Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I posted this in the FTM forum, but someone else told me that it would be a good idea to post this here, where more people can see it:

So, I'm a freshman in high school, and I would love to be able to serve my country (USA) and be able to get an education. The sad thing is that there is still a ban on transgender people serving, but I've seen some articles from last year where they are considering reviewing the ban since DADT was removed. Is there a possibility that the ban could be lifted in a few years? I really want to be able to apply for a ROTC scholarship or of the sort. I'm also concerned that with elections soon, it may not be reviewed? I don't know much about this stuff. Any input would be great.
Thanks

Currently serving active military myself. Recently my dysphoria got so bad I was having trouble functioning. Lashing out, etc. My CoC set me up an appointment with the ship's Psych and I basically poured everything out to him. We're looking into whether or not I can stay in the military and under what conditions.

I say that so you get an idea of where I'm coming from.

Despite what the media has said there are NO plans to review the current stance on trans* service members. Yes, the DoD is currently doing a blanket review of the entire medical policy of the military. IIRC that is supposed to take until the end of the year. Trans* issues will obviously be reviewed during that process but there is little indication it will change without the DoD looking specifically at Trans* policies.

Now, with that said, the military IS one of the most progressive workforces so within the next three to five years I can easily see Trans* people being allowed to openly serve and, hopefully, be allowed to even transition in the military.

In the near future, however, I don't see that happening.

Oh buddy... I don't know if you want to remain but depending on what branch you are, you're getting out. Just hope you've earned an Honorable.

Actually, from what I've understood with preliminary talks... if I decide to not go through transition I'd be able to fulfill my service.

But you're right. I'm likely getting out. It'd still be an honorable, so that'll be good.

Sorry to hear Kylie that you might be discharged, but thank you for your input. Man that stinks though that it may take a while though, I hope it can get changed within the next 3 years. Thank you for your service also.

Yeah, I actually hope so to. I love the military, love being in the Navy and seeing all the awesome stuff I never would have otherwise but sometimes you gotta look out for yourself. I'm fine with being discharged, honestly. In the past year, I've seriously started to self-destruct because of my dysphoria. In the past month or so, I've actually been able to sleep without having two or three beers in me.

But! Hopefully, things will change and people like us can openly serve in the armed forces. I'll be hoping for you! :D Maybe you'll have better luck than I did, hehe.

Ah I see, good to hear though that you are getting better. Getting better is always the priority.

I posted this reply in the other thread as well, do you think, hypothetically, if one was able to change their gender marker/name and start hormones before enlisting, that the said person would be able to join the military even if the ban was still there?

Not something I'd be able to answer. I doubt it, though. I know if you enlist for any rate required for a security clearance the FBI would quickly find out about your past. Also, as far as I know, even after you change the gender marker there is still some kind of note or whatever left behind that says it was changed. For day to day purposes, you can't tell the diff, but with government digging into things it could quickly come out.

With that said, that's definitely something to ask either a Legalman or even a recruiter to see if it'd be remotely possible. I haven't heard of anyone serving after a transition, however.

Thanks for your reply, you're right, the FBI would probably find out and then shut that down unfortunately :/ it really stinks, since if I were to do that, even being almost as male as possible, I couldnt join. But I guess I'll just have to hope for a change in the ban for the future. If it were to change, I'd probably be on T by then and excited to possibly enlist. Thanks Kylie. 

It is ironic that I am actually listening to military cadence songs while I am reading this.

I have been researching this as it has been my desire to serve in the military.  However, from what I am gathering, the military is getting a lot tougher to get into, especially the Army.  When Obama decided to pull a lot of the troops out, many soldiers were cut....including good officers.  Heck, even waivers are getting harder to come by.  More people are trying to join than the demand that is needed. Needless to say that any scope of transitioning while or before joining can send out a big red flag.  You maybe could have a name change, get on hormones for a while, get off of them and then join.  From what I understand, having surgery before hand like top surgery would be a an automatic dis qualifier in some cases.

Shane Ortega is a transman serving in the Air Force openly, so it is not all doom and gloom, but he still has to wear the female service dress blues.  I DO think transgender people will be allowed in to openly serve in general within the next five years.  I'm hoping so too because I really want to join.

Quote from: Pizzaparty78 on May 17, 2015, 09:24:53 PM
Ah I see, good to hear though that you are getting better. Getting better is always the priority.

I posted this reply in the other thread as well, do you think, hypothetically, if one was able to change their gender marker/name and start hormones before enlisting, that the said person would be able to join the military even if the ban was still there?

I don't know about the Air Force guy apparently serving but I do know the Navy med rules specifically classify being transgender as a mental condition and they probably discharge under condition not a disability or something. As far as I know as soon as you voice it, you're gone. Least in the corps it was that way. Wish things would change though..  I'd def go back in if I could go back as a man

It's real unfortunate that it's the case, I do hope that this can be reversed. I've always wondered though how it would work to get T while your enlisted,or estrogen. Be hard to hide it if you were going through hrt while you're in there. It seems kinda ridiculous though that if someone were to get top surgery or whatever that it would disqualify you, it doesn't affect your health really. Only temporarily after the surgery from what I know. 

I got discharged under don't ask don't tell. I went through a really bad bout of depression after a operation gone wrong and lost some close friends. my gender dysphoria surfaced and well, the rest is history. I planned on being Navy till retirement. But we all know how things get screwed up  :-\    I hope they lift the ban, I dout i'd re-enlist at this point, but I don't wanna see anyone elses careers get destroyed for feeling comfortable in their own body.

Quote from: Pizzaparty78 on May 18, 2015, 10:40:33 PM
It's real unfortunate that it's the case, I do hope that this can be reversed. I've always wondered though how it would work to get T while your enlisted,or estrogen. Be hard to hide it if you were going through hrt while you're in there. It seems kinda ridiculous though that if someone were to get top surgery or whatever that it would disqualify you, it doesn't affect your health really. Only temporarily after the surgery from what I know.

the thing is with those, military isn't like a normal job, there is no such thing as 'days off' or 'sick days'  you serve till you qualify for shoreleave or as civilians call it 'vacation days'   so optional surgeries like those (picked optional based on how insurance companies and the military lists them)  you would have to have enough Shore-leave saved up to cover the time your gone and recover, on top of the fact you have to get it pre-approved,  Your literally classified as military property once you sign the line.  which means to do anything to your body surgery, or even cosmetics (tattoos or piercings) you gotta get clearance ta do so or Risk getting an Article 15 (destruction of government property)  I got two of them, one of getting a nasty sunburn, and another one for dislocating my ankle while on shore-leave,   when they revist the ban on transgenders serving, its gonna be a lllllooooonnnnggggg road to getting everything worked out.

served 8 years af.  do it again:)  navy may be hard with dysphoria, but my career, my job was a job, then i went home.  we basically all look the same in uniform, so just dont push it, then your private life is just that!  if you can live it that way?  i knew so many openly gay in the af, yet i was married.  my best friend retired as first shirt for a training base, and he was so openly gay, but the perfect roll model as a soldier.    personally id say go for it and set an example to make us proud:)

Last year, the top level of DoD removed restrictions against being trans from the list of disqualifying factors for service. Now that document is a guideline, but it is supposed to be the basis by which each service defines its own regulations regarding disqualifying factors from service.

The top level of DoD has now warned each service that their current regulations are out of date and may be in violation of overall DoD guidelines. But that won't mean instant change. Each service will now review its regulations regarding disqualifying factors, and proceed from there.

It is highly likely that sometime after 2016 the services will formally adopt regulations to allow transgender service members the ability to serve, but this has not yet happened. And these reviews can take a few years to complete so all we can say at this point is that we should all be patient while we wait for these reviews to complete. I do know that Kristin Beck was involved in some of these discussions as well as other activists.


http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2014/11/26/lgbt-transgender-dod-policy-loophole-military-service/70105532/

Quote from: LizMarie on May 24, 2015, 01:29:17 PM
Last year, the top level of DoD removed restrictions against being trans from the list of disqualifying factors for service. Now that document is a guideline, but it is supposed to be the basis by which each service defines its own regulations regarding disqualifying factors from service.

The top level of DoD has now warned each service that their current regulations are out of date and may be in violation of overall DoD guidelines. But that won't mean instant change. Each service will now review its regulations regarding disqualifying factors, and proceed from there.

It is highly likely that sometime after 2016 the services will formally adopt regulations to allow transgender service members the ability to serve, but this has not yet happened. And these reviews can take a few years to complete so all we can say at this point is that we should all be patient while we wait for these reviews to complete. I do know that Kristin Beck was involved in some of these discussions as well as other activists.


http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2014/11/26/lgbt-transgender-dod-policy-loophole-military-service/70105532/

^This.

Basically the situation I'm in. I'm not getting discharged for being Trans, rather more for the fact that my dysphoria has gotten so bad my thoughts have recently turned to considering more... permanent and less appealing solutions. After a fun month with those dark thoughts, I went to the Psych. He's already stated multiple times that it isn't grounds for separation unless it affects my job. So, if just talking ends up helping me out enough to the point where I can hang on until the end of my contract, I will be one super happy person AND still in the Navy.

If it helps, other militaries around the world are getting on just fine with Trans* people. Maybe this will have an influence on the US when it reviews these policies...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11354436/British-Armys-first-transgender-officer-was-living-an-act.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11354436/British-Armys-first-transgender-officer-was-living-an-act.html)

Being 8 years army, and another s6 years to go for reserve, with a close to top secret clearance. I hope they do get to change the policy. I'm getting frustrated at myself and the ways that I have to remain male mode more often then not. I do like the benefits I get for paid schooling, getting paid to go to doctors/dentists appointments and everything. But my sanity is far from healthy, though I can't let them know, can't let them just toss me to the side like a bad habit.
I would love to stay in the military, but at the same time, I need to be happy, I need to be who I am and not give a care of what others think.

Quote from: Teela Renee on May 22, 2015, 03:56:10 PM

the thing is with those, military isn't like a normal job, there is no such thing as 'days off' or 'sick days'  you serve till you qualify for shoreleave or as civilians call it 'vacation days'   so optional surgeries like those (picked optional based on how insurance companies and the military lists them)  you would have to have enough Shore-leave saved up to cover the time your gone and recover, on top of the fact you have to get it pre-approved,  Your literally classified as military property once you sign the line.  which means to do anything to your body surgery, or even cosmetics (tattoos or piercings) you gotta get clearance ta do so or Risk getting an Article 15 (destruction of government property)  I got two of them, one of getting a nasty sunburn, and another one for dislocating my ankle while on shore-leave,   when they revist the ban on transgenders serving, its gonna be a lllllooooonnnnggggg road to getting everything worked out.

I got a major sunburn on my feet while in Crete for live missile firing. I was told flat out if you can't put your boots on
and lace them up, head down to the Captain's office for an Article 15. I did it, but what a mess my feet were when the blisters started to let go.

While I'm here, anyone who hasn't checked in at  Roll Call!  (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,96755.0.html) please do so now!

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Katiepie on May 26, 2015, 12:44:14 PM
Being 8 years army, and another s6 years to go for reserve, with a close to top secret clearance. I hope they do get to change the policy.

Just a question - did they change the law at some point? When I got out after 8 years, I was informed (because I asked) that having completed 8 years active duty that I had no reserve obligation left. My name would be added to the IRR, but I would be one of the last likely called should it have been necessary. Now that was 30 years ago last month, hence my question about the law.

Well in the initial contract I had was a 6 year contract, with a two year (optional). I'm not entirely certain on the laws, but close to a 6 month time frame of my contract ending, was mandatory counselling with retention, to have the possibility to extend, resign, or just finish the term and be done.

I had of course opted to resign into a 6 year term, so I can remain receiving my benefits and not lose it, since in my contract was stated if I were to finish term, I would not receive my benefits any more. I should have read through my contract better. I was a stupid 20 year old, that just wanted to escape from life in any which way possible back then and in a hurry.

Quote from: LizMarie on May 26, 2015, 04:05:01 PM
Just a question - did they change the law at some point? When I got out after 8 years, I was informed (because I asked) that having completed 8 years active duty that I had no reserve obligation left. My name would be added to the IRR, but I would be one of the last likely called should it have been necessary. Now that was 30 years ago last month, hence my question about the law.

Thanks! I was just curious, and didn't mean to derail the thread.

For anybody who is interested, Google Joanna Clark and read about her. As far as I know she was the last Post OP to serve in the military. I knew her very well when I was under medical treatment.

Pizza and King, an option to consider might be non-enlisted employment with one of the armed forces.  Long story short, I had a relationship fall apart (partly for being trans, partly other reasons) and ended up unemployed in a bad economy as result.  DARPA wound up supporting my education, putting a roof over my head, food on the table, and keeping me off the streets.  Not the same as the GI bill and not the same as working for a defense contractor but I'm quite thankful for the support.  It was the second time I worked for the Navy, the first being a civilian GS-03 position keeping some of the wheels turning at one of their bases.

I think they will change the laws for transgender to be allowed in the military, just not the hardcore combat arms arena, like marine corps infantry, ranger, and special forces, yet. I believe that the Army Rangers is in the midst with qualifications with a female army ranger candidate in the Ranger qualification training to qualify for the Ranger Tab or being called a Ranger. Just to give you a view how people never imagined in the past breaking through traditional male jobs. Women are pushing their way into combat arms roles, even though some other countries do allow them already. In the next 20 years major changes in roles and laws will take place, which will be an interesting time.

Thanks all for the replies, I do find it quite interesting how there isn't a ban anymore on trans people. I had no idea. So as long as the dysphoria isn't distracting you from your job, correct? What if the person was taking hormones of some sort, would that be allowed?

Pizza, it's complicated. The top level DOD regulations have changed but the individual services have not yet (so far as I know), so a huge factor is whether your local commander is transphobic or not. There are now a couple openly serving trans people in the US military but at the same time other trans people are still being discharged, and with general discharges, not honorable.

So the regulations are a mess right now. You can't assume you'd be ok. You might or you might not.