Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have become more aware of the difficulties faced by our transgendered youths. My godson is a psychiatrist specializing in TG youths on the West Coast, and the heartbreaking stories of bullying, drug abuse, and isolation are prevalent. I was telling that this is not the case everywhere and related a story in Thailand.

I was shopping at a Mall and there was this Thai woman in line to pay for her purchases and being my usual gregarious self I struck a conversation. She had bought some girl clothing for a 3 year old and then plainly stated that her child was a Kathoey (Thai for TGs). She explained that in Thailand there are so many Kathoeys that families can identify them at an early age. She said, in a very casual and laughing manner that she has known this since she was two year old. It was a not a taboo subject and they are openly accepted in Thai Buddhist society. This casual inference and acceptance is what all societies should strive to achieve. Acceptance cannot be changed by Laws but in the spirit and soul of its people.

From what I have observed, it is likely that a child will self identify as the opposite gender. The age can vary significantly. It is then that the parents will react.  As you indicated, the parents' reaction will depend on how their culture treats this condition.

There is another factor and that is the education level of the population. I showed signs when I was very young and my cross dressing was discovered once. Even when I came out at 23, my parents didn't have a clue. Granted this was 1974 but in some ways, the knowledge level in parts of the population isn't much better. On another web site I was called a child abuser for discussing blockers. Some children on this web site are in fear of coming out because they know of their parents religious beliefs. I even worked with one who was banded from using the internet until the parents understood enough to give the child the proper treatment she required.

The real problem is that we are so few. The numbers I heard are 1 in 600 and the number seeking treatment would be even fewer. It is possible for a person to go through life and never meet one of us. That's why the real solution is education of the population.

In my experience and from accounts that I read, people tend to know something is different at ages 5-6. That's not to say that you know what trans anything is because young children can't really put something like that into words. Not only that, but there is NO information available to children that young and people who are in favor of having it provided are accused of being perverts and in favor of sexualizing children. The reason that it is usually that age is because kindergarten aged children are starting to understand that gender is "permanent" and not something that usually changes.

There are reports of children declaring they are a gender that differs from sex assigned at birth as young as 3 years old.

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 11, 2015, 04:54:33 AM
There are reports of children declaring they are a gender that differs from sex assigned at birth as young as 3 years old.

That sounds about right. I was correcting people at about that age and was pretty self-assured about my gender by age 5. I think there were signs before that but my parents were too uninformed to notice.

My parents did not pick what was going on with me until I came out last year. They say that I was always 'a bit different', but nobody including me understood it.

So I think its important that a child has the tools to express what is going on, and can be heard.

This means trans awareness and exposure is a good thing. When it gets out there that being trans happens, and that we are not really so different, things will be easier to achieve.

I almost didn't understand I was different gender wise up until puberty at age 10. I knew I was somehow different though at 5. Of course I was bullied and received remarks because I was very effeminate. It wasn't until I was about 17 that I discovered that transitioning was actually a thing, because all I knew off were the terms 'transvestite' and 'crossdresser'.

I didn't correct people who called me boy, maybe it didn't happen often and maybe it didn't have any meaning to me then. I was me regardless of what people referred to me as. Gradually as I became older it felt wrong and very awkward when people referred to me as male. I lived as an androgynous person for most of my teenage years and decided it wasn't enough after much speculation whether that was how I truly felt, or if society just wanted me to fit a certain box.


Anyhow, my point is that mtf transgender children may not actually claim to be female if that term has no meaning to them. They will definitely show their femininity though, and that they basically behave as girls. It might be harder to 'see the signs' of a tom boy since they would presumably mostly feel good playing with groups of boys e.g., but this is just my personal experience  :)

I knew something was different about me when I was around 4. With my kids they only really started talking about gender differences when they turned 4. So I would say around that age.

Quote from: iKate on August 11, 2015, 07:53:49 AM
I knew something was different about me when I was around 4. Witt my kids they only really started talking about gender differences when they turned 4. So I would say around that age.

Yes I agree - my first and partial childhood transition began somewhere between 4 and 5. That was the age that I started to tell anyone who would listen that I was a "girl in disguise".

I think the current work being done by the neurologists with FMRI scans is also interesting because it may eventually provide brain activation pattern evidence of development of gender identity.

However the golden prize would be better validation of early candidate genetic markers (and yes there are some, and yes they have been indetified, and no it isnt junk science. Sadly there are a whole raft of gender counselors who dont want to be put out of a job, and whole load of religious folks who dont want it to be proved that this isnt a lifestyle choice. So the work that is being done has a few philosophical battles to win before it reaches wide acceptance.)

Of course if the gene work did finally pay off then the answer would be that one could identify a child with the potential to become trans from birth, or indeed before, and as long as nobody starts to try to use that as an excuse to wipe us from the gene pool then I'm good with that idea.

4 was when my gender felt the need to express and pull and push me in the proper direction  the rest of my life, then the absolute confirming moment when  I received the oh so needed estrogen.

My parents knew , but the times were so backwards.

Quote from: warlockmaker on August 10, 2015, 11:08:33 PM
I have become more aware of the difficulties faced by our transgendered youths. My godson is a psychiatrist specializing in TG youths on the West Coast, and the heartbreaking stories of bullying, drug abuse, and isolation are prevalent. I was telling that this is not the case everywhere and related a story in Thailand.

I was shopping at a Mall and there was this Thai woman in line to pay for her purchases and being my usual gregarious self I struck a conversation. She had bought some girl clothing for a 3 year old and then plainly stated that her child was a Kathoey (Thai for TGs). She explained that in Thailand there are so many Kathoeys that families can identify them at an early age. She said, in a very casual and laughing manner that she has known this since she was two year old. It was a not a taboo subject and they are openly accepted in Thai Buddhist society. This casual inference and acceptance is what all societies should strive to achieve. Acceptance cannot be changed by Laws but in the spirit and soul of its people.

The Buddhism view on trans is more like, we done some bad Karma in the past life and it's more like karma punishment that make us trans. So most Thai Buddhist are more like sympathy on trans. That's why Thai society have no violence or resistance on trans. But still you don't get a good job or have the same right as other in Thailand as well. Anyway, as I travel to several places, I think Thailand is still one of best place for trans to live.

Quote from: Naeree on August 11, 2015, 01:39:27 PM
The Buddhism view on trans is more like, we done some bad Karma in the past life and it's more like karma punishment that make us trans. So most Thai Buddhist are more like sympathy on trans. That's why Thai society have no violence or resistance on trans. But still you don't get a good job or have the same right as other in Thailand as well. Anyway, as I travel to several places, I think Thailand is still one of best place for trans to live.

That's quite interesting. I may believe in reincarnation and I believe I was female in past lives. I joke that I did something terrible, maybe I messed with black magic, and I have to live with the consequences in this life  :P

There is a big societal component to it.  I was aware I was female at 4 years of age, but I was also aware that people would not believe me if I said it.  As a result I did not tell anyone, and even if someone had asked, I probably would have denied it.  I think it's not that surprising to see more early identification in societies that are open to it.  Even in North America there is a large difference in awareness now, than when I was young, and that's why I think we are seeing more transgender children now.

Quote from: jessical on August 11, 2015, 02:59:19 PM
I was also aware that people would not believe me if I said it.

Some of us just didnt care!  ;D And what is probably worse some of us, even at age four, were naive enough to think that we could force them to believe us, because all it would take was to say "oh yes I am" one more time than they said "you are not." Oddly this eventually proved to be correct. :P

Quote from: RoseH on August 11, 2015, 02:38:06 PM
That's quite interesting. I may believe in reincarnation and I believe I was female in past lives. I joke that I did something terrible, ... and I have to live with the consequences in this life  :P

Well it can be seen a bit more unemotional...
believing in the concept of a soul a soul kind of has a plan... and maybe part of this plan is to kind of value femininity... or masculinity if ftm...

there can be a few facets of this... the buddhists have not only the concept of karma but also dharma... the way to go...

I share your experience from your second sentence by the way...


hugs

Quote from: Rejennyrated on August 11, 2015, 03:54:16 PM
Some of us just didnt care!  ;D And what is probably worse some of us, even at age four, were naive enough to think that we could force them to believe us, because all it would take was to say "oh yes I am" one more time than they said "you are not." Oddly this eventually proved to be correct. :P

Well its a good quality to know ones feelings, and to being able to voice them.

Well some maybe felt overwhelmed... so back to the previous sentence might be a good idea  :)

Several years ago during the battle for transgender rights in Maryland, I was fortunate to have been there during the Senate committee hearings when a woman from PFLAG gave her testimony about her daughter and the problems they had with her from about age 3-4 I believe. They didn't know anything about GD then, nor did any of the many learned men of letters that "treated" their daughter. The right person finally came along and now all is happy in the world and she is now a major advocate for the TG community in general and trans youth in particular.

Many of us have since the age of 4-5 knew something was wrong. About this same age is when a child first gets a sense of self. So it all sort of makes sense that even at that young of an age you can be identified as trans. For others, it may not be clear, or discovered, or acknowledged, until much later in life.

I hope there are no issues but I would like to copy many of your answers - without names - for my godson's research into this matter. I will check with Cindy and Susan just to make sure before I do it.

Identifying TG at a young age seems to require a non discriminatory population and a culture that can communicate openly with their peers for an understanding of this subject. Education - either formal or by interactions with the community also allows early identification.

I do not believe that any country has advanced to such a level but the Thai culture seems the closest. And maybe there are some discrimination in Thailand relating to jobs, though I have not seen this as I know of TG Thai lawyers and business managers. The biggest discrimination is that Kathoeys carry a special ID card and actually cannot have their gender changed legally.

I think many parents ignore or outwardly quell the notion or signs of the young transgendered, not all, and certainly less so today than when I was a kid.

I knew I was really female around 4, noticed the anatomical differences at 5 sharing a bath with my cousin...

I asked a Dr when I was 5, with my mother or grandmother there... "Can I be a girl" was shutdown as he turned, looked past me and said "many young boys want to be girls, but they all grow out of it!" Hmmmmmm  ::)

I can pick these things very quickly, as I have lived them and they affect me, however many parents cannot and do not because they are not transgendered in any way.... or have been brought up no acceptance of such issues!

It certainly is dependent on society, understanding, and, I also think, care and acceptance of the child's well being above all else... Unfortunately, still today, "face" comes into it a lot... and I love and admire those that put all of that aside and provide the love, support and care to their offspring.

Katy xx

BTW - My wife found some show on Netflix I believe called "Taboo". The did an episode on trans and gender. THere are places besides Thailand that accept trans folks. Another where they are openly accepted, even encouraged, was I think Samoa or thereabouts. There kids are picked or show themselves as trans at a very young age, both male and female.

Quote from: JoanneB on August 12, 2015, 06:04:29 PM
BTW - My wife found some show on Netflix I believe called "Taboo". The did an episode on trans and gender. THere are places besides Thailand that accept trans folks. Another where they are openly accepted, even encouraged, was I think Samoa or thereabouts. There kids are picked or show themselves as trans at a very young age, both male and female.

Yes.
Some indigenous people pick them at a young age and some of them are given roles as go-betweens because its believed they have an understanding of both genders.


hugs

ok, so I am real late bloomer. I only realized that I was female at the age of 19...

but as a small child, i was kinda jealous of the girls, they got to wear pretty dresses and I did wonder what it was like to wear a dress. As teenager these feelings grew and was jealous of the girls, they were getting breasts and curves. I started experimenting by wearing pantyhose and panties and wrapping towels around my waist to create a "dress".

It was at the age of 19, did i begin to explore these feelings.

Thanks for the topic.

So I'm on the spot. I began identifying in kindergarten. That was quickly answered by bullying by girls, for prying in 'their stuff', and by boys, so I man up or else. It was kind of bullying I ended up with a broken arm and being drowned. Of course I kept my mouth shut through elementary school, high school, and even after I left parents' home.

But the thing is, I myself didn't know there was name for my condition until I was 28. And I didn't know about HRT until I was 29. I'm 32 now and living it as full as I can. Once full time is possible (work), I will be glad to begin hrt.

The bottom line is, I began identifying in kidergarten (about age 6) and I was at age 8 when I first time borrowed my mom's dress.

*

I know that I was at least as young as age 3.  I have memories of a children's TV show when they were teaching dates and calendars; those earliest dates were during 1959.

My sister is two years older.  I had regular access to my sister's attire since earliest childhood; we wore the same size until I was age 21.  I wore her clothes against my father's wishes. 

I was insistent to my family all during my life; I made frequent arguments and outbursts, 'I AM a girl!' ('feminine protesting' was the label).  I could not articulate my identity using adult terms during my youngest years.

School allowed me to use either the girl's room or boy's room through 1st Grade.

Maybe all those adults expected I would grow out of it - whatever they thought 'it' was.  Nope.

My perspective is that the true child, not the experimenter child, knows and persists throughout their life growing up.  The parents must become concerned and must take an interest in their child.  The medical community must help; if medical opportunities had been available during my era as they are nowadays, then I surely would have demanded them - without regrets.

*

It was 46 for me!  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

This is fascinating to read and so important to understand how critical cultural acceptance is to living a "normal" life whatever our gender identity is.

I have almost no recall of early childhood but my old sister saw me as her sister at age 3 and my older brother tried to get me not to play with her as Tessa or I really would become a girl.  While that was apparently a dreadful consequence to him I thought it was just great and was hugely disappointed in how wrong he was.

Like so many growing up in the 50s or 60s, life did not include any useful information about human sexuality or gender identity.  There were no words, just the secret conviction that I would magically become a girl and mom.

Even in the early 80s when i saw psych people about knowing I was not a man they concluded that I must just be a very gay bottom in denial.  Still only half right :D

What a different life we may have had if we had known that acceptance and integration of diversity the Thai people and others experience?  This is one reason I will continue to be an out activist and encourage the broader culture around us to acknowledge our reality and value our experience.  How fun to imagine that better world....

My dad recognized I was different at age 3 and knew I would have problems when I got older so he tried to make me strong too endure. In the late 70s they had some documaries on gender and transexualism and we would watch them. I kept my gender disphoria to myself also because I liked girls and that would have confused them more, besides after 45 yrs I've gotten used too being different. I know I'm a woman I even look like one when fully shaved and not pretending to be male. A lot of us grew up in a time that being trans was the worst thing a person could go through,being homosexual or lesbian was becoming more accepted but not trans for we were looked upon as scum. I faced bullies head on and learned too live a gender neutral life.