too.  I consider you the vanguard of change for an ever evolving humanity and urge you to rock on!

It really does seem to come down to this, doesn't it? Being confident in ourselves, I mean. It's.. not easy, but I've noticed it's something that grows in me (even if slowly), accepting and honouring who I am, my feelings mattering more than what I think of others' opinions of me. I still have a long ways to go though..

But yeah, the ones that will help change society are the ones that are ready to live the example... and just be themselves without having to explain themselves! And when we're asked, then we can try to explain without being too invested in if they understand or not. If it's family and friends though, maybe that's something we can try to explain because we want to be respected as who we are by those closer to us... not that we can always expect it.
It's still kind of scary... but.. one step at a time, ..
At least, that's my thoughts on it up to now. Love the responses.. <3 :)

Saw a t-shirt in a store window that was closed or I would now own it: 

                                WOKE UP THIS WAY

Quote from: Tessa James on May 01, 2015, 12:16:07 AM
Saw a t-shirt in a store window that was closed or I would now own it: 

                                WOKE UP THIS WAY

Subversive! I like it. 

I would say that I have, as suzifrommd put it, fine-tuned my appearance to keep people from being able to easily decide what they think my sex is. I did this through a combination of medical transition, my way of speaking and moving, and my clothes/hair/etc. I also have an unusual androgynous name. It is/was a little difficult I guess, but for me it was the only way to go. I tried living as one binary gender and then the other, and although I was able to do it, it didn't make me feel good. So now I do this instead. (Part of the difficulty also is that it makes me very visible as a trans person which can be dangerous or scary, but at this point in my life I have decided that it's worth it for me.)

Coming up with an "elevator pitch" to describe your gender is a good idea if you plan on trying to explain it to people. It doesn't have to be very complicated -- in fact, I think it's best if it's relatively simple.

For me, I tell people: "Instead of a man or a woman, I am an in-between gender that's different. I am an androgynous person." If they want to know what name I give that gender, I tell them: "I call myself nonbinary or an androgyne." Obviously each nonbinary person's "elevator pitch" is going to be different, so this is just my own example. I also know that sometimes your understanding of yourself is way more complicated than this or is hard to explain. But I think this gives enough information to allow the other person to either accept it as-is, or they can ask more questions, if they want.

I think I have been mostly successful with it. But part of that has definitely been my androgynous appearance. I have noticed that although many/most people pick one gender or the other to treat me as (based on what, I actually have very little idea), many others seem to take me as I am. They might feel a little awkward about it because it's a relatively unusual experience for them, but it happens. I've heard people say it's impossible to get people to refer to you with gender-neutral pronouns, but plenty of strangers call me "they" without me saying anything about my gender to them. They are just responding to what's in front of them.

It can be really scary and difficult to tell other people about this! In the end, all you can do is try to be clear and honest about yourself. Sometimes people won't understand, and sometimes people will decide that you're wrong and they won't respect you. If someone is being crummy about it, it's not your fault. As long as you tried, that's all you can ask of yourself.

And all that having been said...

Quote from: Tessa James on April 30, 2015, 12:08:01 PM

I think that people will continue to have that unconscious bias for wanting to instantly gender everyone while more will begin to pause and think a bit longer and question their assumptions.  I can't adequately explain myself after six decades so I accept it will take a while to sink in for those who cannot feel what we know as a daily truth.

I really agree!

to let you know, only about 30% of NB are out at work.

and 20% of NB report loosing their jobs because of the Gender ID.

Quote from: ritual-object on May 14, 2015, 05:57:15 PM
Coming up with an "elevator pitch" to describe your gender is a good idea if you plan on trying to explain it to people. It doesn't have to be very complicated -- in fact, I think it's best if it's relatively simple.

For me, I tell people: "Instead of a man or a woman, I am an in-between gender that's different. I am an androgynous person."

The thing that always bothered me about this is that in order to be gendered correctly, I needed to have a conversation about my gender. I.e. I needed to bring it up, whereas binary folk could just be who they are and people could figure it out. It didn't have to be part of a conversation.

I couldn't stand that. I admire people who could.