Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've noticed vast differences between Strangers perceptions and friends and relatives perceptions...

To total strangers who I don't know or I have never met I'm only regarded as female by appearance and perception. On the other hand my relatives and friends will still not except me for who I am and continually call me by my old male name, and fail to see any differences or female traits.

I wonder if this happens to others? but to be fair to my relatives and friends I did look fairly feminine long before transition, so it's harder for them to accept me rather than someone who has gone through more radical extreamities and might have had a vast change in their appearance during their transition.
 

Posted on: September 04, 2007, 12:10:35 AM

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So this doesn't happen to anyone else?

I just came out to my sister, and showed her this photo, this avatar...

She says she sees a girl, but also she see her brother in lipstick.

I see that too. Both of me.

Quote from: Candi Nahasapeemapetilon on September 05, 2007, 04:58:43 AM
I just came out to my sister, and showed her this photo, this avatar...

She says she sees a girl, but also she see her brother in lipstick.

I see that too. Both of me.

I don't. You seem like a woman to me. Both in looks and personality.

Love always,
Elizabeth

One of the issues that our families have is that their expectations have been dashed somewhat.  Right from birth our parents and relatives have plans or are already planning our future(s).  They start college funds, tell their friends about how their son or daughter "The doctor", the "Fire fighter", will be following in their footsteps carrying on family traditions etc. you get the idea.

We're nurtured and moulded as our family sees how we will turn out, and then wham!  They find out we are not as they had raised us, their hope and dreams can be dashed, they sometimes see that they have some how failed, they even sometimes think "What will the neighbors think".

They don't understand that it's not their fault.  They can think that they have wasted all that time and effort, they can't admit we are other than what they brought up.  Family often have much time and effort invested in us, whereas our friends, acquaintances, and strangers have not, so it really is of no consequence to them who or what we are.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

Conversely friends you make after you transition tend to see you in the best light of all.

I looked very masculine to all who knew me. With the help of a few hormones, I have softened my look and I don't look quite  like I use to. I have changed quite a bit and the aquaintences that I use to know will walk right on by me and not notice who I am. I do look female and if you really look at me you could see all my flaws. I'm not here to let people examine me so if they want they can ask me and I will tell them. No secrets here. My mom sees the female side of me now and that was very enlighting to me. I also see the female in me and that was the only person I was trying to change. We live in a society now that has a lot of single parent households or they have multiple parents. It isn't like the 50's anymore, Leave it to Beaver got a divorce. Be yourself and don't let others make you over. It is not you.
Sheila

Quote from: Berliegh on September 05, 2007, 04:53:46 AM
I've noticed vast differences between Strangers perceptions and friends and relatives perceptions...

Yup.

I recently posted about meeting someone who was warned that I'm trans, and yet when they met me, they thought they had the wrong person, as I was "just a woman" to them.

And yet, coworkers, friends and family don't really see it (nor do I). They generally say things like, "well, you do look a little different... maybe a little more feminine." Pronouns get messed up, and even when they get it right it sometimes seems forced, honorary, AS IF seems implied.

For that matter though, I know a few people now who know I'm trans, but have ONLY known me as Kate. They use Hers and Shes spontaneously with me, and make references and teasing jokes appropriate to women only - but with none of the forced, AS IF feeling I get from people who knew me as a male.

~Kate~

My new friends (which is about all of them) cannot imagine me having ever been a guy. I do not share old photos, use the old voice, or even tell them what my name used to be way back when.

Coworkers are pretty good about the change. There is an occasional slip up and a few who do it on purpose but that is about it. One even commented that she has a hard time remembering the old me. :)

Kate, I have done the same thing in showing up at a function where people know that I am T but may not have met me face to face yet. On several occasions I have been approached either during the function or later in email/chat and been told that they had no idea that the person they knew of and the person they met were one is the same.

Oh and the forced or stressed pronoun could also be a way of that person drilling the change into their head and not necessarily because they are having difficulty with the overall situation.

QuoteOh and the forced or stressed pronoun could also be a way of that person drilling the change into their head and not necessarily because they are having difficulty with the overall situation.

I would like to second this opinion. I had a friend transition about 15 years ago. No matter what she did she looked like a man in a dress. Nevertheless, I made a big effort to use the right names and pronouns. Not because I cared about the situation but out of affection for the person and my desire to do the right thing. So when the other person seems to be trying please consider that a plus not a negative. Eventually, they will get it right and it will become routine.

my family never really accepted me, they are gradually getting used to it. people outside don't seem to have a problem

Posted on: September 06, 2007, 11:25:30 AM

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oh also can i say hi to everyone in here, im saying it here because i dont really feel comfortable announcing myself in front of crossdressers etc my names danielle im 29 i know berliegh from other forums 

Quote from: Steph on September 05, 2007, 06:09:41 AM
One of the issues that our families have is that their expectations have been dashed somewhat.  Right from birth our parents and relatives have plans or are already planning our future(s).  They start college funds, tell their friends about how their son or daughter "The doctor", the "Fire fighter", will be following in their footsteps carrying on family traditions etc. you get the idea.

We're nurtured and moulded as our family sees how we will turn out, and then wham!  They find out we are not as they had raised us, their hope and dreams can be dashed, they sometimes see that they have some how failed, they even sometimes think "What will the neighbors think".

They don't understand that it's not their fault.  They can think that they have wasted all that time and effort, they can't admit we are other than what they brought up.  Family often have much time and effort invested in us, whereas our friends, acquaintances, and strangers have not, so it really is of no consequence to them who or what we are.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

That's totally true, Steph. I have a lot of family who no longer talks to me -- I just don't exit any more to them, I'm dead to them. For them, it makes it much easier to deal with my change. They had an idea, especially my grandparents who helped raising me a lot. For a long time I tried to live up to there standards, but it wasn't who I was. It was hard, and is still hard, that I have been cut out of their lives, but I also understand their point of view and how imagining that I'm dead helps them deal with the hurt and feeling that they failed.

It took my brother almost 10 months after I went full-time before he talked to me again. I'm glad he's been talking to me recently. It was hard when he cut me out, but then he realized that I needed to be who I am and that I wasn't going to change. My mom talks to me, and has all the way through. She's alright with it now, but at first it was difficult. My dad doesn't talk to me -- he has a few times, with a bit of lip service, and then stopped talking to me never returning my calls or emails. He wasn't there much in my life anyway, but it's still hard.

My friends, however, have been the best. My roommates are my family now... three sisters. My main support network is through the wonderful friends I've made. If I didn't have my friends, it would have been a lonely and difficult transition.

I think that it is easier for friends and strangers to adapt than family members. It also can depend on the family member and their background. A lot of my family is Mormon, so, being trans isn't a good thing in the church and I also give them a bad name (they feel like they failed, since I failed in the "church's" eye). Gender is such a huge important doctrinal point in the church, so changing your gender isn't taken lightly and forever bars me from the organization (not that I care, I don't believe in the church and I left it for a reason). So, there's a combo of upbringing as well as social pressures.

--natalie

Before I went full time, an old friend of mine used to take me out to lunch a lot in return for some graphics work I did for him. After I went full time, he was fine with it and supportive and all, but when we decided to go out to lunch, I could tell that he was worried about how I would be treated in some of the places we had gone in the past.

Once we were in the restaurant, he actually seemed surprised that no one seemed to know that there was anything out of the ordinary going on! It was as if he expected that everyone in the place would know, and couldn't believe it when the waitress called me ma'am.

Once again, it was a case of someone who knew you before having a harder time dealing with it than people who have never seen you before.

Quote from: Annie Social on September 10, 2007, 07:12:44 PM
Once we were in the restaurant, he actually seemed surprised that no one seemed to know that there was anything out of the ordinary going on! It was as if he expected that everyone in the place would know, and couldn't believe it when the waitress called me ma'am.

Exactly my experience with a few of my friends in the beginning. Whenever we'd go to dinner, they'd give me this nice pep talk about not caring about what anyone says, ignore the stares, etc., lol. Which of course made me feel WORSE, as I was assuming nothing would happen. They were trying to be supportive, but it hurts to have someone basically telling you to EXPECT to be seen as an oddity.

Of course nothing at all happened, and I realized what a different perception of me friends have vs. strangers.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on September 11, 2007, 08:59:51 AM
They were trying to be supportive, but it hurts to have someone basically telling you to EXPECT to be seen as an oddity.

Of course nothing at all happened, and I realized what a different perception of me friends have vs. strangers.

~Kate~

That is the point. And, I think, Anne's as well, Kate.

The people you know and who think they know you, are those very often the most flabbergasted when strangers do not "see" what the friends, etc., think they "see."

Gender is such a conditioned state for us. I suspect that untiol most people actually discover that they know a TS they don't even consider gender: like having hearts and lungs they seem to consider gender just a basic part of the boxed equipment of being human.

Nor does it dawn on many that just as a cleft palate or spina bifida are naturally occurring human birth difficulties in development that a gender identity that appears to be unconjoined with genitalia is also a naturally occurring human birth difficulty.

Strangers do what we all do: they gender almost immediately and they do so from cues they divine without even thinking.

Trust me, if strangers gender you female and then interact and continue to interact with you as female, then for them: you are female. And, just for your ego's sake.

If your family and friends were to meet you now and have to gender you? Well, it would be ma'am or miss. *grin*

Nichole

Family is always the harshest judge.  You cannot succeed at anything because they all "knew you when."  Want proof besides transitioning?  Just go into your own business and see where they buy.

Family is judgmental.  With very few exceptions, old friends tend to stop contact.  I have a man friend whom I've known for 51 years and we still correspond but I haven't seen him since I transitioned.

The friends I have made as a result of transition are wonderful.  I don't feel obliged to tell everyone of my past and to my new friends I'm another woman making her way through this life.

I have made enough overtures to my family.  If they have a problem with me, pits on them.  I've always been "out there" anyway.

Wing Walker

Quote from: Wing Walker on September 12, 2007, 12:45:30 AM
With very few exceptions, old friends tend to stop contact.

Only two acquaintances of mine (an ex-corworker and a friend I used to game with) had a problem with me, both of them telling me, "I'm not ready for that!" when invited to see me as Kate. They both hadn't seen me for many, many months when I told them I had transitioned, so they didn't get to watch the the gradual changes - they just remember the male, and I'm SURE picture "him" crossdressing now.

One of them told me, "My wife had a client the other day like you: a person came in wearing high heels, a skirt and makeup... and she could tell they were a man underneath. I try to embrace all lifestyles, but..."

I TRIED to tell him it's not like that, I'm just a boring, middle-aged woman in jeans and tops and sandals and no makeup... but he wasn't listening. I tried to tell him that whether I "pass" or not, I AM *congruent*, if that makes sense.

I think oftentimes people get this image stuck in their heads, and let that fear and discomfort take over without giving us a chance. My parents are facing that conflict now, as they're about to meet Kate for the first time - and judging by the silly questions they ask, they do NOT get it, lol.

With old friends and relatives who HAVE met me, I always seem to be a letdown, lol... a big yawn, like "THIS is what all the fuss was about? Geez... big deal." And we all go out and do more things together now much, much more than we ever did when I was a male.

~Kate~

My parents and a few of my co-workers still get pronouns wrong. It took a while for the name to sink in as well. I am not sure how 'female' they take me considering that but strangers and people I meet seem to universally take me as female.

I know there are times I still see bits of the old me in the mirror and get depressed but I am finding that it is more of a mental history playing tricks with perception. It gets better over time and gets harder and harder to imagine a time not being your true self.

Quote from: Wing Walker on September 12, 2007, 12:45:30 AM
With very few exceptions, old friends tend to stop contact.

My experience has been just the opposite: I haven't had a single friend stop contact with me over my transition. I think it depends largely on why you became friends in the first place; if most of your friends are really business associates, who see your friendship as something beneficial to their career, then you are likely to lose them. Most of my friends are people I have known for ages, with whom I have stayed in touch just because we like each other and enjoy talking and hanging out. Every one of them was completely accepting.

I had a guy friend that I was very close with for over 8 years. He knew, at the time, that I was TV. He would even come out to the clubs with me. However, the minute that I announced my intention to transition, things got weird with our friendship. He accused me of betraying him 'cause I had told him years ago that I would never transition. I was still looking pretty guy-like about a year ago when he freaked on me 'cause I was wearing black nail polish. I made exceptions for him when we would go out together, but after about 6 months, I realised that if I'm not willing to make exceptions for my family why am I making exceptions for friends. I also figured that if I was gonna b going fulltime, there was NO WAY IN HELL that I was gonna show up looking like a guy for him. I decided to flush the friendship. He made it easy for me by never even attempting to contact me again. I still find the whole thing very very sad.

As far as my female friends r concerned... they have all been amazing. My only problems have been with straight men and my family... most of whom aren't talking to me anymore. My brother, however, has been amazing! He has been there for me every step of the way. My transition has brought us closer together than we have ever been.

Valerie x

oh yeah.... how do I post my photo on this thingy. Thanx.  :P

I have found that friends and family will have the hardest time seeing your new self because they already have a previous image of you in their heads.

Quote from: ValerieMTL on September 17, 2007, 08:02:52 AM
Valerie x

oh yeah.... how do I post my photo on this thingy. I'm a computer retard. Thanx.  :P

(BTW Valerie ... you should be aware that you are using a very derogatory term.  I work with adults with developmental disabilities who would take great offense to that term.  We really consider it a slur. Please consider this next time you post.)

I agree with both comments; it seems that those who knew us longest have the most problem not seeing the old person.

Quote from: genopunk on September 18, 2007, 08:05:37 PM
I have found that friends and family will have the hardest time seeing your new self because they already have a previous image of you in their heads.
(BTW Valerie ... you should be aware that you are using a very derogatory term.  I work with adults with developmental disabilities who would take great offense to that term.  We really consider it a slur. Please consider this next time you post.)

On the second part; I am sure there probably was not intent to be derogatory (though it tis). As a disenfranchised group we should be aware of how we refer to others.

Hi Genopunk,

If ur gonna get all politically correct with me, and give me grief, the least that u could do is answer my question; U know, the whole two wrongs don't make a right. BTW, does this mean that Im not allowed to refer to myself as queer? Does this also mean that all those African American rappers need to stop calling each other the "n" word? Is this the reason why that show is called the "L" Word? Sorry, but I've never been a fan of being politically correct, all it does is get people to hate each other behind their backs rather than to their faces. It also prevents people from engaging in intelligent dialogue about things that they do not understand. I do NOT consider "developmentally challenged" people to b retards... but I DO consider MYSELF to be a computer retard. Deal with it. I have.


Valerie x

If you'll note, genopunk doesn't have her picture posted either, so she might not know the answer. And she pointed out quite nicely that the word is a slur. If you don't belong to a group, you can't be part of reclaiming language for them. It's not political correctness, it's courtesy, and we expect it on this board.

And the answer is you need 15 posts before you can post your picture.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for answering my question.

My use of the "offending" word was not intended as a slur in any respect. I'm quite aware of when I'm using a slur to insult a person or a group of persons. I belong to enuff marginalized groups of my own. As far as needing to "belong" to a certain group in order to reclaim a word or term... I DON'T agree with that AT ALL. I have no use for anyone who uses the "n" word... and this includes above all... people of African origin. Too many people have suffered for the use of this word for there to be any justification for its use.

On the other hand (and in my opinion)... certain words need to be redefined already. Terms such as "social retard" are NOT meant as disrepect to the developmentally challenged. When people refer to something as being "gay", I don't freak out. However, your point is valid in that what is ok for me might not be acceptable (or even offensive) to others. Since I am not close friends with anyone on this forum yet, I will make sure to refrain from the use of any language that some might find offensive. I apologize to those that were offended.

Hopefully... we can now get back to the actually topic and spend more time discussing what I said, rather than how I said it.

Valerie x

Quote from: Steph on September 05, 2007, 06:09:41 AM
One of the issues that our families have is that their expectations have been dashed somewhat.  Right from birth our parents and relatives have plans or are already planning our future(s).  They start college funds, tell their friends about how their son or daughter "The doctor", the "Fire fighter", will be following in their footsteps carrying on family traditions etc. you get the idea.

We're nurtured and moulded as our family sees how we will turn out, and then wham!  They find out we are not as they had raised us, their hope and dreams can be dashed, they sometimes see that they have some how failed, they even sometimes think "What will the neighbors think".

They don't understand that it's not their fault.  They can think that they have wasted all that time and effort, they can't admit we are other than what they brought up.  Family often have much time and effort invested in us, whereas our friends, acquaintances, and strangers have not, so it really is of no consequence to them who or what we are.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

I know its not their fault...And that they invest only THEIR time in raising me and shaping me. I appreciate the effort...

But...

I freaking hate stuff like that! I cringe in my head whenever my parents introduce me to strangers and tell them my full name and everything. Like...I stay inside all the time, and barely interact with my town (which is dumb and football EFF YEA facism incarnate. It was the original place chosen for the Stepford Wives.)
And then I'll travel out with my parents...And they'll introduce me as some great cartoonist or something, when I still think I suck, and most of my work is questionable if anything. So NOW the stranger has an expectation, and my damn brain still cares about them for some reason...So I cringe even more when I'm forced to give out my website that just started out. So now...a thing with potential for UTTER freedom of creation is gonna have old fogies trolling it on their AOL trying to view content on their dial up. It loads slow-mo and to their horror they might see what I actually make and think I'm sort of sicko...Well...I KINDA AM! THATS WHY I DO ART! So I'm thinking I'm just not gonna censor anything I think of, but I'm gonna have quite a time explaining it to my Conservative Vet Grandpa who can't tell the difference in characters cause its Animeish, and has written his children rite of passage letters which accuse them of being a "->-bleeped-<-got". Not to mention the fact he'll live forever, and we JUST started being on good terms...And he's got money that can help out Art  School MAYBE. So if he found out what I really wanted to be, hell no would I get support from him.

So I think I'm gonna alienate the hell out of these people...And I never wanted to really give a crap, but I might. CWAP.

As for my friends...I almost wish I did this forever ago so I could start them anew, but If I were a full time girl at that time...I doubt the relationships would've progressed so far, cause I act like an older brother to a lot of these guys, and its a rarity that they confide their deepest thoughts in a girl. It may sound reverse shallow, but no matter what, getting close to a girl and confiding could get dangerously close to further than friends. So I'm happy they see me as a "Smart and Nerdy...And Weird, but nonetheless Doood, Dude"

I pretty much was more dudish and typical in school. So one of my best friends probably notices a change in me anyway...Even if its just "Maturing".

*breathes.....*