Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello again,
    I have been on HRT since November answer currently,  my testosterone levels have only come down to 230 despite being on a fairly high dose of spiro. At my last visit, the doctor mentioned possibly supplementing the spiro with finasteride. When I asked what it did, she talked about its effects on male pattern baldness, but didn't really say anything about how effective it was as an anti androgen.  Since I don't have any issues with hair loss and it doesn't run in my family, we decided to hold off for now and wait to see if my testosterone levels continue to drop on my current dosage, while also looking into the possibility of orchiectomy.
     My question is whether or not anyone here has any experience with taking both spiro and finasteride at the same time for similar reasons. I have heard of girls on here taking them at the same time before, but usually the finasteride wasn't being taken as an anti androgen as much as trying to halt or reverse hairloss. I see the doctor again in 2 months and would like to have enough information to make a good decision at that time.

How do you take estro ? Orally/sublingual ?

A bit higher dose might be possible, it might help to drive down t.
There is a form of hrt with implants and injections where only estro is used, well in the female range, without anti androgens.

You might think about bioidentical progesterone, it might help with mood, breast development, and have some anti androgen effects.


hugs

I've been on spiro for years now, and added fin this April.  My peaks are filling in already.  I asked my Dr. for it.  It only looked like a man shaped "M" hairline when I pulled my hair back in a headband or ponytail, and now it is becoming less apparent.  My T levels were non-existent when I was just on spiro (Testosterone Total
< 0.40 ng/mL March 2015), so that was not a desired effect from the fin.

I am not a doctor.

Finasteride is a weak anti-androgen. However, when combined with spiro it may help increase the anti-androgen effect. It is best to call your doctor and ask your questions. Reason being it may get your T levels lower sooner.

I take dutasteride and Spiro and they have, in tandem, demolished my testosterone and DHT. dutasteride is three times more potent than finasteride in inhibiting the type II enzyme and 100 times more potent than finasteride in inhibiting the type I form of the DHT-producing enzyme.

I had some hair loss following my very rapid weight loss and the dutasteride has worked wonders. Not only is my hair coming back but it's coming back as platinum blonde.

Quote from: NatalieInProgress on July 27, 2015, 12:38:27 PM
My question is whether or not anyone here has any experience with taking both spiro and finasteride at the same time for similar reasons.

I took them both for the first 6 months of my HRT.  But actually, finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT, so your T levels can actually come back higher on it if I remember right.  Blocking DHT has a really good effect on hair though.

Basically Spiro wasn't very good at getting my T levels down either, so we switched to Prostap (a GnRH-agonist) which had a much better effect on my development (and fewer side effects).

Finasteride is recommended as one of the three main drugs, with estradiol and spironolactone on another site's trans regime. All I can say is that when I was on all three the effect was massive: everything including huge buds forming behind my nipples in a matter of a few weeks. A friend who knew nothing about what I was doing turned to me at a market and said 'oh my god you've got breasts.'

So ... it's difficult from that to deduce that F was having little effect :)

For health reasons I've had some time on just Finasteride and I still get tingling nipples. Maybe it varies from individual to individual as to how receptive you are to different forms of MtF medication?

Quote from: NatalieInProgress on July 27, 2015, 12:38:27 PM
Hello again,
    I have been on HRT since November answer currently,  my testosterone levels have only come down to 230 despite being on a fairly high dose of spiro. At my last visit, the doctor mentioned possibly supplementing the spiro with finasteride. When I asked what it did, she talked about its effects on male pattern baldness, but didn't really say anything about how effective it was as an anti androgen.  Since I don't have any issues with hair loss and it doesn't run in my family, we decided to hold off for now and wait to see if my testosterone levels continue to drop on my current dosage, while also looking into the possibility of orchiectomy.
     My question is whether or not anyone here has any experience with taking both spiro and finasteride at the same time for similar reasons. I have heard of girls on here taking them at the same time before, but usually the finasteride wasn't being taken as an anti androgen as much as trying to halt or reverse hairloss. I see the doctor again in 2 months and would like to have enough information to make a good decision at that time.

I was recently put on spiro in addition to finasteride. Prior to that I was on E and F, if you will, for about six months. My results were fairly disappointing. I asked my doctor to put me on Spiro and Progesterone on top of the others, and currently I'm on all 4. The results are getting a little better but I'm still not loving it. I wish I could get an orchiectomy but I have read that it complicates SRS which results in a more limited pool of surgeons who will charge you more for it. Not only that but the orchiectomy is expensive too. I don't know what to do other than asking for progressively higher dosages :/

I'm in Estrodiol patch and Fin and Spiro orally. So far over a year and great results.


Hugs

Kay

Quote from: Jean24 on August 14, 2015, 07:36:40 PM
I was recently put on spiro in addition to finasteride. Prior to that I was on E and F, if you will, for about six months. My results were fairly disappointing. I asked my doctor to put me on Spiro and Progesterone on top of the others, and currently I'm on all 4. The results are getting a little better but I'm still not loving it. I wish I could get an orchiectomy but I have read that it complicates SRS which results in a more limited pool of surgeons who will charge you more for it. Not only that but the orchiectomy is expensive too. I don't know what to do other than asking for progressively higher dosages :/

You could try injections or implants for e intake.
And a higher dose of e.
Many studies concerning e refer to non bioidentical forms, and non internal intake.
Many endos consider internal intake safer.

Some surgeons use part of a payment for an orchi towards an srs. So srs might be lower then.
But you should aks for effects concerning an orchi, and how long it might be preferable until srs.

Quote from: Laura_7 on August 17, 2015, 04:21:43 AM
You could try injections or implants for e intake.
And a higher dose of e.
Many studies concerning e refer to non bioidentical forms, and non internal intake.
Many endos consider internal intake safer.

Some surgeons use part of a payment for an orchi towards an srs. So srs might be lower then.
But you should aks for effects concerning an orchi, and how long it might be preferable until srs.

I might have to check those out... I'm so frustrated.

Quote from: Jean24 on August 17, 2015, 11:27:32 PM
I might have to check those out... I'm so frustrated.

Here was some info concerning an orchi. You might ask concerning a srs afterwards :
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193238.msg1722909.html#msg1722909

And you might use internal applications, like implants or injections.

Here should be sufficient info for your endo concerning implants, or you might look for another:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192044.msg1713877.html#msg1713877

By the way there are also progesterone implants.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193313.msg1723623.html#msg1723623

hugs

Hi everyone,

I've had a week now back on low finasteride and all is good. I really do wonder if the previous batch were 'dirty.' I've learned a lot through all this and one is that if you're buying online it's worth paying for properly sourced meds. Some of the generic stuff doing the rounds is full of dodgy chemicals and other substances. Be very careful folks.

Anyway, all is good. I'm going to stay like this for a little longer then find myself an endo, get properly screened and come back on e ... hopefully! I'll really look at those implants.

Finasteride only? No effect at all? Well my breasts have definitely got larger in a week again and my nipples have grown. I may be very sensitive to it or something, or it may be because my T levels are low after the previous HRT.

love to all,

Richenda
x

I just found out that my doctor took me off the finasteride and we're going with estro, spiro, and progesterone. Are spiro and progesterone both blockers or is it just the spiro?

Hi Jean,

Spironolactone is a strong anti androgen. Progesterone I am told is a weak anti androgen.

I am on intramuscular injections of Del Estrogen, spiro, progesterone and finasteride. When I first started I was on e pills. The difference between the e pills and IM, as far as T, my T went from 25-35 down to less than 20 ng/dl (test goes to 20).

When I first started my T was low and dropped to 25-35 in 3 months.

Quote from: Jean24 on August 22, 2015, 11:04:18 PM
I just found out that my doctor took me off the finasteride and we're going with estro, spiro, and progesterone. Are spiro and progesterone both blockers or is it just the spiro?

Bioidentical progesterone is also an anti androgen. (75% vs. 86%)

Hair Growth/Hair Loss
Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar) was found to be a major inhibitor of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) formation. Even 1 nM finasteride inhibited DHT synthesis in dermal papillae by 86% and 1 nM progesterone by 75%. Estrogens were less able to inhibit the synthesis of DHT in dermal papillae ( e.g. 100 nM 17alpha-E: 20%; 100 nM 17beta-E: 60%). Measurements were made on cultures done from scalp biopsies with high-performance liquid chromatography analysis, which is why test levels are reported in "nanometers." [ As reported in the European Journal of Dermatology. Vol. 11, Issue 3, May - June 2001: 195-8,

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on August 23, 2015, 02:04:57 PM
Hi Jean,

Spironolactone is a strong anti androgen. Progesterone I am told is a weak anti androgen.

I am on intramuscular injections of Del Estrogen, spiro, progesterone and finasteride. When I first started I was on e pills. The difference between the e pills and IM, as far as T, my T went from 25-35 down to less than 20 ng/dl (test goes to 20).

When I first started my T was low and dropped to 25-35 in 3 months.

Thanks Cynthia, but I'm sorry if I don't completely understand what you wrote. Are you saying that you noticed a bigger difference with injections? I was thinking about a switch to injections a while ago. Is it just like going for a shot or do you need tons of lab work before and after each one? Also, (approx) how often do you need injections when you're on those instead of pills? Thanks! :)

Quote from: Laura_7 on August 23, 2015, 02:08:51 PM
Bioidentical progesterone is also an anti androgen. (75% vs. 86%)

Hair Growth/Hair Loss
Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar) was found to be a major inhibitor of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) formation. Even 1 nM finasteride inhibited DHT synthesis in dermal papillae by 86% and 1 nM progesterone by 75%. Estrogens were less able to inhibit the synthesis of DHT in dermal papillae ( e.g. 100 nM 17alpha-E: 20%; 100 nM 17beta-E: 60%). Measurements were made on cultures done from scalp biopsies with high-performance liquid chromatography analysis, which is why test levels are reported in "nanometers." [ As reported in the European Journal of Dermatology. Vol. 11, Issue 3, May - June 2001: 195-8,

So they're similarly effective in blocking DHT? That's interesting. DHT is responsible for just baldness though, right (not the bulk of the testosterone being formed in the testes)?

Quote from: Jean24 on August 23, 2015, 02:09:47 PM
Thanks Cynthia, but I'm sorry if I don't completely understand what you wrote. Are you saying that you noticed a bigger difference with injections? I was thinking about a switch to injections a while ago. Is it just like going for a shot or do you need tons of lab work before and after each one? Also, (approx) how often do you need injections when you're on those instead of pills? Thanks! :)

There are two forms of injections, either weekly (estradiol valerate) or biweekly.
With weekly there is less of a seesaw effect. With biweekly there might be a low the last few days, which might affect mood.

Well concerning lab quite a few endos also ask how people feel...
and it depends on the endo and their experience...

Quote from: Jean24 on August 23, 2015, 02:12:12 PM
So they're similarly effective in blocking DHT? That's interesting. DHT is responsible for just baldness though, right (not the bulk of the testosterone being formed in the testes)?

DHT is a strong form of testo.
It also might prevent feminization.