Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi friends.

Can someone give me the lowdown on how guys acknowledge each other with the "head nod?" Like, passing someone in a hallway of a building? On the street? What is the head nod all about, what does it look like, and is there eye contact and anything verbal? Do you do it in the rest room? Or just ignore the other guys? Please help me learn the secrets of the head nod.

I don't know what is too much of a greeting and what is too little. Dang female socialization!

Thanks!

Its just something that happens... there you are, minding your own bussines, then, you loke at someone and nod. Why? Well, Why not?! lol

lol, that is the male form of hello, how are doing today, you look smashing in that flannel the color really accents your eyes. and from my experience is best only replied to with a returning nod. on a special passing one may be required to puff up a bit as the nod begins, not sure but this may indicate dominance. good luck with all that boy stuff I was really not so good at it. so do not take my reply as anything more than light humor

Fact is it's just an acknowledgment. Nothing more and nothing less. The fact that it's occurring shows that he is treating you like any other guy including himself. A head nod looks like any other head. It's not something I recall generally happening in the restroom. My recommendation would be to nod back if they nod to you. It's nothing special though. Head goes down and then goes up a moment later. Jerri might be right that dominance maybe part of why they not to you. As she stated, I was never good at the guy stuff either so take it for what it's worth. I hope this helps. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Clever on July 07, 2015, 09:15:58 AM
Hi friends.

Can someone give me the lowdown on how guys acknowledge each other with the "head nod?" Like, passing someone in a hallway of a building? On the street? What is the head nod all about, what does it look like, and is there eye contact and anything verbal? Do you do it in the rest room? Or just ignore the other guys? Please help me learn the secrets of the head nod.

I don't know what is too much of a greeting and what is too little. Dang female socialization!

Thanks!

If you're getting the nod, you're in the "Men's Club." Just nod back, it's just a general acknowledgement that you're both men and that he respects you, on some level, as his peer in gender. I've never nodded in the restroom or been nodded at, or I might think a guy was trying to hook up with me (depending on the place)  :laugh:. Men's restroom culture is pretty straightforward, don't look at anyone but yourself, minimal eye contact/talking; get in, get out. So yeah, unless someone gave you a nod, I wouldn't nod in the restroom. But other places are pretty much fair game.

EDIT: About verbal communication alongside the nod, I haven't actually done it to a stranger, but a "Hey, man," or something easy to utter while passing by would be fine. It's especially acceptable if you know the guy.

Thanks a lot for your replies, friends! I appreciate it  :)

Headnods for when you're too lazy to say something or just want to say hi to a guy on the streets.
like "nod" yeah we both live in the same part of town.
An affirmative and understanding aswell parts social action, I suppose.

Men tend to grunt and read each others body language like that  ::)

What andrew said!

Quote from: Jerri on July 07, 2015, 10:06:18 AM
you look smashing in that flannel the color really accents your eyes.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fdragonball%2Fimages%2F3%2F39%2FNot-bad-obama.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120404130311&hash=027605ea8251dab722e1bc78158bb12e5c0de999)
Several smaller nods with shaped mouth HMMMM NOT BAD also  :laugh: :laugh:

I don't tend to do that inside buildings unless i'm busy and have a lot of work and see another person with also a lot of work?
Depends what you do in life I suppose.

I always felt the traditional head nod was sort of like a "Hello, Pardner."  I never felt like that was my style, having grown up as a male in the inner city.  I adopted the 'sup nod'.  It is an up-down nod as if to say: "'sup?" or "Wassup?"  Example animated gif (http://conflag.com/images/dave-grohl-sup.gif).
I have to stop myself from doing it by rote sometimes now, since it is not necessarily a female greeting. lol

pretty much what Andrew said.  Head nods are a short one pump either up and back to neutral or down and back. It is literally "hey you exist" guys tend not to look at each other any longer than to acknowledge each others presence and judge whatever you can with a brief glance (threat potential, social class, age, etc) Mind you this is with strangers rules are a bit different with friends, bros, etc. .In the bathroom its pretty quiet except for grunts of effort, sighs, etc. or that jacka....err jerk on the phone.

The male head nod means many things depending on the situation, it's best summed up with the cover all phrase "I see you, I accept you", amongst friends it better translated as "howya doin?"
If two male strangers make eye contact it's a way of diverting the rare response of "whatchu looking at?"

If you recieve a head nod whilst in the toilets then it's a way of avoiding verbal communication.
As a general rule, whilst in toilets keep eye contact to a minimum & avoid conversations whilst doing your stuff in a cubicle. If you're at the urinals & a friend speaks to you then keep eyes forward for the majority of the time, brief glances as speaking are acceptable but try to avoid prolonged eye contact as the other person may start to feel uncomfortable.
If you keep this in mind it'll keep you safe until you pick up the subtle unspoken rules for toilets.

Recently I did it towards a young craftsman at my place of work whom i had never seen before.
Immediately it felt extremely awkward to me and I thought "I must learn not to do this any more".
But now when I think about why I did it, I would say it was to make him feel welcome and accepted. Had it been a girl, I would just have smiled to express the same.

I nod at people all the time. It works faster than my brain and throat trying to form audible words. It tends to work great for strangers as voice gives away gender to those pre-T.

Thank you for starting this thread, it is very helpful for me.  I never realized that the nod had a variety of meanings attached to it.

Alexander

I think minorqback does a good job explaining it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7i9TwNS5OI

downward nod - acknowledgement
upward nod - greeting

where i work the customers are mainly male and my department is mainly men. when i'm walking by people i don't talk to often but i work with, it's usually a downward nod as to acknowledge them. when i'm working with people i talk to often, we all do the upward nod. i also do the upward nod when a male customer makes eye contact with me that needs my help but downward nod to acknowledge them still even if they don't need my help. customers also do the upward nod to me to greet me if they need my help without having to verbally say so.

I do it all the time with me and my boys, especially if I was in a hallway and I was trying to get to class mainly the upward nod it means wassup or waz good its another way to great sometimes, sometimes we will just do a head nod and sometimes we will do a head nod while giving eachother dap, there is only eye contact for like a second or 2, with the upward head nod, you just jerk your head upward in a quick motion, the other one is a downward motion nod that older people tend to do, its just to acknowlage that you are there

It's an instinctive greeting for me and I like how short and non-verbal it is while simultaneously communicating respect and acknowledgment. I just quickly lift my chin up while making eye contact and move on. I agree with the poster who mentioned it as the male version of a woman's smile -- it's just a way to make a passing stranger feel comfortable and at ease.

The guys in Chicago seem to headnod at everybody indiscriminately, because I definitely don't look like a member of the boys' club.

My return nod is kind of flimsy, though, so I just smile back. Even though I'd like to master the nod. I like that quick, non-verbal communication, and I hate fake smiling.

Wish I had more advice to give. I suppose I have a thing or two to learn from this thread.

There's really nothing mysterious or complicated about it. It just means "Hey, I saw you and am acknowledging you." That's about all there is to it.

Okay, just so I understand: any time I catch the eye of another dude I can employ this nod?

Is just averting your eyes to avoid contact all together ever okay? Or is that rude?

Smiling is just seen as weird, right?

I know this is elementary to lots of you guys, but I've never had a lot of guy friends and I've never been tomboyish, so this is all brand new to me.

You could try to nod first, but I truly recommend you let them go first until you have a better feel for it. Secondly, yes smiling would be weird. It's generally just not done. Hugs
mariah

Quote from: Clever on July 08, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
Okay, just so I understand: any time I catch the eye of another dude I can employ this nod?

Is just averting your eyes to avoid contact all together ever okay? Or is that rude?

Smiling is just seen as weird, right?

I know this is elementary to lots of you guys, but I've never had a lot of guy friends and I've never been tomboyish, so this is all brand new to me.

Yeah smiling can be a bad thing, a smirk is not too bad though. I've always used the head nod for other blokes. Ever since I was small, it's just easier and quicker xD

I also auto go for a proper handshake, or a warriors arm grab, which throws people, as I can't pass very well, and they never expect it from someone they perceive to be female.

'Sup!

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

I smile at women I know, sometimes smile more guardedly at women I don't know (in situations requiring some kind of acknowledgment), and nod at guys. Sometimes I do the nod-and-not-quite-a-smile for guys. I just do it without thinking, so I can't describe it. JUST smiling at a guy strikes me as, well, weird, so I'd advise against it unless you know him pretty well.

In my neck of the woods, I don't tend to see the down-and-then-up nod nearly as much as the up-and-then-down nod (and I don't do it myself).

Quote from: Arch on July 08, 2015, 04:13:21 PM
I smile at women I know, sometimes smile more guardedly at women I don't know (in situations requiring some kind of acknowledgment), and nod at guys. Sometimes I do the nod-and-not-quite-a-smile for guys. I just do it without thinking, so I can't describe it. JUST smiling at a guy strikes me as, well, weird, so I'd advise against it unless you know him pretty well.

In my neck of the woods, I don't tend to see the down-and-then-up nod nearly as much as the up-and-then-down nod (and I don't do it myself).

That is my question.  Is it still ok to smile at women, or is that creepy now that I am 100% passing?  I'm thinking that if I smiled at women before and passed 85% of the time and they didn't seem to think I was creepy it isn't creepy?

I have always done the head nod with guys.  It is the "drop down" head nod where I am.

I sort of wonder about middle aged guys who still do this. 

*nod* 'Sup, brah!  *fistbump*  Dude, cruise by with some brewhas later and we'll totally rage! 

Seriously, my old bandmates had a housemate once who had a three word vocabulary: "Dude", "F***", and "Bro".  We wrote a punk song about him that had three whole lyrics.  Guess what they were... (OK, there was a bridge part where we yelled "Dude, WHO DRANK MY F****** JAGER?")

Is there an age limit for dudebrodom?  Anyway, I'm sure it's fine to a point, but I think that after a certain age it doesn't exactly pass the straight-face test.

'Sup. (LOL)

It would come off creepy, but if they smile at you then it's okay. I know if I guy smiled at me I probably would be creeped out by it, but it will depend on the guy who is doing it too. I would use the smile with caution if your going to use it. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Bimmer Guy on July 08, 2015, 04:55:29 PM
That is my question.  Is it still ok to smile at women, or is that creepy now that I am 100% passing?  I'm thinking that if I smiled at women before and passed 85% of the time and they didn't seem to think I was creepy it isn't creepy?

I have always done the head nod with guys.  It is the "drop down" head nod where I am.

Oh my - are you sure you aren't making all this up folks? ??? Nobody ever told me the head nod was reserved for guys :o I really do break all the rules then... as do most folks I know in the UK!!! :P

Actually I don't believe it is a guy thing in the UK at all because here plenty of the type of powerful women that I mix with do it to each other... I do pretty much mix solely with Alpha career women, so maybe thats a difference, but I always just do whatever seems to be expected, and sometimes thats a nod, sometimes its a smile, and sometimes its a hello.

So yeah - the complexities of head nods that I never appreciated!

Quote from: Jill F on July 08, 2015, 04:57:05 PM
I sort of wonder about middle aged guys who still do this. 

*nod* 'Sup, brah!  *fistbump*  Dude, cruise by with some brewhas later and we'll totally rage! 

Seriously, my old bandmates had a housemate once who had a three word vocabulary: "Dude", "F***", and "Bro".  We wrote a punk song about him that had three whole lyrics.  Guess what they were... (OK, there was a bridge part where we yelled "Dude, WHO DRANK MY F****** JAGER?")

Is there an age limit for dudebrodom?  Anyway, I'm sure it's fine to a point, but I think that after a certain age it doesn't exactly pass the straight-face test.

'Sup. (LOL)

I don't think there's an age limit to be a dudebro, then again I'm mostly gymbro so I could be wrong...

And definitely middle aged.

Wow, never even thought about this headnod stuff until I'd transitioned...guys acknowledge each other as they walk by with it, but guys don't head nod (up, then down) to women, and women do NOT head nod to men.

When acknowledging a woman, men will tip their head (down, then up; simulates tipping a hat) and then a greeting appropriate to his intentions..."Good morning!" is just a greeting, "Hey." is making a quick yet subtle pass.

But I've found that a woman who nods to a man is doing the equivalent of saying "Hey GI, ten dolla'! Ten dolla'!!" Women are supposed to pretend they don't notice men.

I think, anyway. Humans in general are difficult to decipher.

Quote from: Call me Ray on July 08, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
I don't think there's an age limit to be a dudebro, then again I'm mostly gymbro so I could be wrong...

And definitely middle aged.

When I'm 100, I"m gonna be shuffling down the nursing home corridors, saying loudly, "DUDE!! 'SUP!! Got any brewskis?!"

;D

Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 08, 2015, 07:54:19 PM
When I'm 100, I"m gonna be shuffling down the nursing home corridors, saying loudly, "DUDE!! 'SUP!! Got any brewskis?!"

;D

And if I see you I'll nod and give you a fist bump and a beer

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

This has clued me into a behavior I'll need to kill. It's standard guy greeting in informal meeting. Passing on the sidewalk in an apartment complex. Quick nod and mumbled "sup". I have never done it to woman. Well maybe the downward, fake hat tip thing, but I digress. If you get it then you pass enough to at least be recognized as any other male.



Ella

I always saw the head nod as an occasional thing to be used when you find yourself in an uncomfortable proximity to another guy. It is simply a way to acknowledge the guy and to show you aren't a threat.

It's one of the guy behaviors i've had to unlearn.

Good advice here on guy bathroom etiquette too.

saying "hey" depends on the tone of voice. I use it quite a bit but its in a neutral monotone or down turn at the end. Its pretty much just hi only I cant say hi without at least a touch of enthusiasm showing in my voice so I usually dont say hi. (I'm still in "boy mode" except for my nail polish... and my pants... and my hair... and my mascara)

Failing to nod back isn't very rude, but it kinda depends on facial expression.  Scowling in response to a nod is either a warning sign, or a dismissal (you aren't cool enough to nod at me).  Failing to respond in the bathroom is always acceptable: guys don't make eye contact in the bathroom.  If a guy mistakenly believes that he's made eye contact with you in the bathroom and nods, you're free to ignore his tenuous grasp on reality... as long as you weren't looking around like a noob and can be perfectly nonchalant in your snub.

Also... please consider avoiding the douchebro culture.  You don't have to be that way to be a man.  They're overcompensating.

Smiling at girls: I always have.  Don't leer or grin, just give a small friendly smile.  At rest, my face is a scowl... so if I don't smile at people, they think I'm ready to kill them.  Continuing  to look and smile gets threatening very fast, though, unless she smiles back.

Quote from: sparrow on July 09, 2015, 10:32:08 AM

Also... please consider avoiding the douchebro culture.  You don't have to be that way to be a man.  They're overcompensating.

Can you explain what this culture is? Is greeting other guys a nod a part of it? I'm just trying to be polite and/or not beat up when I interact in public places. Thank you for your help.

I've only ever received head nods from friends and acquaintances, both male and female.  My ex, a fluent ASL signer, told me a few times that a head nod is a silent greeting between ASL signers, regardless of ability or disability.  She said bikers also do this.  This leads me to believe that the head nod is usually a silent greeting between people who either know each other already or it's obvious they share a common bond.

Still, the only time I've ever gotten the head nod is from my own mates.  Then it's *nod back*  "'Sup [insert name or a masculine term of endearment here]."  "'Sup [ditto]."  *conversation occurs*

As far as strange women...I think a smile accompanied by a slight nod is acceptable.  Whether she returns the gesture in any way or speaks to you is up to her.  If you're really brave you could throw in a friendly "Hello!" or "Hi!" and see what happens.

Wow, Thank you for your question. I've just realized I have been doing head nods for years without thinking about it! Oh no!

To help you, it's like what a lot of others have said, I do agree that a single (or maybe rarely double) up-to-down nod is one of agreement or acknowledgement of a proposed course of action (like in a meeting or something).

Starting from down, then up, once, is used in lieu of 'hello'. I've been thinking about this, and even if you don't verbalize " 'S up", the way it is annunciated seems to naturally bring your head up, from the formations of the 'S', and up a bit more when you say the 'up' part.

This head nod is best used in those situations with strangers or acquaintances when neither of you knows who should or will go first. Approaching from opposite directions in a hallway is a perfect example. You almost want to communicate that you are a guy going about your business, you are busy in your own thought process, but you are showing respect by breaking out of this momentarily to acknowledge the other guy, a sign of mutual respect.

Never smile at a guy, unless he is gay, and you use the smile to communicate friendship, and to show you to others that you are secure in your masculinity. This says, 'this guy is my friend, and I don't give a f$&;: what you think or infer from my smile'

Whether you are interested in them or not, always smile briefly at women, but not creepily.

I have spent enough time in the United Kingdom to know that the nod doesn't work at all in the same way it does in the States.

Gosh, I had no idea there was so much to this.....

Quote from: Clever on July 09, 2015, 11:50:12 AM
Can you explain what this culture is? Is greeting other guys a nod a part of it? I'm just trying to be polite and/or not beat up when I interact in public places. Thank you for your help.

First off, if you're passing, you won't get beaten up for nodding or failing to nod.  If you don't pass, I imagine most people will think you're a butch lesbian or a tomboy, unless they think you don't belong in their bathroom (they won't be looking at you that closely).

Maybe if you nod at a dude in a bathroom and he gives you a ->-bleeped-<-ty look and you go up to him like a fanboy or something, then there might be some aggression (starting with posturing that you can probably back down from)... but fights and beatings just aren't common between strangers.  If they were, you'd see them happening in the streets on a regular basis.  There might be places where fights are more common in bars... I don't drink and I live in a large city.  Have you seen guys walking around sporting black eyes much?  Do you commonly hear guys bragging about fights?  Most guys brag about fights that they've never been in.  Cut whatever you've heard in half.

When I say "douchebro culture," I basically mean frat boys.  It's a larger group than just frat boys (and once-frat boys).  It includes pickup artists, there's a large amount of misogyny and homophobia, a strong focus on using women, drinking to blackout, fanatical fanboyism surrounding one's sports team, etc.  This cluster of behaviors and attitudes are what comes to mind when I hear guys calling eachother "dude" and "bro" three times per four-word sentence.  These are the guys who make me disgusted with men, and make me *so* happy to be leaving their gender behind.  No offense. 

Nodding is not a part of that culture.  I nod to crusty old dudes all the way down to middle school kids, from all walks of life.  Even when there's a large chance that they're recent immigrants or tourists.

Quote from: orangeskipper on July 09, 2015, 09:30:55 PM
Gosh, I had no idea there was so much to this.....

I know, right?  My first thought when I saw the title was "pfft., what mystery?"  I could write pages on this.  And since it's an aspect of culture that is taught implicitly and never spoken about, my pages would probably be quite different from somebody else's.

It's kinda funny this topic should come up  :)  I know that the cowboy nod is generally considered predominantly a guy thing, but I've noticed over the years that quite a few women have been adopting it and that tipping your hat a bit and saying howdy is somewhat becoming a thing as well  8)  It's a polite gesture so it doesn't bother me none, but I'll have to admit to getting a bit of a chuckle now and then

Clever is awesome for getting us sharing on this topic. We should break out a "Two-way Traffic" thread, where we can help each other out with these nuanced questions we've always wanted to ask, but never had the guts to.

VM, perhaps this is pure midwestern girl queer thought, but if a well-educated, cute cowgirl who rocks the denim mini and huge clunky boots were to tip her hat at me, well that would be just about the end for me. There's no heart that wouldn't melt at that.

Clever, happy to help, but keep in mind that we all have very different experiences. It seems to me, however, that you are getting a good feel for what could work for you, if you pick out the points that resonate with you. The key to not looking like a dork is to be natural, and use your non-verbal communications to rock what represents your personality.

Considering all the nodding complexities, the most important thing, in my opinion, is to confidently express in little ways, every day, what honor and respect mean to you. Should you succeed in this, nobody will question you as a man of integrity.

I agree with a previous post that fights are really rare. In fact, the nod dispatches almost all possibilities of conflict. Unless you ignore somebody asking you a direct question, the head nod can get you through a lot of social awkwardness.

Now, if only somebody could help me to figure out the lifelong dilema of how to prevent nylons from rolling at the waist, and leading to day-long extreme discomfort, all would be well in the world.

I actually got a head nod from a stranger today and thought of this thread.  I was leaving a job site and a chap in a SUV drove close by.  We made eye contact and both of us, at the same time, inclined our heads ever-so-slightly.  Eye contact was broken and we went about our business.

It just seemed like a friendly gesture.  Just a sort of "I am acknowledging your presence as a human being who is walking to his car.  Be well, my friend."