Susan's Place Transgender Resources

God Is Transgender

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christian-piatt/god-is-transgender_b_7717840.html?utm_hp_ref=transgender

The Huffington Post/by Christian Piatt     o7/02/2015

" I had a text discussion this morning with two of my theological colleagues, and one asked if we felt the "cosmic Christ," was necessarily male or female. This also led to our understanding of the Holy Spirit, and ultimately to how we understood God. And it was then that I came to a realization about my theology:

God is Transgender"

Interesting. By their description, not only is God trans, but also non-binary  ;D

Wow, that's a very interesting point of view. I have some people to show it to, hehehe.

A few years ago I read another analysis, not so literal, that concluded that god is actually a trans woman. It was based on how the god from the old testament punished, killed, hated, scared, treated the people of Israel like a father and generally had what are considered male attributes, while the god from the new testament is feminine, motherly, loving, caring, forgiving, etc.

Now, other religions do consider god as a masculine/feminine duality as part of their canon.

And here, I thought Eve was the original transsexual...

I love this! And it made sense immediately. If God is all things then God must be occasionally either binary, both, neither and all the other gender variations. I do feel, and have felt as I moved toward transition, that becoming my true self was a way to reconnect with my sense of the divine. Transition has been in many ways a spiritual revelation.

This made my day, thanks for posting it stephaniec!

no problem, why do you think God made the rainbow

Ok, I am just throwing this out there, that article is claiming in the bible (Which one, King James, other?) that God is referred to as a woman at least 13 times. Yet, doesn't bother to list the places in said bible where it says this? It is true neutral (we, they etc.) are used but still, it doesn't list it in the article which is very odd. People need proof you know and I asked a friend of mine whose read multiple bibles and lives in EU as to whether or not this is the case. He seemed to think it didn't. Now granted, he might not have read the original Hebrew translation, I don't know. I'm trying to reach out to someone else who might know but at this time, this is highly questionable HOWEVER! I would like to just say if this is true and I wouldn't doubt it, then God is more accurately known as a gender bender if (s)he is changing genders physically/appearance wise. There is another term that's used to describe a being with both male and female parts that's hardly used these days and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called but it's a very old word, ancient I think.

update: (please excuse double post though it has been 4 days already)

I've spoken with 2 people I know, one lives in EU, the other knows the Hebrew language because that's their native language and he reads their Hebrew bible. If you've read the article in the OP post then just know, it's a load of crap. They don't know a thing about Hebrew language according to the person whose native language is Hebrew. According to him, they never use female pronouns in the Hebrew bible and it's always gender inclusive, in fact, he says the only time they do use male form is in the verb but even then there is no female verb that is referring to God.

So there you have it. Take what you will of that and while it's true I myself don't know Hebrew nor have I read the Hebrew bible, at the same time I got 2 people who I trust telling me that article is wrong in many ways. Add into the fact the poster of the article didn't bother to list actual references of where those 13 times God was "supposedly" referred to as a female and that further shots the credibility of the article. 

I figured it was a load of crap before i even read it. Thank you for clearing that up.

I shared this with my Mom who is a feminist and a lay preacher and elder in the Presbyterian church. I believe she went to Princeton seminary and studied Greek and Hebrew there. She was blasé about the whole idea, suggesting to me it is old hat.

interesting read and a different point of view!  ;D

*
Please view this week's (15 Aug 15) episode of PBS 'Religion and Ethics Newsweekly' (check your local listings or go to PBS.org).

They include an extended segment about transgender in Christian churches. They interview people who are trans and people who are ordained ministers who welcome trans into their church.

If an anti-trans Christian wants to view the issue with an open mind, at least this is a start.  Doubtfull any hard-core anti- would consider watching let alone coming away with a renewed perspective.

*

God is a Girl!
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVIFMbwxOc)

Gendering God, trans or not, makes no sense from a religious viewpoint.
God is, by necessity, supragender.

Quote from: cathyrains on September 07, 2015, 12:56:32 PM
Gendering God, trans or not, makes no sense from a religious viewpoint.
God is, by necessity, supragender.

To quote Joyce: "In the name of Anna the allmaziful, the everliving, bringer of plurabilities. Haloed be her eve, her singtime sung, her rill be run, unhemmed as it is uneven. Her untitled mamafesta memorialising the mosthighest has gone by many names at disjointed times...."

In itself, God is an abstract principle. Principles like that aren't gendered and literary personfications and hypostases aren't literally descriptive of God. She is unknowable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology). But there are elements in the way God is perceived through many cultures, that are considered feminine. In Judaism there's the Shekhinah, in christianity Maria, in Hinduism the Shakhti, in Buddhism there is the perfection of wisdom (the prajna paramita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajnaparamita)), which is considered female, and so on. Two texts I can really recommend on the feminine principle in religion are:

Dakini's warm breath (http://www.shambhala.com/dakini-s-warm-breath.html); the feminine principle in tibetan Buddhism by Judith Simmer-Brown and Gershom Scholem's essay Shekhinah; the feminine element in divinity (http://www.dhushara.com/book/torah/cardoza/shape.htm), that can be found in his "Mystical shape of the godhead".

Quote from: Naomi71 on September 08, 2015, 03:40:32 AM

In itself, God is an abstract principle. Principles like that aren't gendered and literary personfications and hypostases aren't literally descriptive of God. She is unknowable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology). But there are elements in the way God is perceived through many cultures, that are considered feminine. In Judaism there's the Shekhinah, in christianity Maria, in Hinduism the Shakhti, in Buddhism there is the perfection of wisdom (the prajna paramita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajnaparamita)), which is considered female, and so on. Two texts I can really recommend on the feminine principle in religion are:

Dakini's warm breath (http://www.shambhala.com/dakini-s-warm-breath.html); the feminine principle in tibetan Buddhism by Judith Simmer-Brown and Gershom Scholem's essay Shekhinah; the feminine element in divinity (http://www.dhushara.com/book/torah/cardoza/shape.htm), that can be found in his "Mystical shape of the godhead".

To cite instances of "God as the divine feminine" in various religions* is cherrypicking to the extent that you might as well be creating your own "abstract God principle". Monotheistic religions see God as the divine creator. Gender and sex do not precede or define the creator. Put simply: God created the sexes, humans created gender. You can choose to perceive God as if viewing through a gendered Urim and Thummim but the divine remains necessarily supragender.

*I'll discount any references to Buddhism since it is nontheistic. Likewise any polytheistic religions are irrelevant to the topic of "God is transgender" which refers to a singular God. 

Quote from: cathyrains on September 08, 2015, 11:17:25 AM
To cite instances of "God as the divine feminine" in various religions* is cherrypicking to the extent that you might as well be creating your own "abstract God principle". Monotheistic religions see God as the divine creator. Gender and sex do not precede or define the creator. Put simply: God created the sexes, humans created gender. You can choose to perceive God as if viewing through a gendered Urim and Thummim but the divine remains necessarily supragender.

*I'll discount any references to Buddhism since it is nontheistic. Likewise any polytheistic religions are irrelevant to the topic of "God is transgender" which refers to a singular God.

Aren't you misreading me? I don't actually think we disagree. That's why I stated that "God" is an abstract, nongendered principle (instead of a person) and yes, I was cherrypicking. Not to "prove" that God is a Girl, but to point to some feminine elements of divinity. What's wrong with that? And btw, that Buddhism is nontheistic, doesn't mean it doesn't have have a concept of divinity and elements in that often have feminine personifications: the Prajna Paramita, Tara, the Dakini,or  Vajrayogini, to mention just a few.

To my mind it's not wrong at all to have a personal concept of the deity, that is feminine. In Judaism there' a difference between the personal concept someone can have of "God" and the abstract, universal concept. The one is called "Adonai", the other is the unspeakable "IHVH". to some Adonai is male, to others female.

Quotecherrypicking to the extent that you might as well be creating your own "abstract God principle

Yes, everybody necessarily has hir own concept of God, which is limited by that person's predispositions. And yes, the abstract principle is also a man made concept. A word.

For me the basic text is "God created mankind in their image - male and female".  Except that I would interpret it to include intersex and all the other variants.

Faith is a very personal issue and I had lost mine while I was living a lie but regained it when I started living authentically as myself.

I asked the minister of the church I now belong to if she would rebaptise me as I'm a different person with a different name.  She said our denomination doesn't do rebaptism, then she found a service for "renewal of vows" and used that.  It was rebaptism in all but name.

@Mary XYX

That piece could also be read as each human, or some kind of proto-human containing both male and female elements. "Mankind" wouldn't be the proper translation (http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-27.htm) of "Ha'adam" either. This reading especially makes sense, if you realize that a little further on in Genesis, that female element (his rib) is taken out of Adam.

From http://traditionarchive.org/news/originals/Volume%2027/No.%201/The%20Man-Woman.pdf

"The key to decoding this mystery is to be found in Rashi, the Biblical commentator par excellence, who generally anchors the Biblical text in its plain meaning. Rashi explains: (tThey were created shenai partzufim (of two faces, androgynous) in the original creation; and only later did God divide them." In other words, ha-adam, the first human being is a unique creation; both male and female, simultaneously."

My personal interpretation is that God created a sentient, moral and spiritual being or beings.  That is the important part.  As God is not corporeal, any details of our bodies are not in the Image.  This contradicts the view many people have that God is a white man.  There are many physical forms, surely they are all valid?

I entirely agree with that

If you look at Hindu gods some are male and female together.

catheyrains has a great view "Supergender"

Male, Female, Neither....It's like Creator, Teacher....

I have not looked up the references but I have had way more KJV, NKJV, NIV ....tossed my way than I care to say but one thing was I do know how to find the Greek, Hebrew words and were they are so I think I'll go on a little word hunt I have to find my very large dusty tomes ...if I find some of them I'll put them up.

Quote from: Shana-chan on July 06, 2015, 06:19:01 PM
Ok, I am just throwing this out there, that article is claiming in the bible (Which one, King James, other?) that God is referred to as a woman at least 13 times. Yet, doesn't bother to list the places in said bible where it says this? It is true neutral (we, they etc.) are used but still, it doesn't list it in the article which is very odd.

Most of the words used for God (El, Elohim, Adon, Adonai, Theos, Kurios, etc...) were masculine. The exception is Spirit which is feminine in Hebrew (Ruach) and neuter in Greek (Pneumatos). I wouldn't place too much value into a noun being feminine or neuter as the gendering of words sometimes makes no sense. For example, Mastos (breast) is masculine in Greek.

On the other hand, Wisdom is spoken of a lot in the Old Testament, especially in the apocryphal books and is distinctly feminine.  I don't remember the Hebrew word  but in Greek it is Sophia and is prominently personified female in all the varieties of ancient gnostic texts. 

However, it is also important to remember that these were not believed to be fact but rather mythologies that communicated spiritual realities to matter bound humans. 

The Good God who is the origin of all light (metaphorically) is all encompassing.  Male and Female, Mother and Father, without gender but encompassing all genders, pure Spirit.

Also, so as not to confuse the issue, the Good God spoken of in these mythologies is not El, Elohim, El Shaddai [sp], YHWY etc., but is something much greater.


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According to the book of John, God is a spirit. So it would be a little naive of us to try to fit Him in a societal gender role. x

Well, there's this: Jesus himself weighs in. (http://nonadventures.com/2015/10/24/the-blast-supper/)  Maybe "Jesus himself" is overselling it a little.  Oh well.  It sounds more fun that way.

Quote from: sparrow on October 25, 2015, 11:46:05 AM
Well, there's this: Jesus himself weighs in. (http://nonadventures.com/2015/10/24/the-blast-supper/)  Maybe "Jesus himself" is overselling it a little.  Oh well.  It sounds more fun that way.

makes sense

Quote from: clarabrown on October 23, 2015, 09:59:59 AM
According to the book of John, God is a spirit. So it would be a little naive of us to try to fit Him in a societal gender role. x

Did you mean to say her?

There are lots of scriptures in which he refers to himself as the Lord, and many others where Jesus refers to him as Father.  I don't know if God should be addressed in a neuter gender fashion or as the pronouns that are used in most of bibles. I am not learned in greek, hebrew or latin enough to tell if this is a translation thing or in the original books God was given male pronouns as well.

Maybe we should ask God which pronouns should we use? haha. x

Jesus referred to God as "Abba" which means father in the specific male sense.


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Quote from: clarabrown on October 25, 2015, 02:32:03 PM
There are lots of scriptures in which he refers to himself as the Lord, and many others where Jesus refers to him as Father.  I don't know if God should be addressed in a neuter gender fashion or as the pronouns that are used in most of bibles. I am not learned in greek, hebrew or latin enough to tell if this is a translation thing or in the original books God was given male pronouns as well.

Maybe we should ask God which pronouns should we use? haha. x

We use male pronouns because men wrote the bible.  God isn't male.  Now it is tradition to default to the masculine, but we don't have to.  God is whatever gender we want to call her.

Quote from: Deborah on October 25, 2015, 02:39:00 PM
Jesus referred to God as "Abba" which means father in the specific male sense.


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That was simply to get though to a very misogynistic culture.  God is also mother. 

Quote from: Oliviah on October 25, 2015, 03:09:41 PM
That was simply to get though to a very misogynistic culture.  God is also mother.

Yes, I know the argument but that is just supposition.

Anyway, to me its just academic.  My christian faith was destroyed and I have moved on to something I can believe in.  And that includes the concept of a feminine divine amongst other things.that were suppressed as heresy by the Church many times in the past two millenia.


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Interesting read.

I had a thought last night.  Jesus is transgender.  He was born of a virgin with no human father involved.  There can therefore be no Y chromosome.  He was born XX. 

So which is it conservative evangelicals?  Was Jesus XX or did Joseph supply a Y chromosome?


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