Susan's Place Transgender Resources

hi. im new/this is my first post here. i see there is a thread where everyone can post their pics and ask for feedback on whether or not they pass. i was going to post in there but i realized, i already know that i dont pass. i guess i want to know if anyone has any suggestions for me on how to pass better? im currently homeless so its kind of hard to invest a lot of time into my appearance every day, but for the sake of my own safety i feel like i need to pass as well as i can. please let me know if you have any ideas, thanks !

here are some pictures of me

(https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/11110453_10206173981484735_2624012692956239770_o.jpg)

(https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/11728850_10206264442906214_4467253693260356947_o.jpg)

Hi gaygirl  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

Um, you look like a girl so I hope that's what you're going for, I'm not sure what else to say

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Hugs

V M

Warm welcome to Susan's Gaygirl

You look gorgeous, are you the singer in the band (presuming so)... what sort of genre?

Anyways welcome and look forward to seeing you about the forum's

L Katy  :-*

Hi Gaygirl, welcome to Susan's. I would say you look like a girl to me. I look forward to seeing you around the forums. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

aw wow thanks everyone ! yea i play guitar and sing in a band, we're kinda loud and melodic and sometimes yelly/screamy, idk if it anyone here likes that sort of thing

I am OK with most genres...

Katy xx

you look amazing, if you have been running into passing problems its not visual. ::hugs::

 :embarrassed:

Quote from: Valwen on July 15, 2015, 02:24:59 AM
you look amazing, if you have been running into passing problems its not visual. ::hugs::

thanks ! i feel as though my voice sounds pretty good, usually if anyone misgenders me theyll correct themselves rwhen they hear my voice

Passing can be far more complicated than what you can see in an image (you look great). On the bright side if there is something that's giving you away like how you move or talk you can certainly sort that out.

p.s I like your telecaster

Voice and mannerisms.

Looks are entirely secondary.

i wish there were a way to show you all what my voice sounds like? i dont think its a problem though

maybe mannerisms? but i really do think its my appearance. i work a low wage job and my uniform is just this ill-fitting men's t-shirt, and about half of the ppl i worked with were able to piece together that im trans (some didnt know until i told them). the people who could tell all said the same thing: "i could tell because of your frame, its bigger than most girls, also youre pretty tall". im 5'10" btw

i DO live in the bay area though. i recognize that a lot of people here are familiar with what trans ppl look like, so its easier to be identified as trans here even if you would pass as cis well in other places

Quote from: gaygirl420 on July 15, 2015, 09:53:56 AM
i wish there were a way to show you all what my voice sounds like? i dont think its a problem though

Try Vocaroo. You can upload a sound recording and put a link here.

Quotemaybe mannerisms? but i really do think its my appearance. i work a low wage job and my uniform is just this ill-fitting men's t-shirt, and about half of the ppl i worked with were able to piece together that im trans (some didnt know until i told them). the people who could tell all said the same thing: "i could tell because of your frame, its bigger than most girls, also youre pretty tall". im 5'10" btw

i DO live in the bay area though. i recognize that a lot of people here are familiar with what trans ppl look like, so its easier to be identified as trans here even if you would pass as cis well in other places

Yeah it could be general dimensions. What you wear makes a difference. Some dresses make my shoulders look god awfully big and some make me look proportionate. I stopped wearing T shirts mostly except when doing yard work and stuff at home. I can't pull that off yet. HRT has to shrink me some more.

Re geography, I work in New York and I'm in the city every weekday. I walk in the village and chelsea a lot, basically the gayest part of the east coast I think. :) I don't get misgendered at all now. I do dress a lot differently, mostly skirts and dresses that compensate for my relative lack of hips. People haven't really asked me if I'm trans, I mean my immediate colleagues know but nobody else does. The lunch cafe staff don't know I think, at least they haven't told me. Maybe they're being nice or I'm passing. Who knows, who cares. Nobody and I mean nobody brings up the topic of trans unless I do and I never do with strangers. We have interns here now too and they only know me as a woman, and nobody has asked me about being trans. Maybe they picked it up, maybe they didn't. Who knows? I don't care but I'm not going to broadcast it.

I'll be honest as well, in that your standing up shot gives a clue. Your shoulder and arms, while it may not outright out you, can give people a clue. Then again if I didn't know, and solely judging by those pictures I wouldn't know either. You're attractive and you pass, at least from those pics.

Quote from: iKate on July 15, 2015, 10:04:21 AM
I'll be honest as well, in that your standing up shot gives a clue. Your shoulder and arms, while it may not outright out you, can give people a clue. Then again if I didn't know, and solely judging by those pictures I wouldn't know either. You're attractive and you pass, at least from those pics.

That's all I could say too, you have nice biceps, lol.  Not exactly out of line for a girl, especially one that probably hefts around her own sound equipment, but still.  Muscles take a really long time to slim down from what I hear.

Other than that, looking good to me!  I'd like to see a pic with your glasses on.  They can have a pretty big impact on feminizing a face.  I'm ready to ditch my male frames and pickup some female frames in a month or two.

I think you pass very well in those picturEs. It's always the small things too, like the cute star necklace and the tank top are very casually feminine. You have a sweet delicate  smile that probably helps too. Just keep up what you're doing!

Quote from: iKate on July 15, 2015, 09:57:38 AM
Try Vocaroo. You can upload a sound recording and put a link here.

ok, so last time i posted a link a moderator removed it, maybe that wont happen again

this is me reading 'rainbow passage', inspired by those yeson voice center videos. i recorded it like 2 months ago so my voice is probably slightly different now

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1C3vjXMfoWh

Quote from: gaygirl420 on July 15, 2015, 12:27:49 PM
ok, so last time i posted a link a moderator removed it, maybe that wont happen again

this is me reading 'rainbow passage', inspired by those yeson voice center videos. i recorded it like 2 months ago so my voice is probably slightly different now

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1C3vjXMfoWh

Your voice sounds feminine. I wouldn't guess "trans" at all.

aw thanks !!

jw, would it be weird to make a thread about if my singing voice passes where i link to my band? its something id rly like feedback on since ive put a lot of work into it

Quote from: Tristan on July 15, 2015, 10:15:45 AM
Other than that, looking good to me!  I'd like to see a pic with your glasses on.  They can have a pretty big impact on feminizing a face.  I'm ready to ditch my male frames and pickup some female frames in a month or two.

Yep. I have big ugly square man glasses. I am dumping them next month when my insurance can buy me a new pair.

Quote from: gaygirl420 on July 15, 2015, 01:54:31 PM
aw thanks !!

jw, would it be weird to make a thread about if my singing voice passes where i link to my band? its something id rly like feedback on since ive put a lot of work into it

I'm not sure. I guess if it's your personal site. I would run it by Susan or the forum staff first before you post a link.

I'd love to hear your singing voice either way. You can PM me a link if your not allowed to post it publicly!

Hey gaygirl I think your adorable tbh. If you aren't passing I don't think it has anything to do with your appearance.

Listening to you link I think to u also have a beautiful voice. So I'm not sure how you aren't "passing"

hmm it wont let me send personal messages. anyone know why?

You need to have 15 posts before you can. It won't be long and you will have enough posts to accomplish this. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: gaygirl420 on July 15, 2015, 05:15:21 PM
hmm it wont let me send personal messages. anyone know why?

Actually think your kinda hot..... if the villagers aren't chasing you with pitchforks and torches don't sweat it..... ;D

i think you pass in both of those pictures. i don't think your shoulders and arms are overly masculine either.  Your voice sounds great too.

And 5'10" is on average a bit taller than most women, but it shouldn't be a dead give away. I work with a few women who are taller than 5'10" and no one questions their gender.

You seem quite passable to me.

tank tops or longer looser sleeves can help with the arms the tiny strap on camis tends to emphasize the shoulders but honestly I don't think I would have clocked you. I work in a hospital full of women and there really are all kinds of frames out there.

aw wow yall are making me blush!! i bookmarked this thread so i can read it when i feel dysphoric lol. thanks ladies <3

Quote from: iKate on July 15, 2015, 09:45:09 AM
Voice and mannerisms.

Looks are entirely secondary.

No?

Quote from: Ⓥ on July 17, 2015, 08:30:18 AM
No?

Did you see Caitlyn Jenner's speech for example? The voice totally mismatched her absolutely stunning look. I suppose she has the money to train it or fix it surgically, so she may be doing that soon. And if she's happy with herself with her current voice, that's fine too.

Quote from: iKate on July 17, 2015, 08:32:30 AM
Did you see Caitlyn Jenner's speech for example? The voice totally mismatched her absolutely stunning look. I suppose she has the money to train it or fix it surgically, so she may be doing that soon. And if she's happy with herself with her current voice, that's fine too.

While voice can be an obvious give away, like in Caitlyn's case. It is no where near the first thing we gender people by. We actively gender people the first minute we see them. Visuals are the most important thing to get gendered correctly. If people aren't sure then they will listen to ur voice to try to gender you.

voice is v important. ive had people misgender me (hello sir) and then hear me speak and apologize

Quote from: amber roskamp on July 17, 2015, 09:07:20 AM
While voice can be an obvious give away, like in Caitlyn's case. It is no where near the first thing we gender people by. We actively gender people the first minute we see them. Visuals are the most important thing to get gendered correctly. If people aren't sure then they will listen to ur voice to try to gender you.

I did not say it was the first thing. I did say that it made looks and everything else secondary.

And based on my own personal experience and observation it is absolutely true. I've had people use every feminine pronoun with me until I talked, then it was, "oh, sir."

I stress this because too many of us neglect our voices. We try our best to look absolutely feminine but when we open our mouths it all falls apart then we run crying wondering why we got clocked.

Surgery is expensive. I get it. But voice training on YouTube is FREE. FYFV by Andrea James is excellent and gave me a lot to work with. And even if you don't pass 100% visually, the voice can help overcome that.

I'm not denying that it is important if ur worried about passing in every situation. I just disagree with what u said about it and mannerisms being 90% of passing. That's total bull. We don't even interact with most of the people we see. Speaking well isn't gonna stop random people from staring at u. I really don't care about how well I pass with people I know to an extent if I meet someone and we talk I will literally tell them I'm trans with in the first 15 minutes.. I surround myself with people who are affirming of my identity so I can trust most people I associate with.

It's to the random strangers in the street that I worry about. I don't talk to them. So voice is secondary to how well I pass, in those situations, compared to my whole physical appearance and movements.

If you don't interact with people, how can you tell they misgender or clock you? People stare all the time. People stare at me, people stare at my mom, my sister in law, my wife. People just stare. Especially if you wear bright colors like red, salmon or pink.

The random person on the street doesn't bother me as much as the retail store clerk or restaurant employee who will blurt out a "sir." There are even people I know who have gotten clocked and blatantly laughed at, and it was triggered by voice.

The thing is that you cannot know what J. random street person is thinking. And in most cases unless you have obviously strong masculine features the most they will be is unsure of your gender. They will have doubt in their mind but the doubt is double edged - they aren't sure if you're a woman, but they aren't sure if you're a man either. When you have to talk it will swing the needle in whichever direction and if you do it right it will be in the female direction.

That is why I fully stand by my statement. Voice and mannerisms are key. Looks are only secondary.

However, all of these things make up a complete picture.

As for telling people, I don't. Not even people I work with beyond those who knew when I went full time, or those who don't know and mistakenly called me by my old name. But new people I don't tell. Maybe they figure it out themselves, maybe they don't. It's really nobody's business. I am not an activist and my mission is simply to live my life.

I feel like it varies from person to person based on their starting point. It's literally impossible for many of us to pass perfectly, and it is primarily because of our bone structure. I hate to say it but it's true. Thus isn't because of voice and mannerisms this is because of development of the skeletal structure.

Also other visual cues like if u have a obvious five o'clock shadow then it doesn't matter about the other ->-bleeped-<-. If ur presentation skills suck then you aren't gonna have an easy time passing. Like if you don't know how to hide masculine body features, and how to highlight feminine ones. Or if your make-up looks like a mess. Or if you don't tuck. Mannerisms aren't that important. There are tons of butch women and tomboys that are passing as cis women perfectly. Including some trans women. Just do u.

A voice can be a dead give away. Equal too a shadow. but if you are just ok voice wise they will focus on your appearance. You don't need to be.perfect. there are girls with fairly deep voices.

You look great. Keep rocking! I play as well. I love playing music. Won't ever stop playing the blues. Never, never never. I'm a southern girl stuck in the Midwest so I keep my guitar and harps close by...

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You already look passable girl! Very cute! BTW awesome Legend of Zelda earrings !!

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