Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Recently we're hearing a wave of murders of transsexuals in USA. I guess these women were pre-ops or non-ops.

I'm just wondering if those same homophobics/transphobics if confronted post-ops would equally murder them?

I've NEVER heard a single post-op murdered for not revealing her past and being discovered. Do you know any story like this? Just curious. So should we post-ops reveal too always what we are and our past to men before sexual intercourse?

I'm the type who doesn't reveal if I'm going just for 1-night stand but if entering in a serious relationship I always try to thrash out asap. Is what I am doing wrong? What's your opinion?

Many members here remind the stealth branch of the community repetitively we need to tell the truth for safety reasons but for many of us it's not as easy for many other reasons. Our dysphoria come in different shades and tones. Those who do not feel like revealing is cos our dysphoria is so extreme to the point we don't even identify ourselves as transsexuals (though it's what we are technically) but as a genetic woman. I honestly don't like associating myself with the LGBT community on the 'surface' due to fear and being outed. But deep down in myself I know I am one of you, otherwise I wouldn't be in this forum and I always defend the LGBT whenever they are attacked online on Youtube or wherever.

We avoid saying to avoid problems as mockery, humiliation & rejection and we want to be treated by men 100% as woman and not as a fetish object. THERE ARE MANY STRAIGHT MEN AND THEY ARE MAJORITY LIKE THIS, YOU CAN BE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL & PASSABLE TRANSSEXUAL IN THE WORLD AND FEMALE ON YOUR PASSPORT BUT AS SOON AS THEY KNOW YOU'RE TRANS, TO THEM YOU'RE LITERALLY A MAN NO MATTER WHAT.

So please try to put yourself in our shoes, it's not like we're deriving pleasure in 'deceiving' people cos we're really not deceiving anyone, we are just who we are, a WOMAN, we never requested 'to be born a man'. I don't even see it deceiving when we identify ourselves as women 100% and worked so hard to synchronize our mind with our body with surgeries. We stealths are trapped on a double-edge sword cos nothing more irritate the core of our soul that people know our past and many times we feel like imploding inside for not telling the truth. We escaped one closet but we don't feel we'll be able to leave this new closet.

Sometimes I just wish I could be an open-trans and walk freely with my heart light and proud but unfortunately my shell is not tough enough to bare the daily prejudice of the society. I've been bullied for so many years when I was not passable that led to a deep trauma in my soul but now I'm feeling so good in this 'inner peace & tranquility' as stealth. I've managed to escape the 'harshness' of this cruel world & society and I'm not ready to get out of my 'cocoon' so soon again, maybe later in my 40's I'll come out to help the younger generation but for now I'm enjoying my youth on this 'invisible mode', so I'll let this for the more courageous girls with thicker carapaces, hats off to you!

You can never pre-judge the behaviour of a hateful/phobic person. While murder is an extreme response it unfortunately cannot be ruled out even if you are post-op.

Sadly all women are at risk from hateful men.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on July 26, 2015, 12:22:09 AM
I'm just wondering if those same homophobics/transphobics if confronted post-ops would equally murder them?

Seriously? Um, yeah! Without a second thought would they beat and kill you. These stealth topics and sex kill me, really. You think you will never get clocked because you are young and hot? I am not going to find out. Everyone I meet has the information so they can decide to pursue a relationship or leave before being deceived.

I'm not really sure there is a wave of trans murders. There's an incredible number of murders every year in the USA, and there's bound to be transgender people getting caught up in that. Perhaps there's more reporting because its a topic of interest these days?

I think that  being attractive and stealth can be a considerable hazard, particularly if a woman does not disclose before the relationship turns intimate. A narrow-minded 'straight' male is likely to be repulsed by his own attraction to "a man" and sees it as a threat to his own sexuality. His anger and revulsion at himself is likely to be turned to violence against the woman for "deceiving" him.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on July 26, 2015, 12:22:09 AM
THERE ARE MANY STRAIGHT MEN AND THEY ARE MAJORITY LIKE THIS, YOU CAN BE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL & PASSABLE TRANSSEXUAL IN THE WORLD AND FEMALE ON YOUR PASSPORT BUT AS SOON AS THEY KNOW YOU'RE TRANS, TO THEM YOU'RE LITERALLY A MAN NO MATTER WHAT.

I think you've pretty much answered your own question here. Imagine you fall for one of these guys. You wait a year to tell him because you want him to be emotionally involved. Or you don't tell him at all and somehow he finds out, maybe he gets suspicious because there are no photos from when you were younger and hires someone to break into your medical records, or someone from a hate group hacks into the hospital and makes all records and names public, or someone from your past wants to hurt you, lots of things can happen.
How is that jerk going to react?

How you view yourself won't matter. Neither will your intentions. The only thing that will matter is how he sees you and what he believes your intentions were. If he thinks you're a f**got who made him gay it's not going to end up nicely.

I don't know for sure if those trans women on the news were all pre-op, but I wouldn't discard that some of them weren't.

Quote from: AnonyMs on July 26, 2015, 02:49:43 AM
I'm not really sure there is a wave of trans murders. There's an incredible number of murders every year in the USA, and there's bound to be transgender people getting caught up in that. Perhaps there's more reporting because its a topic of interest these days?

Thank you for pointing that out.

Here you go and there are links to related stories. The lady in question was post-op. I have come across other stories similar to this. It is not uncommon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10237293

I don't think so. I never heard of a post op getting murdered. It's mostly the preop ones.

My friend is post-op.

I think age has to do with it. I mean a 40 year old transgender female has already lived half her life and may had fun in her teens, twenties etc. We didn't.

Im still 20 and want to have fun, not teaching everybody about trans stuff like most trans girls do. It's just that i can't cope with hate anymore. Not anylonger. Im done.

Like u said maybe when im about forty im going to think about helping others by being raising awareness and being a role model. But not now.

And like i said in the other thread, in most countrys like germany for example no one can out you!! If they should you can sue  them!!!

Quote from: vcjhyt on July 26, 2015, 08:27:59 AM
Here you go and there are links to related stories. The lady in question was post-op. I have come across other stories similar to this. It is not uncommon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10237293

QuoteDuring the trial, jurors were asked to consider whether McMillan killed her after discovering she was transgender, or because she was unable to perform sexually for him because of physical ailments after illnesses including fibromyalgia.

She was also a prostitute. Not that i have anything against that kind of work but being killed is a common risk for prostitutes.

Quote from: beren on July 26, 2015, 08:45:50 AM
I don't think so. I never heard of a post op getting murdered. It's mostly the preop ones.

My friend is post-op.



I think age has to do with it. I mean a 40 year old transgender female has already lived half her life and may had fun in her teens, twenties etc. We didn't.

Im still 20 and want to have fun, not teaching everybody about trans stuff like most trans girls do. It's just that i can't cope with hate anymore. Not anylonger. Im done.

Like u said maybe when im about forty im going to think about helping others by being raising awareness and being a role model. But not now.

And like i said in the other thread, in most countrys like germany for example no one can out you!! If they should you can sue  them!!!

as a 40 year old transgender woman I recall my teens and twenties being filled with drugs, suicide, depression and physical assault.

Quote from: Serenation on July 26, 2015, 08:55:08 AM
as a 40 year old transgender woman I recall my teens and twenties being filled with drugs, suicide, depression and physical assault.

I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to hurt you. But i also said they MAY had fun in their youth.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 26, 2015, 01:24:09 AM
Seriously? Um, yeah! Without a second thought would they beat and kill you. These stealth topics and sex kill me, really. You think you will never get clocked because you are young and hot? I am not going to find out. Everyone I meet has the information so they can decide to pursue a relationship or leave before being deceived.

^^THIS^^

Jessica has it right. Even when I was young and "hot" about 30 years ago, I always made sure I respected any partners enough to trust them and allow them to choose. Sure it meant I was more selective, but i've had my fair share and everyone really meant something. What is more I am still alive - and if you think its bad now you should have transitioned back in the early 80's!

Seriously back then you can take any danger that exists now and multiply it a thousand times. Most of you simply wouldnt have survived more than five minutes back then so... sorry but I think I'm going to have to leave you in peace because I find these recurrent topics just too upsetting to read.

Farewell and good luck all. I hope you are lucky and never learn the hard way.

This subject is near and dear to me... I haven't had SRS yet but I've been with a lot men, usually they know upfront because I really dont have the choice YET.... Ive been in this this situation a few times now... Im at a bar and a straight man comes on to me hot and heavy... The last time this happened was at a biker/stripper bar... The guy was all over me right at the bar making out ect... Pretty scary but I do know people there who had my back including the management and the bouncers... So we get out back and its time to tell him... Well he didn't believe me until I proved it to him... Even then he was visibly shaken and surprised but cool enough about it to the point I wondered if things would keep going anyway... Things stopped there and he just had questions like if my tits were real or implants ect... He had no clue about any of this stuff... It been the same with other men Ive met in person and some even decided to have sex anyway... Not ideal at all and it does suck but its my reality for now... 

One must keep in mind that there are many more pre/non op women out there in sheer numbers for whatever reason than post op women... So of course we will hear more about violence against them vs post op...

I think once post op I will feel and treat this a lot like the OP does.... Maybe Im just lucky I haven't met a real jerk yet but my experience is if you really are a woman and are seen as one men for the most part are just very intrigued by the whole thing...

Now obviously Im not talking about a serious relationship, unfortunately Ive yet to find that... Part of it is because men just cant deal with that... But a lot of it is because I just cant deal with it.... I just cant see being in a serious relationship with a man as a woman with a penis... There's just way to many triggers there for me.... 

Id think after successful SRS and a guy picks me up in person or even online Im not saying anything.... Obviously at my age, 46, true stealth will be nearly impossible without completely burning my past and even then then Im not sure it would be ideal or possible...

Id think though based on my experience with men so far that post op things will at least be easier and certainly better though I imagine rejection due to being TS will be much more painful....

Quote from: beren on July 26, 2015, 08:50:52 AM
She was also a prostitute. Not that i have anything against that kind of work but being killed is a common risk for prostitutes.

Be careful about  disregarding that. It is the reality of some of our members here. And while the risk is already high, is higher if they're also trans, as usually they don't deal with the nicest more understanding type of men, and often they have zero protection from the law or society.

Yes, many years ago I knew a woman who was murdered. She had engaged in prostitution before and after her surgery and I never learned the reason for the murder. It is possible like any CIS prostitute she just picked the wrong John or it could be over money or her sexual status.
You play a dangerous game when you engage in one night stands or you don't disclose in a serious relation ship. I understand people wanting to put their former status behind them but it never will completely happen. It's best to deal with it early so you don't have it clouding what is to come.
My view is you should never intentionally put another person in a position where they could be harmed and not disclosing will do that every time.

Quote from: AnonyMs on July 26, 2015, 02:49:43 AM
I'm not really sure there is a wave of trans murders. There's an incredible number of murders every year in the USA, and there's bound to be transgender people getting caught up in that. Perhaps there's more reporting because its a topic of interest these days?

Transwomen make up a tiny portion of the population, transwomen of colour even less. Proportionally more transwomen of colour are murdered yearly then cis women. So the ten murdered transwomen this year is statistically significant, particularly when you consider nine of them took place from 1 Jan through March. There were 12 murdered all last year, 10 this year with five months left in the year.

I think it's pretty much common sense that you if don't tell someone and they find out there are going to be some guys who will react. Take just everyday life of married couples how many woman are abused and beaten on a daily basis just for not preparing dinner properly How many women are in shelters for abused woman. Tell a guy after a period of time, well I need to tell you I was born with male genitals and see what % say OH! that's all right. The guys In the neighborhood I grew up with would not take kindly to being told after the fact.

I'm convinced it can happen. Bear in mind, though, that for a truly "stealth" woman - no one knows and there's no hint to her past - it may not ever make the news that that was why she died. If the only person who knew was her murderer when she confided in him, and he chooses NOT to reveal that as part of his trial (or is never caught/tried)... 

We're not supposed to post links, but you can Google for stories about Mayang Prasetyo (murdered by her husband, be warned that the story is extremely graphic), Victoria Carmen White (the man who was tried and acquitted for her murder on insufficient evidence was a guy she met in a bar and took home, and prosecution argued that the revelation of her gender identity [at 10 years post-op] was the reason for her murder), and a Russian post-op trans woman named Kamilla murdered when her boyfriend went through her things and found an old letter (which seems to match what you had in mind). I found that in the first couple pages of search returns, and if you'll excuse me, I'm too depressed to continue now.

Violent men will seize on any excuse to be violent, and violent trans/homophobic men who are afraid their equally bigoted friends will mock them might be even more easily provoked. Of course, dating men like that is probably a risky idea anyway, but sometimes a woman doesn't know until it's too late.

Quote from: Wynternight on July 26, 2015, 10:26:12 AM
Transwomen make up a tiny portion of the population, transwomen of colour even less. Proportionally more transwomen of colour are murdered yearly then cis women. So the ten murdered transwomen this year is statistically significant, particularly when you consider nine of them took place from 1 Jan through March. There were 12 murdered all last year, 10 this year with five months left in the year.

Lets try to work it out.

According to the CDC their were 16121 homicides in the USA in 2013.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

So for 12 trans murders last year (2014) the trans murder rate is 12/16121 = 0.074%.

I hear estimates of there of about 0.5% of the population being transgender, but even if it's only 0.1% its still larger than 0.074%. i.e. its safer being trans than not.

On the face of it that's ridiculous, and I suspect it just shows the 12 reported murders is low, plus all sorts of limitations in the model. I don't think it shows that there's a wave of trans murders though.

I think all women regardless of how we got here, are susceptible to male violence. I'm sure some men would snap and kill a partner if they discovered later that they're trans but the same kind of guy could snap over anything else, you know? If someone is prone to violence they'll find a reason to be violent.


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Quote from: Evolving Beauty on July 26, 2015, 12:22:09 AM
I'm just wondering if those same homophobics/transphobics if confronted post-ops would equally murder them?

From my experience, the risk is higher when a "100% straight" man feels his sexuality is "threatened".  So if you are pre/non-op, to a straight man, male genitalia is going to trigger their strong fears of becoming gay (or anything less than 100% straight).  A post-op shouldn't trigger that kind of response.

Quote from: januarysunshine on July 28, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
I think all women regardless of how we got here, are susceptible to male violence. I'm sure some men would snap and kill a partner if they discovered later that they're trans but the same kind of guy could snap over anything else, you know? If someone is prone to violence they'll find a reason to be violent.


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I reaaaaally agree with this. I believe what is needed are questions. Many many questions when dating a guy. See where is mind is. Give him scenarios .. ask ask ask questions! Don't be afraid to ask questions such as, has he ever though about murdering someone? Under what circumstances would he murder someone? Would u still want me if I was a pig.. seriously.. ask questions!!! Any woman has the chance of being killed. I've seem many cases where the women who were killed this year we're sex workers. That's dangerous as it is for anyone. Health wise and physical. I just believe you need to ask, questions.

As for this saying.. once Trans will always be trans. So basically I'll always be a man, at least that's how the typical Cid would view it.. Doesn't make sense. Trans means to cross over. I've done that. Post srs is over. Now I'm a woman with trans history!  It's how you say things. You shouldn't tell a man..I was born a man. No! You would ay along the lines.. I was conflicted because I was battling with two gender identities .

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 26, 2015, 12:56:26 PM
I'm convinced it can happen. Bear in mind, though, that for a truly "stealth" woman - no one knows and there's no hint to her past - it may not ever make the news that that was why she died. If the only person who knew was her murderer when she confided in him, and he chooses NOT to reveal that as part of his trial (or is never caught/tried)... 

We're not supposed to post links, but you can Google for stories about Mayang Prasetyo (murdered by her husband, be warned that the story is extremely graphic), Victoria Carmen White (the man who was tried and acquitted for her murder on insufficient evidence was a guy she met in a bar and took home, and prosecution argued that the revelation of her gender identity [at 10 years post-op] was the reason for her murder), and a Russian post-op trans woman named Kamilla murdered when her boyfriend went through her things and found an old letter (which seems to match what you had in mind). I found that in the first couple pages of search returns, and if you'll excuse me, I'm too depressed to continue now.

Violent men will seize on any excuse to be violent, and violent trans/homophobic men who are afraid their equally bigoted friends will mock them might be even more easily provoked. Of course, dating men like that is probably a risky idea anyway, but sometimes a woman doesn't know until it's too late.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the murder had nothing to do with Mayang being a trans woman.

Grace : It's hard to say, considering that Mayang's husband killed himself afterward. It's *possible* that was one motive; it's equally possible that it wasn't, particularly given that he was not entirely sane.