Susan's Place Transgender Resources

...shouldn't the state have to pay for our GRS? Or otherwise drop the requirement for GRS?

I'm being quite serious. Having our documentation reflect our identified gender is hugely important to many if not most of us. It is a hugely significant mental health and well being issue. It is a personal safety issue also. Yet many are unable to afford GRS, some end up having cheaper (often sub par) procedures, some are totally unable to. And yes, many are unwilling or unable to have GRS due to a number of personal and/or health reasons. The imposition of surgery as the only means to have our gender corrected on our birth certificate is surely a human rights issue. So the state should either cough up the money or better still (and cheaper for the state) drop the requirement altogether.

Thoughts?

They really should just drop the requirement all together. Not everyone who transition wants to have GRS. Unfortunately the state I was born in (Tennessee) will not change the gender even with GRS. It's the only state that has a law against transgender individuals changing their gender on their birth certificate. The other two states where you can't change it (Idaho and Ohio) simply don't have a procedure to allow you to change it. Looks like I'll be keeping my passport up to date forever since my birth certificate will never be seen by anyone else as far as I'm concerned.

I know you're in Australia, but in the US, some states (such as my own) have laws that only require that you have HRT; I just received a judgement by my county courts stating that my gender would henceforth legally be changed from female to male, only on the basis that I had gender-confirming treatment. Oregon's pretty cool like that, although I did have to make my own forms based on a neighbouring county's, since mine didn't have any available. Still, progress!  ;D

As for whether they should pay... hm. I'd rather they drop the requirement altogether than force people that might not even be dysphoric about their genitalia into surgery, just so the government recognises their identity. Like, I'm not necessarily dysphoric about 'down under' (throwing in that Aussie reference for you, Grace ;)) so the idea that I'd have to alter my body past the point that I'd want to would be absurd, and I'd challenge it on every level.

They need to drop the requirement. I'm fortunate to live in a state where it was fairly easy to get my birth certificate completely changed without being on HRT at the time or having GRS yet which is still to come. Society defines us partially by those documents and as such they are a huge source of frustration every time we have to show them with the name or gender that doesn't represent our authentic selves it causes harm. They need to fully consider our health and well being and stop using religion and other reasons for withholding changing our documents for us. Hugs
Mariah

That's a very good point Grace, here in New Zealand it's the same as for Australia we have to have full GRS before we can be legally female.  Name change isn't a problem though, basically you can call yourself anything you want.  You just send in the appropriate paperwork and the necessary fee and a new amended birth certificate arrives in your mailbox a few days later.  The dreaded 'M' is still there though which is always disappointing.
I've nearly always taken a radical approach with any form I have to fill out and I write 'F' in the gender box and very rarely do I get challenged over it.  My NZ drivers licence which I use mostly for ID, even though I don't drive anymore , has no gender marking on it at all which is really cool.  It's nice when bureaucrats are sympathetic when it comes to such things.

Surgery has always been problematic in NZ as no surgeon here is doing GRS anymore, but on the other hand the operations they were doing when GRS was available were very basic and not all that convincing.  For us it's either Australia or Asia and the extra expense and difficulty of being far from home while undergoing major surgery.

Limited funding is available from the NZ government for GRS, but you wouldn't want hold your breath as the waiting list is very long and the gatekeepers are legion.
http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/hospitals-and-specialist-care/high-cost-treatment-pool/gender-reassignment-surgery (http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/hospitals-and-specialist-care/high-cost-treatment-pool/gender-reassignment-surgery)

Speaking for myself I don't want GRS.  Having had an orchi is great and I'd really like to get wart removed too, but the last time I asked about that the male specialist I was talking to just about had a fit over it.  Wart is no use to me and annoys me when I'm riding my bicycle or tricycle so I don't see what the problem is.

Quote from: AndrewB on May 08, 2015, 10:04:04 PM
...I just received a judgement by my county courts stating that my gender would henceforth legally be changed from female to male, only on the basis that I had gender-confirming treatment.

That's cool. Maybe one day...

With or without coverage, it's barbarism. "Cut yourself up or we won't let you have accurate documents." Put that way, sounds a lot like extortion.

That being said, I haven't changed my BC, and it hasn't caused me any problems. I basically never show it to anyone. Probably more of an issue for someone trying to be deep stealth and cover all their tracks, which I know is not possible for me.

Quote from: Lady Smith on May 08, 2015, 10:54:12 PM
That's a very good point Grace, here in New Zealand it's the same as for Australia we have to have full GRS before we can be legally female. 

"Under the passport policy for applicants who are sex and gender diverse, sex reassignment surgery is not a prerequisite to issue a passport
in a new gender. Birth or citizenship certificates do not need to be amended for sex and gender diverse applicants to be issued a passport in
their preferred gender. A letter from a medical practitioner certifying that the person has had, or is receiving, appropriate clinical treatment
for gender transition to a new gender, is intersex and does not identify with the sex assigned to them at birth, is acceptable evidence of gender
identity. A passport in a new sex may also be issued to applicants who have undergone sex reassignment surgery and have registered their
change of sex with Registrars of Births, Deaths and Marriages or the Department of Immigration and Citizenship. A passport may be issued to
intersex, transgender and/or gender diverse applicants in M (male), F (female) or X (indeterminate/unspecified/intersex). For more information
please see the Australian Passports Office website "


Australia's highest court ruled in 2011 that people who are transgender can be legally recognized as the gender by which they identify without undergoing sexual reassignment surgery. Knowledge of a person's genitalia are not required according to the decision, because the characteristics that define a person's gender are "confined to external physical characteristics that are socially recognizable."


More and more people are coming around slowly...

I agree, the legal requirement should be lessened to say a period on HRT and depending on period a sensible time of F/T...

Certainly in my case, i had not planned on immediate GRS, however was concerned by the enforcing of GRS to obtain legal changes on all documentation.

Certainly professional assessments and Dr's  confirmations of HRT should be acceptable.

My birth certificate is UK as well as marriage etc....


L Katy

I just got the letters I need today to get my gender changed with the US Social Security Administraion, Passport office, and Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles; so while that isn't changing my birth certificate (Still need SRS for that) I will be legally female on basically everything at that point.

It would be great if it were changed to do away with the SRS for birth certs though. I still want SRS all the same, but it does seem silly to force people to have documentation that doesn't match up with other documentation.

If only i had of been born in the ACT,
the law here has recently been changed so that you don't need GRS to change your gender marker anymore(not sure if you still have to be living in the act but definitely need to have been born here), hopefully the other states follow suit, though im pretty sure NT will be the last state to do so.

im actually lucky to be living in Canberra for so long that i can change my name here, if i had to go through the births deaths and marriages in Darwin it would have required me to advertise my name change in a newspaper

I know in the United States, you can easily change your passport and use this rather your birth cert.  I haven't had any need for a birth cert since I received my passport over 10 years ago.  I am not sure if AU requires much to change gender marker on passport though.

I can change my passport, driver license and naturalization certificate quite easily. The passport and naturalization cert require a doctor's letter which I can get since they have been prescribing and monitoring my hormones. The driver license requires a special form filled out by either my doctor or therapist.

My birth certificate is from a foreign country who has no law in place to change it even with surgery. I am hoping that as they choose to attain developed country status that they are pressured into changing that law.

I wish I at least had the option to change it with surgery. I am getting SRS in a couple of years but that won't be enough for them. The only way it can be changed is if they made a clerical error.

As for the state paying for it, I don't mind that in a totally socialized healthcare system. But there are many things that are mandated thT we have to pay for out of pocket. One of them, ironically, is health insurance.

The terminology on the birth certificate in Pennsylvania, USA says sex not gender on the birth certificate.

Quote from: iKate on May 09, 2015, 10:15:12 AM
As for the state paying for it, I don't mind that in a totally socialized healthcare system. But there are many things that are mandated thT we have to pay for out of pocket. One of them, ironically, is health insurance.

In our Kiwi socialised healthcare system only four paid GRS operations are funded each year.  Three for MtF and one for FtM.  As I said you wouldn't want to hold your breath waiting.

The US healthcare system is totally incomprehensible to me and as someone who lives with a long term chronic illness I'm just glad I live in New Zealand and not the US.

Quote from: Lady Smith on May 09, 2015, 08:46:22 PM

The US healthcare system is totally incomprehensible to me and as someone who lives with a long term chronic illness I'm just glad I live in New Zealand and not the US.

I hear a lot of lament from people who don't live here about our system. Thing is that I could never see myself living in a place that has things like NHS gate keeping and the "take it or leave it" attitude from government run healthcare.

I have long term chronic conditions including type 2 diabetes and I don't have issues with insurance coverage.

I wasn't intending to put down healthcare in the US Kate.  I suppose in a lot of ways the healthcare systems we grow up with and are used to and are familiar things and anything else seems foreign.  I had private health insurance for a while while I was working and soon discovered that the insurance company was more interested in finding ways to deny my claim than actually pay out.  Eventually I just cancelled the policy because it was useless.

"The State" insists I wear glasses to drive yet....

"The State" insists I have insurance to drive, yet....

"The State" insists I go to school and pass these silly tests to cut people open, yet...

"The State" insists I pay taxes for schools though I have no children, ever, yet...

"The State" insists because "They" know all so much better then us peons how to stay in office. (OK.. They do have a point there. They always manage to get reelected)

I'm just glad many jurisdictions even ALLOW you to change it after GRS. Here in the US many states just simply will not. For a BC, or much else either.

For Pennsylvania, USA when I was at my consult with Dr. McGinn she said she would supply a letter with an orchi.

Grace, if you have a whole bunch of money spare, what you need to do is take the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages to court - the High Court. Citing the High Court decision against the WA Registrar, also throwing in the human rights issue along the way.

I'm kinda tempted to have a lower level dig at the Registrar here in Victoria, just need to find a lawyer willing to do it pro bono.

Quote from: Lady Smith on May 09, 2015, 09:14:22 PM
I wasn't intending to put down healthcare in the US Kate.  I suppose in a lot of ways the healthcare systems we grow up with and are used to and are familiar things and anything else seems foreign.  I had private health insurance for a while while I was working and soon discovered that the insurance company was more interested in finding ways to deny my claim than actually pay out.  Eventually I just cancelled the policy because it was useless.

It can be a hit or miss. But I've seen that both from the government and private plans. Social security disability for example in the U.S. is a government run program and notoriously difficult to qualify for. They seem to be worse than most insurance companies.

Yes some insurance companies are evil but the Government can hold you at gunpoint and is accountable to no one, except if a mass of voters gets together and holds them accountable. I would rather take my chances with a private system.

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on May 08, 2015, 10:01:22 PM
Unfortunately the state I was born in (Tennessee) will not change the gender even with GRS. It's the only state that has a law against transgender individuals changing their gender on their birth certificate. The other two states where you can't change it (Idaho and Ohio) simply don't have a procedure to allow you to change it.

I don't consider this an accurate portrayal of the status of the fifty states. Please note that "amending" a birth certificate is not (or not necessarily) the same as altering it. 

A case in point is my birth state of South Carolina, which "amends" but does NOT actually change the birth certificate. SC insists on attaching an "amendment card" to the original BC so that all can see exactly what was changed. The original BC is not altered in any way. I suppose that this situation beats no change at all, but not by much, in my opinion. I would never be able to maintain my privacy with such a birth certificate.

Other states insist on doing something similar--in some way pointing out the alteration and outing the bearer to anyone who cares to read the document.

Quote from: Arch on May 11, 2015, 12:31:29 AM
I don't consider this an accurate portrayal of the status of the fifty states. Please note that "amending" a birth certificate is not (or not necessarily) the same as altering it. 

A case in point is my birth state of South Carolina, which "amends" but does NOT actually change the birth certificate. SC insists on attaching an "amendment card" to the original BC so that all can see exactly what was changed. The original BC is not altered in any way. I suppose that this situation beats no change at all, but not by much, in my opinion. I would never be able to maintain my privacy with such a birth certificate.

Other states insist on doing something similar--in some way pointing out the alteration and outing the bearer to anyone who cares to read the document.

You make a valid point. The same goes with names. In Tennessee, a name change is amended so the original name, although crossed out, it readable. I didn't even both changing the name on my BC. I'm just sticking with using my Passport in lieu of a BC.

A bunch of states aren't as trans-friendly as they ought to be.

But Tennessee...wow.

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on May 11, 2015, 01:10:38 AM
You make a valid point. The same goes with names. In Tennessee, a name change is amended so the original name, although crossed out, it readable. I didn't even both changing the name on my BC. I'm just sticking with using my Passport in lieu of a BC.

What happens if you lose it and order a replacement?

Quote from: iKate on May 12, 2015, 03:09:11 PM
What happens if you lose it and order a replacement?

If I loose my passport? As long as you have your passport number and a valid state ID (which has female on it), you can get a replacement. Worse case scenario is to show original birth certificate, letter and court order to get a new passport if the number is lost. I keep a photo copy of my passport anyway and a scanned version in my DropBox account.

In the US, this is something that needs fixed at the national level.   Different rules apply to you depending on where you were born.   Although you can decide to live wherever you want, you can't exactly choose your birth state.  Changing gender markers only after proof of surgery is discriminatory to those who cannot afford it or those who are content with being non-op.

I would like to see a transgender bill of rights passed on the federal level, becuse the patchwork of laws we have isn't working and is highly unfair.   

Quote from: Arch on May 11, 2015, 12:31:29 AM
I don't consider this an accurate portrayal of the status of the fifty states. Please note that "amending" a birth certificate is not (or not necessarily) the same as altering it. 

A case in point is my birth state of South Carolina, which "amends" but does NOT actually change the birth certificate. SC insists on attaching an "amendment card" to the original BC so that all can see exactly what was changed. The original BC is not altered in any way. I suppose that this situation beats no change at all, but not by much, in my opinion. I would never be able to maintain my privacy with such a birth certificate.

Other states insist on doing something similar--in some way pointing out the alteration and outing the bearer to anyone who cares to read the document.

Huh, interesting that this varies from state to state. In Oregon, an amendment to the original BC mandates that the original be government sealed from public and government view and the amended/altered (in Oregon it's essentially the same, semantics unimportant) becomes your birth certificate for all intents and purposes, no strings/cards attached.

Quote from: kelly_aus on May 10, 2015, 07:52:04 PM
Grace, if you have a whole bunch of money spare, what you need to do is take the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages to court - the High Court. Citing the High Court decision against the WA Registrar, also throwing in the human rights issue along the way.

I'm kinda tempted to have a lower level dig at the Registrar here in Victoria, just need to find a lawyer willing to do it pro bono.

We had someone win a case against the NSW Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages for the right to have no sex registered on their birth certificate - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norrie_May-Welby

Don't know if they had a pro bono lawyer or not.

I have had, and still have, mixed feelings about surgical requirements. On the one hand, I can see that having a strict surgical requirement eliminates certain problems and confusion. On the other hand, most, if not all, of said problems arise from people's unreasonable fixation on genitals as absolute categorical determiners. If people weren't so obsessed with genitals, then agencies probably wouldn't be, either. While people ARE so obsessed, we will keep running into ugly situations that could "easily" be solved by a surgical requirement. But what an ugly, insensitive, and discriminatory solution.

The more we push the envelope, the more likely people are to become used to ambiguity. But it's going to take some time, especially in America, where the Puritan heritage still holds sway.

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on May 12, 2015, 09:29:11 PM
If I loose my passport? As long as you have your passport number and a valid state ID (which has female on it), you can get a replacement. Worse case scenario is to show original birth certificate, letter and court order to get a new passport if the number is lost. I keep a photo copy of my passport anyway and a scanned version in my DropBox account.

No, I meant your BC. What happens if you lose it and need to order a replacement? Do they issue it with the new name? Or do they issue it with the old name and cross it out and put your new name?

And Dropbox, yikes. I keep my document copies encrypted on a DVD stored at home in a fireproof heavy safe and in a safe deposit box at the bank.

Quote from: Jill F on May 12, 2015, 09:43:18 PM
In the US, this is something that needs fixed at the national level.   Different rules apply to you depending on where you were born.   Although you can decide to live wherever you want, you can't exactly choose your birth state.  Changing gender markers only after proof of surgery is discriminatory to those who cannot afford it or those who are content with being non-op.

I would like to see a transgender bill of rights passed on the federal level, becuse the patchwork of laws we have isn't working and is highly unfair.

This would probably require a constitutional amendment which will be resisted because of states rights. The birth certificate issue at least. Something easier than this (which, essentially is force) is to win hearts and minds and get state laws and policies passed.

Quote from: iKate on May 13, 2015, 07:34:14 AM
No, I meant your BC. What happens if you lose it and need to order a replacement? Do they issue it with the new name? Or do they issue it with the old name and cross it out and put your new name?

No, they issue a certified copy with the crossed out name.

Quote
And Dropbox, yikes. I keep my document copies encrypted on a DVD stored at home in a fireproof heavy safe and in a safe deposit box at the bank.

Those files are encrypted prior to putting them on Dropbox. After hearing how the US Government was able for Dropbox to hand someones files, that means that if someone else can do that, then its possible to hack.