Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well
I was once the dude of dudes!
Had no idea so many guy friends looked up to me.
Several just seem to be disappearing. It's not like they did anything but drifting away.
Why? In the beginning I felt it was because I am trans.
Seems non are judging me, they just miss Doug. They see me know and I am not him at all
I get it and I am having to accept that I can't be their buddy. I have girl friends now more than ever. I can't hang with the dudes.
So it seems it has nothing to do with anything but loss of Doug. He died, us no longer around.
So I embrace myself and move on. I like being female, doing nails, hair and shopping.
I have tried to be friends with the dudes but from what I am told they all miss Doug and mourn the loss.
It's weird like listening to people talk after you die.
Kinda pisses me off sometimes !!
Dodie/Keri

I'd be willing to bet it's exactly that - they feel like "Doug" died. What they aren't seeing is that "Doug" was never, really, truly "Doug". Who he became - who you are now - is who he really was the whole time. And in a way, he -did- die. He sacrificed himself so that Dodie - you - could be...born, in a sense. But that's not something that most people will ever be able to see, or even if they do see it, they won't be able to understand it.

That's transitioning. In becoming who we truly are, the person we presented as beforehand must perish. We're phoenixes, really - that identity, that physical shell, must burn away, revealing the...truth beneath the lie, so to speak. And they may feel like you're responsible for the death of the person they knew, as though you walked up to him, shot him in the head, and took over his life without them knowing, and now that you're truly yourself, it's like you'd been wearing his face as a mask, which in all technicality you have. They may feel betrayed. I know that when I came out, several of my friends told me they "didn't know me anymore" and that "had they known when they met me, things would have been different"...different in the sense that they would not have bothered befriending me.

Ultimately, one true fact remains - you are a beautiful phoenix, risen from the ashes of a former life. You have been reborn. And how many people can say that, in the sense that they are literally a new person?

Aw, gee :~(

Yeah, I know that feeling too.

I have no choice but to accept and respect it. Yes, I'm the same person, but I *am* very different as well, especially in the eyes of others.

I can't expect my relationships to be the same as they were before.

This was always going to involve sacrifices. But I guess, all things really worth having are like that, right?

It is a bit weird.  I mean, same monkeys, different barrel, right?  I never really fit in with the fantasy football, poker tournament or gearhead guys, but all the guys I used to jam with all the time are mostly "too busy with other things" now.  Guys I'd see every week are guys I see once or twice a year now.   I guess I'm seen as "one of the girls" now, but I guess that's OK.  I like my circle of girlfriends, and I seem to be a much better fit with them anyway.  I have a lot more fun being silly and snarky with them than pretending to give a s*** about bragging rights and how many yards Tom Brady threw for last week.

I wouldn't get to stressed out about it. My observation over the years is it's unusual for most guys to have a very close friendship with a girl unless there is a desire to have the friendship develop along romantic lines. Even if they are all real o.k. with the concept of your transition the friend dynamic has totally changed now. Doesn't seem real strange that they are drifting away. I think it's just the nature of the difference in how men and women make and maintain friendships......

I agree with lostcharlie - some guys, especially the dude-bro types don't really know how to be friends with women unless it involves being in a relationship (and even then). Some of them might even find you attractive which can really confuse them! I didn't have that many male friends to begin with, they were easy going non macho considerate guys - they've been supportive and accepting of my transition but at the same time they have readjusted the nature of their friendship with me, I'm now a female friend not a dude friend and that has different boundaries - certain things are no longer discussed!

We're unique in that we've been on the inner circle of guys.  We know what they talk about, and what they stop talking about the second they know a woman is in ear shot.  So I agree that it's probably more about them treating you like a woman instead of one of the guys.  It's part of our culture...it's ingrained into them.

Quote from: katiej on May 07, 2015, 05:49:30 PM
We're unique in that we've been on the inner circle of guys.  We know what they talk about, and what they stop talking about the second they know a woman is in ear shot.  So I agree that it's probably more about them treating you like a woman instead of one of the guys.  It's part of our culture...it's ingrained into them.

It's so true about the same-sex group dynamic when suddenly it isn't.   

I heard about this guy I knew from uni, he was at a dinner party with several other friends...four female one other male who was a close friend of mine. As soon as he was alone with the guy he just blurted out "there are four vaginas in the next room!!". Apparently he needed a "guy/guy" moment to debrief on the glaringly obvious.

Quote from: katiej on May 07, 2015, 05:49:30 PM
We're unique in that we've been on the inner circle of guys. 

Some guys dig that :~) The highly-intelligent variety ...

Hi Keri, yeah definitely agree, they miss Doug, the fun men things, sports cars or whatever it was.... Also as Katie said, probably a little scared of you because you were one of them, so knowing how their minds work is probably a bit of it.

And as Grace said they can't talk smutty with you about...

But hey, life's a revolving door, in with the new ... Anyway us Girls are much more Fun!

Hey as they grow up, some may want to be your friends again, you never know.

L Katy  :-*

Unfortunately, society is still very gender-segregated...  It is getting better but it's an issue.  I think the underlying problem is that it's *assumed* that men and women can't ever be "just friends," and that there must be some hidden sexual agenda.  Where transgender people are concerned, this dynamic can become even more rigid, because of things like, for example, a straight girl suddenly being attracted to her transmasculine friend who was once her "girlfriend," etc.

If you have really close guy friends, you might to talking with them openly about this if you can.  Not all guys (or all people) will run from a situation just because it's the path of least resistance.

Best of luck!

the guys I left live in the  world of forever high school never land of drinking and talking about the pick up days

Had a bit of a similar experience, but a lot less so because am not full time out. I am still a different person, not really a guy-guy at all anymore. I think the conversational moments become rarer. It's more like share this video game or other-game activity and be on your way. It's a bit weird, and progressive.

Seeing the other end of the tunnel as some of you ladies describe it seems sort of relieving (hey, it's OK if it happens, I'll be fine) but sort of scary, like some childhood guy friends are still childhood friends but there's some strange, funny, intangible distance now. I find that kind of unsettling. And as it's been pointed before, there's no phobia or something, it's just that things don't fit as well as before, somehow.

We caught girl cooties and got turned into women, so former male friends keep their distance in case they catch it too  :P

Ok, so I'm not being serious, but I do think the notion that their guy friend died and the woman who arose from their ashes is a stranger they don't know is a valid one.

My best friend from high school won't even talk to me. He knew the old me. we did Aikido together, hung out all the time, rode bikes around town together and went through college taking the same classes together. But, to him, David is dead. he doesnt know Keaira. even though it's the same person who would be over at his house every weekend, that would take him and our other friends home because I was the only one sober enough, he cant wrap his head around the fact that his best friend is a woman now.

It kind of hurts. I agree that it's a weird feeling having people talk about the old you like you're dead. But, I knew this was what would happen. Nothing worth having is ever easy. And I've come to the realization that I'm better off alone.

I'd suggest giving them time to readjust, they may come back even stronger friends but in a different context.

You go on ahead & love Your life, darling....I wish I had your situation....it would be easier..... [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I lost most guy friends because even if they were supportive, its still uncomfortable for the average guy to hang around with our type. And then there will be those that won't because someone might talk about it. all sort of reasons, really, but not surprising at all.

Can't lose what I never had. I stopped hanging with the guys when I got out of school, they were really my older brothers friends anyway.

I agree with most who said that they don't know this new person who is a, dare I say it, GIRL!!! I don't know many guys who have girl/friends unless they want something from them. I think it would be hard for most to say ok here is a girl who was my guy friend so I can't be attracted to her or want anything more than a friendship from. Just my thoughts anyways. I hope my guy friends don't drift away. I was always into working on cars with them. And knew most of em since I was a kid. So far they are all cool with my transition. Then again they haven't seen me in full femme, so I guess I don't know how they will act when reality hits them. As of now they say they will kick anyone's ass that tries to mess with me or has a problem with me so I hope it stays that way. Yayyy I gain protectors lol

-Iliana

I'd say its nothing more than that they recognize you as a female now and you have been relocated out of the inner circle of the dude bros. There also may be some problems with some of your old friends suddenly finding themselves attracted to you and that just won't do - its uncomfortable discovering that you are attracted to someone that you used to know in an entirely different way and none of them will ever admit to feeling that way.

I have noticed this dynamic among my guy friends too. I am going to meet up with two of my guy friends in July to sell a race car to one of them. One of them I have kept in touch with on the phone on a regular basis but he's never seen the female me before. I expect that once he sees me this dynamic will start up and the relationship may get strange. Oh well, its an age old dynamic of boys not being able to be friends with girls without sex entering the picture, and girls like us that have developed from our past bring an entirely new dynamic into the picture.

Wonderful replies girls.
I don't see men the same now. I suppose the ones I knew feel safe to be around so I want their companionship . Not sexually just as friends.
They all say I am hot and wow that's amazing and then things get quiet.
I do have one that supports me and calls me babe now!
I think I am hanging on to them as if they are part of Doug.
It's time to let go. Makes me sad! I changed more than I ever thought I would.
I love being a woman no way could I ever go back.
Time to make new memories and accept the changes.
Dodie/Keri

Hey chicks another note.
Guys do seem so different to me now. I am out of that club. I am seriously owning being a woman. I suppose I am finding what any woman does.
So I move on..... And dance!!!!
Dodie/Keri

I used to think I was immune to this because of how tight knit and cross-sex my friend group is (like we've all been friends since middle school/high school)... but, honestly I'm starting to experience this now too the further I get into my transition... which is kind of odd, because my group has had several gay and bi boys in it, but idk... I've definitely noticed a difference in how I'm treated. I really don't get it given I'm hella lesbian myself so it's not even like I'm romance-able to them.

>_> Really it just shows up with one friend though. My best friend, or I guess former best friend now. We had known each other since middle school, always got along like brothers... hell I even had him listed on my facebook as my brother for awhile as a kind of joke xD He was supportive when I came out... Three months after I started transitioning, he broke up with his girlfriend, who is also a very close friend of mine. He has never really been that open to talking, but one of the things he told me at the time was that he wanted me and my gf to hang out with his ex, make sure she was okay because they broke on a less than high note.

So we did... and we kept hanging out with her and I became pretty close friends with his ex. Still am. Recently though... for like the past six months, he started claiming that I was different. That I had started making inappropriate jokes and acting more aggressive and flirty than I used to... but the problem is I don't recall acting any different. I mean, I had been a little moody thanks to the ups and downs of second puberty but, I didn't think that much... I mean, growing up we were the same stupid twits any kids our age were, we would make stupid jokes, talk about girls, hurl insults at each other while playing video games... you know, the kind of crap you pull when you are a kid. That didn't really change leading up to the transition, and our other friends would occasionally make similar kinds of jokes... but a couple months ago he decided that wasn't cool for me to do that any more, which was fine, i just wish he would have told me... but it seems like he can still make those kind of jokes and comments to the other guys in the group, and they can do the same...

Anyways, last month I got into a fight with him over text message, where he accused me of not listening or caring about his problems. What actually those problems were I've got no idea, given he just doesn't open up to people... from the conversation I gathered that he had wanted to talk about the break up his ex, but that happened a full year ago now, his ex has moved on, he has moved on as well. It kinda sucked because in a way he acted like he wanted me to choose between being how I used to be, and being how I was now, or being with him or hanging out with his ex, and trying to assure him that I just wanted to remain neutral and friends with both of them did nothing.

So I lost my temper in the text convo and I haven't talked to him since. It sucks... but I don't understand any more what he wants from me.

Keri, don't close that door entirely. One of those guys may see you in a completely new light. Not likely, but possible. You never know!

I gain and loose friends rather easily its a side effect of being in the military where you move every couple of years... we always say we are going to stay in touch but never really do and soon after you move they become people you used to know or that you worked with... of course your always happy to see them if you run into them again but its never really the same because you and the other person have changed/grown and usually you will have little in common other then your history together. 

I'm guessing (from everything I have read) that when you transition you are forcing yourself to go through a major change your perspective on everything in your life will be drastically different then it was when you were a guy and while it may not be apparent to you but it will be to those around you and some of those friends wont be able to grow with you and accept you for who you are becoming... some guys cant have girl friends unless they are in a relationship with them or are looking to get into one with them... others will have girlfriends and wives tell them not to be your friend because they feel threatened by you... and some guys my end up being attracted to you and knowing that you were once a guy my bother them so they avoid you because that is how they are dealing with it.  Regardless the friends that stick with you are the ones you want to keep and the other ones may work through their issues and come back to you but the ones that are gone shouldn't bother you as you have a new life now enjoy who you are and all that comes with it :)

Quote from: Dodie on May 08, 2015, 09:15:34 AM
Hey chicks another note.
Guys do seem so different to me now. I am out of that club. I am seriously owning being a woman. I suppose I am finding what any woman does.
So I move on..... And dance!!!!
Dodie/Keri

It's because you're getting prettier as time goes by.

I never had that many guy friends to begin with, but I'm losing a few. Was never into hanging out with the guys except at the range. Ah well.

I am still friends I just really feel different as a woman hanging out with guys.

I agree that it's about some guys just not knowing how to be friends with women. I've kept some male friends, but they're all the ones I didn't have a "typical guy" friendship with to start with - they like to talk, are emotionally available, etc.

Quote from: Emily E on May 08, 2015, 02:23:16 PM
I gain and loose friends rather easily its a side effect of being in the military where you move every couple of years... we always say we are going to stay in touch but never really do and soon after you move they become people you used to know or that you worked with... of course your always happy to see them if you run into them again but its never really the same because you and the other person have changed/grown and usually you will have little in common other then your history together. 

This.

I've stopped even trying to keep any friends anymore. In 6 months, I'll be going to another trucking company and I dont plan on keeping in touch with friends I made at this one. I'm an Army Brat. And Ex RAF. Anyway, I thought this was kind of fitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgKAFK5djSk

most of my friends are male, its the females in my life that stopped coming around and wanting to hang out.  90% of my male friends always asked "what took you so long" cause they all knew It.   but im assuming most of your male friends reacted inside like my female friends,  they got weirded out and are slowly easing out.

I guess I am lucky to have been crippled by social anxiety. I have very few close friends, but in those few relationships I have seen dynamics change. Or been given warning of the potential for change. One female friend, who has been there fore me but also had a crush on the male me, has told me she needs time. She needed a new roommate recently and I offered myself up. She responded by telling me she wasn't sure if she was ok with my transition or not. She could have just told me how ridiculously steep her rent is! When I helped her in her art studio a week later she was great though. I even overheard her using female pronouns for me when she had every reason to believe I was out of ear shot. She also complimented my outfit as I said goodbye. It would seem though that she is trying to move her end of the friendship past her atraction to the man she knew. I guess she isn't sure there is a friendship if it is just one between women.

The other big situation is with my best guy friend and his girlfriend. They are both very close friends and I have lived with them on and off for years. I am currently living with them yet again. Even though he is an emotional man who is mostly friends with women I am sensing a difference in our relationship. There are things that I am no longer comfortable discussing with him and I can see that he has the same dilemma. I am also put off by his male competitiveness, he is always trying to one up anyone's story, or to at least tell his story the loudest. I am having to readjust to him as a fully foreign beast instead of a strange creature I was meant to be like. He always called me brother, and we are still like siblings, but he calls me friend or by my name more than he calls me sister. He has condescend to me a couple times on subjects where he knows my knowledge is equal or superior, mansplaining things to me. He has also started complaining that I make too much eye contact now and have become "agressive". On the other hand my relationship with her, his girlfriend, is expanding by leaps and bounds. We just talk about everything now and we are becoming closer by the day. Where she once kept her distance she now comes in close. It all feels so comfortable and it is good to know that they both see me as a woman now.

The worst has been my little brother, we raised eachother like latchkey kids often do. He has always been the person I am closest to in this world. We haven't spoken in months. Granted he just had a new baby but that was months ago. We used to talk regularly and it was often he who would contact me. But, I heard from my Mom that he has started talking to my Pop. The two of them, my brother and father, have been locked in a classic father son love fight thing for ever and the distance had been growing. Through a lot of effort on my brother's wife's part and mine they were starting to get closer. Me stepping out of my big brother role seems to have helped them reconcile a bit it seems.

So yes there is loss but there is gain as well and the best part for me is that I feel like I am being treated corectly, like a woman.

I came out to one of my close friends last week, it went okay and so far our relationship hasn't changed.  Him and few other friends are like family to me, so they know I don't want to just start having a romantic/sexual relationship with them.

Quote from: Dodie on May 08, 2015, 08:51:36 AM
They all say I am hot and wow that's amazing and then things get quiet.

I think you have a large part of your answer here...

I just lost all my friends when I came out so I can't comment on a difference.

I don't have any guy friends really... never did except in elementary school.. but yeah I agree with others and your own assumption that they just don't know how to really be friends with a woman.. and perhaps miss their old perception of you.

so far so good, my close bros are pretty reasonable people and seem not to mind me being much happier than before/wearing a dress so.. hopefully itll be fine. i did dress around them pretty much immediately to get them trained up tho, its stops being a major deal pretty quickly if you train them!
i like how its changed things with my girl friends, and exgfs; theyre very accepting and all say they prefer me in my new role. i agree with them. its nice to go gokarting with my friends on one day and shopping with my girls another. and they all know achother so nights out are fun. i dunno, i cant think of anything that is substantially worse than before coming out and a whole lot that is much much better so..
further down the road, when im full time and find a bf, i suppose it might change things but i suspect only people unhappy in their own lives have too much of a problem with you being happy so... hang out with good people i guess is the goal.. i dunno!
i guess it changes the macho dynamic with some guys, but theyre usually ->-bleeped-<-ing boring fools anyway so meh